How realistic is it in Thailand to get detailed quotations?

[OneMoreFarang]

This is one example:

In my new apartment I will have 4 ACs. I had an AC professional come to my place to look at the details.

My Thai project manager and me explained to him where the AC indoor units should be, where the compressors should be, details about the condensed water drainage pipes which should be in the walls, etc.

It seems he understood the situation and prepared a quotation.

And then in the quotation is a list with the prices of the AC units and installation cost: amount x. No further details.

Personally I would have expected that he quotes x meter of copper pipes of this size, and y meter of drainage pipes and a description what is included in the installation like i.e. opening the walls and putting drainage pipes in the walls. And maybe what is not included, i.e. power cables have to be installed to the AC unit.

For me a quotation should be understandable and precise to anybody with basic knowledge about construction. Something like "we install it like we discussed" is IMHO not good enough.

 

Now we all know this is Thailand. And expecting that something should be like this or that is one thing. But even nice people get upset when farangs ask too many (unnecessary) questions. For the supplier it seems like: we discussed this already, why should I write it all down?

 

What do you think about this? Did you demand detailed quotations? Did you get them?

Or did you get quotations like "installation included" only to find out that your understanding of that term was different than what the supplier had in mind?

 

Thanks in advance for your replies. It would be good if you talk about your actual experience in Thailand. Not how it should be or what happened somewhere else. What is your experience with quotations in Thailand?

And to be clear, this is about professional companies and professional people. Not about Somchai says he can can do that.

 

[FriendlyFarang]

My girlfriend has her own business, she recently hired a marketing company (obviously all of their customers are professional customers).

The contract says: Marketing for 1 year. Price: 500k Baht.

They did of course talk quite a bit beforehand, but "Marketing" is all that is written in the contract, no details in the contract what so ever. If they would now do one Facebook post for her per month, they would satisfy the contract.

From my experience back home, such contracts would be several pages long, listing everything in detail.

No idea how anybody could sign such a contract, but she thinks it's alright, signed it and transferred the money. Let's see how it turns out...

 

For any higher values I would definitely insist on a detailed quotation, as would be common sense in western countries.

If the contract says "Everything included", and payment is due after the job is done, then I would also accept it, because then I'm the one who decides what "everything included" means, and if they didn't do "everything" I would deduct accordingly.

[stubuzz]

I just had a conversation with a tradesman. I told him what I wanted doing and I asked for a price for 2 separate jobs. I asked many questions which seemed to annoy my wife. Anyway, I agreed to let him do one of the jobs he quoted for, but he said he would only do the 2 jobs or nothing. I told him no, which caused my wife to get angry because I may of offended him. 

Just to add, the quote was vague and did not mention the kind of materials to be used.

Edited July 26, 2022 by stubuzz

[CharlieH]

Two magic words "as discussed" is the best I have ever got .

Another time, we had written contracts, fault clauses, completion dates, the whole nine yards, didnt stop him doing a runner ! ????

 

[Bill97]

What does your Project Manager say?

[digbeth]

Aircon from big box retailer or even aircon specialist with company and brick and mortar office/warehouse, they'd have fine print specifying how much in length copper pipes, electrical wiring switches and breakers is included with the 'free' installation, anything above their included 'free' you'd have to negotiate the extra cost incurred and for other niceties like conduit boxes

 

if they'd already taken a look at the installation and didn't ask for extra, the included installation fee should cover what you ask of them, a written quotation with details and drawings may be too much for them for a small project but can't hurt to go over the detail with them that you're on the same page

[OneMoreFarang]

8 hours ago, Bill97 said:

What does your Project Manager say?

Good questions.

I will see her today in person and we will talk about many details.

She knows already that I am demanding (her words) when it comes to details.

One of the good things about her is that she has a strong personality and she is used to construction people (and critical owners). It seems she is able to get things done.

 

I think from her point of view it's similar to this: "I know these AC/construction/whatever people since years and work with them since years. If they say they understand and do it like that this is good enough for me."

She trusts them because she works with them since a long time and knows they did good work.

 

I know her for many years and I trust her in general and I know she gets things done. This is why she is my project manager. But I am still used to "western"(?) contracts with lots of details. And if I ask a company who wants a job to list which material they will use and how much it cost and how much for labor and which labor that is then I think that is reasonable - at least from my experience mostly working with farangs.

I work in Thailand and I work often together with Thai people. But I guess in 90% of the cases their boss is a farang and he signs the more or less detailed contracts.

 

Let's look what she tells me today. I guess I will get some more details - not sure how many.

My gut feeling is that I am still better off if she recommends someone with a bad written quotation from a person/company she knows compared to a detailed quotation from someone new. Let's see.

[OneMoreFarang]

5 hours ago, digbeth said:

Aircon from big box retailer or even aircon specialist with company and brick and mortar office/warehouse, they'd have fine print specifying how much in length copper pipes, electrical wiring switches and breakers is included with the 'free' installation, anything above their included 'free' you'd have to negotiate the extra cost incurred and for other niceties like conduit boxes

 

if they'd already taken a look at the installation and didn't ask for extra, the included installation fee should cover what you ask of them, a written quotation with details and drawings may be too much for them for a small project but can't hurt to go over the detail with them that you're on the same page

I have to admit until now I looked at big box retailer companies only (mostly online) to look a their prices.

Staying with the AC project I know a big box company will install it so that it will work. But they won't put drainage pipes inside the walls, etc.

For the kind of installation which I want I am sure I pay extra. And I am willing to pay extra. But I prefer that those extras are in a written contract.

[Dante99]

56 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I think that is reasonable - at least from my experience mostly working with farangs.

But you are not working with farangs, far from it so that expectation is  not

 

reasonable.  

 

 

58 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I trust her in general

What does that mean?  You trust her in general but not in specifics?

[OneMoreFarang]

4 hours ago, Dante99 said:

What does that mean?  You trust her in general but not in specifics?

Until now I was never disappointed by her.

But I never renovated or built anything in Thailand and I never hired her or anybody else in Thailand in relation to construction work or management of such a project. So in theory it's possible that I could trust her with A but not with B. Or to say it in another way: I never asked her to keep a million THB cash for me for a week and look what happens. Probably she would give it back to me after that week. But would I bet on that? That's the reason for "in general". 

 

[rumak]

On 7/26/2022 at 7:06 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

Thanks in advance for your replies. It would be good if you talk about your actual experience in Thailand. Not how it should be or what happened somewhere else. What is your experience with quotations in Thailand?

MY EXPERIENCE  ( 10 houses over a 30 year period )  :

 

I started out knowing nothing... and expecting a lot.    Typical Farang mentality ( generally speaking)

 

I had no "project manager"  so some mistakes were made.   Job was still ok,  but relations with builder was bad.       Other following jobs i had a bit more "knowledge" .... was still kind of picky..

but realized that expecting a Swiss watch for the price of a Timex  was silly.

 

The last few houses i stopped worrying about perfection,  but was able to speak up when i saw something i did not like or wanted to ask a question.   The rest of the time i kept an eye on everything but stopped bothering the workers constantly.   They worked in a better mood and that is a lot less stressful !   The stress will kill you and make it all unpleasant.  IMO being demanding in the "farang way"  does not get better results.   Sometimes worse !  (not saying you should not stand up when you think that something is REALLY wrong )

 

Like in anything,  luck plays a part.   The actual PERSON doing the work generally is just Somchai. 

Some are very good.   Some not.    Some in between.  My experience helped me to get things done fairly well in the later houses.   But still not without some DRAMA .   Builders always seem to have some problem or do something not exactly as specified.    Try to stay on good terms with the "project mgr"  and let her handle things .   Stay cool or she might quit too      lol

 

Tiles were almost always very well done.   Kitchens and bathrooms of course are a bit more difficult.  Only real tip i have is to tap on the tiles ( especially counters) .  There should not be a hollow sound anywhere  (guess why ).  

 

 

 

Edited July 31, 2022 by rumak

[OneMoreFarang]

29 minutes ago, rumak said:

Try to stay on good terms with the "project mgr"  and let her handle things .   Stay cool or she might quit too      lol

Yes, that is what I learned already (in part). She is the most important person in that chain.

And I assured her already: Whatever I see, I will only talk to her, my project manager. Then she will talk to the contractor and the contractor will talk to the workers or the subcontractor.

I know that if I talk directly to the workers then that will best case not work and more likely will make the situation more difficult.

The good thing is that my project manager does this since years, including with "my" contractor. Likely I will sign the contract in the next days.

And then lets look how fast I see something which upsets me. Luckily I am long enough in Thailand that my expectations are somehow reasonable - at least I think so.

Let's see... 

[rumak]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And I assured her already: Whatever I see, I will only talk to her, my project manager. Then she will talk to the contractor and the contractor will talk to the workers or the subcontractor.

I know that if I talk directly to the workers then that will best case not work and more likely will make the situation more difficult.

Definitely will test your self control   hahahaha .      First one is always a btch.     Take a breath before

reacting !     You know all this   ????

 

good luck