Soi Dogs. Agressive Dogs Lurking On Shady Sois Of The Capital And Elsewhere

[qwertz]

Nienke, I appreciate your concern and the advice. I have considered it, and I don't think it will work. You make catching the dog sound real EZ, but I have been around animals much of my life, and even pets get vicious when they are injured and vulnerable. I would put this dog at about 30 Kg. No way am I going to attempt a capture it by myself. Sedatives in sausages are a good idea in a controlled situation but there are about 5 dogs in that group. How do I tell them which one gets to eat? What's the dosage? Those kinds of sedatives are controlled substances, are you sure a vet will just hand them over? This dog has an injury that a human in a hospital would have trouble surviving. What kind of surgery bills do you think I can afford for a dying soi dog? If my wife found out, I'd be the one getting surgery.

This is a tragedy for sure, and I guess now I am a real bad guy because I don't have an answer that doesn't end in death, but this shouldn't be happening at all. People seem to admire these soi dogs, they think they are part of the charm of Thailand but it's wrong. Stray dogs have crappy lives and die prematurely from violence or disease. Allowing strays is the same as abusing dogs, and it goes on indefinitely. It is of course an education issue, I would think Buddhists would be quite sensitive to animal suffering, but they appear to have no opinion at all.

If you want me to be the goat in this situation, fine with me.

Well, C, I guess the Thais can afford their philosophy if they never have to do anything about the problem.

I once sat in a Soi bar and saw a dog run down by a Thai driver.

He didn't even brake.

The farang in the car behind him did at least stop and move the badly injured dog to the kerb before driving on.

The dog lay howling in agony in the burning sun and when I asked one of the girls for a bowl of water, all the girls in the bar made clear they thought I was dumb.

I should stress I'm not a great fan of dogs but who with a heart could "mai pen rai" that poor critter?

Sorry if this offends but I find the Thais unnecessarily callous with animals.

[sonnyJ]

And I ain't voting -- what are these gender differentials about? Wanklette.

People can decide if they want to vote or not, but you won't get the results that way.

Gender is part of the questionare, just for the statistics. Don't be afraid. If you are interested studying some statistics I could recommend some books.

What's a wanklette?

[uptou]

ive never had a problem with soi dogs,apart from the odd few that tend to bark alot at me probably because i'm quite tall.most of them seem to have bad legs at some point which i think is due to inbreeding.when i was on a visa run in ranong i saw a dog run over.the pick up truck plowed straight through the dog,didnt slow down or swerve.i took a walk over to the dog which was twitching away.i suppose i should have finnished the dog off with something,even if it was as good as dead already,but couldnt do it so carried on walking.gutted to see it.

[sonnyJ]

Gerald (The Traveling Soi Dog) is apallled by the number of votes to shoot/cook or harm his beloved brethren. Gerald (The Traveling Soi Dog) has spoken to his evil twin brother Norman (pictured below) to sort you out.

He knows who you are and he knows where you live.

And he's on his way.

Tell Norman & Gerald I'm sorry if I have offended their feelings. They surely do have name tags hanging around their necks.

What I'm surprised is about 50% of 35 votes since don't mind them at all.

And only I am ready for BBQ, guess I should ask Thais if there could be a market there.

[chinthee]

As I've stated on this forum before, I am a dog lover and owner.

However, I've had MANY bad experiences with stray dogs. I used to cycle in Phuket for many years several times per week. I used to take long trips, sometimes 3 hours, and always on the same route. I had a pack of about 20 strays chase me once as they were snacking on some trash, I've had a couple launch themselves at me as I was passing, etc.. I understand that maybe I was going fast, and just evoked their chase instincts, etc.., but it was very unnerving and dangerous, because I could have crashed at high speeds. I learned to never even look sideways at them as you pass, but I did resort to taping dog pepper spray to the handlebars, and used it once. Stopped that feller cold. don't worry, 100% safe, no permanent damage.

In Bangkok, I agree it's a terrible eyesore, and for foreigners, and especially those afraid of dogs, it's very unnerving as they're not used to walking among loose dogs in the west.

Call me a pessimist, but I never see this problem getting solved for many reasons.

[lingling]

Nienke, I appreciate your concern and the advice. I have considered it, and I don’t think it will work. You make catching the dog sound real EZ, but I have been around animals much of my life, and even pets get vicious when they are injured and vulnerable. I would put this dog at about 30 Kg. No way am I going to attempt a capture it by myself. Sedatives in sausages are a good idea in a controlled situation but there are about 5 dogs in that group. How do I tell them which one gets to eat? What’s the dosage? Those kinds of sedatives are controlled substances, are you sure a vet will just hand them over? This dog has an injury that a human in a hospital would have trouble surviving. What kind of surgery bills do you think I can afford for a dying soi dog? If my wife found out, I’d be the one getting surgery.

This is a tragedy for sure, and I guess now I am a real bad guy because I don’t have an answer that doesn’t end in death, but this shouldn’t be happening at all. People seem to admire these soi dogs, they think they are part of the charm of Thailand but it’s wrong. Stray dogs have crappy lives and die prematurely from violence or disease. Allowing strays is the same as abusing dogs, and it goes on indefinitely. It is of course an education issue, I would think Buddhists would be quite sensitive to animal suffering, but they appear to have no opinion at all.

If you want me to be the goat in this situation, fine with me.

If you're in BKK you can contact the BMA or your local police station and they'll take care of it.

[Jet Gorgon]

Well I have all rights and a good reason to live here.

We all have rights, Sonnyboy, and some have a good reason. So do the soi dogs. Quit complaining is all I'm saying. Ooh, I should write a song. You just sound like a whiner to me.

[qwertz]

Well I have all rights and a good reason to live here.

We all have rights, Sonnyboy, and some have a good reason. So do the soi dogs. Quit complaining is all I'm saying. Ooh, I should write a song. You just sound like a whiner to me.

Did somebody mention wine?

I'll drink to that.

On the topic of of humane treatment of animals in Thailand, there is a woeful lack of compassion on the part of most Thais.

My mother (R.I.P. I do so miss her wisdom) always taught me to observe how people treat animals as a fairly good guide to how they treat people.

A very shrewd lady was my mum.

[Luckydog]

To me they range from friendly to indifferent. Never had a problem with one yet.

Me too. I feed them poor things........

[Gary A]

As I've stated on this forum before, I am a dog lover and owner.

However, I've had MANY bad experiences with stray dogs. I used to cycle in Phuket for many years several times per week. I used to take long trips, sometimes 3 hours, and always on the same route. I had a pack of about 20 strays chase me once as they were snacking on some trash, I've had a couple launch themselves at me as I was passing, etc.. I understand that maybe I was going fast, and just evoked their chase instincts, etc.., but it was very unnerving and dangerous, because I could have crashed at high speeds. I learned to never even look sideways at them as you pass, but I did resort to taping dog pepper spray to the handlebars, and used it once. Stopped that feller cold. don't worry, 100% safe, no permanent damage.

In Bangkok, I agree it's a terrible eyesore, and for foreigners, and especially those afraid of dogs, it's very unnerving as they're not used to walking among loose dogs in the west.

Call me a pessimist, but I never see this problem getting solved for many reasons.

Actually it's pretty easy to protect your self. Take an empty bottle of dish washing detergent and fill it with household ammonia. One little squirt of that will discourage the bravest of the pack.

[sonnyJ]

Well I have all rights and a good reason to live here.

We all have rights, Sonnyboy, and some have a good reason. So do the soi dogs. Quit complaining is all I'm saying. Ooh, I should write a song. You just sound like a whiner to me.

You seem to have completely missed my point. Development. In how many Asian countries you can see packs of dogs roaming the streets?

I'd really like to know how much you rent per month, guess you spend over 100,000 THB per month total, so therefore have isolated yourself from this problem and joint the permille of the luxury Thai population. Then question arises, why are you taking part of this conversation if it does not concern you.

[sonnyJ]

VOTES SO FAR

47 votes

33% don't care.

52% would get rid of them.

16% will be making donations to better them lives.

[popshirt]

Actually it's pretty easy to protect your self. Take an empty bottle of dish washing detergent and fill it with household ammonia. One little squirt of that will discourage the bravest of the pack.

Please tell me where to purchase household ammonia in Bangkok. I've looked for it everywhere!

[soidog1699]

Soidog meat taste good

[qwertz]

Chow dogs were bred for eating once upon a time.

[MTW]

I counldn't vote here since there didn't seem to be a reasonable option. But I haven't had a problem where I live, and only a small problem sometimes on beaches, usually in other countries, not Thailand, which was solved by picking up some rocks and pretending to throw them, or pretending to pick up some rocks. Or even when I wasn't on a beach, but on a road, just turning around suddenly when being followed, and yelling a little, ready to swing my bag but not needing to. Basically trying to pretend I was the dominant dog. Try it sometime, I know some of you do it in the bars!

[sonnyJ]

I counldn't vote here since there didn't seem to be a reasonable option. But I haven't had a problem where I live, and only a small problem sometimes on beaches, usually in other countries, not Thailand, which was solved by picking up some rocks and pretending to throw them, or pretending to pick up some rocks. Or even when I wasn't on a beach, but on a road, just turning around suddenly when being followed, and yelling a little, ready to swing my bag but not needing to. Basically trying to pretend I was the dominant dog. Try it sometime, I know some of you do it in the bars!

What would you see to be a reasonable option then, MTW?

[MTW]

Well, the best option would be teaching birth control in Thailand and teaching people that dogs don't belong in the street. It is not very expensive here, people do tend to feed and even put jackets on dogs especially where I live in the winter, but just don't seem to think dogs belong in the home or inside a fence. Or even when they have a large home and fenced in yard, many of them let them out of the fence several times a day to walk outside as they see fit, that is just the maximum of stupidity and has nothing to do with lack of money.

Many other people with a home and a yard keep them in a small cage 22 hours a day, so that means they are totally unaware of their needs, and then let them out in the street for their free time and exercise, how stupid is that???!!

I am not, notice, complaining about people who have no yard, who live in a small 10 meter room with 5 people and happen to have dogs who live in the sidewalk. But the lack of much of a difference from rich people living on 400 wah, who give their dogs basically the same life is stupid to say the least and there needs to be some education, these people at least need to get their dogs neutered, need to set an example for better dog care, etc. If the richest people in society can't do better how can you expect the poorest people to do better? Maybe the poorest people can never do better, maybe the government, chairities, farangs, have to do it for them, but when the richest people don't see the reason for it, how can you make a change?

[November Rain]

No option for neuter & release or enforced neutering, so I couldn't vote. I run one of those dog charities you have as your last option & I can tell you, it isn't a solution to population problems, no matter how many donations you get (which are never enough, BTW ). Neutering is the only long term solution, IMO. And guess what? The World Health Organisation agrees with me! OK, OK, they've never heard of me, but that is their solution to the stray dog problem, too.

[Gary A]

I hate to see a dog tied up or in cage. I'm of the opinion that if you don't have a fenced in yard, you shouldn't have a dog. I have seen dogs tied up and in small cages that would be way better off dead. If you want a house dog, fine, but if you want a dog for outside and don't have a fenced yard you shouldn't have a dog.

[canuckamuck]

I hate to see a dog tied up or in cage. I'm of the opinion that if you don't have a fenced in yard, you shouldn't have a dog. I have seen dogs tied up and in small cages that would be way better off dead. If you want a house dog, fine, but if you want a dog for outside and don't have a fenced yard you shouldn't have a dog.

Absolutely! That is the golden rule. Keep your dog to yourself, and if you can't provide a good life for it, don't get one. They're not goldfish or hamsters!

[a2396]

Sell them to the Chinese to eat. I am sick of them. They are totally useless and a hazard.

[qwertz]

Or farm them?

Sounds callous, I know, but dog leather is fine stuff and the meat, fur and bones could be processed.

They'd be better fed and cared for until they were (hopefully) humanely killed.

[mike_rad]

Stray dogs are like homeless people. Wanna kill them all? Go do a meditation retreat.

Did that, down the south. Went into the dining area, two temple dogs, not strays, came running out barking, startled me, I tripped, fell down and dislocated my elbow. Brilliant.

[mike_rad]

Stray dogs are like homeless people. Wanna kill them all? Go do a meditation retreat.

Did that, down the south. Went into the dining area, two temple dogs, not strays, came running out barking, startled me, I tripped, fell down and dislocated my elbow. Brilliant.

Shoulda mentioned that wasn't a one off. The previous year a Polish guy got his leg bitten and required five stitches.

[canuckamuck]

PO, Canuckamuck. Stray dogs are like homeless people. Wanna kill them all? Go do a meditation retreat.

Why? Do they kill dogs at those places?

Seriously Jet, I am sorry I didn’t see this post earlier.

Yes I think the future of dogs in Thailand would be brighter if all the dogs who had no owners suddenly vanished. Will this happen? Of course not. But sometimes I can’t help being an idealist. Like you Jet, I come from Canada, where strays are so rare, that if my mom ever saw one, she would call the dog catcher. All the doges I knew as I grew up were healthy unless they were old. I never saw a case of mange until I came to Thailand. I never saw a gang of dogs rip another dog to shreds. I never saw a mother dog staggering down the road with all her ribs sticking out, looking for a piece of garbage to lick.

I never saw these things because in the place we come from there are enough people with sense to realize that strays are dirty, dangerous, and live in a vicious dog eat dog world (hence the term).

It is inhumane to let dogs run free in the city, which is why the humane societies do what they can to keep dogs with good owners.

Do I personally want to kill all the dogs in Thailand? No killing a dog is hard thing to do, they are wonderful, the most faithful animal on the planet. But would I help and support the idea because it is necessary. Yes I would. I would and 10 years later people would call that action forward thinking and a turning point in how Thai people view their environment and their community standards. That is if a system was also were put in place to continue to control strays. Sometimes compassion stands in the way of making things better.

[November Rain]

Culling is NOT the answer. Neuter programmes are. I would make it mandatory for every dog, owned or stray to be neutered, unless the owner had asked for & got permission for it to breed. Such breeding would be carefully regulated.

Not going to happen.

I've talked about this with our local authorities. I've suggested N&R (neuter & release) programmes. They've turned the idea down flat. Not in favour of culling, interestingly; they aren't in favour of that, either. Their idea is to introduce compulsory registration & fine owners whose dogs are roaming free. I'm not sure what they're going to do when they go to fine people & they get the inevitable "Not my dog".

So, in our area, we're privately going to set up a scheme with another dog non-profit org. Schemes like this are already run by non-profit orgs all over Thailand, but mainly in areas with lots of expats.

Neutering & education to get people to accept the idea & get past the 'macho' idea that you can't deprive a dog of its fun (particularly males) is the only way forward I can see.

[canuckamuck]

NR, I believe you are probably on the most realistic track to the solution. This is your field and you seem to have sense and compassion combined, which I find rare in a world of animal activism. I support your efforts. And I wish you great success, but I believe a cull, however distasteful and politically reckless. Would be the right bitter pill to swallow

The downside of the neuter and release plan is that its progress will be imperceptible for at least 10 years, even if it is aggressively implemented, because:

Neutered dogs will still have to make their own way in the world (die alone by some tragic cause) and there will always be those dogs that are overlooked. On top of this are the irresponsible dog owners who allow their fertile dogs frequent shore leave And then dump the puppies.

If aggressive controls were implemented after a cull, the neuter and release option would be infinitely more effective and affordable.

However, Neuter and release is far superior then the status quo. Thailand has the most strays I have seen in any country, mostly IMO because of those who regularly feed the strays. Fuel on the fire I’d say. How long until an epidemic sweeps through and provides a natural cull including all of the well loved and cared for dogs as well?

[bdenner]

Where I live, we have a truck that comes around. We call it the bucket truck because if you give them a dog they give you a bucket for the dog. They take those unwanted dogs to Laos. I think they should expand their business to cover the cities as well as rural areas.

There is no option for me to vote against. I like the dog catcher approach.

My favourite vehicle, dogs are a big problem in the village and our Puya Baan has the authority to order the removal of any animal he sees fit. eg. attack the ankles of motor cyclists, attacks people or pet dogs, disease ridden, unkempt etc. The local dog catchers deliver their load to Sakon Nakhon which I believe is the only province in Thailand where the eating of dog is ‘tolerated’ (not legal).

Unfortunately there have been concerns raised as to the treatment of the animals, by the dog catchers, prior to slaughter and occasionally the powers that be put a stop to the practice. They are back again within a month.

[applecrumble]

Stray dogs are their own worst enemy and it is completely unnecessary to have diseased mongrels roaming the streets making Thailand look like a refugee camp.

I love dogs, but I would only own one if I could provide safe, healthy conditions for it. I applaud the efforts of those who take them in and try to find them homes our give them medical care. But the real humane thing to do would be to eliminate all stray dogs, and then start a licensing and tagging/mirochip program for dogs that have owners. I saw a dog today with his head split open and you could clearly see his brains. He kept putting a paw on top of his head because it hurt. But he was walking around the street being ignored by people. This dog needs to be put down, but I guess there are no karma points in euthanasia so this dog will die a disgustingly painful death. A scene that repeats several times a day in LOS.

Shame on you canuckamuck, how can you call yourself a dog lover and do nothing to help an animal with such horrific injuries? Would it have been too much to take the poor thing to a vet or make the effort to get a vet to come out to it. I came across a similar case once, no way could I walk away and leave that dog, I dont speak a lot of Thai but a couple of young Thais helped me get it into a tuk tuk and directed me to a vet. Needless to say he had to put the dog down. I didnt mind paying and will do it again if I have to. Was it the inconvenience or the cost that stopped you?