Safe and effective.....but maybe for not under 30's...

[248900_1469958220]

The Covid story sure does like to go through some changes....

 

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/fourth-vaccine-dose-unlikely-to-be-approved-for-under30s-due-to-myocarditis-risk/news-story/a2da9fe71fa873f4e5aae0390625691d

[Eleftheros]

This sounds like misinformation from the Australian Government. After all, the CDC and MSNBC told us clearly that the vaccines were safe and effective, as did Anthony "I represent the Science" Fauci.

 

I think we should wait and see what the NZ Government says, because they are in possession of the Truth. As PM Jacinda Ardern said recently: "We will continue to be your single source of truth. .. [D]ismiss anything else."

 

https://caldronpool.com/jacinda-ardern-we-will-continue-to-be-your-single-source-of-truth/

 

There you have it, straight from the horse's mouth. Follow the Science(TM). The debate is settled. No further applications will be accepted.

 

[248900_1469958220]

I also trust Bill Gates for all my vaccine information....What with him, Ardern and various other cretins telling me to get vaxxed to stop the spread and stop killing granny....I feel in safe hands.

[248900_1469958220]

Better late than never I suppose......or is it? I  guess that's what they will find out! But of course, these vaccines are 100% safe an.....they stop trans......

 

Oh well. 

 

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/myocarditis-covid-vaccine-research-long-term-effects-rcna55666

[placeholder]

On 11/19/2022 at 9:01 AM, Eleftheros said:

This sounds like misinformation from the Australian Government. After all, the CDC and MSNBC told us clearly that the vaccines were safe and effective, as did Anthony "I represent the Science" Fauci.

 

I think we should wait and see what the NZ Government says, because they are in possession of the Truth. As PM Jacinda Ardern said recently: "We will continue to be your single source of truth. .. [D]ismiss anything else."

 

https://caldronpool.com/jacinda-ardern-we-will-continue-to-be-your-single-source-of-truth/

 

There you have it, straight from the horse's mouth. Follow the Science(TM). The debate is settled. No further applications will be accepted.

 

Thanks for sharing with us your scientific illiteracy. Who claims that any medication or vaccine is 100% safe or effective.? Share with us the evidence.

From the landing page of World News:

"Any alleged factual claims must be supported by a valid link to an approved credible source."

So go ahead and share with us your source.

And while you're looking for it (and that's going to take a long long time before you find it), contemplate this:

It's about relative risk. What about that concept is so difficult for you to grasp?

[KhunLA]

Ah yes, Gate, Fauci, vest in and pushing the vaccines ...

... doesn't hurt their bottom line, as if they need a few more million or billion at their ages.

[Bkk Brian]

On 11/19/2022 at 9:01 AM, Eleftheros said:

This sounds like misinformation from the Australian Government. After all, the CDC and MSNBC told us clearly that the vaccines were safe and effective, as did Anthony "I represent the Science" Fauci.

 

I think we should wait and see what the NZ Government says, because they are in possession of the Truth. As PM Jacinda Ardern said recently: "We will continue to be your single source of truth. .. [D]ismiss anything else."

 

https://caldronpool.com/jacinda-ardern-we-will-continue-to-be-your-single-source-of-truth/

 

There you have it, straight from the horse's mouth. Follow the Science(TM). The debate is settled. No further applications will be accepted.

 

This sounds like misinformation from the Australian Government.

 

Why? What is so controversial about it? 4th dose unlikely to be approved for the under 30's. 

 

Covid Boosters are optional, nobody is being forced to take them. Its free choice, same as those who feel the need because of their own risk to take flu shots.

[placeholder]

Just now, KhunLA said:

Ah yes, Gate, Fauci, vest in and pushing the vaccines ...

... doesn't hurt their bottom line, as if they need a few more million or billion at their ages.

If you got proof that Fauci or Gates is making money out of this, then produce it. Otherwise:

 "Any alleged factual claims must be supported by a valid link to an approved credible source."

That's from the landing page of World News

 

 

[Rimmer]

A misleading post with unapproved link has been removed

[dotcalm]

It’s getting more difficult to trust the safety and effectiveness of covid vaccines, notably mRNA vaccines produced by Pfizer and Moderna.

Its been documented recently that covid mRNA vaccines may be damaging your ability to control the coronavirus after a booster shot(s)

A new peer-reviewed paper has troubling news for anyone who has received multiple mRNA (Pfizer, Moderna) shots, suggesting the immune system paradoxically weakens a crucial part of its Covid response after the third jab.
The immune shift causes the body to make relatively more of a less potent kind of antibody to Covid, displacing antibodies that attack the virus more aggressively. The change could heighten the risk of Covid infection and mean that people who are infected suffer longer and more serious cases.
It may also increase the chance of certain autoimmune disorders, though that connection is more speculative.
Worse, the researchers found evidence that being infected with Sars-Cov-2 after receiving a booster worsens rather than reverses the shift.
The researchers did not find a similar immune change in people who got other Covid vaccines, only the antigen-encoding mRNA vaccines.

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciimmunol.ade2798

 

sciimmunol.ade2798.pdf

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, dotcalm said:

It’s getting more difficult to trust the safety and effectiveness of covid vaccines, notably mRNA vaccines produced by Pfizer and Moderna.

Its been documented recently that covid mRNA vaccines may be damaging your ability to control the coronavirus after a booster shot(s)

A new peer-reviewed paper has troubling news for anyone who has received multiple mRNA (Pfizer, Moderna) shots, suggesting the immune system paradoxically weakens a crucial part of its Covid response after the third jab.
The immune shift causes the body to make relatively more of a less potent kind of antibody to Covid, displacing antibodies that attack the virus more aggressively. The change could heighten the risk of Covid infection and mean that people who are infected suffer longer and more serious cases.
It may also increase the chance of certain autoimmune disorders, though that connection is more speculative.
Worse, the researchers found evidence that being infected with Sars-Cov-2 after receiving a booster worsens rather than reverses the shift.
The researchers did not find a similar immune change in people who got other Covid vaccines, only the antigen-encoding mRNA vaccines.

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciimmunol.ade2798

 

sciimmunol.ade2798.pdf 996.15 kB · 0 downloads

Not according to the lead researcher and one of the authors of the study..............

 

 

Kilian Schober:

 

What does this mean for mRNA vaccination schemes? Our preprint had "gone viral" among some anti-vax circles, because it would supposedly show that mRNA vaccines are inducing "tolerance". This view is certainly too simplistic. mRNA vaccines have saved millions of lives.

 

The T cell response for example that is elicited by mRNA vaccines is clearly pro-inflammatory. So it's not as easy to simply call it "tolerance".

 

however, it is also conceivable that non-inflammatory Fc-mediated effector functions prevent immunological over-activation while virus is still being neutralized via high-avidity antibody variable regions.

 

The adaptive immune system is elicited by SARS-2 vaccines, which have saved millions of lives. Especially in the elderly, but also among the younger.

 

 

 

 

 

Again your summary is wrong and deliberately misleading, simplistic and out of context. Please provide a link to your claims because the study does not substantiate them at all.

 

 

Edited December 29, 2022 by Bkk Brian

[dotcalm]

The official data reporting hospitalizations and deaths by vaccine status in NSW Au;
78.9 % of ICU patients and 70% patients hospitalized (not ICU) are fully vaccinated (2 or more doses) and the remainder have one does vaccine series. There are no unvaccinated patients. Of the 75 covid deaths, 70% are fully vaccinated suggesting covid vaccines are doing a very poor job of preventing illness & death. I am sure you can agree based on the data.

NSW Respiratory Surveillance Report - week ending 17 December 2022
NSW COVID-19 WEEKLY DATA OVERVIEW Epidemiological week 50, ending 17 December 2022, Table 1

https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/covid-19/Documents/weekly-covid-overview-20221217.pdf

 

Australia prefers mRNA (Pfizer) vaccines:

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/astrazeneca-vaccine-blood-clot-incidents-spark-pfizer-recommendation-for-under-50s-20210408-p57hnd.html

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by dotcalm

[placeholder]

 

1 hour ago, dotcalm said:

The official data reporting hospitalizations and deaths by vaccine status in NSW Au;
78.9 % of ICU patients and 70% patients hospitalized (not ICU) are fully vaccinated (2 or more doses) and the remainder have one does vaccine series. There are no unvaccinated patients. Of the 75 covid deaths, 70% are fully vaccinated suggesting covid vaccines are doing a very poor job of preventing illness & death. I am sure you can agree based on the data.

NSW Respiratory Surveillance Report - week ending 17 December 2022
NSW COVID-19 WEEKLY DATA OVERVIEW Epidemiological week 50, ending 17 December 2022, Table 1

https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/covid-19/Documents/weekly-covid-overview-20221217.pdf

 

Australia prefers mRNA (Pfizer) vaccines:

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/astrazeneca-vaccine-blood-clot-incidents-spark-pfizer-recommendation-for-under-50s-20210408-p57hnd.html

 

Maybe you should have taken a glance at page 1 of that report:

"Vaccination status of cases admitted to hospital, admitted to ICU and those who die will no longer be reported. These data were included from 2021 when vaccines were first rolled out to monitor trends in the relationship between vaccination and outcomes. With most of the population having received at least two doses of vaccine and there being differences in timings of booster dosing across different age groups, the trends between vaccines and outcomes cannot be interpreted using these data"

https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/covid-19/Documents/weekly-covid-overview-20221217.pdf

Edited December 30, 2022 by placeholder

[Bkk Brian]

42 minutes ago, dotcalm said:

The official data reporting hospitalizations and deaths by vaccine status in NSW Au;
78.9 % of ICU patients and 70% patients hospitalized (not ICU) are fully vaccinated (2 or more doses) and the remainder have one does vaccine series. There are no unvaccinated patients. Of the 75 covid deaths, 70% are fully vaccinated suggesting covid vaccines are doing a very poor job of preventing illness & death. I am sure you can agree based on the data.

NSW Respiratory Surveillance Report - week ending 17 December 2022
NSW COVID-19 WEEKLY DATA OVERVIEW Epidemiological week 50, ending 17 December 2022, Table 1

https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/covid-19/Documents/weekly-covid-overview-20221217.pdf

 

Australia prefers mRNA (Pfizer) vaccines:

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/astrazeneca-vaccine-blood-clot-incidents-spark-pfizer-recommendation-for-under-50s-20210408-p57hnd.html

 

You miss the obvious

"With most of the population having received at least two doses of vaccine and there being differences in timings of booster dosing across different age groups, the trends between vaccines and outcomes cannot be interpreted using these data."

 

Then go right ahead, ignore it doing your own thing.......

 

In addition you also miss that these are patients from 0 - 90+ who have tested positive either on entry to hospital or up to 14 days before. Not all are there for covid related illness.

 

[dotcalm]

16 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Maybe you should have taken a glance at page 1 of that report:

"Vaccination status of cases admitted to hospital, admitted to ICU and those who die will no longer be reported

Maybe you have read the part when the reporting is scheduled to stop, in year 2023.

 

Despite your obfuscation, the fully vaccinated are being infected, hospitalized and dying, at very high rates, while NO unvaxxinated are hospitalized and comprise a fraction of covid deaths compated to the fully vaccinated and boosted. The claim vaccines saves lives is contrary to the data, obviously, or should be to you by now.

 

[dotcalm]

>70% of hospitalized for covid are vaccinated,

 

there are zero unvaxxed in hospital and/or ICU.

 

Obvious whats going on here.

Vaccines are supposed to

• prevent infection, nope
• prevent hospitalization: nope
• prevent death: nope

 

The date (evidence) reported by NSW confirms all 3 of the above.

 

So do tell, what do mRNA vaccines provide in the way of benefits?

 

Have a look at VAERS data and excess mortality before you spin this.

 

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by dotcalm

[placeholder]

8 minutes ago, dotcalm said:

Maybe you have read the part when the reporting is scheduled to stop, in year 2023.

 

Despite your obfuscation, the fully vaccinated are being infected, hospitalized and dying, at very high rates, while NO unvaxxinated are hospitalized and comprise a fraction of covid deaths compated to the fully vaccinated and boosted. The claim vaccines saves lives is contrary to the data, obviously, or should be to you by now.

 

Maybe you should read the forum rules about editing quotes to change their meaning. Here's the whole quote again

"Vaccination status of cases admitted to hospital, admitted to ICU and those who die will no longer be reported. These data were included from 2021 when vaccines were first rolled out to monitor trends in the relationship between vaccination and outcomes. With most of the population having received at least two doses of vaccine and there being differences in timings of booster dosing across different age groups, the trends between vaccines and outcomes cannot be interpreted using these data"

 

Clearly they are addressing the present situation and are retiring data that has outlived its usefulness.

As for your assertions other assertions. Without knowing, among other things, the breakdown of vaccination rates in the total population by age, your assertions are worthless.

Edited December 30, 2022 by placeholder

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, dotcalm said:

>70% of hospitalized for covid are vaccinated,

 

there are zero unvaxxed in hospital and/or ICU.

 

Obvious whats going on here. Vaccines are supposed to prevent infection, nope

prevent hospitalization: nope

prevent death: nope

 

The date (evidence) reported by NSW says otherwise.

 

So tell, what do mRNA vaccines provide in the way of benefits?

 

 

See my reply above. 

[Bkk Brian]

10 minutes ago, dotcalm said:

Maybe you have read the part when the reporting is scheduled to stop, in year 2023.

 

Despite your obfuscation, the fully vaccinated are being infected, hospitalized and dying, at very high rates, while NO unvaxxinated are hospitalized and comprise a fraction of covid deaths compated to the fully vaccinated and boosted. The claim vaccines saves lives is contrary to the data, obviously, or should be to you by now.

 

 

 

You are not taking into account the simple maths of population vaccination status. The very reason that this was stated on the document: 

 

"With most of the population having received at least two doses of vaccine and there being differences in timings of booster dosing across different age groups, the trends between vaccines and outcomes cannot be interpreted using these data."

 

Average of 5 deaths per day. Mainly in the 80+ age group with twenty seven aged care residents. 

 

Your claim:

The claim vaccines saves lives is contrary to the data

Please provide evidence of this.

[dotcalm]

6 minutes ago, placeholder said:

See my reply above. 

I would much rater be one of the unvaccinated NOT in hospital in Au, but maybe you prefer to be pfizer jabbed and in the ICU, perhaps yes?

 

But, unless you are pfizer jabbed, stop stressing over it.

[dotcalm]

8 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Your claim:

The claim vaccines saves lives is contrary to the data

Please provide evidence of this

70% of covid deaths reported in NSW are in fully/boosted vaccinated. If vaccines save lives, why are the vast majority of covid deaths occuring in the fully vaccinated?

So, if vaccines work to prevent deaths why are they not preventing deaths?

Edited December 30, 2022 by dotcalm

[placeholder]

5 minutes ago, dotcalm said:

I would much rater be one of the unvaccinated NOT in hospital in Au, but maybe you prefer to be pfizer jabbed and in the ICU, perhaps yes?

 

But, unless you are pfizer jabbed, stop stressing over it.

Given that the younger the cohort is, the more likely they are to be unvaccinated, it's more than likely you are just wishing to be young.

You really don't have a clue about how statistics work, do you?

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, dotcalm said:

70% of covid deaths reported in NSW are in fully/boosted vaccinated. If vaccines save lives, why are the vast majority of covid deaths occuring in the fully vaccinated? Do, if vaccines work to prevent deaths why are they not preventing deaths?

see answer above

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, dotcalm said:

70% of covid deaths reported in NSW are in fully/boosted vaccinated. If vaccines save lives, why are the vast majority of covid deaths occuring in the fully vaccinated?

So, if vaccines work to prevent deaths why are they not preventing deaths?

They are preventing deaths and hospitalizations, nobody claimed they stopped them, if there had been no vaccinations what would the figure be? Simple to research just go to ourworldindata. Hint much higher that 5 per day

 

Still waiting for you to substantiate your claim

 

Do not edit my post in future. where further explanation was given

[dotcalm]

It was widely claimed by many that vaccine prevents transmission & infection, but that go changed to NO, but now they "prevent serious illness and death" except so many vaccinated are dying of covid in NSW, Au. Obviously the vaccines didn't save all these vaccinated dead people, they are dead, from covid, despite being boosted according the the NSW report.

 

Think about it instead of trying to spin it.

 

Accept it after letting the data speak for itself. Don't take my word for it, pay close attention to the data.

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, dotcalm said:

It was widely claimed by many that vaccine prevents transmission & infection, but that go changed to NO, but now they "prevent serious illness and death" except so many vaccinated are dying of covid in NSW, Au. Obviously the vaccines didn't save all these vaccinated dead people, they are dead, from covid, despite being boosted according the the NSW report.

 

Think about it instead of trying to spin it.

 

Accept it after letting the data speak for itself. Don't take my word for it, pay close attention to the data.

That you use phrases like "so many" in what should be a numbers based discussion demonstrates how little command you have of the basics of the issue. Without knowing the distribution of the vaccination by age and health status among the general population, it is impossible to draw the conclusions that you have done. Well, impossible to draw valid inclusions. You seem to have a gift for drawing the other kind.

[dotcalm]

I gotta jet, think about what I have shared with you and be objective.

[Bkk Brian]

6 minutes ago, dotcalm said:

It was widely claimed by many that vaccine prevents transmission & infection, but that go changed to NO, but now they "prevent serious illness and death" except so many vaccinated are dying of covid in NSW, Au. Obviously the vaccines didn't save all these vaccinated dead people, they are dead, from covid, despite being boosted according the the NSW report.

 

Think about it instead of trying to spin it.

 

Accept it after letting the data speak for itself. Don't take my word for it, pay close attention to the data.

From day one when the vaccine studies, approval and role out occurred it was already known they do not stop deaths but did provide very good protection in preventing them and serious effects. The variants changed over time, Omicron has reduced that affect but it is still saving lives. 

 

Your claim @dotcalm that "The claim vaccines saves lives is contrary to the data" Is false and fake information

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

7 minutes ago, dotcalm said:

Fully vaccinated are dropping dead from covid infection like flies, in staggering numbers compared to unvaccinated.

The claim that vaccines prevent death is becoming a laughable fallacy.

Fact Check-Finding that most people dying from COVID-19 are vaccinated does not mean vaccines don’t work

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covid-casualties-vaccines-idUSL1N32R1UI

[MrJ2U]

Moot argument as theres virtually no vaccines available in Thailand.

 

With the Chinese coming you can be assured many people will want boosters that Anutin and this incompetent government will not be able to provide. 

 

Repeat, rinse and repeat.  Anutins retarded guidance regarding vaccines. 

 

"Thai hospitals are reporting that they do not have stocks of vaccines to offer anybody. Checks at Pattaya-area hospitals yesterday revealed that walk-in or prior appointment booster shots have all been ended as stocks already have run out."

 

https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/news/confusion-reigns-over-health-rules-for-chinese-arrivals-in-thailand-420523