How To Acquire UK Passport For Child Born To UK Other Than By Decent Father?

[Phnom Penh Trader]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

You can order Irish Birth Certificates from here if you know your parents details

https://www2.hse.ie/services/births-deaths-and-marriages/order/birth-certificate/

Fantastic thanks very much for that it’s the death certificate for my grandfather that I need to apply for also on this  page,that means finding out where and when he died unfortunately information that I just don’t have it’s a problem I’m trying to solve right now?

[allanos]

I think there may be another caveat.

 

The father may be British, but there are different kinds of British 

(such as British Overseas Citizen) which do not confer an automatic

right upon a child who was fathered by such a person.

 

Moreover, the father may be British, but not himself born in the

United Kingdom. I think that might also obviate the child's claim

to British citizenship.

[Tippaporn]

6 hours ago, puchooay said:

Our daughter was born outside of wedlock in 2002.

 

Her birth was not registered at British embassy.

 

When applying for her Btitish passport we needed to supply a copy if my birth certificate and, if i remember correctly, a copy of my passport. Nothing else from me was needed.

Most encouraging news!!  Thanks! 

[Tippaporn]

1 hour ago, allanos said:

I think there may be another caveat.

 

The father may be British, but there are different kinds of British 

(such as British Overseas Citizen) which do not confer an automatic

right upon a child who was fathered by such a person.

 

Moreover, the father may be British, but not himself born in the

United Kingdom. I think that might also obviate the child's claim

to British citizenship.

In our case the father was born in the UK and descends from long British lineage.  He's been an expat for in Thailand for 35 years without  a single return trip the UK.  So he's told me.  I think the question of the father handing down automatic British citizenship to his daughter is, in our case, and according to the UK.gov website, answered.

[Tippaporn]

The mum confirmed today that she does not have a copy of the father's birth certificate.  He had told her that he lost his original and never applied for a duplicate.  Which may explain his reluctance to follow through on obtaining a UK passport for his daughter.

So this leaves me to enquire about his present status as to deceased or not, if that's at all necessary.  But it may provide needed information that would be helpful in acquiring a copy of his birth certificate.  I guess I should start digging here first.

Again, if anyone knows where to source this information it would be greatly appreciated.

[StevieAus]

Another option you might want to consider is that if you  go to the UK Passports site they have an online enquiry facility.

We used it when we applied for our daughter’s UK passport.

We found it very useful with prompt replies.

If you outline the situation of the mother/ daughter I am sure you will get some assistance as this cannot be an irregular situation.

[prakhonchai nick]

The main requirement is to prove the child is eligible for a British passport.. If the Father is named on the Thai birth certificate as the Father, the next step is to obtain the LONG British birth certificate, which names the Father's parents as well as providing his full details.  This can be obtained from the GRO for a nominal fee, but one would ned to supply Father's full name, and date and place of birth as a minimum.  Once one has that it is fairly plain sailing.

[Kwasaki]

It maybe possible if they were legally married.

Apply to the UK passport office and ask what is required. 

That will be followed by trips to UK embassy I would say. 

[prakhonchai nick]

4 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

It maybe possible if they were legally married.

Apply to the UK passport office and ask what is required. 

That will be followed by trips to UK embassy I would say. 

Married or not, it is first necessary to prove the Father is British, whether by descent or not, and only the long birth certificate will prove this.

[Chivas]

11 hours ago, puchooay said:

Our daughter was born outside of wedlock in 2002.

 

Her birth was not registered at British embassy.

 

When applying for her Btitish passport we needed to supply a copy if my birth certificate and, if i remember correctly, a copy of my passport. Nothing else from me was needed.

I can assuire you that whatever you think you did or didnt need that you are completely wrong

There are literally 10000's worldwide who will sadly testify to your spurious comment

Not withstanding that by writing that you seriously annoy people who have been traumatised over the pre July 1st 2006 date even if it was their own lack of knowledge (mine) that caused the grief

 

I would happily write a cheque for £25,000 this afternoon to obtain that passport if only your statement was accurate

 

Out.....

[Kwasaki]

4 minutes ago, prakhonchai nick said:

Married or not, it is first necessary to prove the Father is British, whether by descent or not, and only the long birth certificate will prove this.

OK so going to UK embassy in Thailand to ask for a copy of his birth certificate is a possibility.

 

Sounds a sad situation to me it seems the OP has already saying he has deserted them. 

[vinny41]

7 hours ago, Phnom Penh Trader said:

Fantastic thanks very much for that it’s the death certificate for my grandfather that I need to apply for also on this  page,that means finding out where and when he died unfortunately information that I just don’t have it’s a problem I’m trying to solve right now?

Not sure why you would need your grandfather death certificate

You must be an Irish citizen to get an Irish Passport.

You are automatically an Irish Citizen if you were born in Ireland before 2005 or if you were born abroad to a parent who was born in Ireland before 2005.

https://www.dfa.ie/irish-embassy/great-britain/passports/how-to-apply-for-a-passport/

Normally you need a copy of birth  certificate of parent born in Ireland

[puchooay]

41 minutes ago, Chivas said:

I can assuire you that whatever you think you did or didnt need that you are completely wrong

There are literally 10000's worldwide who will sadly testify to your spurious comment

Not withstanding that by writing that you seriously annoy people who have been traumatised over the pre July 1st 2006 date even if it was their own lack of knowledge (mine) that caused the grief

 

I would happily write a cheque for £25,000 this afternoon to obtain that passport if only your statement was accurate

 

Out.....

Why would I lie?

 

Your accusations are not required as they are incorrect.

 

Please do attempt to point out the reasons for your unfounded outburst.

 

 

[puchooay]

32 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

OK so going to UK embassy in Thailand to ask for a copy of his birth certificate is a possibility

No it isn't possible.

 

You must apply to GRO, as stated by a previous post.

[Tippaporn]

3 hours ago, StevieAus said:

Another option you might want to consider is that if you  go to the UK Passports site they have an online enquiry facility.

We used it when we applied for our daughter’s UK passport.

We found it very useful with prompt replies.

If you outline the situation of the mother/ daughter I am sure you will get some assistance as this cannot be an irregular situation.

Thanks for the lead.  Before I submit an application I will contact them to ensure everything is in proper order.  I might be wrong but I believe that there are no refunds on applications.  Not that the fee is substantial but no sense in wasting money.

[Tippaporn]

2 hours ago, prakhonchai nick said:

The main requirement is to prove the child is eligible for a British passport.. If the Father is named on the Thai birth certificate as the Father, the next step is to obtain the LONG British birth certificate, which names the Father's parents as well as providing his full details.  This can be obtained from the GRO for a nominal fee, but one would ned to supply Father's full name, and date and place of birth as a minimum.  Once one has that it is fairly plain sailing.

Yes, thank you.  I have the site up and am contacting a dear friend in the UK as it might be an easier task from in country.

https://www.gov.uk/order-copy-birth-death-marriage-certificate

[Tippaporn]

2 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

It maybe possible if they were legally married.

Apply to the UK passport office and ask what is required. 

That will be followed by trips to UK embassy I would say. 

They eliminated wedlock as a condition of handing down citizenship to children in 2006.

[Tippaporn]

2 hours ago, prakhonchai nick said:

Married or not, it is first necessary to prove the Father is British, whether by descent or not, and only the long birth certificate will prove this.

From the "Applying for a passport from outside the UK - Supporting Documents" guidance leaflet provided by Mac Mickmanus the only requirement of the father is to provide his birth certificate.  So you are correct.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1093079/OS_Guidance_G2_07.22.pdf

[Phnom Penh Trader]

2 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Not sure why you would need your grandfather death certificate

You must be an Irish citizen to get an Irish Passport.

You are automatically an Irish Citizen if you were born in Ireland before 2005 or if you were born abroad to a parent who was born in Ireland before 2005.

https://www.dfa.ie/irish-embassy/great-britain/passports/how-to-apply-for-a-passport/

Normally you need a copy of birth  certificate of parent born in Ireland

I was born in England and I think that my real mother may have been?

However I can claim an Irish passport through descent,with my grandfather being born there and an Irish citizen.

[Tippaporn]

2 hours ago, Chivas said:

  

14 hours ago, puchooay said:

Our daughter was born outside of wedlock in 2002.

 

Her birth was not registered at British embassy.

 

When applying for her Btitish passport we needed to supply a copy if my birth certificate and, if i remember correctly, a copy of my passport. Nothing else from me was needed.

I can assuire you that whatever you think you did or didnt need that you are completely wrong

There are literally 10000's worldwide who will sadly testify to your spurious comment

Not withstanding that by writing that you seriously annoy people who have been traumatised over the pre July 1st 2006 date even if it was their own lack of knowledge (mine) that caused the grief

 

I would happily write a cheque for £25,000 this afternoon to obtain that passport if only your statement was accurate

 

Out.....

Jai yen yen.  He's accurate.

Passport type is:  Born or adopted after 1 July 2006 (not naturalised or registered)
Certificate of registration/ naturalisation:  Not required

Parents’ documents (See table B if you were born or adopted in the UK) (Born on or after 1 January 1983):   full birth certificates (showing both the child’s and parents’ details) or certificates of registration or naturalisation; and their marriage certificate (this does not apply for those born or adopted on or after 1 July 2006 or same-sex adoptions).

Grandparents’ documents (See table E):  We may need more information for the following For First Time Applicants:  Neither appears to apply in our case.

Here's the UK guidance leaflet and see if you disagree.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1093079/OS_Guidance_G2_07.22.pdf

[Tippaporn]

1 hour ago, puchooay said:

  

2 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

OK so going to UK embassy in Thailand to ask for a copy of his birth certificate is a possibility.

 

Sounds a sad situation to me it seems the OP has already saying he has deserted them. 

No it isn't possible.

 

You must apply to GRO, as stated by a previous post.

puchooay is correct.

[Tippaporn]

My mate in the UK just provided me with the digital search engine for the GRO.  This site provides all of the necessary information for one to order it up on the GRO website.

 

https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Only one match for the girl's father appears given a DoB range between 1950 and 1952 in all of England and Wales.  And the year is a match . . . 1951.  Am I fantastically lucky?

If searching the database for DoD the database only includes deaths through 1998.

 

[Tippaporn]

So far so good.  The return of the database gave a middle initial of J.  The database truncates all middle names to single letters.  But I just checked the girl's birth certificate and his age confirms the birth year to be correct and his middle name is . . . James.  Also, I know for certain he's not Welch, Northern Irish or a Scot.  His birthplace is listed as Eversham, Worcestershire.  Another match.

And a secondary name search from another UK database came up with the exact same results, minus the mother's maiden name.

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/
 

[vinny41]

2 hours ago, Phnom Penh Trader said:

I was born in England and I think that my real mother may have been?

However I can claim an Irish passport through descent,with my grandfather being born there and an Irish citizen.

1st thing do to is established where your birth mother was born There is a post in this thread where you search by first name last name and range of years for UK only

It will be easier to claim Irish citizenship if she is born in Ireland but you can still claim if she was born outside Ireland

 

Irish citizen parent born outside Ireland

If you were born outside of Ireland and your parent (who was also born outside of Ireland) was an Irish citizen or entitled to be an Irish citizen at the time of your birth, then you are entitled to become an Irish citizen.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/irish_citizenship/irish_citizenship_through_birth_or_descent.html

 

If your birth mother was born In Ireland and you were born outside of Ireland you don't need to register with The Foreign Births Register which is a longer process 2 + years

If your birth mother was born outside of Ireland and you were born outside of Ireland then you do need to register with the The Foreign Births Register

Citizenship through descent from Irish grandparent

If one of your grandparents was born in Ireland, but neither of your parents was born in Ireland, you may become an Irish citizen. You will need to have your birth registered in the Foreign Births Register

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/irish_citizenship/irish_citizenship_through_birth_or_descent.html

There a lot less paperwork required in getting an Irish passport through your birth mother compared to through descent from Irish grandparent

 

 

 

 

[Phnom Penh Trader]

5 hours ago, vinny41 said:

1st thing do to is established where your birth mother was born There is a post in this thread where you search by first name last name and range of years for UK only

It will be easier to claim Irish citizenship if she is born in Ireland but you can still claim if she was born outside Ireland

 

Irish citizen parent born outside Ireland

If you were born outside of Ireland and your parent (who was also born outside of Ireland) was an Irish citizen or entitled to be an Irish citizen at the time of your birth, then you are entitled to become an Irish citizen.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/irish_citizenship/irish_citizenship_through_birth_or_descent.html

 

If your birth mother was born In Ireland and you were born outside of Ireland you don't need to register with The Foreign Births Register which is a longer process 2 + years

If your birth mother was born outside of Ireland and you were born outside of Ireland then you do need to register with the The Foreign Births Register

Citizenship through descent from Irish grandparent

If one of your grandparents was born in Ireland, but neither of your parents was born in Ireland, you may become an Irish citizen. You will need to have your birth registered in the Foreign Births Register

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/irish_citizenship/irish_citizenship_through_birth_or_descent.html

There a lot less paperwork required in getting an Irish passport through your birth mother compared to through descent from Irish grandparent

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately I was adopted at birth along with my twin brother,which believe me doesn’t make things any easier! ????

[geisha]

On 11/30/2022 at 1:53 PM, Mac Mickmanus said:

You would need the Fathers UK Birth certificate at a minimum 

But surely more proof would be needed ? What does the girl have to prove he is the father of her child ?  Anyone can get hold of a birth certificate. British rules( as elsewhere) are very complicated and a long process.

[Mac Mickmanus]

23 minutes ago, geisha said:

But surely more proof would be needed ? What does the girl have to prove he is the father of her child ?  Anyone can get hold of a birth certificate. British rules( as elsewhere) are very complicated and a long process.

His Daughter would need her Birth certificate as well , with his name on it 

[Tippaporn]

2 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

His Daughter would need her Birth certificate as well , with his name on it 

And there is what should be ironclad proof.  Hospitals wouldn't put anyone's name on a birth certificate.  Very difficult to falsify the match then.

 

[Chivas]

3 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

And there is what should be ironclad proof.  Hospitals wouldn't put anyone's name on a birth certificate.  Very difficult to falsify the match then.

 

Ahhh now there lays an issue possibly

Again extreme personal experience albeit on this occasion it didnt matter to us anyway

 

Hospitals issue a "Certificate of Birth" not to be confused with a legal "Birth Certificate" which the Embassy will require

 

Yep you're probably thinking "ehh" lol but small point. As it was we had both obviously not that in our case it made any difference

 

 

 

 

[Tippaporn]

Following is all that is needed to obtain the girl's passport:

1. 2 recent identical photos. Though it's not stated specifically I assume passport photos, which is what we'll send.
2. Full color copies of every page of her Thai passport, including blank pages.
3. Full color photo copy of Thai identity card.
4. Certified document from school to prove her current address.
5. Father's birth certificate.
6. Mum's birth certificate.
7. Natalie's birth certificate.

Let's see what happens.