China?

[Ruperts]

each time i am returning to Ho Chi Minh... as soon as i come out the airport... my heart beats

[chinthee]

I lived in Hong Kong for years, and have spent many more years doing business and traveling in most parts of China. I enjoy Chinese people generally, and I've seen and known a great deal of Chinese women who are strikingly beautiful. China is a great place to visit and do business.

I can't think of anyplace in China, outside of HK and Macau, that would even remotely be an option to the average person to Thailand, for many reasons, language among the foremost.

I'm quite surprised at the number of posters who comment on the numerous beauties in China. I just can't agree with this when comparing to Thailand. For goodlooking women Thailand (and Malaysia) have a worldwide reputation for good reason. There are many women in Thailand mixed with Chinese, which is a lovely appearance and in my opinion both full Thai and Thai Chinese beat pure Chinese hands down in the general beauty stakes. This is not trying to antagonise anyone, I'm genuinely surprised at posters who have commented on the % of beauties found in China.

If talking of pure numbers of beauties, I agree with you, nowhere compares with Thailand. Absolute best. One problem a lot of the Chinese girls seem to have is crooked teeth. Not sure the reason. In Vietnam, many of them have simply bad teeth, from betel nut or again, some other reason? Thai girls, for some reason, seem to have naturally good teeth, the most smooth hairfree skin mostly, and many other attractive features. For some other reason, as someone mentioned, many of the Chinese girls wear glasses, which again you don't see as much in Thailand.

[CarlBkk]

Crooked teeth is a real offput. The Thai smile is wonderful and a straight set of teeth makes it so much better. There is something about the Thai facial structure (especially in Isarn) where the two upper jaw teeth at each side sit at a different level in the gums than the other teeth, and tend to be overly pointed. They sometimes overlap neighbouring teeth. I have no idea why this trait prevails but you can regularly see it even when TV presenters smile.

[chinthee]

Crooked teeth is a real offput. The Thai smile is wonderful and a straight set of teeth makes it so much better. There is something about the Thai facial structure (especially in Isarn) where the two upper jaw teeth at each side sit at a different level in the gums than the other teeth, and tend to be overly pointed. They sometimes overlap neighbouring teeth. I have no idea why this trait prevails but you can regularly see it even when TV presenters smile.

I'll give you one last very funny quirk about Thai women, that even after 10 years in Thailand I never noticed. One day a foreign business partner and I were walking along Silom at lunchtime. It was his first time in Thailand. He was silent and was looking down a lot. Suddenly, he turns to me and says "you know I've been looking at all the Thai women's feet for the past few blocks, and as they mostly all wear open toes I have to say, I've never seen an entire race where the women all had ROUND bulbous toes!" I nearly died laughing, as I had noticed this on my own wife but never put two and two together. Then, I started looking at this every day, and you know what? He's right. Many, many of them have round big toes especially. Try it yourself if you haven't noticed.

[LaoPo]

How much of an advantage do people think learning Mandarin may prove to be in the future? The Chinese do seem to be taking over the world, somewhat.

I like the idea of settling in China, but I've never been there, so I'm going to go and do a 2-month Mandarin course in one of the cities and just see what happens.

I've heard reports of Westeners who can speak a bit of Mandarin getting very nice jobs in businesses over there.

Major advantage!

There are quite a few Westerners speaking Mandarin. If you have the opportunity just do it.

If you would speak it well you can get any job with a Western company...or Chinese.

LaoPo

[chinthee]

How much of an advantage do people think learning Mandarin may prove to be in the future? The Chinese do seem to be taking over the world, somewhat.

I like the idea of settling in China, but I've never been there, so I'm going to go and do a 2-month Mandarin course in one of the cities and just see what happens.

I've heard reports of Westeners who can speak a bit of Mandarin getting very nice jobs in businesses over there.

Major advantage!

There are quite a few Westerners speaking Mandarin. If you have the opportunity just do it.

If you would speak it well you can get any job with a Western company...or Chinese.

LaoPo

Agree. Most important language in the world to learn, after of course, English.

[CarlBkk]

Crooked teeth is a real offput. The Thai smile is wonderful and a straight set of teeth makes it so much better. There is something about the Thai facial structure (especially in Isarn) where the two upper jaw teeth at each side sit at a different level in the gums than the other teeth, and tend to be overly pointed. They sometimes overlap neighbouring teeth. I have no idea why this trait prevails but you can regularly see it even when TV presenters smile.

I'll give you one last very funny quirk about Thai women, that even after 10 years in Thailand I never noticed. One day a foreign business partner and I were walking along Silom at lunchtime. It was his first time in Thailand. He was silent and was looking down a lot. Suddenly, he turns to me and says "you know I've been looking at all the Thai women's feet for the past few blocks, and as they mostly all wear open toes I have to say, I've never seen an entire race where the women all had ROUND bulbous toes!" I nearly died laughing, as I had noticed this on my own wife but never put two and two together. Then, I started looking at this every day, and you know what? He's right. Many, many of them have round big toes especially. Try it yourself if you haven't noticed.

I'm going to take a good close look (not too close though) and embarrass a few!

[LaoPo]

Crooked teeth is a real offput. The Thai smile is wonderful and a straight set of teeth makes it so much better. There is something about the Thai facial structure (especially in Isarn) where the two upper jaw teeth at each side sit at a different level in the gums than the other teeth, and tend to be overly pointed. They sometimes overlap neighbouring teeth. I have no idea why this trait prevails but you can regularly see it even when TV presenters smile.

I'll give you one last very funny quirk about Thai women, that even after 10 years in Thailand I never noticed. One day a foreign business partner and I were walking along Silom at lunchtime. It was his first time in Thailand. He was silent and was looking down a lot. Suddenly, he turns to me and says "you know I've been looking at all the Thai women's feet for the past few blocks, and as they mostly all wear open toes I have to say, I've never seen an entire race where the women all had ROUND bulbous toes!" I nearly died laughing, as I had noticed this on my own wife but never put two and two together. Then, I started looking at this every day, and you know what? He's right. Many, many of them have round big toes especially. Try it yourself if you haven't noticed.

I'm going to take a good close look (not too close though) and embarrass a few!

'Round' Big Toes......????

Are you sure it's not related to the guy on the Bike in your Avatar ?

LaoPo

[meemiathai]

Note: one of the posters mentioned that corruption in China is bigger than Thailand....well, read the news. They put even high-so people in jail for a long term or even give them the death penalty for corruption.

Thailand is 'soft' on corruption in comparison to China!

LaoPo

China & Corruption...:

"China widens net to stifle corruption

(Reuters)

Updated: 2007-06-20 14:06

BEIJING - The number of officials investigated for abuse of power in China has risen by nearly 10 percent so far this year as part of a drive to rein in corruption, Chinese media reported on Wednesday.

The Beijing Youth Daily said that anti-corruption investigators probed 3,470 government officials involved in 2,808 cases of abuse of office in the first five months of 2007. Nearly half the cases involved serious abuses of office.

The crackdown comes as President Hu Jintao seeks to root out corruption by decrying government extravagance and abuses.

"In 2007, apart from problems which drew strong public reaction such as food and drug safety, hygiene, damage to land resources and the environment, investigating authorities also gave priority to the trend of frequent major safety accidents," the paper quoted Chen Lianfu, a senior prosecutor, as saying.

More than 800 police and judicial officials had been probed this year for abuses of power, including illegal detention, torturing of detainees and "lax law enforcement", Chen said. "

Source: Reuters.

LaoPo

Dear LaoPo,

I am not quite sure by posting that, you are trying to say China is not very corrupted or the other way round. What are you trying to say?

You say you do business in China, and you have not experienced corruption? I guess you are either in a position where all the corruption has been taken care of by someone else or you are just well protected by very good connections. Or maybe it your very area which is not as corrupted.

Corruption is everyday life. Police walk in to your office and tell you it is chinese new year and demand a few red packets(money). They change policies every few months to extort money.

Women are treated like shit! Human lives are treated like shit!

And don't tell me you believe in what the Chinese Newspapers says? They don't even tell you anything about the June 4th Massacre! Ask some ordinary Chinese people if they knew what happened in the 4th of June, 1989. Every thing is a bloody show.

[Tinkelbell]

How much of an advantage do people think learning Mandarin may prove to be in the future? The Chinese do seem to be taking over the world, somewhat.

I like the idea of settling in China, but I've never been there, so I'm going to go and do a 2-month Mandarin course in one of the cities and just see what happens.

I've heard reports of Westeners who can speak a bit of Mandarin getting very nice jobs in businesses over there.

Major advantage!

There are quite a few Westerners speaking Mandarin. If you have the opportunity just do it.

If you would speak it well you can get any job with a Western company...or Chinese.

LaoPo

Agree. Most important language in the world to learn, after of course, English.

When I was in Guanzhou during chinese new year on Jan. '07. On the local morning post (printed in English), there was a very interesting news about a hugh shortage of workers who are bi-lingual (chinese&english). Because of China is booming. Thousands of western families had set-up their housekeepers there. They need a household staffs like; nanny, cook, gardenner, cleaner, chauffeur..etc. The pay is very good, as much as a newly college grad makes. At first, they got their staffs from a regular employment office, but things did not turn out to their expectations dued to the lack of proficiency of their hired helps.

That's how the concept of hiring newly grads comes into work.

At the time of reading, there are thousands of college students have gone into intensive training to fill up over 20,000 positions. It shouldn't take long, just a few months for these prospected employees to master the tasks around the house and passable understanding english.

[JR Texas]

How much of an advantage do people think learning Mandarin may prove to be in the future? The Chinese do seem to be taking over the world, somewhat.

I like the idea of settling in China, but I've never been there, so I'm going to go and do a 2-month Mandarin course in one of the cities and just see what happens.

I've heard reports of Westeners who can speak a bit of Mandarin getting very nice jobs in businesses over there.

Major advantage!

There are quite a few Westerners speaking Mandarin. If you have the opportunity just do it.

If you would speak it well you can get any job with a Western company...or Chinese.

LaoPo

Agree. Most important language in the world to learn, after of course, English.

When I was in Guanzhou during chinese new year on Jan. '07. On the local morning post (printed in English), there was a very interesting news about a hugh shortage of workers who are bi-lingual (chinese&english). Because of China is booming. Thousands of western families had set-up their housekeepers there. They need a household staffs like; nanny, cook, gardenner, cleaner, chauffeur..etc. The pay is very good, as much as a newly college grad makes. At first, they got their staffs from a regular employment office, but things did not turn out to their expectations dued to the lack of proficiency of their hired helps.

That's how the concept of hiring newly grads comes into work.

At the time of reading, there are thousands of college students have gone into intensive training to fill up over 20,000 positions. It shouldn't take long, just a few months for these prospected employees to master the tasks around the house and passable understanding english.

JR Texas: Most of the views here seem extremely negative.......it makes me wonder whether the posters have actually been to China. Here is a different perspective......I have lived in China for about one year, in the north and south.

First, like all places, there are good and bad places to live in China. China is a huge country, about the same size as Russia and the USA.

Second, there are outstanding places to live in China that are superior to anything Thailand has to offer: Dalian in the north, for example, is a nice place surrounded by the ocean. Zhuhai, in the south and right across from Macau, is a very nice place.....clean city with nice parks....mountains on one side and the ocean on the other......much cleaner than any city in Thailand.

Third, the food is outstanding in many places in China.......wonderful food (I like the southern food better than the northern food)....how any person can say Thai food is better mystifies me........the variety of food in China is huge.

Fourth, in China you can find gorgeous mountain ranges and even deserts.......also you have the ocean and wonderful lakes and rivers, etc. You can find cool weather....one city is known for its perpetual Spring weather. Thailand is simply hot and humid and miserable most of the year.

Fifth, the Chinese people are, for the most part, very kind. The girls are also kind and many are both smart and gorgeous....I can't believe some of the stupid comments posted here about Chinese girls. And, for the record, virtually all of the so-called Karaoke Bars are places where men can meet women.......you know what I mean.......they are all over China. As an aside, Zhuhai even has its own Walking Street and it is much nicer than anything in Thailand. Reality check!

Sixth, the government is far more efficient than the Thai government and the visa/business rules actually make sense.....much easier to get a work permit, for example, in China than in Thailand. So simple and inexpensive and logical.....no leaving the country to do this and that and the other thing....no 90 day reporting.

Seventh, the system of education in China is far superior to anything in Thailand.......Thailand's top universities can't even remotely compete with China's top universities........and many universities in China are gorgeous places to be.......I was at two of them.

Finally, China's economy is far superior to Thailand.....no comparison....China is far more developed than Thailand.

Get real........I think this thread is dominated by the love Thailand or leave it crowd.

[jackspratt]

JR Texas: Most of the views here seem extremely negative.......it makes me wonder whether the posters have actually been to China. Here is a different perspective......I have lived in China for about one year, in the north and south.

First, like all places, there are good and bad places to live in China. China is a huge country, about the same size as Russia and the USA.

Second, there are outstanding places to live in China that are superior to anything Thailand has to offer: Dalian in the north, for example, is a nice place surrounded by the ocean. Zhuhai, in the south and right across from Macau, is a very nice place.....clean city with nice parks....mountains on one side and the ocean on the other......much cleaner than any city in Thailand.

Third, the food is outstanding in many places in China.......wonderful food (I like the southern food better than the northern food)....how any person can say Thai food is better mystifies me........the variety of food in China is huge.

Fourth, in China you can find gorgeous mountain ranges and even deserts.......also you have the ocean and wonderful lakes and rivers, etc. You can find cool weather....one city is known for its perpetual Spring weather. Thailand is simply hot and humid and miserable most of the year.

Fifth, the Chinese people are, for the most part, very kind. The girls are also kind and many are both smart and gorgeous....I can't believe some of the stupid comments posted here about Chinese girls. And, for the record, virtually all of the so-called Karaoke Bars are places where men can meet women.......you know what I mean.......they are all over China. As an aside, Zhuhai even has its own Walking Street and it is much nicer than anything in Thailand. Reality check!

Sixth, the government is far more efficient than the Thai government and the visa/business rules actually make sense.....much easier to get a work permit, for example, in China than in Thailand. So simple and inexpensive and logical.....no leaving the country to do this and that and the other thing....no 90 day reporting.

Seventh, the system of education in China is far superior to anything in Thailand.......Thailand's top universities can't even remotely compete with China's top universities........and many universities in China are gorgeous places to be.......I was at two of them.

Finally, China's economy is far superior to Thailand.....no comparison....China is far more developed than Thailand.

Get real........I think this thread is dominated by the love Thailand or leave it crowd.

Hear, hear! JR

Having lived in Beijing for over 3 years, and now in Thailand, your comments and observations are far closer to my experience of China than most of the other (negative) posts.

Of course it (specifically Beijing) has problems (mainly the pollution) but is certainly a vibrant, rich and rewarding place to live. If I wasn't happily ensconced in the warm bosom of my tilak, I would certainly be back in Peking.

[skippybangkok]

I am regularly in China, few weeks at a time. In general the women there are quite on the nose ( shanghai ) and i have a very bad sense of smell.

From some of the staff coming in the office, they will wear the same cloths for 3 or 4 days - un-heard of in thailand.

[PeaceBlondie]

I've only been twice to China, as a tourist to Shanghai, accompanied by my best friend, a native of Shanghai. He jokes that the ugly Chinese girls have to go to the West because no man will take them in China, but that the Chinese men have a different concept of beautiful women. I didn't notice, but I can certify that the men didn't smell bad 'down there.'

Thanks to JR Texas for pointing out the educational advantages in China. Perhaps more Chinese wear eyeglasses because they're more serious about studying than looking blindingly gorgeous.

The differences between China and Thailand are just too immense to compare the countries easily, I think. I suspect that Westerners are overly impressed with the sheer size of the population of China, which appears to be overwhelmingly, desperately poor. Are we to be impressed by countless foot soldiers, and peasants on bicycles? As an economic power, China has a long way to go, although they appear to be progressing far more energetically than the Thais are.

As for Mandarin, the writing system is too challenging. It takes their own students many years to become literate. As for food, well, I can't stand Thai food, and my Thai boyfriend says the food he cooks for me is "Chinese style." I prefer warm climates, and nothing north of Hainan Island would suit me. I already live where I don't understand the language; China wouldn't be different in that regard. I'll stay in Thailand.

[meemiathai]

JR,

I am sure there are a lot of good things on the surface in China. And yes I am sure the education system is much better than in Thailand. But we are talking about 1.2 billion people. Is it that difficult to build a beautiful outlook for the world to see with that man power?

Chinese in general are quite intelligent people. But the problem they have is most are very selfish and short sighted. They are the type that will kill the goose to get the golden eggs.

I suppose you as a farang(laowai) and working as a university professor(I guess), you won't have a lot of problems. But I think I saw you say you don't like to see people suffer. So are you saying that you think generally the average thais suffer a lot more than the average chinese?

I admit I have never lived in China but I have been living here in HK for 38 yrs. I have a lot of friends living and doing business in China. One friend does big business in China and complained a lot to me how seriously corrupted it is. I asked her why do you still do it, her answer is because she still makes fortunes after paying tea money. Guess how the money is generated. From the less protected people.

I have spent a good amount of time with mainland chinese women. Yes, most have bad teeth. And talk about cleaniness, they are no comparison to thai women!!! Thai women are money grabbers? Try chinese women! I am not bashing them though. They are actually good in nature, but it is a bloody human jungle in China. Like lions, hyenas, wild dogs, people eat people there.

I have of course been to those karaoke places. And women there are treated by chinese men like shit. You would not know if you don't have a good imagination of how evil human beings can be.

By the way, my mother and sister in law went together with my wife to Beijing last month. They threw up inside a toilet because it was too dirty!

I would like to learn more from you, JR.

Oh yes, I haven't even started talking about the faked stuff. You can get faked soy sauce, faked eggs and faked food using industrial material. So better watch what you put into your mouth. Lots of people are killed by food poison.

[chinthee]

It's immediately apparent from reading this thread who knows China and who doesn't. Read Meemiathai's contributions and some others. Generally, you can say overwhelmingly, that Thailand is much more suitable for the average farang. Unless you have a job or business reason to live there, most chose not to. I even have long time Chinese friends who keep an apartment in Beijing to return for business, but prefer to live abroad once they get their overseas visas or passports, only visiting for business. Again, many Chinese have returned to make big money, but very few choose to live there for any kind of quality of life. Ask them. They're all there to make money or because of job transfers.

[Naam]

As for the poster who posted that Chinese women smell different, he should start dating women who bathe daily.

:D

[JR Texas]

As for the poster who posted that Chinese women smell different, he should start dating women who bathe daily.

:D

JR Texas: Yes, soap........wonder what the women readers are thinking.....jeeezzz....talk about stink....there was this one guy................. :D

Anyway.......I wanted to counter some of the criticisms that I found to be unfair. Yes, I am a professor and was treated first class (at a top university in China). So, my perspective is a bit skewed.

Readers should take note that the economy in Thailand is dominated by Thai-Chinese......so, really, there is not that much difference at that level.

Corruption? Give me a break! Both countries--Thailand and China--have a corporate-political-military triangle of power.....both countries are corrupt (so is the USA).

Censorship? Give me a break again! Yes, it is more "in your face" in China, but both countries practice censorship (so does the USA). Why? Because they are terrified that the masses will get wise and start demanding a better life.......maybe throw out the rascals that are exploiting them.

Sanook factor: I will give the edge to Thailand, for now. But you can live a good life in China if you are located in the right place. They are serious, hard working people......but they love to have fun....all the time going out in groups and eating and drinking........

I suspect many people are looking for alternatives to LOS, so here is a short list:

Cambodia: Sihanoukville

China: Dalian, Zhuhai, Sanya, Kunming

Vietnam: Nha Trang, Dalat

Panama: Boqueta

[notasmartassknowitallfarag]

I have been offered a place in university in europe to study chinese with international business,1 year study in china,i heard of many people saying in a few years china will be 1 of the big powerhouse's of the world so i would get a good paying job there.?but i prefer thailand much more and would prefer to learn thai but that would not get me any job now would it. i find some of the chinese people rude in shanghai(smoking beside u in the internet cafe) and i dont see as near as many smiles as in thailand? oh and costomer service is the worst i have ever seen ( they grab the money from u) i think learning the language of a country u dont like just to get a well paid job is not right, so i will consider my options.

[nonthaburial]

I was a constant business visitor to China in the late 80's - middle 90's, travelling all over as a service Engineer for a UK based Fire truck manufacturer. Those were the days when it was not unknown to fly domestically and find no seat belts or a small pig/chickens in the overhead lockers.

The days when "Gweilo" were looked down upon, the days of the Mao jackets and boring baggy clothing worn by the female population, the days when the security police insisted of checking your hotel room at 3am to ensure than none of the nations female population were sharing your hard lumpy mattress. The days of foreigners not being able to change foreign currency into Yuan, but having to settle for what was described as Chinas tourist money, which the locals were not allowed to obtain.

Being able to converse to the locals - hahaha come off it, they werent allowed to talk to foreigners. Yes the China of the past - and its obvious fellow posters on here were never there during those years.

After each journey landing back at dear old Kai Tak airport or crossing the border bridge at Lo Wu was a huge relief, I promised myself that I would never ever go back to the PRC again. Those promises were broken time and time again until 1995 when I was given alternative territory to break in!

So its been 12 years since I went to the PRC last, until last month when I had a business trip to Kunming. My God, was this the same China that I visited so often so many years ago, total change, beautifully dressed girls, polite people,clean and green city with wonderful food. fantastic weather. English speaking shop/hotel staff

How times have changed, and I can assure you if I were 20 years younger I would be learning Mandarin and getting my feet under the table.

Dont knock it unless you have seen a lot of China and how the present time has seen China change and grow into a nice country with mostly nice people.

[LaoPo]

WOW..this thread is becoming real interesting!

It's impossible to answer all posters but I suppose a lot of the comments are correct and some are partly, or incorrect, but it's ALL to the posters' own expeiences.

As for corruption: of course there's still a lot of corruption around in China. In my previous post I just wanted to show with the article that the government is becoming more and more harsh on corruption and the punishments are severe...very severe, especially for -semi- government officials.

I just think that corruption is more of a top priority in China than it is in Thailand.

Personally I never experienced corruption but that doesn't say it's not there of course.

We shouldn' forget that 20-30 years ago China was a 'closed' country; China suffered almost 100 years from it's 'emperors-new-style' so to speak and the people were deadly poor and really suffering. Seen it myself, coming to China for 30 years...

In a time we were all free and living (most of us) in democratic countries we really had no idea how bad the situation was in China.

I know this first hand from my own wife (& family-in-law), who, as a young teenager even had to work on the countryside to help with the harvesting of crops. The funny thing however is that she has no bad thoughts about this towards the local/provincial or state governments; on the contrary, she enjoyed it in a way, being away from the busy and poor city life.

The housing conditions were awful, without airconditiong or heating; having to share poor bath & toilet facilities; even NOW there are thousands, maybe millions of apartment buildings, going up as much as 10 floors, WITHOUT an elevator...can anyone imagine that ?

I personally know of a top (female) manager who shares a bedroom with someone else, living on the 7th floor, without an elevator; without a fridge; without airconditiong; without a proper kitchen in Shenzhen (Hong Kong border) where it's bloody hot and humid.

Give China some time...they've come a long way and the only thing they want is to work hard and try to improve their life-style a bit !

A life-style we're all so used to have...

We are spoiled and forgot how good a life most of us have; that includes myself!

There is no previous example, worldwide, of a country and it's people that 'jumped' on the fastmoving train of development and economic power as China with it's 1.3 billion people.

What they've achieved in 20-30 years is stunningly impressive but it comes with a lot of pain, growth pain, and since there is/was no previous example of HOW to do all this we can't do more than just watch it and have a little compassion with it's people.

A lot of -press- articles in the West write negativ about China but IMHO it's also fear...fear for the unknown.

BUT, a famous saying "If you can't beat them, join them' would be a wise thing to do.

The Far East has more than 60% of the WORLD population. We better join them; not fight them.

LaoPo

[WaiWai]

There is no previous example, worldwide, of a country and it's people that 'jumped' on the fastmoving train of development and economic power as China with it's 1.3 billion people.

What they've achieved in 20-30 years is stunningly impressive but it comes with a lot of pain, growth pain,

& unfortunately, a terrible amount of pollution of the natural environment.

I agree that mainland China would seem to suffer less from corruption than other countries in the general vicinity, including Thailand.

[chinthee]

There is no previous example, worldwide, of a country and it's people that 'jumped' on the fastmoving train of development and economic power as China with it's 1.3 billion people.

What they've achieved in 20-30 years is stunningly impressive but it comes with a lot of pain, growth pain,

& unfortunately, a terrible amount of pollution of the natural environment.

I agree that mainland China would seem to suffer less from corruption than other countries in the general vicinity, including Thailand.

As a young man, I started my first business in China in 1985. I continue to this day to travel there at least 2-3 times/yr.. The Chinese government has done a lot to crack down on large and visible corruption, and it has paid dividends. However, today the corruption is much more veiled, but still palpable. For example, instead of a cash payment, one may be "asked" to help out to place someone's child in a US university, with all the attendant 4-year responsibilites that may entail.

Edited June 24, 2007 by chinthee

[LaoPo]

There is no previous example, worldwide, of a country and it's people that 'jumped' on the fastmoving train of development and economic power as China with it's 1.3 billion people.

What they've achieved in 20-30 years is stunningly impressive but it comes with a lot of pain, growth pain,

& unfortunately, a terrible amount of pollution of the natural environment.

I agree that mainland China would seem to suffer less from corruption than other countries in the general vicinity, including Thailand.

I agree and unfortunately that's inherent to the fast growing economical situation.

However, with a population of 300 million, just 25% of China's population, the US is still by far the largest pollutor on earth, being the most powerful and one of the richest nations on earth at the same time...

It will be a big challenge for China & India as well as the US and a lot of other nations to preserve the earth for our future generations.

LaoPo

[chinthee]

There is no previous example, worldwide, of a country and it's people that 'jumped' on the fastmoving train of development and economic power as China with it's 1.3 billion people.

What they've achieved in 20-30 years is stunningly impressive but it comes with a lot of pain, growth pain,

& unfortunately, a terrible amount of pollution of the natural environment.

I agree that mainland China would seem to suffer less from corruption than other countries in the general vicinity, including Thailand.

I agree and unfortunately that's inherent to the fast growing economical situation.

However, with a population of 300 million, just 25% of China's population, the US is still by far the largest pollutor on earth, being the most powerful and one of the richest nations on earth at the same time...

It will be a big challenge for China & India as well as the US and a lot of other nations to preserve the earth for our future generations.

LaoPo

It's interesting if you want to bring India into the discussion. Many people in India consider their democratic legacy left by the British to now be one of their biggest handicaps in catching or overtaking China. The leadership in China has a growing free wheeling economy, but is not held accountable for environmental excess by its populace or anyone else.

[LaoPo]

There is no previous example, worldwide, of a country and it's people that 'jumped' on the fastmoving train of development and economic power as China with it's 1.3 billion people.

What they've achieved in 20-30 years is stunningly impressive but it comes with a lot of pain, growth pain,

& unfortunately, a terrible amount of pollution of the natural environment.

I agree that mainland China would seem to suffer less from corruption than other countries in the general vicinity, including Thailand.

I agree and unfortunately that's inherent to the fast growing economical situation.

However, with a population of 300 million, just 25% of China's population, the US is still by far the largest pollutor on earth, being the most powerful and one of the richest nations on earth at the same time...

It will be a big challenge for China & India as well as the US and a lot of other nations to preserve the earth for our future generations.

LaoPo

It's interesting if you want to bring India into the discussion. Many people in India consider their democratic legacy left by the British to now be one of their biggest handicaps in catching or overtaking China.

The leadership in China has a growing free wheeling economy, but is not held accountable for environmental excess by its populace or anyone else.

1. sorry for bringing India into the discussion; I should have mentioned: 'Far East' with it's more than 60% of the worlds' population.

2. I'm not sure if I follow your last sentence....

LaoPo

[chinthee]

There is no previous example, worldwide, of a country and it's people that 'jumped' on the fastmoving train of development and economic power as China with it's 1.3 billion people.

What they've achieved in 20-30 years is stunningly impressive but it comes with a lot of pain, growth pain,

& unfortunately, a terrible amount of pollution of the natural environment.

I agree that mainland China would seem to suffer less from corruption than other countries in the general vicinity, including Thailand.

I agree and unfortunately that's inherent to the fast growing economical situation.

However, with a population of 300 million, just 25% of China's population, the US is still by far the largest pollutor on earth, being the most powerful and one of the richest nations on earth at the same time...

It will be a big challenge for China & India as well as the US and a lot of other nations to preserve the earth for our future generations.

LaoPo

It's interesting if you want to bring India into the discussion. Many people in India consider their democratic legacy left by the British to now be one of their biggest handicaps in catching or overtaking China.

The leadership in China has a growing free wheeling economy, but is not held accountable for environmental excess by its populace or anyone else.

1. sorry for bringing India into the discussion; I should have mentioned: 'Far East' with it's more than 60% of the worlds' population.

2. I'm not sure if I follow your last sentence....

LaoPo

Simply I meant that Chinese leadership can pass environmental legislation almost by fiat. They are not held accountable to democratically elected concerns. It means that if they want pro-growth, environmentally unfriendly policies they can pursue them quicker and without opposition unlike India.

[WaiWai]

I agree and unfortunately that's inherent to the fast growing economical situation.

However, with a population of 300 million, just 25% of China's population, the US is still by far the largest pollutor on earth, being the most powerful and one of the richest nations on earth at the same time...

Indeed.

Awareness of the seriousness of the pollution problem is starting to emerge in China but still the flagrancy of the disgregard for the natural environment is sometimes staggering. Pollution of the most overt and obvious kinds is often taken for granted/deemed inevitable. Everyone wants to own a car, even though most people can see how quickly the car problem is getting out of hand. Children in cities are often seriously disconncetd from the natural world, and are terrified of harmless insects & even small domestic animals. Some do not believe the sky is blue in other places.

(And maybe these things are true of other countries, too ...)

[WaiWai]

The leadership in China has a growing free wheeling economy, but is not held accountable for environmental excess by its populace or anyone else.

True. They can make money without caring about the effects because they can afford to send their families elsewhere.

[meemiathai]

Corruption? Give me a break! Both countries--Thailand and China--have a corporate-political-military triangle of power.....both countries are corrupt (so is the USA).

I almost passed out! Dear JR, you are comparing the US with China and Thailand in terms of corruption? Have you been to the US? I haven't.

I think you can say swimming in a swimming pool with bull sharks is no different than swimming in the sea for there are sharks too.

Are you an honest person?(no disrespect) Or do you just don't know what you are talking about but wanted to show off a bit?

Censorship? Give me a break again! Yes, it is more "in your face" in China, but both countries practice censorship (so does the USA). Why? Because they are terrified that the masses will get wise and start demanding a better life.......maybe throw out the rascals that are exploiting them.

Try bringing the wrong newspaper which you can get in HK into China and see what happens. Why not ask your students at class if they knew anything about the June 4th Tiananman Square Massacre?

See if you are going to get into trouble? I do warn you though. But since you say it is no different from the US, I guess you won't think it is a problem.

Corruption is not really a big problem if it is just about money. But the problem is it involves abuses of human rights. People get killed. People suffer immensely.

I am not critizing the Chinese government at all. In fact I think they have done very very good already. We are talking about 1.2 or 1.3 billion of mostly selfish people and it is impossible work for anyone to govern it. I am not saying all chinese are bad, it is just a bit sad to see their nature being so selfish, greedy and cruel to their own kind.

Dear LaoPo, being poor is not necessarily sufferings. But being bullied and humiliated by the more powerful people is. It is quite ironic seeing corrupted officials cracking down on corrupted officials. It is merely a show, the more powerful killing the less powerful.

By the way, 4 days in Beijing and my home now has faked coins and paper notes. (Reminbi)

I wonder what it is going to be like in the 2008 Beijing Olympics. But I think everything is going to be fine. The communist are really good if they want something to be achieved. They will just have to make sure everyone knows that anyone who makes our country lose face will be going to hel_l. We will than have a faked Beijing for a month or so. Everything will be swept under the carpet.