An agnostic interpretation of a higher power in AA

[Andy F]

Dear friends

 

As an agnostic alcoholic, I was in AA for 25 years before I found a concept of a higher power that worked for me. It was a game changer in my recovery. I hope you like the blog I wrote about this dramatic event in my sober AA journey.

 

https://aaforagnostics.com/blog/getting-to-grips-with-a-higher-power/

 

Have a great 24!

Andy F

 ????????????

[StreetCowboy]

It’s clear to me that faith in God, and his willingness to help us, can achieve great things.  If you’re an agnostic, then accept the faith, at the expense of pious honesty; your faith can achieve great things, regardless of the physical existence or otherwise of God,  The pious amongst us might disagree, but the way I see it, faith is the key; believe God will make it so, and so it will be; you can look ok back, and the pious will say “God made me do this” and the agnostic will say “I did this” , but faith in a Higher Power takes you through the abominable self doubt of your experience to date.

[Andy F]

My experience to date has been beyond my wildest dreams. I have used AA (Group Of Drunks) itself and the suggestions of a sponsor (Good Orderly Direction) as my higher powers ????????????

 

These acronyms for GOD have done for me what I could not do for myself. I am an agnostic and satisfied customer of Alcoholics Anonymous 

[save the frogs]

maybe God is LITERALLY a Group of Drunks.

Ha ha. Just kidding.

Apologies for the levity in this serious matter. 

 

[likerdup1]

8 hours ago, Andy F said:

My experience to date has been beyond my wildest dreams. I have used AA (Group Of Drunks) itself and the suggestions of a sponsor (Good Orderly Direction) as my higher powers ????????????

 

These acronyms for GOD have done for me what I could not do for myself. I am an agnostic and satisfied customer of Alcoholics Anonymous 

I applaud you for not drinking for 25 years as it's obvious that's your wish.  But I hate to break it to you. What you are saying is that you are relying on human beings. AA specifically says it's sole purpose is to seek a higher power or God (not necessary a God of religion either) to get recovery from alcoholism. Human beings are not Gods in AA. For those in early sobriety using the group as a higher power is good temporarily but will not suffice for complete recovery from alcoholism the AA way. Anyone who uses this idea and does all the steps experiences recovery through coming to know a God of their understanding. (see the last paragraph on page 27 of the 12 and 12 AA book)

All my sponsors and people I know who are AA literature enthusiast will simply conclude you are relying on people. Not a higher power. All real alcoholics I know cannot stay sober on human power.

There is something that is read at every meeting that is important to know about the program of AA. (and anyone reading please understand that the fellowship and its meetings are not the 12 step program)

(a ) That we were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives.

(b) That probably no human power could have relieved our alcoholism.

(c ) That God could and would if He were sought.

Any readers please understand that most all real alcoholics cannot get relief from this serious disease of alcoholism on their own self will, self discipline or other human beings.  If that were true AA wouldn't be needed. The 12 step program is nothing but a set of directions for an alcoholic to access a Power Greater than themselves to achieve recovery from alcoholism.

If you've been able to stay sober and have not even gotten past the 2nd step you may not be the kind of drinker that is described in AA literature as a real alcoholic.

 

I am writing this because I wish anyone who may be looking for recovery from alcoholism to not be mislead that what is being said here is a way to do the 12 step program of AA. It is not. There is no "agnostic" or atheists method to recover from alcoholism the AA way. Further more, strictly speaking, anyone who says they are alcoholic and is able to stay abstinent for 25 years without doing the 12 step program is probably not a real alcoholic. More likely just a hard drinker who gave it up on thier own and found the AA fellowship to be a great forum to socialize and make friends. 

There is an entire chapter in AA's basic text (Alcoholics Anonymous) titled "We Agnostics" It's sole purpose is to help people who consider themselves aesthetes or agnostics to become open minded to spiritual principles and the possible existence of a Higher Power, God, Spirit of the Universe etc. Unfortunately it appears the OP has not read the book or this chapter.

Edited January 15, 2023 by likerdup1

[Andy F]

Well "likerdup1",  we have to agree to disagree. I was a homeless street drunk whose life was devastated by alcohol. I had very negative experiences with religion and religious people when I was young. The idea of a monotheistic religious God was impossible for me to grasp.

 

Initially, The Gift Of Desperation, Group of Drunks and Good Orderly Direction were all useful acronyms for powers greater then myself. What was life changing when my ego collapsed and I surrendered. For the first time in my life, I

became teachable. My recovery has involved a gradual reduction of the maladapted alcoholic ego

 

This has resulted in a gradual non-God centered spiritual awakening. The two principle  of "Love and Tolerance" offered by the Big Book of AA have become my higher powers.

 

I am guided by Dr. Bob's farewell message to AA. "Let's not louse it up with Freudian complexes. Let's us remember the simplicity of the program. Our program is based on two simple concepts: "Love and service"

 

https://www.aa.org/dr-bobs-farewell-talk

 

If there is a God, then I'm pretty sure that this is how he would like me to behave to my fellow travellers.

 

These beautiful qualities are undoubtedly powers greater then me. In fact most religious texts proclaim the God IS Love ???? 

[likerdup1]

 a

Edited January 16, 2023 by likerdup1

[Neeranam]

16 hours ago, likerdup1 said:

The 12 step program is nothing but a set of directions for an alcoholic to access a Power Greater than themselves to achieve recovery from alcoholism.

Is it possible to have a spiritual awakening by not believing in God? I believe it is. 

[Neeranam]

16 hours ago, likerdup1 said:

All real alcoholics I know cannot stay sober on human power.

There are many non alcoholics in AA. My ego tells me that I am better than them, but I am continually trying to smash that rock. The  AA program has become diluted and I try to emphasise the God part but few listen to me, sadly.

 

There is a tradition that states 'the only requirement for membership to AA is the desire to stop drinking'.  However, this shortened version was introduced for treatment centres. The original version said ' our membership should be all who suffer from alcoholism' . 

I accept what has happened but would prefer to keep God in the meetings/program. 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Neeranam

[likerdup1]

3 hours ago, Neeranam said:

There are many non alcoholics in AA. My ego tells me that I am better than them, but I am continually trying to smash that rock. The  AA program has become diluted and I try to emphasise the God part but few listen to me, sadly.

 

There is a tradition that states 'the only requirement for membership to AA is the desire to stop drinking'.  However, this shortened version was introduced for treatment centres. The original version said ' our membership should be all who suffer from alcoholism' . 

I accept what has happened but would prefer to keep God in the meetings/program. 

Thank you Neeranam. I agree with you.

 

Something that is truly progressive about the AA fellowship is it's strive toward tolerance and acceptance of anyone wanting recovery from alcoholism. Atheists, agnostics, any race, creed, color, sexual orientation etc.

 

I agree whole hearteadedly that the program talked about in fellowship has gotten quite diluted with ideas from other 12 step fellowships, ideas from treatment centers and ideas of people who have a desire to stop drinking but are not real alcoholics.

 

If somebody wants recovery from alcoholism the AA way they must do the 12 step program. The program is laid out in both the first 164 pages of the Big Book and the step essays in the 12 and 12. The whole program is suggested but if one wants to take the suggested program there are things that must be done. Part of the program is of course the 2nd step, To do the second step one would have to get past any prejudices they might have concerning spirituality, the existence of a Higher Force or God of some kind and become even willing to believe the possible existence of this Higher Force, Power, God etc..

 

Chapter 4 in the Big Book, "We Agnostics" is specifically designed to help agnostics or atheists get passed there prejudices or antipathy toward a Higher Power or God. The 3rd step is completed by saying a prayer! The 3rd step prayer is a prayer to a God of ones own understanding, Higher Power etc.

 

There are very specific instructions in the Big Book that obviously can't be side stepped if one wants to do the 12 step program.

 

I think one thing that comforts me at night is something we see in groups and meetings all the time. Groups that are successful at communicating the program and helping others survive and flourish. I am certain that these so called agnostic or atheist AA groups have very little if any success helping real alcoholics as described in the AA group. They may help hard drinking non-alcoholics but I am fairly certain most of these groups or meetings have very few attendees and do not grow. More than likely the fizzle out because nobody who is really alcoholic stays sober.

 

Entrance into the AA fellowship costs nothing except a desire to stop drinking. ( I agree that the short version left things too wide open, but part of being spiritual is acceptance of others and tolerance.)

Entrance into the Fellowship of the Spirit requires thoroughly following the path of AA which is the program. I think there are those who miss this statement which is read at the beginning of most every meeting.

 

Here are the steps we took which are suggested as a program of recovery.

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by likerdup1