6 minutes ago, nauseus said:

They have as far as Trump's alleged collusion with Russia is concerned. Now it seems more likely that if there were any shenanigans going on in 2016 then it was Hillary who was particularly active. We shall see.

 

https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/aba-news-archives/2019/03/mueller-concludes-investigation/

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-20/clinton-approved-trump-russia-leak-her-campaign-manager-says

no direct collusion doesn't mean the Ruzzians didn't try to influence the elections in Trump's favor.

Putin wanted Trump because of his divisive politics from which the Ruzzians would have benefited.

Edited May 26, 20224 yr by tgw

56 minutes ago, nauseus said:

They have as far as Trump's alleged collusion with Russia is concerned. Now it seems more likely that if there were any shenanigans going on in 2016 then it was Hillary who was particularly active. We shall see.

 

https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/aba-news-archives/2019/03/mueller-concludes-investigation/

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-20/clinton-approved-trump-russia-leak-her-campaign-manager-says

 

 

As concerns Trump, not proven is not the same as "disproved". As Mueller himself declared, Trump was not "exonerated".

Edited May 26, 20224 yr by candide

1 hour ago, tgw said:

no direct collusion doesn't mean the Ruzzians didn't try to influence the elections in Trump's favor.

Putin wanted Trump because of his divisive politics from which the Ruzzians would have benefited.

It doesn't mean they did, either. Maybe they just like interfering?

 

But the important thing is that Trump did not collude or seek favour from Russia in 2016. He won but how did that benefit Russia? Really? 

 

If you want to refer to divisive politics then better take look at Biden, who, after touting "unity" in his inaugural address, now sees the USA more divided than ever and after a series of disasters, like Afghanistan and the Southern border, has earned a 56% rating of disapproval (and this has been one of hid better weeks).

 

https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/biden_administration/biden_approval_index_history

50 minutes ago, candide said:

As concerns Trump, not proven is not the same as "disproved". As Mueller himself declared, Trump was not "exonerated".

On the question of obstruction only - not collusion.

15 minutes ago, nauseus said:

On the question of obstruction only - not collusion.

Right. But he also did not "disprove".He just mentioned that there was not sufficient evidence to charge anyone with taking part in a criminal conspiracy. It's not the same as disproved.

43 minutes ago, nauseus said:

It doesn't mean they did, either. Maybe they just like interfering?

 

But the important thing is that Trump did not collude or seek favour from Russia in 2016. He won but how did that benefit Russia? Really? 

 

If you want to refer to divisive politics then better take look at Biden, who, after touting "unity" in his inaugural address, now sees the USA more divided than ever and after a series of disasters, like Afghanistan and the Southern border, has earned a 56% rating of disapproval (and this has been one of hid better weeks).

 

https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/biden_administration/biden_approval_index_history

Ruzzia has had its propagandist fingers in almost every topic that divided the West in the last decade and longer.

They financed extremist political parties, they supported conspiracy theories, mask and vaccine deniers, etc.

The more unstable the West, the easier for other countries like Ruzzia but also including China to push their agenda.

32 minutes ago, tgw said:

Ruzzia has had its propagandist fingers in almost every topic that divided the West in the last decade and longer.

They financed extremist political parties, they supported conspiracy theories, mask and vaccine deniers, etc.

The more unstable the West, the easier for other countries like Ruzzia but also including China to push their agenda.

Yes exactly.

That's how they roll.

1 hour ago, tgw said:

Ruzzia has had its propagandist fingers in almost every topic that divided the West in the last decade and longer.

They financed extremist political parties, they supported conspiracy theories, mask and vaccine deniers, etc.

The more unstable the West, the easier for other countries like Ruzzia but also including China to push their agenda..

Well, although you don't prove it, I'm sure that is probably true. However, I'm also sure that the Russians are far from being the only ones guilty of this kind of thing, be it from outside or inside the "west".

16 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Well, although you don't prove it, I'm sure that is probably true. However, I'm also sure that the Russians are far from being the only ones guilty of this kind of thing, be it from outside or inside the "west".

my bad...

https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-china-covid-disinformation-campaigns/31590996.html

https://edmo.eu/2022/03/30/how-covid-19-conspiracy-theorists-pivoted-to-pro-russian-hoaxes/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_in_Russia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firehose_of_falsehood

 

just an example:

"In 2019, according to the science writer William J. Broad of The New York Times, Russia, working through its state propaganda network RT America, began a "firehose of falsehood" campaign to convince Americans that 5G phones were a health hazard, even as Putin was ordering the launch of 5G networks in Russia.^"

 

everyone can easily imagine how they meddle in more serious societal topics.

 

in short, they poisoned the brains of many people (2 friends of mine are affected) and sowed distrust of people in their government.

Edited May 26, 20224 yr by tgw

13 hours ago, tgw said:

Ruzzia has had its propagandist fingers in almost every topic that divided the West in the last decade and longer.

They financed extremist political parties, they supported conspiracy theories, mask and vaccine deniers, etc.

The more unstable the West, the easier for other countries like Ruzzia but also including China to push their agenda.

As it does the opposite side...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/14/secret-british-black-propaganda-campaign-targeted-cold-war-enemies-information-research-department

 

 

And while the Russians annex Ukraine, the Chinese start to grab the Pacific. Think of a Pacific, joining SE Asia and Russian acquired European territories, all practicing with a security/surveillance system just like China's.

Quote

China wants 10 small Pacific nations to endorse a sweeping agreement covering everything from security to fisheries in what one leader warns is a “game-changing” bid by Beijing to wrest control of the region. https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/26/china-wants-10-pacific-nations-to-endorse-sweeping-agreement.html

 

Edited May 27, 20224 yr by John Drake

17 hours ago, tgw said:

my bad...

https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-china-covid-disinformation-campaigns/31590996.html

https://edmo.eu/2022/03/30/how-covid-19-conspiracy-theorists-pivoted-to-pro-russian-hoaxes/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_in_Russia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firehose_of_falsehood

 

just an example:

"In 2019, according to the science writer William J. Broad of The New York Times, Russia, working through its state propaganda network RT America, began a "firehose of falsehood" campaign to convince Americans that 5G phones were a health hazard, even as Putin was ordering the launch of 5G networks in Russia.^"

 

everyone can easily imagine how they meddle in more serious societal topics.

 

in short, they poisoned the brains of many people (2 friends of mine are affected) and sowed distrust of people in their government.

None of your links cover the issue. Covid, 5G and wiki generalizations are nothing to do with Trump.

19 hours ago, nauseus said:

Well, although you don't prove it, I'm sure that is probably true. However, I'm also sure that the Russians are far from being the only ones guilty of this kind of thing, be it from outside or inside the "west".

Just compare VOA to RT.

Edited May 27, 20224 yr by placeholder

43 minutes ago, nauseus said:

None of your links cover the issue. Covid, 5G and wiki generalizations are nothing to do with Trump.

Trump is off topic in this thread.

On-topic is how Ruzzia used covert propaganda operations to push its agenda and poison the minds of many of our people.

But here is a specific link for you:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2016_United_States_elections

there are many other articles, but they are behind paywalls.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/new-study-shows-russian-propaganda-may-really-have-helped-trump-n1025306
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/19/opinion/trump-russia-2016-report.html

 

Edited May 27, 20224 yr by tgw

6 hours ago, gearbox said:

As it does the opposite side...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/14/secret-british-black-propaganda-campaign-targeted-cold-war-enemies-information-research-department

1- I wasn't pretending Western powers don't use propaganda, but in this situation regarding Putin and Ruzzia's actions in the last 15 years or so, there is a good side and a bad side.
People underestimate the impact of the Kremlin's vile disinformation and influence campaigns.
They destabilize Western societies and transform a number of our people into useful idiots (useful for Ruzzia, that is).

 

2- not sure how your link covering British propaganda during the cold war some 50 years ago is relevant today.

Edited May 27, 20224 yr by tgw

31 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Just compare VOA to RT.

Irrelevant.

38 minutes ago, tgw said:

Trump is off topic in this thread.

On-topic is how Ruzzia used covert propaganda operations to push its agenda and poison the minds of many of our people.

But here is a specific link for you:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2016_United_States_elections

there are many other articles, but they are behind paywalls.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/new-study-shows-russian-propaganda-may-really-have-helped-trump-n1025306
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/19/opinion/trump-russia-2016-report.html

 

It was Jingthing who brought his name into it and you also used it.

Edited May 27, 20224 yr by nauseus
correction

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Irrelevant.

Nonsense. When the Trump administration tried to turn the VOA into a propaganda vehicle, the staff fought back in the courts. And ultimately won. Can you imagine the staff of RT being able to defy the wishes of Vladimir Putin? To actually defeat him?

5 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Nonsense. When the Trump administration tried to turn the VOA into a propaganda vehicle, the staff fought back in the courts. And ultimately won. Can you imagine the staff of RT being able to defy the wishes of Vladimir Putin? To actually defeat him?

So it's OK to bring Trump in when it suits you?? 

 

I really don't think RT is the most dangerous weapon in the Russian propaganda arsenal. Do you?

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

So it's OK to bring Trump in when it suits you?? 

 

I really don't think RT is the most dangerous weapon in the Russian propaganda arsenal. Do you?

It's not a matter of when it suits me. When the mention of the Trump adminstration is relevant, as it clearly is in this case, it is ok. You're the one who equated the US practices with those of Russia. Clearly not the case. The VOA reporting angered people in the Trump adminstration. They tried to undermine it. They failed. That is a hugely different from the situation in Russia vis a vis news media.

29 minutes ago, nauseus said:

It was Jingthing who brought his name into it and you also used it.

Not to discuss specifics, but only as an example of what Ruzzian propaganda produces, one of the products being people being misled into supporting the candidate favoured by a hostile, fascist foreign dictator, among other things.
This is on topic because that's exactly what Soros has been fighting against and one of the reasons why he sometimes intervened.

Troll posts and replies removed.  Keep it on topic and civil.  

 

I came into this thread late so had to read it all at once.  The whataboutery displayed by the russian shills and/ or those on the political right is quite shocking if you have to stomach it all in one go.