The Father Of Rock & Roll

[cdnvic]

Thats true, but does banning from the Ed Sullivan Show make him the Father of Rock and Roll?.....I don't think so.

No, but developing the style that Bill Haley adopted did.

I'm not disputing the influence of Blackboard Jungle.

Did Bo Diddley record before 1953 to provide an influence on Bill Haley?

1953

Crazy, Man, Crazy Bill Haley & His Comets

1954

Shake Rattle and Roll Bill Haley & His Comets

Bo's first #1 hit was recorded in 1954, but his work with The Washboard Trio from the mid 40s on was where he developed the style of guitar that spawned the sound we now associate with 50s rock.

[Fred Sanford]

Bobby Darin?

[chinthee]

Bobby Darin?

I thought about suggesting Pat Boone or Fabian too.

[Kan Win]

For me it will always be BB King who influenced many up and coming artists.

Voted Someone Else.

BB King

Yours truly,

Kan Win

[mickmac]

Some people feel that "Big Joe Turner" was the artist Bill Haley and the Comets were trying to emulate, listen to "Flip, Flop and Fly" from around that era.

[Tilokarat]

The thing is that Bo Diddley did not make rock and roll popular, nor did Chuck Berry with his first hit Maybelline. Elvis did. He did it by becoming a popular star on tv, first on the Dorsey Brothers show, then on Milton Berle, Steve Allen and then on Ed Sullivan. And 'Heartbreak Hotel' is one of the greatest rock songs of all time. He might not have been innovative in writing, playing the guitar; however, Elvis could sing a song in an original way and he did it by adapting blues, country and rock-a-billy to create this thing called rock and roll which leads me to agree with those who say Elvis is the one who made rock and roll popular. Listen to Mystery Train, Baby, Let's Play House, Good Rockin' Tonight and so on to hear how he adapts many genres into his music.

Jerry Lee Lewis, whom I consider one of the rock greats, had four top hits in 1957 and 1958: Great Balls of Fire, Whole Lotta Shakin', High School Confidential and Breathless. He appeared briefly in one movie, High School Confidential. By this time, Elvis had a string of number one hits and had appeared in three movies. Elvis set the table for the others.

By the way, the first rock and roll song is supposed to be Rocket 88, but I forgot who the singer was. It might have been Big Joe Turner who also did Flip, Flop and Fly, which Elvis sang on the Dorsey show as part of his rendition of Shake, Rattle and Roll: 'I'm like a Mississippi bullfrog sittin' on a hollow stump; I'm like a Mississippi bullfrog sittin' on a hollow stump; I got so many women, I don't know which way to jump. Flip, flop and Fly, I don't care if I die; Flip, flop and fly, I don't care if I die, Never gonna leave yuh, never gonna say goodbye.'

[lazeeboy]

The thing is that Bo Diddley did not make rock and roll popular, nor did Chuck Berry with his first hit Maybelline. Elvis did. He did it by becoming a popular star on tv, first on the Dorsey Brothers show, then on Milton Berle, Steve Allen and then on Ed Sullivan. And 'Heartbreak Hotel' is one of the greatest rock songs of all time. He might not have been innovative in writing, playing the guitar; however, Elvis could sing a song in an original way and he did it by adapting blues, country and rock-a-billy to create this thing called rock and roll which leads me to agree with those who say Elvis is the one who made rock and roll popular. Listen to Mystery Train, Baby, Let's Play House, Good Rockin' Tonight and so on to hear how he adapts many genres into his music.

Jerry Lee Lewis, whom I consider one of the rock greats, had four top hits in 1957 and 1958: Great Balls of Fire, Whole Lotta Shakin', High School Confidential and Breathless. He appeared briefly in one movie, High School Confidential. By this time, Elvis had a string of number one hits and had appeared in three movies. Elvis set the table for the others.

By the way, the first rock and roll song is supposed to be Rocket 88, but I forgot who the singer was. It might have been Big Joe Turner who also did Flip, Flop and Fly, which Elvis sang on the Dorsey show as part of his rendition of Shake, Rattle and Roll: 'I'm like a Mississippi bullfrog sittin' on a hollow stump; I'm like a Mississippi bullfrog sittin' on a hollow stump; I got so many women, I don't know which way to jump. Flip, flop and Fly, I don't care if I die; Flip, flop and fly, I don't care if I die, Never gonna leave yuh, never gonna say goodbye.'

without alan freed most of these acts would'nt have got off the ground

[Tilokarat]

There is no doubt that Alan Freed did a lot to promote rock and roll and a number of acts. However, there was a demand for rock to be played, and Freed took advantage of the opportunity. He certainly helped singers like Jerry Lee Lewis, Chuck Berry, Eddie Cochrane and Little Richard and numerous others.

However, Elvis did not need him. Elvis, I think, was popular as a rock and roll singer before Freed became an influential rock dj. Also, I believe that Gene Vincent and Buddy Holly gained success without becoming part of Freed's show. Gene Vincent sang his big hit, 'Be-Bop-a-lula' in a couple of movies such as, 'The Girl Can't Help It'.

Elvis was promoted by Sam Phillips, Dewey Phillips (Memphis DJ), RCA Victor and Colonel Tom Parker, and the television stations that he appeared on.

In the 1960s, the wild men of rock and roll - Elvis, Jerry Lee Lewis, Chuck Berry, Little Richard and Gene Vincent - were either toned down or out of the business for various reasons. The career of Jerry Lee Lewis went rapidly downhill once it was learnt that he had married his lst or 3rd cousin, who was 13-years old. The new players were all rather tame and similar, for example, the three Bobby's - Curtola, Vinton and Rydell, Fabian, Gene Pitney and so on.

Sun Records had a number of great artists that Sam Phillips spotted and developed such as Elvis, Jerry Lee Lewis, Roy Orbison, Johnny Cash, Billy Lee Riley, Carl Perkins and others.

We should not forget some of the ladies/female groups that helped to popularise rock and roll in the 1950s. These singers would include, Etta James, Laverne Baker, Teresa Brewer, Brenda Lee, Connie Francis, and the incomparable country singer Patsy Cline.

John Lennon said something along the lines of, 'Before Elvis there was nothing'. This does not do much to recognise the importance of Frank Sinatra and the teenage bobby-soxer crowd of the 1940s, but it is a rather good summation of the significance of Elvis to rock and roll, and 'modern' music.

[tropo]

Shouldn't these be given some credit:

ROOTS OF ROCK

1948

Good Rockin' Tonight - Wynonie Harris

1949

Saturday Night Fish Fry - Louis Jordan & His Tympany Five

The Huckabuck - Paul Williams

1950

The Fat Man - Fats Domino

1951

Rocket 88 - Jackie Brenston and His Delta Kings

Sixty-Minute Man - Dominoes

Cry - Johnny Ray

It's All In the Game (original version) - Tommy Edwards

The Glory Of Love - Five Keys

1952

Hound Dog - Big Mama Thornton

Night Train - Jimmy Forrest

Wimoweh - Weavers

Lawdy Miss Clawdy - Lloyd Price

Jambalaya (On The Bayou) - Hank Williams

Midnight Special - Weavers

1953

Crazy Man Crazy - Bill Haley & His Comets

Your Cheatin' Heart - Hank Williams

Please Don't Leave Me - Fats Domino

Crying In The Chapel - Orioles

The Clock - Johnny Ace with the Beale Streeters

Shake A Hand - Faye Adams

Mama (He Treats Your Daughter Mean) - Ruth Brown

Good Lovin' - Clovers

[Tilokarat]

Some of those songs like 'Cry' by Johnny Ray, and the one by Tommy Edwards were ballads and do not really qualify as rock and roll, although they were a more modern way of doing slow songs.

The blues artists , and the country and western singers, mentioned certainly had a tremendous impact on rock and roll. So did gospel singers. You could add 'Midnight Special' by Robert Johnson back in the 1920s as an important influence too. And those boogie-woogie piano players in the 30s and 40s certainly influenced people like Little Richard and Jerry Lee Lewis.

The original songs that singers like Elvis covered (Hound Dog, Mystery Train), as far as I know, were not #1 hits so not too many people would know about them. But Elvis listened to the blues, country, gospel, rhythm and blues, and ballad singers. He fused all of this into something called rock and roll.

Bill Haley, I think, had a country swing band, and covered songs such as Shake, Rattle and Roll, which could reach a white audience in the way that the original singer could not.

Hank Williams was a country and western star, but his music, no matter how influential, was not rock and roll.

The Weavers were folk singers, and influenced groups like Peter, Paul and Mary, the Kingston Trio and solo artists like Joan Baez, Pete Seeger, Judy Collins, Phil Oakes and Buffy Ste. Marie, etc. more than they had any impact on rock and roll.

Crying in the Chapel is gospel, which Elvis covered sometime in the 1960s

In other words, rock and roll seems to have been born from this fusion of country, blues, gospel, boogie-woogie, and much else. Jerry Lee Lewis, like Elvis, did not write his own songs, but they could play rock and roll, and they made it popular.

The original performers might feel disgruntled, but as Hank Ballard said when Chubby Checker copied 'The Twist': 'it made me a wealthy man'.

When did Ray Charles become popular?

Does anyone from the United Kingdom remember Billy Fury? He was, I believe, one of the first English rock and roll singers along with Tommy Steele.

France had Johnny Halliday, and Canada had Paul Anka and Juliette. Hong Kong eventually had Sam Hui, but what about Thailand? Who were the first rock singers here?

[wolfmanjack]

Hank Williams was a country and western star, but his music, no matter how influential, was not rock and roll.

Neither was patsy cline.

[cdnvic]

I think rock and Country developed almost parallel to each other, both being influenced by bluegrass. I'm certain that the early rock guitarists like Diddley who made the guitar the driving force of the band had gotten the idea from the banjo players in bluegrass bands. If you listen to the music of Roy Acuff and other bluegrass artists of the 30s and 40s you will recognize the string instrument style of early rock, and the vocal styles that dominated country & western right up to the 70s.

[gennisis]

Some of those songs like 'Cry' by Johnny Ray, and the one by Tommy Edwards were ballads and do not really qualify as rock and roll, although they were a more modern way of doing slow songs.

The blues artists , and the country and western singers, mentioned certainly had a tremendous impact on rock and roll. So did gospel singers. You could add 'Midnight Special' by Robert Johnson back in the 1920s as an important influence too. And those boogie-woogie piano players in the 30s and 40s certainly influenced people like Little Richard and Jerry Lee Lewis.

The original songs that singers like Elvis covered (Hound Dog, Mystery Train), as far as I know, were not #1 hits so not too many people would know about them. But Elvis listened to the blues, country, gospel, rhythm and blues, and ballad singers. He fused all of this into something called rock and roll.

Bill Haley, I think, had a country swing band, and covered songs such as Shake, Rattle and Roll, which could reach a white audience in the way that the original singer could not.

Hank Williams was a country and western star, but his music, no matter how influential, was not rock and roll.

The Weavers were folk singers, and influenced groups like Peter, Paul and Mary, the Kingston Trio and solo artists like Joan Baez, Pete Seeger, Judy Collins, Phil Oakes and Buffy Ste. Marie, etc. more than they had any impact on rock and roll.

Crying in the Chapel is gospel, which Elvis covered sometime in the 1960s

In other words, rock and roll seems to have been born from this fusion of country, blues, gospel, boogie-woogie, and much else. Jerry Lee Lewis, like Elvis, did not write his own songs, but they could play rock and roll, and they made it popular.

The original performers might feel disgruntled, but as Hank Ballard said when Chubby Checker copied 'The Twist': 'it made me a wealthy man'.

When did Ray Charles become popular?

France had Johnny Halliday, and Canada had Paul Anka and Juliette. Hong Kong eventually had Sam Hui, but what about Thailand? Who were the first rock singers here?

Does anyone from the United Kingdom remember Billy Fury? He was, I believe, one of the first English rock and roll singers along with Tommy Steele.

and dont forget Marty Wilde and "Shaky"

Back to the USA no one has mentioned Carl Perkins,who to me was one 0of the original greats...his Blue Suede Shoes was before Elvis"s and his "Put your Cat Clothes On" is to me one of his best

[chinthee]

Well, if we're expanding the discussion to major influences of rock n roll, we would be remiss if we didn't discuss the tremendous melodious contributions of Barry Gordy & Motown, which was developing in the late fifties at the same time. The genius influence of artists like Marvin Gaye, whom I jammed with once if you believe it, cannot be overstated as far as influencing the direction of Rock and roll and modern music. Again, another movie reference: Dream Girls.

[jetjock]

I think that Chuck Berry is probably considered the father of Rock & Roll by most of the black community however Elvis Presley was the artist that brought R&R into the mainstream and more acceptable in the white community. I am not sure about the Thai community!!

[sriracha john]

The Scorpions and The Eagles, of course.

[Ulysses G.]

Buddy Holly is the only one I like here, so I voted for him.

[jingjoe]

Rock'n'Roll is a bastard, his mother was a slut.

So many fathers.

For Australians, there was one guy who topped them all...

Mr. Johnny O'Keefe WAS the king of aussie rock'n'roll, writing "Wild One" (real wild child), recording it and "Shout" in the late 1950's.

Died way too young in 1978, he was to rock'n'roll what Bradman was to Cricket.

[cdnvic]

The reason I don't even consider Elvis to be in the running is that he was always doing what he was told, where Diddley, Berry, and the others were breaking rules and creating what became rock. Without Jerry Lee Lewis the piano would never have been a rock instrument, without Bo Diddley there would be no such thing as a 'lead' guitar, and without Sam Phillips Elvis would be a retired truck driver.

No disrespect to Elvis, he was a great singer, but he wasn't a creator, he was a performer. Sam Phillips made him popular, so I think he deserves more credit than Elvis toward creating rock as it is today. His championing of Jerry Lee Lewis, and others only cements his position further.

[Tilokarat]

Little Richard was probably playing the piano, as a popular instrument, before Jerry Lee Lewisl So was Fats Domino. I was around when those guys were performing, and I do not remember anything to suggest that the Killer was the one who made the piano famous.

Elvis was the one who broke the rules with his sideburns, curled up lip, wearing of pink shirts, and eye-shadow, and his movements on stage. The rest of them - Gene Vincent, Jerry Lee, Eddie Cochrane and so just did not possess the stage presence of Elvis. Jackie Wilson was another great live artist, but he was a few years after Elvis; however, he was a dynamic performer to say the least.

I also do not think Bo Diddley was the one that led the way in guitar work. Chuck Berry was seen to be a more accomplished guitar player, and Bill Haley's group had a lead guitarist too. This is not to say that Bo Diddley did not have an impact, but he did not have many hits, and was not that popular.

Now I am writing all of this from memory, so it is very possible that I have made mistakes along the way; however, no-one at that time, no-one was the rock giant like Elvis. No-one came close to him, and to deny him a place in the discussion seems silly. And, I do not think Elvis ever did as he was told on stage. Management might have given him direction as far as his career was concerned, but on stage, Elvis was his own man.

If I remember correctly Sam Phillips was trying to get Elvis to do his version of Blue Moon of Kentucky. During one of the breaks in that session, Elvis started playing, 'That's All Right Mama', a blues song, but he speeded it up, and it has a bit of a country flavour to it as well. Anyway, Phillips said that is what he wanted. They got Dewey Phillips, the dj, to play the thing, and Elvis was, eventually, on his way. And so was rock and roll. It was the appearances of Elvis on television that made rock popular. I am not talking about Elvis post-army, but pre-army. He was the guy, there was no-one else that compared to Elvis in popularity at that time.

I do not remember how many hits he had in that early period, 1955-1959, but I would imagine that his total of number one songs surpassed anyone else at that time. His influence was huge.

[Tilokarat]

Is it true that King Henry the VIII penned 'Greensleeves'? If so, perhaps he should get credit for something other than chopping off the heads of his wives, well, some of them at least.

[cdnvic]

I do not remember anything to suggest that the Killer was the one who made the piano famous.

The others played piano, he made it rock.

Elvis was the one who broke the rules with his sideburns, curled up lip, wearing of pink shirts, and eye-shadow, and his movements on stage.

That's not music, that's just a stage act, like Britney Spears.

I also do not think Bo Diddley was the one that led the way in guitar work. Chuck Berry was seen to be a more accomplished guitar player

History records it different. Show me a single place where Berry is said to be a more accomplished player.

Management might have given him direction as far as his career was concerned, but on stage, Elvis was his own man.

Except for the music, and lyrics which were written by someone else and chosen by Col. Tom Parker and Sam Phillips.

I am not talking about Elvis post-army, but pre-army. He was the guy, there was no-one else that compared to Elvis in popularity at that time.

Popularity does not make someone an artist. It makes you a performer. Performers don't create anything, they perform.

I do not remember how many hits he had in that early period, 1955-1959, but I would imagine that his total of number one songs surpassed anyone else at that time. His influence was huge.

His influence was based upon other people's work. Other people's lyrics, other people's music, other people's decisions. You loyalty as a fan is admirable, but Elvis was a performer, not an artist.

Edited June 28, 2007 by cdnvic

[mackayae]

R&B + C&W = R&R

R&B groups as well as C&W groups were playing R&R long before the birth of R&R. It was Alan Freed, then a Cleveland DJ, who coined the phrase. It was Sam Phillips who said: give me a white boy who can sing like a negro.

People like Bill Haley and Elvis made it popular with the white american teens in the early fifties.

However, if you took a walk down Beale Street prior to that time, you could hear it every night of the week.

I don't think R&R had a father, but many fathers.

[tropo]

No disrespect to Elvis, he was a great singer, but he wasn't a creator, he was a performer. Sam Phillips made him popular, so I think he deserves more credit than Elvis toward creating rock as it is today. His championing of Jerry Lee Lewis, and others only cements his position further.

It's a very good point. We have the same problem where people will get famous piano "players" mixed up with the piano "composers". Often the players had more skill (on the instruments) than the composers but had nothing to do with the evolution of the music, although they played a big part in popularlizing the music.

Edited June 28, 2007 by tropo

[Ulysses G.]

I've never liked Elvis.

"In the Ghetto" wasn't a bad tune though.

[Tilokarat]

I am a fan of all of those guys, not just Elvis. His contribution to rock and roll, other than his stage presence, was the way he sang songs. This is getting tiresome to repeat, but what Elvis did was to combine r&b, blues, gospel, country, boogie-woogie to create this new sound. Initially, I think, it was called rock 'a billy. That was something new. Like or not, Elvis was an innovator, a rebel and a contributor to this new style and deserves to be included in any discussion about early rock and roll. To omit him, might not quite be like leaving the Pope out of a discussion of the history of Catholicism, but it would seem odd.

Little Richard made the piano rock just as much as Jerry Lee, and I love their music.

Your point about Sam Phillips is well-taken. It is useful to remember, however, that originally he was a small-time player nationally, who was very influential in the south. He did not make Elvis, Johnny Cash, Jerry Lee Lewis, Roy Orbison and Carl Perkins. He recorded and promoted them. They made their own music, had their own style, and Sam Phillips gave them exposure in the south such as on the Louisiana Hayride (maybe not Orbison who moved on to another label after a short time at Sun).

Anyway, the main point is that old style 1950s rock and roll is great, it was fun, and we got to listen to any number of interesting singers, instrumentalists and personalities. Long live rock and roll!

[wileycoyote]

Bill Hailey and the Comets

I agree with chuchok

Wiley Coyote

[Old Croc]

Bill Hailey and the Comets

I agree with chuchok

Wiley Coyote

Yes, agree. While touring country US, he was the first to spawn the type of dance that could be most described as rock and roll.

The likes of BB King and Bo Diddly, while great artists, are more accurately descibed as blues musicians.

[cdnvic]

Found this snippet from Rolling Stone which declares three founders of Rock & Roll:

"History belongs to the victors and in the annals of rock & roll, three men have emerged as winners: Chuck Berry, Little Richard and Bo Diddley, a holy trinity who were there at the start". (Rolling Stone magazine, #981, August 2005)

[chinthee]

Found this snippet from Rolling Stone which declares three founders of Rock & Roll:

"History belongs to the victors and in the annals of rock & roll, three men have emerged as winners: Chuck Berry, Little Richard and Bo Diddley, a holy trinity who were there at the start". (Rolling Stone magazine, #981, August 2005)

Thanks. This was a good thread. You should do another one on modern eras, Beatles, Zepelin, etc.., even hip hop/R&B.