MacBook Pro with Intel chip still available?

[fusion58]

I was just browsing the the Apple TH site, and the only MacBook Pro models listed there were the new versions w/ the new Apple M2 chip. According to the site, these new notebooks won't be available for another month. Has anyone seen any of the Intel i5 or i7 versions still for sale around BKK anywhere? Seems like there should be some good deals to be had somewhere.

[proton]

Why not get an M1 Macbook? don't think they make intel ones any more

Edited June 7, 2022 by proton

[fusion58]

20 minutes ago, proton said:

Why not get an M1 Macbook? don't think they make intel ones any more

I've been out of the Apple loop for a while. I'm assuming the M1 version is still in stock at Apple Stores around TH, then?

[sometimewoodworker]

52 minutes ago, fusion58 said:

I've been out of the Apple loop for a while. I'm assuming the M1 version is still in stock at Apple Stores around TH, then?

Depends on the model, mostly no stock, a few have a few models.

If you want a low end model (it still runs rings around almost all windows ones) then best wait for the M2 MacBook Air.

 

[RedBackman]

On 6/8/2022 at 1:01 AM, sometimewoodworker said:

Depends on the model, mostly no stock, a few have a few models.

If you want a low end model (it still runs rings around almost all windows ones) then best wait for the M2 MacBook Air.

 

Runs rings around almost all windows ones? M1 was impressive when it came out but now i5-12500h is a pretty baseline processor and pretty much equivalent to the M1 in the same price range - usually with a little more value on the non-mac laptops actually as far a price/performance overall. If you like mac go with mac but let's not pretend it's stomping the competition except maybe power efficiency.

 

Wait for the M2 is good advice though, it's releasing this month. As for OP's initial question, Apple isn't integrating intel chips in macbooks anymore so you won't find new intel models anywhere, just older ones from 2020 or earlier.

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, RedBackman said:

Runs rings around almost all windows ones? M1 was impressive when it came out but now i5-12500h is a pretty baseline processor and pretty much equivalent to the M1 in the same price range - usually with a little more value on the non-mac laptops actually as far a price/performance overall. If you like mac go with mac but let's not pretend it's stomping the competition except maybe power efficiency.

 

Wait for the M2 is good advice though, it's releasing this month. As for OP's initial question, Apple isn't integrating intel chips in macbooks anymore so you won't find new intel models anywhere, just older ones from 2020 or earlier.

While it’s certainly possible maybe probable that high end windows laptops are approaching the Mac lineup some may exceed them, there are plenty, probably the majority that come nowhere close. Of course they are very much cheaper. However there are no cheap slow apple laptops at all. So the competition depends on how you define the market, for power efficiency using about ¼ of the power with virtually no fan noise seems difficult to compete with, but then you may have other criteria.

 

The thing that basically stops people switching is familiarity as for many it’s just too much work to learn a new system. 
 

The M2 models do not have a release date for Thailand, almost certainly not next month going by previous releases. You can order and get a U.K. delivery date of end of July ~ beginning of August. Thailand is not available to order yet.

[RedBackman]

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

While it’s certainly possible maybe probable that high end windows laptops are approaching the Mac lineup some may exceed them, there are plenty, probably the majority that come nowhere close. Of course they are very much cheaper. However there are no cheap slow apple laptops at all. So the competition depends on how you define the market, for power efficiency using about ¼ of the power with virtually no fan noise seems difficult to compete with, but then you may have other criteria.

Again, not high-end. i5-12500h and up. That's low-middle end laptops. And those run in the same price range as macs except things like ram can be much cheaper on non-macs. And going up with price - support for discrete graphics is a major factor. Right now mac is behind the curve on price/performance. If you prioritize mainly battery life and overall heat output yeah, those would be better reasons to get a mac because its power efficiency is better, but it hasn't been running rings around comparably priced windows machines since 12th gen intel released. We'll have to see how things shape up with mac, intel and amd all releasing a new generation in the next 6 months.

 

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

The thing that basically stops people switching is familiarity as for many it’s just too much work to learn a new system. 

Yes. If you like mac go mac. Especially the air isn't bad value for a basic laptop. They used to be a lot worse value wise during their intel integration days.

 

Quote

The M2 models do not have a release date for Thailand, almost certainly not next month going by previous releases. You can order and get a U.K. delivery date of end of July ~ beginning of August. Thailand is not available to order yet.

Yes, I was talking about the global release. It may take a tad bit longer to trickle into Thailand but likely in a month or two. I think you can start preordering here in the next few days? The point remains the same, if you want a mac it's good advice to wait a short while and get a new m2 or take advantage of price dips on m1 models.

Edited June 16, 2022 by RedBackman

[FriendlyFarang]

20 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

The thing that basically stops people switching is familiarity as for many it’s just too much work to learn a new system. 

Or that certain software doesn't run on Mac, especially since they moved away from Intel CPUs.

Or the price Tag. If I wanted the performance, screen, memory etc. that my current Laptop has from a Macbook, I would have to pay 139k Baht. My Laptop costs 71k, that's basically half the cost.

 

I don't want you to get the impression that I think Macbooks are bad, or are generally overpriced, but they just don't make sense for everybody, it always depends on the user profile. There are definitely cases where a Macbook makes sense.

One "problem" with many Apple users is, that before they had a few years old Android phone which they once bought for 10k, now they buy a 30k Iphone, or they had an older Windows laptop that they bought for 20k, and now they buy a 60k Macbook, then they are suddenly like "Apple is so much better than [other manufacturer]".

 

[RedBackman]

8 hours ago, FriendlyFarang said:

Or that certain software doesn't run on Mac, especially since they moved away from Intel CPUs.

Or the price Tag. If I wanted the performance, screen, memory etc. that my current Laptop has from a Macbook, I would have to pay 139k Baht. My Laptop costs 71k, that's basically half the cost.

 

I don't want you to get the impression that I think Macbooks are bad, or are generally overpriced, but they just don't make sense for everybody, it always depends on the user profile. There are definitely cases where a Macbook makes sense.

One "problem" with many Apple users is, that before they had a few years old Android phone which they once bought for 10k, now they buy a 30k Iphone, or they had an older Windows laptop that they bought for 20k, and now they buy a 60k Macbook, then they are suddenly like "Apple is so much better than [other manufacturer]".

 

When the m1 first released it was legitimately impressive, especially with the air and the mini being really good value comparatively during COVID shortages. If you had a workflow in apple's powerhouse like video editing those were probably the best value around. So it's easy to see how people might be confused after talking heads praised it so much, but that was two years ago.

 

Now prices are coming down, graphics cards are becoming obtainable and intel and amd can both give slightly better performance in the same price range. The power efficiency of apple arm chips is still better but that's mainly a positive for battery life on laptops and I'm not sure how many people really need to be away from power outlets for long stretches. On the lower end systems you're not really going to notice much of a difference on the power bill and on higher end consumer systems you're paying for performance anyway so power consumption tends to be a second thought.

 

Anyone saying mac has better all-around hardware right now is either mistaken, selling you something or fanboying. I completely agree with you that it depends on the user. If you like mac, you're proficient with it, it meets all your needs, you're already invested in the ecosystem - it could be the best choice for you. Just don't buy it because you think it's "running rings" around the competition or anything.

[sometimewoodworker]

8 hours ago, RedBackman said:

Anyone saying mac has better all-around hardware right now is either mistaken, selling you something or fanboying.

A point that is missing from your analysis is the useful lifespan of apple products along with the great tech support.
 

With the phones a 2015 iPhone is still supported 

My 2017 Android phone stopped support 2 years ago

 

i have Wi-Fi end points from 2004, 2008, and 2011 that still do a good job, I haven’t tried the flying saucer one in 15 years but it probably still works as well as it did.

 

with computers my current desktop machines are from 2010 and 2015 each has it place and are still completely functional.
 

That doesn’t cover the iPods that still are in daily use
 

I am thinking of getting yet another as some software is only supported by current models and I could do with a faster Mac to run my virtual windows machine for the one piece of software that is windows only 

 

So on average the usable life span is double or greater than the competition. 
Yes I’ve had machines that had physical problems, they were all dealt with by apple tech support, one laptop was replaced with a new model 3 years after purchasing it, so the price you pay when buying is a poor way to judge.
 

Where else will you find a manufacturer that has a machine collected on a Tuesday afternoon, delivered back on Thursday morning with a replacement motherboard all at zero cost?

 

However despite all the above for the majority of windows users all the undoubted advantages of the Apple ecosystem do not outweigh or compensate for the difficulty of switching, so my advice is to stay with what you know and upgrade more often, it’s the same for Android phone users stay with Android and change your phone more often.

 

For myself I only got my first new smart phone 2 years ago to use CarPlay on our new car I had to buy virtually no software as the iPad programs just worked I had no learning curve. The Android phone I don’t count it was inherited from my brother and was only useful for a few weeks. Now it’s mostly a paperweight.

 

Apple has a ecosystem with most parts adding or multiplying its benefits. Take any one point and there is probably something as good or a little better, with the whole there’s nothing that can possibly compete 

Edited June 18, 2022 by sometimewoodworker

[Eloquent pilgrim]

I’ve been an Apple user for 12 years; I don’t get into justification arguments, nor do I diss Windows users, each to their own with their own requirements and their own cash.

 

I wouldn’t personally look for a deal on an older model; rather, I’d order a new MacBook Air with the M2 Chip, upgrade the RAM to 16GB, the storage to 1TB, which would give you an amazing machine. Not cheap @ 64,900 Baht, but will have good residual value even in 5 years time. Your shout of course, just my tuppence worth …. cheers

[RedBackman]

49 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

A point that is missing from your analysis is the useful lifespan of apple products along with the great tech support.
 

With the phones a 2015 iPhone is still supported 

My 2017 Android phone stopped support 2 years ago

 

i have Wi-Fi end points from 2004, 2008, and 2011 that still do a good job, I haven’t tried the flying saucer one in 15 years but it probably still works as well as it did.

 

with computers my current desktop machines are from 2010 and 2015 each has it place and are still completely functional.
 

That doesn’t cover the iPods that still are in daily use
 

I am thinking of getting yet another as some software is only supported by current models and I could do with a faster Mac to run my virtual windows machine for the one piece of software that is windows only 

 

So on average the usable life span is double or greater than the competition. 
Yes I’ve had machines that had physical problems, they were all dealt with by apple tech support, one laptop was replaced with a new model 3 years after purchasing it, so the price you pay when buying is a poor way to judge.
 

Where else will you find a manufacturer that has a machine collected on a Tuesday afternoon, delivered back on Thursday morning with a replacement motherboard all at zero cost?

 

However despite all the above for the majority of windows users all the undoubted advantages of the Apple ecosystem do not outweigh or compensate for the difficulty of switching, so my advice is to stay with what you know and upgrade more often, it’s the same for Android phone users stay with Android and change your phone more often.

 

For myself I only got my first new smart phone 2 years ago to use CarPlay on our new car I had to buy virtually no software as the iPad programs just worked I had no learning curve. The Android phone I don’t count it was inherited from my brother and was only useful for a few weeks. Now it’s mostly a paperweight.

 

Apple has a ecosystem with most parts adding or multiplying its benefits. Take any one point and there is probably something as good or a little better, with the whole there’s nothing that can possibly compete 

For iphone vs android support agreed, iphones usually are supported a little longer. If you can unlock your bootloader on android you can install stuff like lineageos and extend the life of android phones but it's atrocious some android manufacturers will pretty much drop support in a year or two despite the device having good enough specs to go longer. On the other hand I like the openness of android's ecosystem a lot more. I just wish manufacturers would be more open about their hardware so OS's could be a bit more detached from the manufacturer like they are in the laptop/desktop market. But +1 to iphones for offering longer support than their android counterparts. If you're not the type to be upgrading phones every couple years it's definitely a huge point to consider.

 

With laptops and home computers which was the real focus here, this isn't an issue because hardware is more open and OS's maintain support far past the effective lifetime of the product.

 

Your experience with apple's repair system is better than mine. If it's under warranty or something and they'll do the repair for free sure but a lot of time with proprietary parts not designed to be easily repaired by the user apple can actually be a lot worse that way.

 

As far as the undoubted advantages of their ecosystem, eh, I feel it's a tossup there too. Some of the tight integration is nice but some of the proprietary measures seem to needlessly lock users in, charge more money, or stifle 3rd party competition. Still I don't hate apple, I have a work provided macbook that I really like. I also have a linux desktop that I like even more. The only real point I've been trying to make is that your suggestion that macbooks run rings around non-apple counterparts just isn't true.

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

I’ve been an Apple user for 12 years; I don’t get into justification arguments, nor do I diss Windows users, each to their own with their own requirements and their own cash.

 

I wouldn’t personally look for a deal on an older model; rather, I’d order a new MacBook Air with the M2 Chip, upgrade the RAM to 16GB, the storage to 1TB, which would give you an amazing machine. Not cheap @ 64,900 Baht, but will have good residual value even in 5 years time. Your shout of course, just my tuppence worth …. cheers

I was dragging kicking and screaming into the Mac world in 1990 using Macintosh Plus computers coming from DR-DOS CPM and other esoteric options like 6502 eeprom writing. I hated it, but have since then have used every OS from system 5 to the current Mac OS

 

The advice on the machine to buy is tremendously dependent on the usage and internet access available. Certainly the intel Macs will drop in value quite a bit faster now the M series is here but that may make a buying opportunity in a nearly new used machine. 
 

I doubt that I would advise the majority of users to go to the spec you suggest 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

35 minutes ago, RedBackman said:

With laptops and home computers which was the real focus here, this isn't an issue because hardware is more open and OS's maintain support far past the effective lifetime of the product.

What is your definition of the effective lifetime of a computer?

 

I suspect that we may differ on that. Mine is that it continues to run and runs the programs that I need it to. I have a 2010 Mac mini that is on 24/7/365 it runs a few programs it could be headless. The main one I need it for is Eudora. It’s fast when I need to access it. It has paid for itself many times over.

 

My main computer is a 12.9” 5th Gen. iPad the desktops are mostly a backup for my wife’s iPhone 11 Pro my 2020 iPhone SE this iPad and all the others we have around.

 

I really should get round to getting rid of some of them.

 

Edited June 18, 2022 by sometimewoodworker

[sometimewoodworker]

47 minutes ago, RedBackman said:

As far as the undoubted advantages of their ecosystem, eh, I feel it's a tossup there too. Some of the tight integration is nice but some of the proprietary measures seem to needlessly lock users in, charge more money, or stifle 3rd party competition.

Well the HomeKit integration with security cameras with secure cloud data storage and Aqara sensors and the Hue Items, the AirPlay network 

 

as I mentioned all of these can be done using different apps possibly better but not as easily is there an integrated windows or Android app?

 

As I get older I find the joys in using my devices to do stuff not in doing stuff to them.

when I was 20 I stripped and rebuilt my motorcycles today if I had one I would pay someone to do it for me. Android and windows seem like I would need to get my hands dirty, with apple I don’t need to but I can go into the guts and, for example, edit the apache server configuration if I get the urge

[RedBackman]

2 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

What is your definition of the effective lifetime of a computer?

 

I suspect that we may differ on that. Mine is that it continues to run and runs the programs that I need it to. I have a 2010 Mac mini that is on 24/7/365 it runs a few programs it could be headless. The main one I need it for is Eudora. It’s fast when I need to access it. It has paid for itself many times over.

 

My main computer is a 12.9” 5th Gen. iPad the desktops are mostly a backup for my wife’s iPhone 11 Pro my 2020 iPhone SE this iPad and all the others we have around.

 

I really should get round to getting rid of some of them.

 

I mean some linux distros may support all the way back to the 80's but most cut off at PAE processors so back to ~2003 on really lightweight distros if you want current software. Windows is nearly the same 2003-2005 because it stopped supporting 32bit processors during windows10. They're all past the effective lifetime because the hardware limitations are so severe it's just a really niche use case if you want to do anything close to modern with them.

 

3 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Well the HomeKit integration with security cameras with secure cloud data storage and Aqara sensors and the Hue Items, the AirPlay network 

 

as I mentioned all of these can be done using different apps possibly better but not as easily is there an integrated windows or Android app?

 

As I get older I find the joys in using my devices to do stuff not in doing stuff to them.

when I was 20 I stripped and rebuilt my motorcycles today if I had one I would pay someone to do it for me. Android and windows seem like I would need to get my hands dirty, with apple I don’t need to but I can go into the guts and, for example, edit the apache server configuration if I get the urge

Like I said the integration is nice but you're also much more locked in. Amazon and Google being the two main competitors also have a lot of integration but are more open than apple and support a much wider variety of products. None of them are extremely complicated to set up or to use. Apple products tend to more difficult to work with in a mixed device household than the others. There are workarounds both ways but if you're already invested in the apple ecosystem it could be really daunting to switch which I think is the biggest drawback.

 

Home assistant is probably the tinkerer's choice if you want to get more gritty with it: it's open source, supports pretty much everything possible, you can host it yourself, and it gives you a ton of options and control. That's the one that would be considered getting your hands dirty with setup.

[sometimewoodworker]

12 hours ago, RedBackman said:

I mean some linux distros may support all the way back to the 80's but most cut off at PAE processors so back to ~2003 on really lightweight distros if you want current software. Windows is nearly the same 2003-2005 because it stopped supporting 32bit processors during windows10. They're all past the effective lifetime because the hardware limitations are so severe it's just a really niche use case if you want to do anything close to modern with them.

I think that that demonstrates the point I was making. I am using older machines with older Mac OS versions running older SW to do a job. I also have several/many external drives that I use to boot into different MacOS versions as needed. So I don’t need/want a machine that gets locked into upgrading to the last available OS. 
 

If I want the current OS version I boot into an SSD with it to run the latest SW

 

I don’t know how easy it is to switch to older systems on a single machine with windows or Linux I do know that it is trivial on Mac as well as running as many versions of windows as I want to go back to.

12 hours ago, RedBackman said:

Like I said the integration is nice but you're also much more locked in.

For me the integration is key not just nice, and everything just works. I maybe locked in but having everything jut working in HomeKit makes a huge difference, adding an item I just scan it’s Qr code and it’s in.

 

If you aren’t running HK as your primary controller it’s advantages are not so easy to realise I do have some devices, mostly smart plugs, that are outside HK and it’s rather annoying.

Edited June 19, 2022 by sometimewoodworker

[RedBackman]

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

I think that that demonstrates the point I was making. I am using older machines with older Mac OS versions running older SW to do a job. I also have several/many external drives that I use to boot into different MacOS versions as needed. So I don’t need/want a machine that gets locked into upgrading to the last available OS. 
 

If I want the current OS version I boot into an SSD with it to run the latest SW

 

I don’t know how easy it is to switch to older systems on a single machine with windows or Linux I do know that it is trivial on Mac as well as running as many versions of windows as I want to go back to.

You are not using machines as old as 2003 with modern Mac OS versions is the point. These 20-year-old systems are still supported at a modern OS level today by linux and windows, Catalina support stops at 2012 macbooks. If you want to use older OS versions on windows or linux to run older programs that obviously works too. The idea that they are supported past their effective life is based on the fact that a 2003 pentium 4 is so old and low powered you shouldn't want to do anything modern with it - yet you still could. You can boot different OS drives on non-mac hardware too, that's not mac specific. Both linux and windows aren't locked into upgrading. And for that last point, vm's if that's what you're talking about are very accessible on both windows and linux as well.

 

This was all based on you switching the conversation towards phones, where a locked bootloader pretty much dooms the phone to premature obsolescence when the manufacturer stops support. Our original conversation was about laptops and home computers where that's not an issue because windows and especially linux support hardware for longer than it's really needed.

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

For me the integration is key not just nice, and everything just works. I maybe locked in but having everything jut working in HomeKit makes a huge difference, adding an item I just scan it’s Qr code and it’s in.

 

If you aren’t running HK as your primary controller it’s advantages are not so easy to realise I do have some devices, mostly smart plugs, that are outside HK and it’s rather annoying.

Yes, and amazon/google have really nice integration and setup for the most part too. Scanning a QR code is a pretty common setup for most devices with them too. But they also play more friendly with a variety of manufacturers and give you more choices, and let even apple devices in on the party to control them much easier than vice versa. If you're already in the apple ecosystem and you like it, that's great for you. But if someone is thinking about buying their first apple product it might be a reason to reconsider, because it's a drawback. Personally I don't think I'd recommend someone get into apple products for homekit because I think the competition is better overall but if you already have an iphone, appletv, applewatch, and some homekit devices obviously a macbook makes more sense than a non-mac - unless you want to do something completely outside its wheelhouse like gaming. ????

[Eloquent pilgrim]

On 6/18/2022 at 10:24 AM, sometimewoodworker said:

 

I doubt that I would advise the majority of users to go to the spec you suggest 

I wasn’t asking you to now was I ?

 

And I wasn’t suggesting it for the majority of users either, I was suggesting it to the OP who was looking for a MacBook Pro

[sometimewoodworker]

14 hours ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

I wasn’t asking you to now was I ?

 

And I wasn’t suggesting it for the majority of users either, I was suggesting it to the OP who was looking for a MacBook Pro

Well Mr snarky. I was also addressing the OP’s question.
 

Just because someone is looking for a MacBook Pro doesn’t mean that they have a need or use for the currently unnecessary (unless you are doing 8k video export on a regular basis) extra 8GB of integrated memory or an extremely expensive 1 TB internal SSD. It equally doesn’t mean that if they have a use for that configuration now that they should not get it. 
 

So the advice to get 16k integrated memory and a 1TB SSD disk now is only worthwhile for few users and poor for many 

 

The M series is in its infancy so projecting 5 years into the future is far less sure than with Intel CPUs

[sometimewoodworker]

Further to the above, if someone has a need for a MacBook Pro that is good at video editing then waiting for the currently announced  M2 is a poor idea as the only one is the M2 not the M2 Pro or the M2 Max. 
So with longer high resolution video the M1 Pro or M1 Max are a far better today and better than the announced M2. 
 

prices are from ฿46,900 (13” M2) up to a maxed M1 max ฿215,900

 

 

So bottom line the best MacBook Pro is extremely dependent on the use case and an M2 is not the automatic choice, neither is the memory or storage.
 

Edited June 22, 2022 by sometimewoodworker