California governor signs gun bill modeled after Texas abortion law Those who make or sell banned weapons could face $10,000 in damages.

[Scott]

California governor signs gun bill modeled after Texas abortion law

Aluminum lower receivers for AR-15 rifles are displayed for sale at Firearms Unknown, a gun store in Oceanside, California, April 12, 2021.

California Gov. Gavin Newsom signed a new gun bill on Friday that is explicitly modeled after Texas' unprecedented abortion law. The state is now the first to allow citizens to sue people who make or sell banned weapons, state officials said.

The bill, SB 1327, allows Californians to sue those making, selling, transporting or distributing illegal assault weapons or ghost guns for at least $10,000 in damages. Gun dealers who illegally sell firearms to those under the age of 21 could also be liable for the same damages.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/california-governor-signs-gun-bill-modeled-texas-abortion/story?id=87253528

 

[wombat]

So SNAFU then?

[Wrwest]

What is good for the goose is good for the gander?!

[spidermike007]

Something needs to be done. And American politicians are very weak and in constant fear of fighting a constitutional amendment that was written at a time when militias were needed and guns were manual and fairly primitive.

 

Everything has changed, and the amendment does not have the same meaning, nor should it. Violence is out of control, yet they do next to nothing about it. America seems to adore it's violence. 

[Hanaguma]

41 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Something needs to be done. And American politicians are very weak and in constant fear of fighting a constitutional amendment that was written at a time when militias were needed and guns were manual and fairly primitive.

 

Everything has changed, and the amendment does not have the same meaning, nor should it. Violence is out of control, yet they do next to nothing about it. America seems to adore it's violence. 

When the Constitution was written, ALL guns were manual and primitive. That was the point- citizens were allowed to keep and bear arms that were on a par with the government. Same holds true today.   

 

And actually, violence is not out of control. In 1990, there were 9 violent crimes per 100,000 population. Today, about 6.  There has been  an uptick during Covid, probably a result of people being turfed out of jobs and generally feeling hopeless. 

 

What IS happening is that there are a large number of "publicity worthy" crimes that get headlines. Mass shootings, racially motivated crime, etc. All are terrible but don't move the statistical needle. 

[Bkk Brian]

29 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

And actually, violence is not out of control. In 1990, there were 9 violent crimes per 100,000 population. Today, about 6.  There has been  an uptick during Covid, probably a result of people being turfed out of jobs and generally feeling hopeless. 

 

What IS happening is that there are a large number of "publicity worthy" crimes that get headlines. Mass shootings, racially motivated crime, etc. All are terrible but don't move the statistical needle. 

More Americans died of gun-related injuries in 2020 than in any other year on record, in 2020, the most recent year for which complete data is available, 45,222 people died from gun-related injuries in the U.S. The 45,222 total gun deaths in 2020 were by far the most on record, representing a 14% increase from the year before, a 25% increase from five years earlier and a 43% increase from a decade prior.

[Jingthing]

Fighting fire with fire.

Bang bang!

Methinks Newsom is running for president. 

[Jingthing]

4 hours ago, Wrwest said:

What is good for the goose is good for the gander?!

Yes and no.

I really hate this movement started by the radical right wingers to use SNITCH LAWS like this to threaten financial penalties to such a wide group of penalty. Most notoriously the DeSantis Don't Say Gay law and the Texas abortion snitch-a-rama for dollars. 

That said, if it's happening, and it is happening, why should the right wing be only benificiary?

But I really really don't like this trend and wish it had never started.

Edited July 23, 2022 by Jingthing

[spidermike007]

55 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

When the Constitution was written, ALL guns were manual and primitive. That was the point- citizens were allowed to keep and bear arms that were on a par with the government. Same holds true today.   

 

And actually, violence is not out of control. In 1990, there were 9 violent crimes per 100,000 population. Today, about 6.  There has been  an uptick during Covid, probably a result of people being turfed out of jobs and generally feeling hopeless. 

 

What IS happening is that there are a large number of "publicity worthy" crimes that get headlines. Mass shootings, racially motivated crime, etc. All are terrible but don't move the statistical needle. 

Crime is on the rise in the US. Statistics can be misleading. Ask any American who lives in a big city. Violence is up. Theft is skyrocketing. It is a thoroughly broken society. 

[Hanaguma]

2 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

More Americans died of gun-related injuries in 2020 than in any other year on record, in 2020, the most recent year for which complete data is available, 45,222 people died from gun-related injuries in the U.S. The 45,222 total gun deaths in 2020 were by far the most on record, representing a 14% increase from the year before, a 25% increase from five years earlier and a 43% increase from a decade prior.

Yes, but those numbers include suicides. I think the other poster was talking about violence as in crime.  Which is down over 30 years.

[Hanaguma]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Crime is on the rise in the US. Statistics can be misleading. Ask any American who lives in a big city. Violence is up. Theft is skyrocketing. It is a thoroughly broken society. 

With respect, "ask anyone" is not a substitute for data. The short term trend is up, due to Covid and large cities becoming havens for theft etc. This can be laid largely at the feet of feckless district attorneys and demoralized police. However, even with that, the overall rate is down over time.  Property crime, for example, was 50% lower in 2020 than in 1990.

 

https://crime-data-explorer.app.cloud.gov/pages/explorer/crime/crime-trend

[Hanaguma]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Fighting fire with fire.

Bang bang!

Methinks Newsom is running for president. 

I hope you are right. An oleaginous cuck like the good governor would ensure a Republican victory of epic proportions.  He has done nothing to help with homelessness in California, there is net migration OUT of the state for the first time ever, he was a raging hypocrite (even by Democratic standards) during Covid... the only good thing to say is that he might, just might, be better than Kamala Harris.  And that's a jump ball.

[Jingthing]

25 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

I hope you are right. An oleaginous cuck like the good governor would ensure a Republican victory of epic proportions.  He has done nothing to help with homelessness in California, there is net migration OUT of the state for the first time ever, he was a raging hypocrite (even by Democratic standards) during Covid... the only good thing to say is that he might, just might, be better than Kamala Harris.  And that's a jump ball.

I'm sure that you would have similar attack rants ready for ANY democrat that might contend. As a former Californian though, I don't see California as a model for the future state either. Newsom was very good as a pioneer major politician taking action for marriage equality. Maybe he is rather a sleaze ball but that doesn't seem to be stopping DeSantis. I noted you used the word cuck. I would be embarrassed to use such a ridiculous alt right code word.

Edited July 23, 2022 by Jingthing

[bendejo]

There was a book, and a movie made from it, called The Ox-Bow Incident.  Young Henry Fonda, and if you don't blink young Anthony Quinn.

A parable set in The Old West of vigilante justice, which is what these things border on.  Recommended watching, even for children.  (The book was on my 6th grade summer reading list long ago.)

This new-wave of frontier justice (how apt it began in Texas!) will certainly yield some ugly results, but I think this what Newsom has in mind.  A FedEx man delivers what he suspects is a mod to create an automatic weapon and then initiates an action, and the burden is on the accused.  And then the accusations lead to investigations, and the search of the accused's house finds it was not what was suspected but they did find a few ounces of meth tucked into the couch.  What if this kind of enforcement expands to things like, let's say, adultery?  The job of motel clerk can turn very rewarding.  Or bribery/kickbacks/etc that are not dismissed as being covered by Citizens United -type laws?   The US is going to need a lot more lawyers.

 

What?  Newsom has an eye on the White House?  Really?  

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

9 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Yes, but those numbers include suicides. I think the other poster was talking about violence as in crime.  Which is down over 30 years.

"That included a record number of gun murders"

[Hanaguma]

9 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I'm sure that you would have similar attack rants ready for ANY democrat that might contend. As a former Californian though, I don't see California as a model for the future state either. Newsom was very good as a pioneer major politician taking action for marriage equality. Maybe he is rather a sleaze ball but that doesn't seem to be stopping DeSantis. I noted you used the word cuck. I would be embarrassed to use such a ridiculous alt right code word.

Actually, you are rignt. I shouldn't have used "cuck" to refer to him. As the governor is an adulterer, the proper term is "sleaze ball", as you said. 

 

And no, I would not say the same about any Democrat.  Only ones with proven records of failure, like Newsom. 

[Hanaguma]

57 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

"That included a record number of gun murders"

Gun murders, yes. Overall murder rate, going lower over time. Just as with all violent crimes. 

[Bkk Brian]

7 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Gun murders, yes. Overall murder rate, going lower over time. Just as with all violent crimes. 

Yes this OP is about the gun bill hence why I pointed out that there's been a record number of gun murders, a 43% increase in gun related deaths from a decade prior.

Edited July 24, 2022 by Bkk Brian

[RPCVguy]

14 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Crime is on the rise in the US. Statistics can be misleading. Ask any American who lives in a big city. Violence is up. Theft is skyrocketing. It is a thoroughly broken society. 

When quoting statistics such as deaths (whether by Covid or by guns) the stats can be in terms of absolute numbers or they can be reported as deaths per 100,000 or per million. Absolute numbers will consistently look worse in the most populated cities and states, but the rates per 100,000 as shown in this 2020 Pew Research graphic can be surprising.
As noted in earlier comments, over half the deaths are due to suicide. Murders will be numerically higher where there are the most people, but small towns like Uvalde, TX demonstrate that they can happen anywhere. That statistic (murder vs suicide) is not one I've found separated out in any consistent manner. Maybe someone else has been more successful.

As for the law in California... it is a way to push back at the long term inoperability for society to have vigilante snitch laws like in Texas regarding abortion. Neither law should stand, but it will take a rebalancing of the Supreme Court to get that accomplished.

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Actually, you are rignt. I shouldn't have used "cuck" to refer to him. As the governor is an adulterer, the proper term is "sleaze ball", as you said. 

 

But you did. And your mask has slipped.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

But you did. And your mask has slipped.

That ship had sailed long ago.

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

That ship had sailed long ago.

I should have written that the mask had slipped again.

[vandeventer]

14 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

I hope you are right. An oleaginous cuck like the good governor would ensure a Republican victory of epic proportions.  He has done nothing to help with homelessness in California, there is net migration OUT of the state for the first time ever, he was a raging hypocrite (even by Democratic standards) during Covid... the only good thing to say is that he might, just might, be better than Kamala Harris.  And that's a jump ball.

California, such a great place to leave, like most blue states! I wonder why?

[Hanaguma]

3 hours ago, placeholder said:

But you did. And your mask has slipped.

I am not sure what you mean by that. Could you explain please?

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

I am not sure what you mean by that. Could you explain please?

There's a certain class of people who use the word "cuck" and pretty much no one else.

[Iamfalang]

22 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Violence is out of control, yet they do next to nothing about it. America seems to adore it's violence. 

I don't agree.  More violence in China, Burma, Philippines, Ukraine, Russia.....

 

only your news feeds points you to American shootings.   

 

Nobody adores violence, this is a completely ridiculous statement.   Ridiculous.  Like saying some countries love drugs going through them all day, every day, all the time.......

 

it's just some countries are the most important and people are OBSESSED with everything that that happens there.    10,000 Burmese killed......forgotten.  One American shot, a lifetime of news stories.   

[Hanaguma]

27 minutes ago, placeholder said:

There's a certain class of people who use the word "cuck" and pretty much no one else.

...still not getting it, sorry. You are going to have to be a little more direct.

 

No mask here. I make no bones about how I feel or think about certain issues. It's only fair to be transparent IMHO.  I wish others would do the same.

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Hanaguma said:

...still not getting it, sorry. You are going to have to be a little more direct.

 

No mask here. I make no bones about how I feel or think about certain issues. It's only fair to be transparent IMHO.  I wish others would do the same.

cuck

noun [ C ]

   disapproving

 

UK 

 

 /kʌk/ US 

 

 /kʌk/

 

 

informal

an insulting word for a weak man, used especially by people on the extreme right of politics to refer to men with politically liberal views:

"Cuck" became the alt-right's favourite insult.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/cuck

[Hanaguma]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

cuck

noun [ C ]

   disapproving

 

UK 

 

 /kʌk/ US 

 

 /kʌk/

 

 

informal

an insulting word for a weak man, used especially by people on the extreme right of politics to refer to men with politically liberal views:

"Cuck" became the alt-right's favourite insult.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/cuck

Yes, as I said before, I was mistaken. The governor wasn't a "cuck" in the classic sense, as HE was the one committing adultery on his wife with another woman.  It does apply to his personality and actions though.  I will stand by that. 

[spidermike007]

17 hours ago, RPCVguy said:

When quoting statistics such as deaths (whether by Covid or by guns) the stats can be in terms of absolute numbers or they can be reported as deaths per 100,000 or per million. Absolute numbers will consistently look worse in the most populated cities and states, but the rates per 100,000 as shown in this 2020 Pew Research graphic can be surprising.
As noted in earlier comments, over half the deaths are due to suicide. Murders will be numerically higher where there are the most people, but small towns like Uvalde, TX demonstrate that they can happen anywhere. That statistic (murder vs suicide) is not one I've found separated out in any consistent manner. Maybe someone else has been more successful.

As for the law in California... it is a way to push back at the long term inoperability for society to have vigilante snitch laws like in Texas regarding abortion. Neither law should stand, but it will take a rebalancing of the Supreme Court to get that accomplished.

Load up the court. I would like to see Biden attempt to add 10 justices, to make up for the extreme imbalance of the court, and their inability to be fair and just.