26 minutes ago, connda said:

One the flip side?  Natural gas won't cost 4+ times the price that the common folk in the EU will be paying, if they get gas at all. 

OTOH ng will be available and not at four X the cost in North America. The European situation is unique. They let the Germans determine their energy policy. And the Germans were in the pocket of the Russians. It's going to cost Europeans to rectify that situation--or forever be puppets on Putin's strings.

13 minutes ago, John Drake said:

OTOH ng will be available and not at four X the cost in North America. The European situation is unique. They let the Germans determine their energy policy. And the Germans were in the pocket of the Russians. It's going to cost Europeans to rectify that situation--or forever be puppets on Putin's strings.

Completely true facts. Germans opposed Ukraine in joining NATO, that is one of the reason th war have started/

Any country sporting russian military junk must be nervous about others who have western kit

 

Ukraine unfortunately has been a weapons test and show grounds and what wins will benefit those who supplied.

So sorry so many have given there lives the world owes them for showing the Russians for what they really are worse than isis imho

34 minutes ago, anandra said:

I tell you, during first days of the war, when the ukrainians captured a russian tank, they were shocked to see wooden stool instead of the usual seat inside the tank, It was all on tv

You were lied to, it was a stolen toilet! The entire floor of the tank was filled with stolen nutella... How else? Russians live in the 17th century and never seen blessed western chocolate LMAO

3 hours ago, JoseThailand said:

 

Every day another $1bn flows into Russia from oil and gas exports

 

And in whose pockets do you think most (if not all) of that $1bn a day will flow?

Edited September 11, 20223 yr by rudi49jr

38 minutes ago, tomyami said:

Any country sporting russian military junk must be nervous about others who have western kit

 

Ukraine unfortunately has been a weapons test and show grounds and what wins will benefit those who supplied.

So sorry so many have given there lives the world owes them for showing the Russians for what they really are worse than isis imho

One big loser is China, whose aircraft and missile systems are not even of Russian quality but Chinese copies of Russian designs. Nothing like seeing state of the art Russian military equipment blown to pieces by 30+ year old American HIMARS and the like. Meanwhile, the biggest winner of the war might be Taiwan, which is much more advanced than Ukraine. China looking to invade Taiwan with Russian military thinking and technology might be having second thoughts.

"The first casualty of war is Truth."

That applies to all sides engaged in the conflict.  No side is exempt.  And the target of deliberately twisted fact?  The public, on all sides.

Maybe they do have brains here and not follow the leaders of the pack 

16 hours ago, anandra said:

 The soviets and nazi germany were allies in the beginnig, Great Britain started the war in 1939, wHILE the soviets hold the parades with fascist Germany army. Just have a look at the parade in Brest, nazis with the soviet army . Serach in wiki

https://www.ushmm.org/learn/timeline-of-events/1939-1941/german-invasion-of-poland

 

Actually Germany started WW2 by invading Poland.

 

"

Germany invades Poland, initiating World War II in Europe.

German forces broke through Polish defenses along the border and quickly advanced on Warsaw, the Polish capital. Hundreds of thousands of refugees, both Jewish and non-Jewish, fled the German advance hoping the Polish army could halt the German advance. But, after heavy shelling and bombing, Warsaw surrendered to the Germans within a month of the German attack.  Soviet forces quickly annexed most of eastern Poland, while western Poland remained under German occupation until 1945.

 

Britain and France, standing by their guarantee of Poland's border, declared war on Germany on September 3, 1939.

 

While Germany invaded western Poland, Russia attacked and invaded eastern Poland.

 

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/soviet-union-invades-poland#:~:text=On September 17%2C 1939%2C Soviet,and occupation of eastern Poland.

THIS DAY IN HISTORY
SEPTEMBER 17
1939
September 17
Soviet Union invades Poland
On September 17, 1939, Soviet Foreign Minister Vyacheslav Molotov declares that the Polish government has ceased to exist, as the U.S.S.R. exercises the “fine print” of the Hitler-Stalin Non-aggression pact—the invasion and occupation of eastern Poland.

 

Little did Poles know that a secret clause of that pact, the details of which would not become public until 1990, gave the U.S.S.R. the right to mark off for itself a chunk of Poland’s eastern region. The “reason” given was that Russia had to come to the aid of its “blood brothers,” the Ukrainians and Byelorussians, who were trapped in territory that had been illegally annexed by Poland.

15 hours ago, placeholder said:

. I'm sure from a Russian point of view it has always made sense to take Odesa. So what's been standing in their way? What stood in their way that kept them from taking Kiev?

Russia could take Kiev in a day. but under what price? what price of death toll?

if they would go with the full force,you would be having 100 of tousend death. Its not the Goal to terminated ukrainians. its a brother  population, and they want keep numbers of civilian caculties low.

and if they would use full force to reach the goal , they would be banned and excluded from the international commnity for long long time, whats even not the Goal of russia.

Civil casulitys in ukraine at  aprox 7000-10000 depend on source , is quiet low  for a war like that.how many ivilian casultys the US or more bad the nazis leaving behind, when they invaded a country?

5 minutes ago, lapamita said:

Russia could take Kiev in a day. but under what price? what price of death toll?

if they would go with the full force,you would be having 100 of tousend death. Its not the Goal to terminated ukrainians. its a brother  population, and they want keep numbers of civilian caculties low.

and if they would use full force to reach the goal , they would be banned and excluded from the international commnity for long long time, whats even not the Goal of russia.

Civil casulitys in ukraine at  aprox 7000-10000 depend on source , is quiet low  for a war like that.how many ivilian casultys the US or more bad the nazis leaving behind, when they invaded a country?

I believe you are truly confused. They could not take Kyiv at any cost....

4 hours ago, JoseThailand said:

Don't believe Western propaganda.

So whose propaganda do YOU believe?

2 hours ago, anandra said:

Money flow only to putin and company, people live in extreme poverty, whole regions  have no gas, people live in wooden barracks, half destroyed appartments with wooden toilets outside. Russian rouble is not strong, you just cannot exchange it anywhere. Sober up my friend, You have nothing to say to those people who know what is really going on in russia. People in russia are always on their knees in front of putin, like in north korea, and this is biggest difference between russians and ukrainians. putin is turning russians into meat in Ukraine.

so many untrue in one post.  cant change roubles  hey  maybe in your area.  but here you can change in any corner and can take money of atms up to 10000 usd limit ( limit still in until end of september  and may extended by russia)

you ever traveled to russia ? NO you ever had a lot of ruissan friends ? NO  they living like north korea ..............ok stop it now

My last travels in january and nov 21 was torward the far east ,not moscow or petersburg ,where situtaion even better. ask talk to russians ,maybe outside russia , to avoid " north korea" and you will be surprised how many people stay strongly by putin.and during 2014 he was getting stronger,same as now

7 minutes ago, lapamita said:

Russia could take Kiev in a day. but under what price? what price of death toll?

if they would go with the full force,you would be having 100 of tousend death. Its not the Goal to terminated ukrainians. its a brother  population, and they want keep numbers of civilian caculties low.

and if they would use full force to reach the goal , they would be banned and excluded from the international commnity for long long time, whats even not the Goal of russia.

Civil casulitys in ukraine at  aprox 7000-10000 depend on source , is quiet low  for a war like that.how many ivilian casultys the US or more bad the nazis leaving behind, when they invaded a country?

You must be watching a lot of RT, or other Russian state controlled media outlets, if you actually believe all that propaganda tripe you’re posting. 

3 hours ago, placeholder said:

The reason the Russian ruble is strong right now is that Russians can't buy vital goods from the west. So western money is flowing into Russia for gas and oil but rubles aren't flowing out. As storoge runs low production crates. For example, automobiles:

.Russia’s Car Manufacturing Collapses by 97% in May

Auto production in Russia has slowed to a crawl after major automakers exited and Western governments imposed debilitating sanctions on Moscow in response to its invasion of Ukraine. 

Russia manufactured 3,700 cars in May, 97% fewer than the same month last year, the country’s statistics agency Rosstat said late Wednesday.

Output fluctuated at the start of the year, with 95,000 cars in January and 108,000 in February, before plummeting to 40,800 in March — the first full month after President Vladimir Putin ordered troops to attack Ukraine. 

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/06/30/russias-car-manufacturing-collapses-by-97-in-may-a78151

Sorry but I cannot believe that.

 

More Russian propaganda, or was it Western propaganda.

 

I know that Jose Thailand said don't believe in propaganda but I can't remember which one. Sorry.

14 minutes ago, lapamita said:

Russia could take Kiev in a day. but under what price? what price of death toll?

if they would go with the full force,you would be having 100 of tousend death. Its not the Goal to terminated ukrainians. its a brother  population, and they want keep numbers of civilian caculties low.

and if they would use full force to reach the goal , they would be banned and excluded from the international commnity for long long time, whats even not the Goal of russia.

Civil casulitys in ukraine at  aprox 7000-10000 depend on source , is quiet low  for a war like that.how many ivilian casultys the US or more bad the nazis leaving behind, when they invaded a country?

So what stopped them? Or are you claiming that their western campaign which cost Russia so many lives and so much materiel fulfilled its mission?

2 minutes ago, rudi49jr said:

You must be watching a lot of RT, or other Russian state controlled media outlets, if you actually believe all that propaganda tripe you’re posting. 

hopefully this conflict , will not extend over the boarders. with such a lot of faith from US . hopefully we will never see the real force of russian or american military power.

but the fear is omnipresent.

oh sorry , i am locking international news and make own research , propaganda is all the way down , in west and east

1 hour ago, connda said:

"The first casualty of war is Truth."

That applies to all sides engaged in the conflict.  No side is exempt.  And the target of deliberately twisted fact?  The public, on all sides.

The truth is much easier to ascertain in this war than any other before it, thanks to digital evidence collected, verified and preserved. A large number of organizations including Human Rights Watch have been very active in these investigations particularly those involving the Russian war crimes against civilians. various methods are used to verify including satellite, meta data, geo locating and witness verification. 
 

Atrocities committed by Russia are being well and truely documented.

1 hour ago, John Drake said:

One big loser is China, whose aircraft and missile systems are not even of Russian quality but Chinese copies of Russian designs. Nothing like seeing state of the art Russian military equipment blown to pieces by 30+ year old American HIMARS and the like. Meanwhile, the biggest winner of the war might be Taiwan, which is much more advanced than Ukraine. China looking to invade Taiwan with Russian military thinking and technology might be having second thoughts.

The Russians, along with Belorussia, had a border contiguous with Ukraine. In terms of logistics, that is a hell of a lot easier to move troops and armor, than across 170 km of water. Where technically advanced American nuclear submarines would be lurking.

 

The Chinese are not dumb. They are getting free military lessons from the Russians on how important logistics are to conduct a successful campaign.

 

While Xi has the objective of crowning his tenure with the takeover of Taiwan, I'd say his military chiefs are saying wait until we have parity with the Americans.

13 minutes ago, lapamita said:

 

oh sorry , i am locking international news and make own research , propaganda is all the way down , in west and east

You already broke International laws by invading Ukraine so why worry

14 minutes ago, lapamita said:

hopefully this conflict , will not extend over the boarders. with such a lot of faith from US . hopefully we will never see the real force of russian or american military power.

but the fear is omnipresent.

oh sorry , i am locking international news and make own research , propaganda is all the way down , in west and east

unless you're referring to nuclear weapons, we've already seen "the real force of russian"... military power.

Ukrainians been told not to go into russia but if the nuclear power plant is blown all bets are off

null

9 minutes ago, lapamita said:

only some russian soliders ( or better only a part of it from tschetschenia)

and whats about

and the urkainians ( or better only a part of the army) please read  section 4

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Regiment

 

and i put a question here in....

the accuses f the west and the kiev regime about nuclear plant shelling . even iaea not confirmed,not an outcome of the kiev propaganda.

why west .............shows NO evnidence of any of their accusations ???  a stelitte pic could show the diffrence betw a mouse and a rat . where is proof of russian artillerie in the plant? or the torture cellar ? and why a controlling part of the plant would damage it ,no reason.

the west could show easily ALL EVIDENCE if their would be any

Only some..........check how many here with interactive online maps and evidence, its blocked in Russia so if your posting from their get yourself a VPN https://ukraine.bellingcat.com/

 

Ah the Azov, what about:

Rusich’s neo-Nazi mercenaries head for Kharkiv or how about the NAZI, Dmitri Utkin who founded Wagner and its group of mercenaries?

 

Regarding the nuclear plant shelling, Russia's making some amazing claims such as:

Russia tells UN inspectors rocket performed '180-degree' flip to land at Zaporizhzhia plant

Kremlin expert insists the weapon made an about-turn in a bid to convince inspectors it had not been fired from Russian-held land

 

 

https://asiatimes.com/2022/09/spasm-escalation-russias-last-weapon-has-been-spent/?mc_cid=4bbfd90020&mc_eid=dcfbcb0104

 

This is a cool (in the sense of non-heated, as in this thread) analysis of military policy, which concludes with the view that Russia has only one card to play (assuming that nuclear weapons remain in their silos, for ever).  It comes from the Yorktown Institute, whose president is the author of the article.

It's the most interesting analysis of East-West military relations I have read for some time.

40 minutes ago, lapamita said:

only some russian soliders ( or better only a part of it from tschetschenia)

and whats about

and the urkainians ( or better only a part of the army) please read  section 4

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Regiment

 

and i put a question here in....

the accuses f the west and the kiev regime about nuclear plant shelling . even iaea not confirmed,not an outcome of the kiev propaganda.

why west .............shows NO evnidence of any of their accusations ???  a stelitte pic could show the diffrence betw a mouse and a rat . where is proof of russian artillerie in the plant? or the torture cellar ? and why a controlling part of the plant would damage it ,no reason.

the west could show easily ALL EVIDENCE if their would be any

Russian military equipment in Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant. it’s also just announced around an hour ago that it’s last reactor is now offline.

 

 

8 minutes ago, blazes said:

https://asiatimes.com/2022/09/spasm-escalation-russias-last-weapon-has-been-spent/?mc_cid=4bbfd90020&mc_eid=dcfbcb0104

 

This is a cool (in the sense of non-heated, as in this thread) analysis of military policy, which concludes with the view that Russia has only one card to play (assuming that nuclear weapons remain in their silos, for ever).  It comes from the Yorktown Institute, whose president is the author of the article.

It's the most interesting analysis of East-West military relations I have read for some time.

Actually its conclusion is:

 

This makes war termination of the utmost importance. Russia must be defeated – that is, removed from Ukraine’s south and, if possible, from Crimea, its military power humbled, and Putin left with no options other than to mobilize or sue for peace. 

1 hour ago, lapamita said:

Russia could take Kiev in a day. but under what price? what price of death toll?

if they would go with the full force,you would be having 100 of tousend death. Its not the Goal to terminated ukrainians. its a brother  population, and they want keep numbers of civilian caculties low.

and if they would use full force to reach the goal , they would be banned and excluded from the international commnity for long long time, whats even not the Goal of russia.

Civil casulitys in ukraine at  aprox 7000-10000 depend on source , is quiet low  for a war like that.how many ivilian casultys the US or more bad the nazis leaving behind, when they invaded a country?

Where's the laugh emoji when you need it?

9 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Actually its conclusion is:

 

This makes war termination of the utmost importance. Russia must be defeated – that is, removed from Ukraine’s south and, if possible, from Crimea, its military power humbled, and Putin left with no options other than to mobilize or sue for peace. 

After these crimes against humanity, the Russian Federation needs to be unFederated. Leave a rump state in Moscow, and divide the rest of the "federation" into five or six independent countries. Playing nice with Russia after 1989 got the world to this point. You can never trust the current geopolitical entity never to return, as it inevitably seems to do, to tyrants and dictators.

At least five vehicles – with one clearly marked with the pro-war symbol “Z” – are seen in the video, with at least two tent-like structures nearby. There are a number of assorted pallets near the vehicles.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/08/19/europe/ukraine-zaporizhzhia-nuclear-plant-russian-vehicles-intl-hnk/index.html

 

46 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

null

Only some..........check how many here with interactive online maps and evidence, its blocked in Russia so if your posting from their get yourself a VPN https://ukraine.bellingcat.com/

 

Ah the Azov, what about:

Rusich’s neo-Nazi mercenaries head for Kharkiv or how about the NAZI, Dmitri Utkin who founded Wagner and its group of mercenaries?

 

Regarding the nuclear plant shelling, Russia's making some amazing claims such as:

Russia tells UN inspectors rocket performed '180-degree' flip to land at Zaporizhzhia plant

Kremlin expert insists the weapon made an about-turn in a bid to convince inspectors it had not been fired from Russian-held land

 

 

i prefer real sites , and information like , but it will take an hour to view , this answers was not in the name of ukrainian propaganda.... thats why ukraine zelensky said by words: " i dont like international institutions ,they look extremly unprofessional,extremly cowardly,extremly inefficent. this not apply only to IAEA it applys as well for UN and amensty international and the red cross"

 

everything they not like is corrupted 

so  i stop here ....waste of time

 

pls look the interview complet and read beetween the lines ,and open ears for all side

 

and i am not in russia currently,and i am german by the way , so your next untrue conclussion