The beards, are they for Saudi religious values or for entertainment value ?

44 minutes ago, IAMHERE said:

The beards, are they for Saudi religious values or for entertainment value ?

I didn’t know the answer to that , so looked it up.  https://www.quora.com/Why-do-the-Saudi-monarchs-have-a-unique-beard-style

16 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

It's been on BBC 

OK a mention but I should have wrote coverage and that will not happen unless there is a unique turnabout whereby the LIV pay the sponsors and the top TV companies to get involved . That would not surprise me as money is no object it seems .

13 minutes ago, superal said:

OK a mention but I should have wrote coverage and that will not happen unless there is a unique turnabout whereby the LIV pay the sponsors and the top TV companies to get involved . That would not surprise me as money is no object it seems .

BBC stopped covering live golf years ago, they can't afford it, keep up

For me the litmus test will be when it becomes pay for view. How many people willing to pony up, say 50 dollars, to watch players past their prime. According to reports they offered Tiger a warehouse full of cash to join. Must be hard to tempt a star who earned $68 million last year from non golfing activities. 

I would go to watch it if it was easier to get to but it's near the DM airport so it's a no from me. People were complaining ticket prices were too high in London where eventually they were giving them away, they shouldn't make the same mistake in Bangkok, but in US the higher the better, Americans like paying more

I appears there are 48 tournaments under the PGA and 8 via LIV . 

Have not checked the actual figures but most PGA tournaments have prize money averaging around 7 million?

48 X 7 million = 336 million.

Is that not considerably more than is on offer via LIV.

I just don't see the Saudi's supporting this for too long despite their deep pockets and no doubt many of those currently under contract with LIV will get the boot  for one reason or another.

 

Anyway, time will tell.

16 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

I find it quite amazing there so much pearl clutching with the LIV Tour when, as the article says, F1, major boxing events, the DP World Tour, the Ladies European Tour and FIFA regularly do sporting events in Saudi Arabia. Also, the World Cup is being held in Qatar, a country that regularly jails it's gay community and treats foreign workers as virtual slaves. And of course Saudi Arabia's human rights abuse doesn't stop the UK and US from selling it boatloads of arms it then uses to kill Yemani civilians. Where's the uproar about all that? 

I don't agree with these players joining the tour for what is essentially blood money as I think it's driving a schism in the PGA tour which I watch regularly but I also think they are getting an unfair roasting when you consider how actual governments work hand in hand with Saudi Arabia, ignoring their human rights abuses, the genocidal wars they are involved in and their assinations of those who speak against them (Jamal Khashoggi for example). But a couple of golfers try to cash in...........uproar.

The hypocracy knows no bounds.

More than a couple of golfers ? . I can kinda understand the older golfers such as Richard Bland joining for a tidy sum of money because its his last throw of the dice and he was never a big winner bar the British Masters last year . However the likes of Mickleson , Poulter , Johnson , Kymer , Garcia and Westwood who are all wealthy guys , well it certainly aint for the Kudos , so its only the money and we all know that no matter what bs they come out with . The likes of these guys who were once very popular with the golfing supporters have I think ostracized themselves  and will be all but banished from say the Masters and the Ryder Cup to name but two .  They already had big money earnings but greed overcame their principals 

8 minutes ago, Thailand said:

I appears there are 48 tournaments under the PGA and 8 via LIV . 

Have not checked the actual figures but most PGA tournaments have prize money averaging around 7 million?

48 X 7 million = 336 million.

Is that not considerably more than is on offer via LIV.

I just don't see the Saudi's supporting this for too long despite their deep pockets and no doubt many of those currently under contract with LIV will get the boot  for one reason or another.

 

Anyway, time will tell.

LIV golf will just get bigger, more events, they have momentum now. It would actually suit golfers who don't want to play too often, Tiger Woods would be ideal

13 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

LIV golf will just get bigger, more events, they have momentum now. It would actually suit golfers who don't want to play too often, Tiger Woods would be ideal

The likes of Tiger and say Mcllroy would not stoop so low as too promote this " lack of human rights " country , even if some figure heads of commercial companies e.g. Presidents / PMs do , and they in turn will be rewarded some time later . 

I have no doubt that LIV , in coming to Thailand , may see Thailand as a stepping stone and could even make inroads into the Japanese golf scene and all of Asia . Maybe link up with the Asian Tour .

13 minutes ago, superal said:

The likes of Tiger and say Mcllroy would not stoop so low as too promote this " lack of human rights " country , even if some figure heads of commercial companies e.g. Presidents / PMs do , and they in turn will be rewarded some time later . 

I have no doubt that LIV , in coming to Thailand , may see Thailand as a stepping stone and could even make inroads into the Japanese golf scene and all of Asia . Maybe link up with the Asian Tour .

Quite a few from the Asian tour already bought by LIV to make up the numbers.

12 hours ago, Stargeezr said:

Considering that the Saudi crown prince, may have shares in this LIV, I would not support it or him.

I guess if the top players are getting nearly half a million just to show up to play, is good for them being money greedy.

  Money is all these players are after.

What unlike other, ordinary people? 

What about people who work on the oil rigs or in the natural gas industry? Do you consider them 'monedy greedy'? They're working in industries that support the same autocratic regimes with the same abysmal human rights records whilst also destroying the planet. Should they sacrifice their financial security and the welbeing of their familes for moral and altruistic reasons and should they personally lose out when their own governments won't do a single thing against these regimes?That's essentially what's being asked of these golfers and is hypocracy at it's finest.

Remember, not all players on the LIV are multi-millionaires. In fact very few of them are. Most are just ordinary golfers trying to get by in a VERY competative industry so can you really blame someone for taking that $1 million signing on fee (the money paid to 23-years-old, James Piot the 2021 US Amateur champion) or a 48 year old golfer at the twilight of his career getting $10 million just for signing up (the amount Lee Westwood is supposed to have got).

Morals are all well and good but a lifetime of financial security for you and your family surely takes precedent.   

 

2 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

What unlike other, ordinary people? 

What about people who work on the oil rigs or in the natural gas industry? Do you consider them 'monedy greedy'? They're working in industries that support the same autocratic regimes with the same abysmal human rights records whilst also destroying the planet. Should they sacrifice their financial security and the welbeing of their familes for moral and altruistic reasons and should they personally lose out when their own governments won't do a single thing against these regimes?That's essentially what's being asked of these golfers and is hypocracy at it's finest.

Remember, not all players on the LIV are multi-millionaires. In fact very few of them are. Most are just ordinary golfers trying to get by in a VERY competative industry so can you really blame someone for taking that $1 million signing on fee (the money paid to 23-years-old, James Piot the 2021 US Amateur champion) or a 48 year old golfer at the twilight of his career getting $10 million just for signing up (the amount Lee Westwood is supposed to have got).

Morals are all well and good but a lifetime of financial security for you and your family surely takes precedent.   

 

As per my previous posts where I stated that a golf veteran or a rookie taking big money would be understandable but the likes of say Westwood with a $40 million estimated personal wealth ,  Ian Poulter $60 million , Phil Mickelson $300 million etc etc they must have an expensive life style to succumb to the greed money .  Now if they were making sizeable charity contributions from their new found wealth , they would be seen in a different light . Interesting to watch their reception when teeing off in this weeks PGA major.

29 minutes ago, superal said:

As per my previous posts where I stated that a golf veteran or a rookie taking big money would be understandable but the likes of say Westwood with a $40 million estimated personal wealth ,  Ian Poulter $60 million , Phil Mickelson $300 million etc etc they must have an expensive life style to succumb to the greed money .  Now if they were making sizeable charity contributions from their new found wealth , they would be seen in a different light . Interesting to watch their reception when teeing off in this weeks PGA major.

Mickelson is well documented in wanting to teach the PGA a lesson (as is DeChambeau and Reed who have both had major falling outs with the PGA) so I don't think it's about the money for him, and although Westwood and Poulter may be wealthy by all estimates, they're just not going to earn anywhere near the money the LIV is offering if they stick with the PGA. Poulter earned $116,000 in the 2021/2022 season and although Westwood earned $3million, it was by far his best season for a VERY long time, with most seasons he earns in the hundreds of thousands.

My point though is all this accusation of 'greed money' and 'blood money' levelled at golfers is super hypocritical when the UK has licensed the sale of at least £4.7 billion worth of arms to Saudi Arabia, since the beginning of the civil war in Yemen (not to mention the many billions before this) and the US is selling arms to Saudi worth $350 billion over 10 years. 

I just think it's very easy for most to lambast these golfers as they are an easy target and conviently forget that pretty much EVERYONE ignores Saudi's behaviour when they come knocking with their suitcases full of cash.

 

P.S. And if you REALLY want to teach Suadi a lesson then just do as was done to South Africa during apartheid or what is being done to Russia now. Funny how governments aren't so keen on this for Saudi for some reason.

 

 

Edited June 14, 20224 yr by johnnybangkok

I dont want a ticket to see it. Golf is ok to play but damn boring to watch

20 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

Mickelson is well documented in wanting to teach the PGA a lesson (as is DeChambeau and Reed who have both had major falling outs with the PGA) so I don't think it's about the money for him, and although Westwood and Poulter may be wealthy by all estimates, they're just not going to earn anywhere near the money the LIV is offering if they stick with the PGA. Poulter earned $116,000 in the 2021/2022 season and although Westwood earned $3million, it was by far his best season for a VERY long time, with most seasons he earns in the hundreds of thousands.

My point though is all this accusation of 'greed money' and 'blood money' levelled at golfers is super hypocritical when the UK has licensed the sale of at least £4.7 billion worth of arms to Saudi Arabia, since the beginning of the civil war in Yemen (not to mention the many billions before this) and the US is selling arms to Saudi worth $350 billion over 10 years. 

I just think it's very easy for most to lambast these golfers as they are an easy target and conviently forget that pretty much EVERYONE ignores Saudi's behaviour when they come knocking with their suitcases full of cash.

 

P.S. And if you REALLY want to teach Suadi a lesson then just do as was done to South Africa during apartheid or what is being done to Russia now. Funny how governments aren't so keen on this for Saudi for some reason.

 

 

You present a valid argument however 2 wrongs do not make a right . It is the weapon manufacturers who are lobbying their governments to effect an order from the Saudi's even if it includes entertaining them . Golfers at the end of their careers and those just beginning could be understood in trying to secure a future for themselves and families but the likes of Westwood , Poulter etc are difficult to defend . You need to look at their worth rather than recent prize money . A guy of scruples is Darren Clark who turned down what he called a very very generous offer of a 3 year contract to commentate on the LIV golf events because he did not want to jeopardise his R&A connection .

Mickelsons rift with the PGA is no excuse for his defecting . Why does he not just say that the money was too good to turn down , same for Graeme Mcdowell  .

The LIV golf tour is set to become just a travelling road show with the same players competing week in and week out . Also why would they want to sacrifice playing in the Ryder Cup ?   All those emotional victory celebrations mean little or nothing to them . Money is the root of all evil . 

42 minutes ago, superal said:

You present a valid argument however 2 wrongs do not make a right . It is the weapon manufacturers who are lobbying their governments to effect an order from the Saudi's even if it includes entertaining them . Golfers at the end of their careers and those just beginning could be understood in trying to secure a future for themselves and families but the likes of Westwood , Poulter etc are difficult to defend . You need to look at their worth rather than recent prize money . A guy of scruples is Darren Clark who turned down what he called a very very generous offer of a 3 year contract to commentate on the LIV golf events because he did not want to jeopardise his R&A connection .

Mickelsons rift with the PGA is no excuse for his defecting . Why does he not just say that the money was too good to turn down , same for Graeme Mcdowell  .

The LIV golf tour is set to become just a travelling road show with the same players competing week in and week out . Also why would they want to sacrifice playing in the Ryder Cup ?   All those emotional victory celebrations mean little or nothing to them . Money is the root of all evil . 

I'm not so naive to think that the money is playing a MAJOR part in all of these golfers considerations but what I am pointing out is the hypocritical pearl-clutching and indignation aimed purely at these players and this sport. SOOOO many other sports (football, F1, boxing etc) as well as big business and governments also profit from Suadi money but where is the indignation and outrage with those? 

You are quite correct that two wrongs don't make a right but a level of justification should also play a part and I just don't think a couple of golfers getting this amount of grief is justified in comparison to what governments and big businesses do with Saudi. After all Graeme McDowell is hardly selling Saudi F-15 fighter jets to murder innocent civilians now is he?

 

Some interesting but as yet unsubstantiated info coming from a couple of Twitter sources is that the Saudi Public Investment fund may be in the process of attempting to purchase the DP World Tour outright! I believe they are an Arab public company?

 

Now that would be a game changer.

6 minutes ago, Thailand said:

Some interesting but as yet unsubstantiated info coming from a couple of Twitter sources is that the Saudi Public Investment fund may be in the process of attempting to purchase the DP World Tour outright! I believe they are an Arab public company?

 

Now that would be a game changer.

Apparently connections between LIV and DP World based in Dubai, i can see DP World tour accepting players at the very least

Just a wild guess but I am betting that LIV has offered the guys playing in the Open a substantial sum to perform well.

 

Looks like Phil and a couple of others may have to give some money back! ????

54 minutes ago, Thailand said:

Just a wild guess but I am betting that LIV has offered the guys playing in the Open a substantial sum to perform well.

 

Looks like Phil and a couple of others may have to give some money back! ????

It's difficult for the LIV players to play well with all the noise going on about LIV, if distracted your golf will be relatively poor

Edited June 17, 20224 yr by scubascuba3

57 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

It's difficult for the LIV players to play well with all the noise going on about LIV, if distracted your golf will be relatively poor

Plenty of noise for those not tied up with LIV?

1 minute ago, Thailand said:

Plenty of noise for those not tied up with LIV?

Noise meaning noise in ones head

Ancer is the latest, I am guessing that Speith is a possible. Anyway none of the LIV golfers performed at the US Open.

 

Well done Matt Fitzpatrick!

4 hours ago, Thailand said:

Ancer is the latest, I am guessing that Speith is a possible. Anyway none of the LIV golfers performed at the US Open.

 

Well done Matt Fitzpatrick!

That was some contest between Matt and Zalatoris . Matts shot from the bunker on the 18th was shot of the tournament . Matt must be favourite for the British open . Mcllroy needs to tighten up his putting . That probably cost him a win . How can the travelling LIV repetitive road show , possibly compete with the DP or USPGA tour events ? I do not think that there will be too many tickets sold for the Thai LIV event , or indeed any other of its events  despite the massive money that is being chucked at it . The Saudis need to clean up on their human rights   

1 hour ago, superal said:

That was some contest between Matt and Zalatoris . Matts shot from the bunker on the 18th was shot of the tournament . Matt must be favourite for the British open . Mcllroy needs to tighten up his putting . That probably cost him a win . How can the travelling LIV repetitive road show , possibly compete with the DP or USPGA tour events ? I do not think that there will be too many tickets sold for the Thai LIV event , or indeed any other of its events  despite the massive money that is being chucked at it . The Saudis need to clean up on their human rights   

McIlroy is always frustrating with his putting, he managed to get in the celebration hugging at the end.

 

Looks like LIV players can play on next DP World event 

Edited June 20, 20224 yr by scubascuba3

5 hours ago, superal said:

That was some contest between Matt and Zalatoris . Matts shot from the bunker on the 18th was shot of the tournament . Matt must be favourite for the British open . Mcllroy needs to tighten up his putting . That probably cost him a win . How can the travelling LIV repetitive road show , possibly compete with the DP or USPGA tour events ? I do not think that there will be too many tickets sold for the Thai LIV event , or indeed any other of its events  despite the massive money that is being chucked at it . The Saudis need to clean up on their human rights   

I thought this was an interesting statement by Norman.

 

https://www.perthnow.com.au/sport/golf/greg-norman-accuses-pga-tour-of-hypocrisy-c-7223887

 

Nick Faldo is retiring from commentating on PGA tour, many people suspect he will turn up on LIV

DP World tour and LIV are likely in cahoots to wrest power from the USPGA.

UAE and Saudi have been bombing Yemen in a coalition for years from planes supplied by the West.

Westwood, Poulter et al are getting in early to earn a few shekels before the real big boys crossover, as they surely will. The trickle will turn to a flood and fields of just 48 will be a distant memory.

Incidentally, I recently saw a brilliant documentary from ESPN about Greg Norman's golf career.