Thaksin Is Ordered To Come Home

[Mid]

Everyone is happy.

Lady Justice will be crying ...............

[sriracha john]

They are realizing they don't have a prayer of getting him to come home voluntarily and extradition seems unlikely as well so they are trying to save face now. This is just like the whole youtube thing when they said they were going to sue google and nothing came of it. It's all face saving and b.s. bluffing. Thaksin knows it and they know it he's untouchable overseas.

Interesting.... that in the end, rather than "nothing came of it"... the government seems to have gotten what they wanted from Google with their methods...

Google is Set to Censor YouTube in Thailand

[sriracha john]

You're exactly right. I wouldn't be surprised if there are countries out there actively courting Thaksin to stay in their country on the basis of asylum. Oh yes..he still has billions that the military junta can't touch, remember he was a very wealthy man before he ever became prime minister. As with all savvy tycoons they can rest assured he diversified far and wide. I bet that really irks the junta..they went to all the trouble freezing his accounts from proceeds of a sale but the bulk of his past assets are tucked away in various western countries and carribean nations.

Interesting... that in the end, rather than having "billions that the junta can't touch"... it seems like other countries are asking the junta what they want them to do with Thaksin's assets in their country...

Exiled Thaksin has bank accounts in UK : Amlo

[sriracha john]

I would just add that if you think 66 Billion Baht currently frozen in Thailand still doesn't represent the "bulk of his past assets", then I think you over-estimate the size of his assets.

[Plus]

Forgive me but I don't really understand the points you're making..

It's very simple - the West never misses an opportunity to remind developing nations about transparency, human rights, corruption etc etc, and many loan and help programs are directly tied to corruption indicators.

Now it's the UK's chance to show that it can keep its own house in order.

I don't expect them to arrest and extradite Thaksin, just to show that as a society they abhor people responsible for thousands of deaths, for a start.

Apparently drug war killings were not on a fit and proper person checklist. They don't need to charge him, just acknowledge that it's improper - what could be easier? So far it looks like they don't care.

So far it looks like these deaths are not an issue for Brits, just like it's not an issue for Thais.

I will happily change my opinion if British press start talking about this and more people come forward to voice an opposition.

Until then their lectures sound a bit shallow.

The saddest part is that the world is learning from them. More and more people feel like being cheated and turn to other role models, particularly China.

[bulmercke]

Corruption exists in the UK as well.

A few months ago I listened to a BBC Radio Four investigative report that uncovered numerous 'unlawful and illegal' financial transactions from third world counties to the UK - investments in the city and on the London property market - funds that had almost certainly been plundered from impoverished third world nations.

Apparently there is little or no legislation whatsoever in place to allow for the investigation of these funds.

The city and the UK accept money form anywhere - without any due regard as to where it came from - and with no consideration of the circumstances under which it was assertained.

However........

Thaksin is a total crook......Pojamin's non appearance at court these last two or three occasions is testamant to her thievery and that of her husband.

Thaksin will, sooner or later, go to jail here in Thailand...... with or without......top-notch English lawyers.

[John K]

Let us not forget this does not match his tax return(s). Yet another criminal charge or another honest mistake? Perhaps I should put that in a plural form.

[endure]

Corruption exists in the UK as well.

But he left office today...

[younghusband]

Forgive me but I don't really understand the points you're making..

It's very simple - the West never misses an opportunity to remind developing nations about transparency, human rights, corruption etc etc, and many loan and help programs are directly tied to corruption indicators.

Now it's the UK's chance to show that it can keep its own house in order.

I don't expect them to arrest and extradite Thaksin, just to show that as a society they abhor people responsible for thousands of deaths, for a start.

Apparently drug war killings were not on a fit and proper person checklist. They don't need to charge him, just acknowledge that it's improper - what could be easier? So far it looks like they don't care.

So far it looks like these deaths are not an issue for Brits, just like it's not an issue for Thais.

I will happily change my opinion if British press start talking about this and more people come forward to voice an opposition.

Until then their lectures sound a bit shallow.

The saddest part is that the world is learning from them. More and more people feel like being cheated and turn to other role models, particularly China.

OK thanks I see where you're coming from.It's difficult on this forum sometimes to sort out let us say the eccentric from the reality based, but I have always recognised -usually though vehemently disagreeing -that you have a coherent vision of Thai society, and are not one dimensional.

Anyway back to the UK.It's not just a debating trick on my part but I think it does require some sense of Thai outrage to spark up a parallel British movement on Thaksin's drug war accusations.I understand why there isn't a mass movement here in Thailand, but there isn't even evidence of an active pressure group.If there was an element of protest on the drugs issue in the PAD demonstrations,I must have missed it.It would be nice if there was some latter day Wilberforce -whether here or in the UK- taking up the cudgels for the victims but I doubt if that's going to happen.

But you are right in a way.The British public while basically decent has a short attention span, and the horrors of Dafur and Iraq have obscured this nasty little episode in Thailand.So I don't think the problem is lack of indignation but lack of knowledge, and I fear the sad truth anyway is that those involved in the drug trade (yes they were the vast majority) are not obvious objects of sympathy.

Edited June 28, 2007 by younghusband

[Plus]

Your points on UK business culture seem a bit cartoon like..

If I was thinking of a material for a comic strip Premier League would be perfect.

The fact is that football is the most visible UK business - millions of Asians bet on the games and closely follow all the news.

The fact is that half of foreign owners in Premier League are extremely questionable characters that haven't been caught yet.

Their whole bungs affair closely resembles something like Thai prostituion - everyone knows it's there but no one admits it. They investigated, and investigated, and investigated some more, and nothing came out of it in the end.

Poaching players from other clubs is like Thai parties poaching MPs, complete with secret meeting in posh hotels and expensive restaurants. Their biggest club, Man U, has done it on at least one occasion. Chelsea has actually been punished.

What they haven't got yet is a big match fixing scandal like in Italy.

Selling one of their clubs to Thaksin further sullies their less than stellar reputation.

It's irrational to deny that the situation raises concerns in the UK itself.

.. I understand the stress on people who hold your position.I fear it will all become a lot more difficult for you as a compromise is worked out Thai style over time between Thaksin and the ruling elite.

I'm not affiliated with the junta, if they screw up I won't loose my sleep. It's not my position to defend them at any cost.

I must emphasize however that the whole Thaksin affair is not a burning issue (or even an issue at all) at the political level in the UK.

It has been mentioned in Parlament, it triggered a meeting between Sports Minister and the FA, it drew attention of anti money laundering agencies - not bad for a simple business deal. Wait for the arrest warrants - they surely don't want to deal with those, too. I bet they'd rather have Thaksin go someplace else and don't cause them anymore headaches.

What is most likely to happen is that they unofficially ask him to keep low profile and stay out of the light. Will he sue them for restricting his rights?

[Jai Dee]

CNS Chairman urges Dr. Thaksin to fight his cases in Thailand

The Royal Thai Army Commander-in-Chief and Chairman of the Council for National Security (CNS), Gen. Sonthi Boonyaratglin, suggests deposed Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra to return to Thailand to defend his cases in courts.

Gen. Sonthi addresses to Dr. Thaksin that he has to be confident in the justice system. He says the ousted Prime Minister can arrange his trip to Thailand to fight the charges against him in courts.

Gen. Sonthi says further that relevant units will provide him security when he has returned to Thailand.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 28 June 2007

[Mid]

CNS Chairman urges Dr. Thaksin to fight his cases in Thailand

too little too late ,

they've been sucka punched on this one ,

give t credit for an ounce of brains ,

he knew along time ago that there would come a time when Thailand wanted him back ,

suited his purpose well to have the junta publicly state that his safety wasn't assured .....................

[Jai Dee]

Defence Minister demands Thaksin return

Defence Minister Boonrawd Somtas called on ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra to return to hear charges of concealing assets in person, as Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont and Council for National Security chairman Sonthi Boonyaratkalin have ensured his safety.

Gen Boonrawd countered Mr Thaksin's claim that Thailand is a "killing zone."

The ex-premier claimed earlier this week that the government and the CNS have set up plans to convict him, so he will not return. Gen Boonrawd described this as "just Mr Thaksin's excuse" to just to buy more time and stay abroad.

More from the Bangkok Post here.

[Mid]

Gen Boonrawd countered Mr Thaksin's claim that Thailand is a "killing zone."

truly amazed that forum members haven't picked up on this one yet ,

been floating round for a day or so already .

[Plus]

They are not inviting him to be tried in the courts in Pattani.

There have been no political killings since the coup. They will provide bodyguards.

What are we supposed to say?

The turnaround in the position is not surprising - they are not afraid of him anymore, he'll face arrest warrants and no possibility of bail. He has no support and even grassroots won't stand up for a man who stole tens of billions from the country.

Of course they feel very confident now.

[Mid]

What are we supposed to say?

irony .............

[hammered]

Hmmmm. Funny thing is most people I talk to think T isnt coming back, the Junta dont actually want him back, and knew he wouldnt come back and everything right now is posturing. Cant say I'm losing any sleep over it.

I did miss the T comment about the killing zone. Yeah right cheeky coming from him

[Tony Clifton]

He'll get pinched in China where he's most confident.

[John K]

I think they will pull his passport if an arrest warrant is issued. I don’t think he is legally going anywhere except to Thailand. So for China I think he can forget about it. With the UK’s comment on Thaksin’s bank accounts there, they don’t sound like he is a very popular guest and may not put up too much of a fuss if Thailand wants him back. I suspect his reputation of questionable business practices wont mix too well in the west.

[hammered]

I think they will pull his passport if an arrest warrant is issued. I don’t think he is legally going anywhere except to Thailand. So for China I think he can forget about it. With the UK’s comment on Thaksin’s bank accounts there, they don’t sound like he is a very popular guest and may not put up too much of a fuss if Thailand wants him back. I suspect his reputation of questionable business practices wont mix too well in the west.

If anything goes against him in the west it will be his questionable human rights record or possibly his inability to lead a quiet life/keep his mouth shut rather than any of his business practices.

[chachachacha]

I think they will pull his passport if an arrest warrant is issued. I don't think he is legally going anywhere except to Thailand. So for China I think he can forget about it. With the UK's comment on Thaksin's bank accounts there, they don't sound like he is a very popular guest and may not put up too much of a fuss if Thailand wants him back. I suspect his reputation of questionable business practices wont mix too well in the west.

If anything goes against him in the west it will be his questionable human rights record or possibly his inability to lead a quiet life/keep his mouth shut rather than any of his business practices.

No Euro country will extridite back to thialand due to the horrendous human rights breaches within thai prisons.Also ,the fact that to return him could endanger his life & under euro law the courts cannot extride any person to anywhere that the person concerned could come to any harm be it phisical or mental .

[soundman]

I think they will pull his passport if an arrest warrant is issued. I don't think he is legally going anywhere except to Thailand. So for China I think he can forget about it. With the UK's comment on Thaksin's bank accounts there, they don't sound like he is a very popular guest and may not put up too much of a fuss if Thailand wants him back. I suspect his reputation of questionable business practices wont mix too well in the west.

If anything goes against him in the west it will be his questionable human rights record or possibly his inability to lead a quiet life/keep his mouth shut rather than any of his business practices.

No Euro country will extridite back to thialand due to the horrendous human rights breaches within thai prisons.Also ,the fact that to return him could endanger his life & under euro law the courts cannot extride any person to anywhere that the person concerned could come to any harm be it phisical or mental .

And jeopardise any chance of having criminals extradited from Thailand to Euro countries? It is a two way street. Can't have your cake & eat it too.

Soundman.

[John K]

I think they will pull his passport if an arrest warrant is issued. I don't think he is legally going anywhere except to Thailand. So for China I think he can forget about it. With the UK's comment on Thaksin's bank accounts there, they don't sound like he is a very popular guest and may not put up too much of a fuss if Thailand wants him back. I suspect his reputation of questionable business practices wont mix too well in the west.

If anything goes against him in the west it will be his questionable human rights record or possibly his inability to lead a quiet life/keep his mouth shut rather than any of his business practices.

No Euro country will extridite back to thialand due to the horrendous human rights breaches within thai prisons.Also ,the fact that to return him could endanger his life & under euro law the courts cannot extride any person to anywhere that the person concerned could come to any harm be it phisical or mental .

And jeopardise any chance of having criminals extradited from Thailand to Euro countries? It is a two way street. Can't have your cake & eat it too.

Soundman.

I is amazing how one man’s meat is another man’s poison if you consider this thread.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=104003

however once again it is premature to even debate extradition. However from the posts I have read, if staying in the UK requires Thaksin to melt into the woodwork, be quiet, and to stay out of politics, and retire, then he will most certainly be deported because all require him to super glue his mouth shut. It will be like a moth to fire for Thaksin.

[Plus]

Thaksin's lawers will find ways to keep him in the UK indefinitely, it's not so difficult.

The question is - has he finally lost his mind?

Everything he did recently only compounds his troubles, like a fish caught in the net. No matter what he tries it backfires on him.

If the generals could offer him a deal right after the coup, now he's lost all bargaining power. He has nothing to offer them, he doesn't want to offer anything, he goes on a blind belief that one day he'll return as a hero and his numerous enemies will forget all his transgressions.

His money in Thai banks will be frozen for years - the onus is on him to prove that it's clean. His family members who signed all the papers can't return to Thailand either. What does he do - declare to the world that he secretly syphoned 10 billion baht out of the country. Hasn't he got enough legal troubles already?

His Man City investment will ruin his reputation forever, it's just a matter of time before he runs out of money to support his new toy and face rebellion from the fans, players, and the management. What next?

He really doesn't see it, he finally fell for his own bullshit.

[mark lamai]

just a thought.

currently reading John Ralston Saul's "Voltaire's Bastards"

showing the development of the courtier into the modern day technocrat.

this type rules by secrecy and fear and is addicted to power.

but are very uncomfotable outside their domain of control.

to me this expalins why the Taksin will forever want to return.

even though he can stay away in luxury for the rest of his life if he chooses.

[chinthee]

just a thought.

currently reading John Ralston Saul's "Voltaire's Bastards"

showing the development of the courtier into the modern day technocrat.

this type rules by secrecy and fear and is addicted to power.

but are very uncomfotable outside their domain of control.

to me this expalins why the Taksin will forever want to return.

even though he can stay away in luxury for the rest of his life if he chooses.

It also leads to an almost sociopathic belief that they will never be caught and punished. They are almost like lambs to the slaughter because of this incredible arrogance.

[Mid]

Thailand's political stand-off

Penalty shoot-out

Jun 28th 2007 | BANGKOK

From The Economist print edition

The game is not over yet, despite the goals the junta has scored

snip

In the meantime, he promises to fight the allegations against him. Bringing charges is one thing; making them stick in the Thai courts is quite another. Mr Thaksin should also be able to delay for years any moves to extradite him, and perhaps thwart them altogether. Under British law, extradition is forbidden if the defendant can show (as Mr Thaksin claims) that the charges are politically motivated or his basic rights are otherwise at risk. General Sonthi's recent comment that he could not guarantee Mr Thaksin's safety if he returned did sound like a veiled threat.

snip

[sriracha john]

I think they will pull his passport if an arrest warrant is issued. I don't think he is legally going anywhere except to Thailand. So for China I think he can forget about it. With the UK's comment on Thaksin's bank accounts there, they don't sound like he is a very popular guest and may not put up too much of a fuss if Thailand wants him back. I suspect his reputation of questionable business practices wont mix too well in the west.

If anything goes against him in the west it will be his questionable human rights record or possibly his inability to lead a quiet life/keep his mouth shut rather than any of his business practices.

No Euro country will extridite back to thialand due to the horrendous human rights breaches within thai prisons.Also ,the fact that to return him could endanger his life & under euro law the courts cannot extride any person to anywhere that the person concerned could come to any harm be it phisical or mental .

And jeopardise any chance of having criminals extradited from Thailand to Euro countries? It is a two way street. Can't have your cake & eat it too.

Soundman.

A valid point. The balance of the traffic of extradited persons certainly seems to be tipped on the Bangkok to London side.

[hammered]

I remain unconvinced that they really want him home. Knopwing he wont return makes it easy to play up how much you want him to return to go through the judicial procedure, which is a good politcal point for the current government both domestically and internationally.

I guess we will see however.

[John K]

Actually it looks like I would expect it to be. My experience from the states reflects that one branch of government may not necessarily know what the other is doing. So to say one day go away and the next come and visit make sense to me. I guess so may of us have become use to the chaotic appearance and the “why did they do that?” workings of the Thaksin government, when it starts to look and act normally it appears suspicious to us as we are looking for the catch.