Biden says he'll renew push for assault weapons ban following spate of mass shootings

[Hanaguma]

3 minutes ago, Credo said:

How is it different?  I am not sure what you mean, I grew up around guns, but was never enamored by them.  They were a tool.  They were used when needed.  All I can say is that when the assault-style rifle starts shooting, it's virtually impossible to escape.  I was in a vehicle that was riddled with bullet holes, and that happened in a matter of a few seconds.  

There is no aiming at a target, there is just a barrage of gunfire.  

 

Sounds like you are talking about a fully automatic weapon. Those are basically banned already. Again the nomenclature is important. An "assault rifle" is usually defined as a rifle that fires an intermediate round, and can operate either semi auto or full auto mode.  An "assault weapon" is more a political term to describe semi automatic rifles only, using certain cosmetic criteria- color, carrying handle, pistol grip, etc. 

 

I did some time in the military and at that time we used semi auto Fabrique Nationale rifles that shot full size 7.62mm.  I could empty a 20 round mag pretty fast.  Smaller rounds probably faster.  But that is the same with a bog standard hunting rifle as well. 

[Hanaguma]

6 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

No but we do have drunk driving laws to stop it as much as we can.

 

You're now on ignore for the remainder of this OP. Your logic is shot............????

Before you go, care to address your error in saying that ARs are the weapon of choice for mass shooters? 

[Hanaguma]

9 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

Since I'm pretty sure that you can get semi-auto hunting rifles, I would imagine that only magazine capacity would make a different.  Obviously a 5-shot mag is going to cause a much slower rate of fire than a 30-shot mag.  If you can get a 30-shot semi-auto hunting rifle, it's probably not going to be that different. 

 

Perhaps people would opt for an "assault style" rifle due to manoeuvrability, but would simply opt for a hunting rifle were the former to be banned somehow.

Basic hunting rifles like the Ruger Mini 14 fire the same round as the AR types and can also take a 30 round mag.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, Hanaguma said:

Before you go, care to address your error in saying that ARs are the weapon of choice for mass shooters? 

Pleasure but not me the investigation of a house committe you need to click the link 

 

AR-15-style rifles have been the weapon of choice for the killers responsible for the deadliest mass shootings in American history, including the recent mass murders in Buffalo, New York, and Uvalde, Texas.6

https://docs.house.gov/meetings/GO/GO00/20220727/115024/HHRG-117-GO00-20220727-SD005.pdf

 

Goodnight

[Hanaguma]

4 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Pleasure but not me the investigation of a house committe you need to click the link 

 

AR-15-style rifles have been the weapon of choice for the killers responsible for the deadliest mass shootings in American history, including the recent mass murders in Buffalo, New York, and Uvalde, Texas.6

https://docs.house.gov/meetings/GO/GO00/20220727/115024/HHRG-117-GO00-20220727-SD005.pdf

 

Goodnight

Now you are changing your claim. First you said "the AR 15 is the weapon of choice for mass shooters". Statistics show that you are wrong.  NOW you are saying it is the weapon of choice for the deadliest shootings. In that, you are right. But it is irrelevant. 

[FarAngMoh]

I think most Americans support some form of gun control, just like most Americans don’t support late stage abortions. But how much and to what extent will always be hotly debated, especially by the fringe on both sides.

[stuandjulie]

20 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

If the second amendment protects the right to own any gun, how did machine guns get banned for most people? And stay banned?

Where is the Militia in the US now and where does it say any gun?

Second Amendment

Second Amendment Explained

 

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

[candide]

 

6 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Now you are changing your claim. First you said "the AR 15 is the weapon of choice for mass shooters". Statistics show that you are wrong. NOW you are saying it is the weapon of choice for the deadliest shootings. In that, you are right. But it is irrelevant. 

 

@Hanaguma

 

So it may not save all lives in case of mass shooting, as the murderers could also use other weapons, albait not as efficiently. How many lives should be saved in, say 10 years to justify banning AR-15?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 25, 2022 by candide

[ozimoron]

Just now, stuandjulie said:

Where is the Militia in the US now and where does it say any gun?

Second Amendment

Second Amendment Explained

 

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Right there, if you think banning automatic weapons isn't infringing on the right to own a gun then you aren't looking. And if your logic was true (it is), that it doesn't confer the right to own any gun then semi auto weapons can likewise be excluded. There is very little difference between the two types of weapons.

[BangkokReady]

19 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Basic hunting rifles like the Ruger Mini 14 fire the same round as the AR types and can also take a 30 round mag.

Stephen Crowder set up a stall with some hunting rifles and some "assault weapon" rifles, then asked the public how they felt about them.  The public mostly said that the black "military style" rifles should be banned, but the hunting rifles were OK.  They were pretty much the exact same weapons.

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

Stephen Crowder set up a stall with some hunting rifles and some "assault weapon" rifles, then asked the public how they felt about them.  The public mostly said that the black "military style" rifles should be banned, but the hunting rifles were OK.  They were pretty much the exact same weapons.

No they weren't. True hunting rifles are single shot and have a much longer barrel.

[coolcarer]

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

Yes, and.... 

 

they are used in 3% of firearms homicides.  Of course they are more lethal than handguns when used.  ALL rifles and shotguns display these characteristics. They are not exclusive to what people call "assault weapons". 

 

"Assault weapons" use the same ammunition as regular hunting rifles and semi auto rifles.  Unless you want to ban EVERY firearm that shoots a .223 round or 5.56mm or higher, this is a pointless argument to make. 

Yep when used they kill more people and cause massive injuries, some of the kids shot were beyond recognition, so ban them, simple. 

[BangkokReady]

4 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

No they weren't. True hunting rifles are single shot and have a much longer barrel.

They were.  You can get semi-auto hunting rifles.  Just google them.

 

Hunting rifles are simply rifles designed for hunting.

[coolcarer]

American gun culture. This guy collects guns like a woman collects shoes

 

[ozimoron]

10 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

They were.  You can get semi-auto hunting rifles.  Just google them.

 

Hunting rifles are simply rifles designed for hunting.

These rifles are designed for hunting. Not one is a semi automatic. Furthermore, the one with the shortest barrel has that listed as a con.

 

https://www.outdoorlife.com/gear/best-hunting-rifles/

Edited November 25, 2022 by ozimoron

[BangkokReady]

5 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

These rifles are designed for hunting. Not one is a semi automatic.

 

https://www.outdoorlife.com/gear/best-hunting-rifles/

And these rifles are designed for hunting.  All semi-auto. ????‍♂️

 

https://www.browning.com/products/firearms/rifles/semi-auto.html

[Hanaguma]

38 minutes ago, candide said:

 

6 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Now you are changing your claim. First you said "the AR 15 is the weapon of choice for mass shooters". Statistics show that you are wrong. NOW you are saying it is the weapon of choice for the deadliest shootings. In that, you are right. But it is irrelevant. 

 

@Hanaguma

 

So it may not save all lives in case of mass shooting, as the murderers could also use other weapons, albait not as efficiently. How many lives should be saved in, say 10 years to justify banning AR-15?

 

 

 

 

 

I don't know, probably close to zero. You are making the claim, so find some statistics to back it up.  And would you ban just the AR15, or any weapons that resemble it as well?

[Hanaguma]

24 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

Yep when used they kill more people and cause massive injuries, some of the kids shot were beyond recognition, so ban them, simple. 

Yeah, simple.  In spite of the fact that handguns kill far more people than rifles of all types. There are 20 million "AR 15 style" rifles in the US now- how many are used in crimes to justify taking them from the vast majority of responsible owners?

[coolcarer]

41 minutes ago, candide said:

 

6 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Now you are changing your claim. First you said "the AR 15 is the weapon of choice for mass shooters". Statistics show that you are wrong. NOW you are saying it is the weapon of choice for the deadliest shootings. In that, you are right. But it is irrelevant. 

 

@Hanaguma

 

So it may not save all lives in case of mass shooting, as the murderers could also use other weapons, albait not as efficiently. How many lives should be saved in, say 10 years to justify banning AR-15?

 

 

 

 

 

Save the life of just one child in one year would be worth a ban but you would obviously save many more.

[ozimoron]

9 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

And these rifles are designed for hunting.  All semi-auto. ????‍♂️

 

https://www.browning.com/products/firearms/rifles/semi-auto.html

That's a product list from a manufacturer, not an independent review. I did also use the word "true" That wasn't accidental.

Edited November 25, 2022 by ozimoron

[coolcarer]

Just now, Hanaguma said:

Yeah, simple.  In spite of the fact that handguns kill far more people than rifles of all types. There are 20 million "AR 15 style" rifles in the US now- how many are used in crimes to justify taking them from the vast majority of responsible owners?

Not talking about handguns.

[Hanaguma]

18 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

These rifles are designed for hunting. Not one is a semi automatic. Furthermore, the one with the shortest barrel has that listed as a con.

 

https://www.outdoorlife.com/gear/best-hunting-rifles/

Hunting rifles, like cars, come in a variety of configurations depending on their use.  Many of the ones on your list are twice as powerful as AR15 types. 

[BangkokReady]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

That's a product list from a manufacturer, not an independent review.

Your review listed the best hunting rifles.  The lack of semi-autos only suggests that the best hunting rifles happen to be bolt-action.

 

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

I did also use the word "true" That wasn't accidental.

So you envisage every rifle other than single-shot bolt-action types being banned?  Not just scary black ones with pistol grips and collapsing stocks?

[BangkokReady]

6 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

Save the life of just one child in one year would be worth a ban but you would obviously save many more.

How many lives that would have been saved by an "assault weapon" would then not be saved if they were banned though?

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, BangkokReady said:

Your review listed the best hunting rifles.  The lack of semi-autos only suggests that the best hunting rifles happen to be bolt-action.

 

So you envisage every rifle other than single-shot bolt-action types being banned?  Not just scary black ones with pistol grips and collapsing stocks?

Yes, similar to what many countries do.

[Hanaguma]

4 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

Save the life of just one child in one year would be worth a ban but you would obviously save many more.

The "if it saves just one life" argument is nonsense.  Banning swimming pools would save thousands of childrens' lives. As would making helmet use mandatory when they ride in cars. As would banning soft drinks with sugar.  Yet we do none of these things because life is a trade-off. Life is full of dangers that cannot be solved by legislation. 

[Hanaguma]

6 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

Not talking about handguns.

But why not? If you want to save lives that is an obvious place to start since handguns are far more dangerous than rifles- even so called assault weapons. 

[coolcarer]

Just now, Hanaguma said:

The "if it saves just one life" argument is nonsense.  Banning swimming pools would save thousands of childrens' lives. As would making helmet use mandatory when they ride in cars. As would banning soft drinks with sugar.  Yet we do none of these things because life is a trade-off. Life is full of dangers that cannot be solved by legislation. 

Kids need to swim, they don’t need to be shot in school by an AR 15

[coolcarer]

Just now, Hanaguma said:

But why not? If you want to save lives that is an obvious place to start since handguns are far more dangerous than rifles- even so called assault weapons. 

Because this is about a ban on assault weapons not handguns, that’s never going to happen

[BangkokReady]

2 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

Kids need to swim, they don’t need to be shot in school by an AR 15

Is anyone suggesting that kids do need to be shot?