Dogs fighting. Any Solutions?

[MJCM]

We have 2 Bang Kaew Dogs.

 

1 is a Female almost 2 years old and the other one is a Male approx 7 months old. They come from a different (official) breeder.

 

They are together since the male was 2 months old, that's when we got him.

Both dogs had an operation on so that they can't have/make babies.

 

Issue:

 

Since very recently both dogs started fighting but not all the time and normally they are walking/eating together so are friendly towards each other.

 

Re: The Fight:  From what I am seeing the male dog (which is much bigger then the female) is initiating the fights, but the female still wins. So the female is still the "leader".

 

Normally this wouldn't be an issue because when I see them fighting I intervene and they stop, but I most go to BKK for a Hospital Visit and won't be back for a couple of days (at least 4-5). We have someone taking take care of the property, the dogs are oke with him, but I doubt it (quite sure about this) he will want to intervene when they are fighting.

 

I already said if the situation gets worse when we are not there we said to take the male dog to our OLD house which also has a large garden till we get back from BKK.

 

So any tips?

[proton]

Don't keep dogs is my advice, nasty animals ????

[Polar Bear]

 

When you say they are fighting, are they actually injuring each other? Has either of them had a puncture wound? Or is it all teeth bared and noise while they try to pin each other down and no actual damage (or maybe just surface scratches from being pinned)?

[MJCM]

1 minute ago, Polar Bear said:

 

When you say they are fighting, are they actually injuring each other? Has either of them had a puncture wound? Or is it all teeth bared and noise while they try to pin each other down and no actual damage (or maybe just surface scratches from being pinned)?

Female: Wound on her cheek

Male: Wound on his leg

 

Both bleeding

[Polar Bear]

Any injuries to the neck or belly?

[Hummin]

Our dogs did fight alot for awhile, but we kept on separating them every time they did, and eventually they stopped. 
 

 

[MJCM]

1 minute ago, Polar Bear said:

Any injuries to the neck or belly?

Nope!

 

Cheek - Female

Leg - Male

 

[MJCM]

^ But that said, I intervene before it  gets out of hand and maybe if I would let them go at it, who knows what would happen, but Id rather not let get it that far

 

 

[MJCM]

5 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Our dogs did fight alot for awhile, but we kept on separating them every time they did, and eventually they stopped. 
 

 

That is what I am doing at the moment, my wife don't dare to do it, they one time were fighting and she used a stick to try to separate them, but that didn't help much.

 

And we are away from either Saturday / Sunday so I think the only solution when they keep fighting is to send the MALE away for the time being till we get back.

 

The female is a great snake catcher and we get a lot of them on this property.

[MJCM]

Some pics of the dogs in question

 

[Hummin]

That's an a harmless tree snake, and unfortunate, dogs kill mostly harmless snakes. 

[MJCM]

3 minutes ago, Hummin said:

That's an a harmless tree snake, and unfortunate, dogs kill mostly harmless snakes. 

Not only harmless Snakes, she was hit in the eye (spit) by a Cobra and I got hit on the arm (also spit) by it when I removed it from our property. Fortunately nothing serious happened to her, we got eye drops that cleared it.

 

She KILLS anything she sees even the smallest gecko/lizard/mouse etc etc. She really has the instincts of Wolf in her.

 

Just recently she caught a bird that was just resting on the patio, how she did it NO idea! She just kills it and leaves it for me to find!

 

[Polar Bear]

Without knowing the dogs, this is only a best guess, but given their ages, that they are both neutered, and they are opposite sexes, it would be unusual for them to fight seriously, and the lack of serious injury (puncture wounds to the neck or belly), also points in that direction. 

 

It sounds like they have formed a social group, as they get along with each other in general and are OK around food. So your female probably granted the male a puppy licence when he was younger. That allows him to play, roughhouse and generally be a little sh!t in a way that she wouldn't tolerate off an adult dog. Puppy licence typically expires by around 6 months, at which point he needs to start learning some manners. But he's being a bit slow to mature, so he's still pushing her boundaries, and she's telling him off because he's too old for that now. For example, he's still biting her face, which is puppy playfighting, but he's too big/rough, so he's hurting her, and she's putting him in his place. 

When they aren't fighting, you might see him reverting to be more puppy-like with her, puppy yipping, licking or nipping her face, play bows, appeasement behaviours like showing his belly, as he tried to convince her he's still a puppy. She will be less and less tolerant of it, which hopefully means she will just ignore him. 

To some extent, this has to play out because he needs to grow up and learn some manners, but that doesn't mean just leaving them to fight. If this is what's going on, it's probably not going to escalate much beyond the current situation, although the longer it goes on, the more annoyed she is going to get, so you still want to break up the fights. If they are outside when they fight, throw a bucket of water over them, or spray them with a hose. If they are indoors, spray the male in the face with water. If you don't want to use water, a loud noise can work as well, but water is usually more effective. Combine it with 'enough' said loudly and sternly. (Avoid 'no' it's too overused, and they hear it in too many contexts, so many dogs just ignore it.) It doesn't matter if you soak the female as well, she already knows this is inappropriate behaviour. After a few soakings, just saying 'enough' should break it up, (I switch to enough and a loud hand clap to signal stop it, whatever 'it' is). Your dog sitter might be more comfortable with water, than getting physically involved. 

 

If you aren't working on his training already, you need to start, like yesterday. Self-control exercises will help, sit, stay, wait/leave, anything that encourages him to calm down. It'll likely fix itself as he matures anyway, but you can speed it up with training.

[Hummin]

2 minutes ago, MJCM said:

Not only harmless Snakes, she was hit in the eye (spit) by a Cobra and I got hit on the arm (also spit) by it when I removed it from our property. Fortunately nothing serious happened to her, we got eye drops that cleared it.

 

She KILLS anything she sees even the smallest gecko/lizard/mouse etc etc. She really has the instincts of Wolf in her.

 

Just recently she caught a bird that was just resting on the patio, how she did it NO idea! She just kills it and leaves it for me to find!

 

Same with our female dog, great hunting, so great we where forced to put a gps collar on her with sound, vibration and El shock to keep her away from the neighbours chickens. So now she got only 80m radius to explore. Luckily she only warn us when there is a snake, not trying to kill it yet. 

[MJCM]

@Polar Bear

 

You are spot on! Exactly described him as he is.

 

Unrest-less piece of ... I sometimes call him ????

 

The female is really smart, for example I like to give them snacks to reward them and I feed them from the hand, the female was at first the same as any dog, they just grab it and don't care about gentle. After 1-2 weeks she got the idea and she is ever so gentle, even when I minimize the size of the snack between my fingers she is ..... gentle.

 

The male on the other hand, 4+ months on and he is still must be told all the time to be gentle else he would bite my finger and that is 4+ months on.

 

He needs a lot more work I guess!

 

Thx a lot, really appreciated!

[MJCM]

9 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Same with our female dog, great hunting, so great we where forced to put a gps collar on her with sound, vibration and El shock to keep her away from the neighbours chickens. So now she got only 80m radius to explore. Luckily she only warn us when there is a snake, not trying to kill it yet. 

We have our whole property fenced in (3+ Rai) (very soon it's going to be doubled in size) so they have lots to explore.

 

The female is the hunter, the male just sits and stares ????

 

I would be very afraid if the female gets loose, I think the Bill in killed chicken from people around us will be Massive ????

 

 

 

[Hummin]

1 minute ago, MJCM said:

We have our whole property fenced in (3+ Rai) (very soon it's going to be doubled in size) so they have lots to explore.

 

The female is the hunter, the male just sits and stares ????

 

I would be very afraid if the female gets loose, I think the Bill in killed chicken from people around us will be Massive ????

 

 

 

Our neighbour put poison out, and kill stray dogs who kill his chickens, so therefore we need control of her. 

[MJCM]

43 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Our neighbour put poison out, and kill stray dogs who kill his chickens, so therefore we need control of her. 

Yeah big problem also around our old village.

 

Friend had the most friendliest dog you ever meet, someone who doesn't like dogs (removed) fed it some snacks with poison. Killed it!

 

Edit: But won't the Chickens eat it as well, and he thus actually kills his own Chickens?

 

[Hummin]

6 minutes ago, MJCM said:

Yeah big problem also around our old village.

 

Friend had the most friendliest dog you ever meet, someone who doesn't like dogs (removed) fed it some snacks with poison. Killed it!

 

Edit: But won't the Chickens eat it as well, and he thus actually kills his own Chickens?

 

He put poison in dead chickens

 

 

Herecis the gps collar if someone wondered or need. 
 

I had to use Amazon priority shipping to get it through custom, after they failed to get it through first with ordinary shipping. 

 

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07RSMKVTG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[overherebc]

On 7/7/2022 at 4:19 PM, proton said:

Don't keep dogs is my advice, nasty animals ????

Nowhere near as nasty as most people and they don't make nasty comments about each other.

[proton]

34 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Nowhere near as nasty as most people and they don't make nasty comments about each other.

No they just attack, around 400k cases in the USA alone, dangerous, sly and crafty. They are responsible for hundreds of child deaths a year, but people just love to make excuses for them.

[overherebc]

1 hour ago, proton said:

No they just attack, around 400k cases in the USA alone, dangerous, sly and crafty. They are responsible for hundreds of child deaths a year, but people just love to make excuses for them.

Yep, that's people, they just do that.

[proton]

40 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Yep, that's people, they just do that.

An excellent site that keeps track of these crafty, vicious dogs some keep as pets

 

 

[Polar Bear]

1 hour ago, proton said:

No they just attack, around 400k cases in the USA alone, dangerous, sly and crafty. They are responsible for hundreds of child deaths a year, but people just love to make excuses for them.

400k dog attacks in the USA. ~400k violent crimes per 100,000 people against humans by humans in the USA.

17 children killed by dogs in the USA last year. 35 children murdered by humans in the USA every day. 

You have to find a special site to get information on dog attacks. You can open literally any newspaper or news site and find story after story about human violence. 

You dislike dogs, that's fine, it's your business, but statistically, you pose a far greater danger to other people, especially children, than a dog does.

[Hummin]

1 hour ago, proton said:

No they just attack, around 400k cases in the USA alone, dangerous, sly and crafty. They are responsible for hundreds of child deaths a year, but people just love to make excuses for them.

Get your numbers right

 

https://petkeen.com/dog-bite-statistics/

 

People are those responsible in most cases. Should had license to own a dog

[connda]

I recently saw someone break up a dog fight by shoving a finger up one of the dog's bum. 
Now I've been checking around on the Internet and there are a number of posts about using this technique.

Other than that, don't freak out.  You need to maintain your cool.  Check on the internet as this is a widely covered topic but it usually take two people.

[proton]

28 minutes ago, connda said:

I recently saw someone break up a dog fight by shoving a finger up one of the dog's bum. 
Now I've been checking around on the Internet and there are a number of posts about using this technique.

Other than that, don't freak out.  You need to maintain your cool.  Check on the internet as this is a widely covered topic but it usually take two people.

Good luck trying that with a Rottie or Pittie named something like Tyson, Fury or Rage ????

[connda]

Fyi.

I've got seven dogs and they do not get along.  So, I have a fence system that keeps them in mini-packs that which covers the entire property.  I keep them in groups.  Some times they can intermix.  But fencing works well in our case.  By dogs don't roam.  Interesting though.  I support and care for another pack at our local temple.  They are fed, have medicines and we will eventually neuter the pups (three of them are females as they have been abandoned at the temple).  There is one beautiful dominate male who is really good tempered leading the pack.  And someone dropped off a pregnant bitch.  Which should be fun.
Maybe I should start a Dog Rescue foundation.  We take care of the dogs and have been renovating the temple also. 
My wife pretty much got rid of the last monk at the temple.  He didn't want other monks or any animals living at the temple. He didn't do alms rounds.  He just hung out and played on his computer and attended events where he could make money.  My wife caught him participating in a Romance Scam that ended up ripping off a number of locals as well as the temple bank accounts.  People didn't want to press charges (well it was a Romance scam and the other two villagers in charge of the bank accounts would have been implicated) but we had copies of the lead-on love letters and other clear evidence.  Instead of working with the cops, Mrs Connda contacted the lead monks in our district and filed complaints with them.  A monk involved in Romance Scams?  Ouch.  Very embarrassing.  She used police involvement as threat.  The district head monk agreed and the older monk got kicked out. 
So over the last couple of months we have renovated the monk's (kuti) two story building at the temple with three upper rooms for the resident monks, and we started taking care of the local dogs who stayed there even though the last monk tried to kick them all out. Temples are a good place for dogs who receive care.  If they are cared for and get affection, they stay pretty mellow, and they eat the excess food from alms rounds so it doesn't go to waste.
So now we have two new monks and one naan who is a nephew ( extended family).
My wife has organized a group of villagers to oversee the temple's bank accounts and to stage fund raisers as the last monk drained them on the Romance Scam. 

So we're doing good.
New monks.  New dogs.  Happy temple. 

[Hummin]

29 minutes ago, connda said:

Fyi.

I've got seven dogs and they do not get along.  So, I have a fence system that keeps them in mini-packs that which covers the entire property.  I keep them in groups.  Some times they can intermix.  But fencing works well in our case.  By dogs don't roam.  Interesting though.  I support and care for another pack at our local temple.  They are fed, have medicines and we will eventually neuter the pups (three of them are females as they have been abandoned at the temple).  There is one beautiful dominate male who is really good tempered leading the pack.  And someone dropped off a pregnant bitch.  Which should be fun.
Maybe I should start a Dog Rescue foundation.  We take care of the dogs and have been renovating the temple also. 
My wife pretty much got rid of the last monk at the temple.  He didn't want other monks or any animals living at the temple. He didn't do alms rounds.  He just hung out and played on his computer and attended events where he could make money.  My wife caught him participating in a Romance Scam that ended up ripping off a number of locals as well as the temple bank accounts.  People didn't want to press charges (well it was a Romance scam and the other two villagers in charge of the bank accounts would have been implicated) but we had copies of the lead-on love letters and other clear evidence.  Instead of working with the cops, Mrs Connda contacted the lead monks in our district and filed complaints with them.  A monk involved in Romance Scams?  Ouch.  Very embarrassing.  She used police involvement as threat.  The district head monk agreed and the older monk got kicked out. 
So over the last couple of months we have renovated the monk's (kuti) two story building at the temple with three upper rooms for the resident monks, and we started taking care of the local dogs who stayed there even though the last monk tried to kick them all out. Temples are a good place for dogs who receive care.  If they are cared for and get affection, they stay pretty mellow, and they eat the excess food from alms rounds so it doesn't go to waste.
So now we have two new monks and one naan who is a nephew ( extended family).
My wife has organized a group of villagers to oversee the temple's bank accounts and to stage fund raisers as the last monk drained them on the Romance Scam. 

So we're doing good.
New monks.  New dogs.  Happy temple. 

The most important thing to do, is to neuture the stray dogs as quick as possible. Also convince the villagers to do the same with their dogs. 

[connda]

On 7/9/2022 at 2:07 PM, Hummin said:

The most important thing to do, is to neuture the stray dogs as quick as possible. Also convince the villagers to do the same with their dogs. 

I have neutered a bunch of temple dogs out of my own pocket over the last few years.  Due to lack of funding (it's out of my own pocket) we concentrate on females.  Well, if the females are spade, what can a male do. 
If anyone want to contribute.  Maybe I'll set up a foundation and a Thai equivalent of a 'Go Fund Me' page. 
We do a lot of good work, but it's all out of my own pocket.  I think our vet lost count of the number of dogs and cats (and birds) we brought to her when the count went over 20.