Paying Tax on Overseas Investments

[wordchild]

of course it is always right to be cautious, (because things can change) and get specialist advice if you have concerns.

 it also depends on your situation in Thailand; ie expat retirees who receive pension income from abroad- probably not worth worrying too much about this.

 For those of us who work and file taxes in Thailand it is a different matter. Personally i think it is well worth paying for specialist (local) tax advice. Most people who work here do this, from my experience.

Edited January 21, 2023 by wordchild

[TravelerEastWest]

6 hours ago, wordchild said:

of course it is always right to be cautious, (because things can change) and get specialist advice if you have concerns.

 it also depends on your situation in Thailand; ie expat retirees who receive pension income from abroad- probably not worth worrying too much about this.

 For those of us who work and file taxes in Thailand it is a different matter. Personally i think it is well worth paying for specialist (local) tax advice. Most people who work here do this, from my experience.

I agree with you.

 

One addition - in may be hard to find really good tax advice outside of Bangkok - so get references and check the experience of the person that you hire.

 

I had an experienced local (English speaking, small firm -not Bangkok) CPA who went to a top university in Bangkok give me wrong advice on worldwide business income - I was told it was taxable on my Thai corporate tax return - when it was not.

[Startmeup]

On 1/18/2023 at 3:35 PM, 2009 said:

Yeah

How did you get a Thai Tax ID without paying tax?

"Nonresident aliens are subject to a dividend tax rate of 30% on dividends paid out by U.S. companies."

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/06/nonusresidenttax.asp

I think it depends on the tax treaty between the two countries. From what I can see, Thai tax resident would be subject to 10% withholding tax on US dividends. 

https://www.orbitax.com/taxhub/taxtreaties/US/United-States/TH/Thailand/e6fcc9ca-bbb9-488c-b827-90b95ad5aa1f/-Dividends_ARTICLE-10

Edited January 22, 2023 by Startmeup

[2009]

20 minutes ago, Startmeup said:

How did you get a Thai Tax ID without paying tax?

"Nonresident aliens are subject to a dividend tax rate of 30% on dividends paid out by U.S. companies."

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/06/nonusresidenttax.asp

I think it depends on the tax treaty between the two countries. From what I can see, Thai tax resident would be subject to 10% withholding tax on US dividends. 

I do pay tax, on my income working in Thailand.

[nigelforbes]

47 minutes ago, Startmeup said:

How did you get a Thai Tax ID without paying tax?

"Nonresident aliens are subject to a dividend tax rate of 30% on dividends paid out by U.S. companies."

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/06/nonusresidenttax.asp

I think it depends on the tax treaty between the two countries. From what I can see, Thai tax resident would be subject to 10% withholding tax on US dividends. 

https://www.orbitax.com/taxhub/taxtreaties/US/United-States/TH/Thailand/e6fcc9ca-bbb9-488c-b827-90b95ad5aa1f/-Dividends_ARTICLE-10

You don't have to pay tax in Thailand to register for a tax ID, you simply have to be resident here for tax purposes and hold the necessary visa that will allow that. Even if you only have a small savings account that pays interest, tax will be with held and that can be the basis for wanting the tax ID, if necessary.

[Startmeup]

16 hours ago, nigelforbes said:

You don't have to pay tax in Thailand to register for a tax ID, you simply have to be resident here for tax purposes and hold the necessary visa that will allow that. Even if you only have a small savings account that pays interest, tax will be with held and that can be the basis for wanting the tax ID, if necessary.

I have a Bangkok Bank account. I have gotten interest and paid withholding tax. According to the rules I should be a Thai Resident for taxation. How do I go about getting the taxi ID?

 

I spent over 180 days in Thailand last year because I was on an STV visa.

I intend to spend at least that length of time here again this year but I dont have any visa to show that right now.

Edited January 23, 2023 by Startmeup

[nigelforbes]

15 minutes ago, Startmeup said:

I have a Bangkok Bank account. I have gotten interest and paid withholding tax. According to the rules I should be a Thai Resident for taxation. How do I go about getting the taxi ID?

 

I spent over 180 days in Thailand last year because I was on an STV visa.

I intend to spend at least that length of time here again this year but I dont have any visa to show that right now.

You can ask for one but they may not give it to you, I don't know for certain. Whether or not they give you a visa seems to be determined by the type of visa, I have read that unless you have a long stay visa, they wont one but you can but try.

[Startmeup]

49 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

You can ask for one but they may not give it to you, I don't know for certain. Whether or not they give you a visa seems to be determined by the type of visa, I have read that unless you have a long stay visa, they wont one but you can but try.

Is there any place in particular that I should go and ask, One of the revenue departments I presume?

[nigelforbes]

3 minutes ago, Startmeup said:

Is there any place in particular that I should go and ask, One of the revenue departments I presume?

The larger the better, I would use the District Office, where ever that might be for you. My experience of small office advice has not always been wonderful!

Where are you located?

[Startmeup]

4 hours ago, nigelforbes said:

The larger the better, I would use the District Office, where ever that might be for you. My experience of small office advice has not always been wonderful!

Where are you located?

Bangkok.

If getting a tax ID, will that have other implications? 

I dont intend on paying tax here, my situation doesn't means im not liable. 

Edited January 23, 2023 by Startmeup

[nigelforbes]

8 minutes ago, Startmeup said:

Bangkok.

If getting a tax ID, will that have other implications? 

I dont intend on paying tax here, my situation doesn't means im not liable. 

I don't believe so.  I have a tax ID, sometimes I file a tax return, some years I don't, it depends on the level of my income in Thailand but nobody ever asks me why I haven't filed.

[Startmeup]

12 hours ago, nigelforbes said:

I don't believe so.  I have a tax ID, sometimes I file a tax return, some years I don't, it depends on the level of my income in Thailand but nobody ever asks me why I haven't filed.

When you dont have any particular income in the country what is the reason you use at revenue for asking for one? 

[nigelforbes]

57 minutes ago, Startmeup said:

When you dont have any particular income in the country what is the reason you use at revenue for asking for one? 

Withholding tax on bank interest, almost everyone pays it and they are used to foreigners asking for an ID so they can reclaim it. 

[Startmeup]

39 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

Withholding tax on bank interest, almost everyone pays it and they are used to foreigners asking for an ID so they can reclaim it. 

Excuse my ignorance, why would you need a tax ID for bank withholding taxes? Is this something that can be claimed

Is the Tax Id a one and done thing, doesn't need to be renewed in the future, its a unique lifetime number?

Edited January 24, 2023 by Startmeup

[nigelforbes]

3 minutes ago, Startmeup said:

Excuse my ignorance, why would you need a tax ID for bank withholding taxes? Is this something that can be claimed

Is the Tax Id a one and done thing, doesn't need to be renewed in the future, its a unique lifetime number?

Yes and yes

 

The tax is wiitheld automatically, you need an ID to file a return and reclaim it.

[ballpoint]

Two years after I retired from working and paying quite a large amount of income tax annually in Thailand, I was audited by the Revenue Department. I first became aware of this when my online 90 day report was rejected and I had to go to the local immigration to do it in person.  They said my passport had been flagged by the Revenue Department, and I would be unable to extend my visa, when that time came, until this flag was removed.  It was the RD in Bangkok, to whom my taxes were paid while working, who did the flagging, and not my current district, even though I had transferred my tax number to them upon retirement.  Apparently the RD are doing this more often, and the immigration officer told me some people had had serious problems with it - finding out they were flagged only when they went to extend their visa and then not having enough time to sort it out.  He also said that not only were former income tax payers being targeted, but also any long term "tax residents", which anyone who spends more than 180 days here a year is.

 

Accordingly, I went to my district RD office, who, typically, were unaware of the flag, but did the audit after calling Bangkok.  I had to produce my Thai bank statement for the previous year and account for every deposit made into it.  Luckily for me, I have investments in multiple countries, and I transfer my annual living money to a bank in Singapore each December, with no further deposits made into that bank until the end of the following year.  I then transfer the money to Thailand over the first half of the next year, so when I showed my Singapore statement (they weren't interested in, nor did I offer to show them, the other bank and brokerage accounts I have in various countries) it showed more than enough money on the first of January to cover all transfers to Thailand that year.  I linked each transfer from that bank to a deposit in my KBank account.  I only had to show monthly statements up to the date of my final transfer for the year, so the December one, when the next year's money was deposited, didn't need to be produced.

 

In short, all was okay, and they informed Bangkok to remove the flag.  This was in 2020, and I haven't had any issues with them since.  They informed me I do not have to file a tax return, unless I want to reclaim tax withheld on interest, which I can't be bothered doing.  More importantly, they said that, had there been any deposits made into my Singapore bank the same year as I transferred money, and these were made before, or on the same month, as that money was transferred, I would have to account for where that money came from, and, if tax had not been paid on it at source, I would be liable for income tax on it in Thailand - even if I already had enough money in the account for my transfers before that money was deposited.  So, although the bit about not having to pay tax on income earned prior to the current tax/calendar year is correct, any income deposited into an overseas account used to transfer money to Thailand is liable to be taxed if deposited prior to transfer(s) being made (and it hasn't already been taxed at source).

 

[Startmeup]

50 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

Two years after I retired from working and paying quite a large amount of income tax annually in Thailand, I was audited by the Revenue Department. I first became aware of this when my online 90 day report was rejected and I had to go to the local immigration to do it in person.  They said my passport had been flagged by the Revenue Department, and I would be unable to extend my visa, when that time came, until this flag was removed.  It was the RD in Bangkok, to whom my taxes were paid while working, who did the flagging, and not my current district, even though I had transferred my tax number to them upon retirement.  Apparently the RD are doing this more often, and the immigration officer told me some people had had serious problems with it - finding out they were flagged only when they went to extend their visa and then not having enough time to sort it out.  He also said that not only were former income tax payers being targeted, but also any long term "tax residents", which anyone who spends more than 180 days here a year is.

 

Accordingly, I went to my district RD office, who, typically, were unaware of the flag, but did the audit after calling Bangkok.  I had to produce my Thai bank statement for the previous year and account for every deposit made into it.  Luckily for me, I have investments in multiple countries, and I transfer my annual living money to a bank in Singapore each December, with no further deposits made into that bank until the end of the following year.  I then transfer the money to Thailand over the first half of the next year, so when I showed my Singapore statement (they weren't interested in, nor did I offer to show them, the other bank and brokerage accounts I have in various countries) it showed more than enough money on the first of January to cover all transfers to Thailand that year.  I linked each transfer from that bank to a deposit in my KBank account.  I only had to show monthly statements up to the date of my final transfer for the year, so the December one, when the next year's money was deposited, didn't need to be produced.

 

In short, all was okay, and they informed Bangkok to remove the flag.  This was in 2020, and I haven't had any issues with them since.  They informed me I do not have to file a tax return, unless I want to reclaim tax withheld on interest, which I can't be bothered doing.  More importantly, they said that, had there been any deposits made into my Singapore bank the same year as I transferred money, and these were made before, or on the same month, as that money was transferred, I would have to account for where that money came from, and, if tax had not been paid on it at source, I would be liable for income tax on it in Thailand - even if I already had enough money in the account for my transfers before that money was deposited.  So, although the bit about not having to pay tax on income earned prior to the current tax/calendar year is correct, any income deposited into an overseas account used to transfer money to Thailand is liable to be taxed if deposited prior to transfer(s) being made (and it hasn't already been taxed at source).

 

That's interesting and worrying and imo wrong what they told you.

"Residents who derive income from abroad are taxable on that income if remitted into Thailand in the year in which it is received."

https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/thailand/individual/taxes-on-personal-income
 

A person (Thai or foreign) who resides in Thailand at one or more times for an aggregate period of 180 days or more in any tax (calendar) year will be regarded as a resident of Thailand for tax purposes. A resident of Thailand is liable for personal income tax on income from sources inside Thailand and on assessable income derived from sources outside Thailand. However, the imposition of tax on income derived outside Thailand will apply only to income derived and brought into Thailand in the same year in which such income is earned

https://www.tilleke.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Thailand-Tax-Guide.pdf

If you dont remit the money to Thailand in that year, my interpretation of that would mean within 12 months of when it was earned, even if you had deposited it to your Singapore bank account how could it be taxable in Thailand, that doesn't add up?

 

If you only transfer 100k to Thailand then why does it matter what goes to your Sing account, it was not remitted to Thailand and you are not liable for taxation in Thailand? 

Also, given you deal across various jurisdictions, it sounds like your tax residence is Thailand, this is my issues, I need to be able to prove residency here and having a Tax ID seems like the obvious way to do that? Of course a visa is the other option but even though I stay over 180 days here a year I dont have a long term visa yet. I could show passport stamps proving more than 180 days.

Edited January 24, 2023 by Startmeup

[ballpoint]

1 hour ago, Startmeup said:

That's interesting and worrying and imo wrong what they told you.

"Residents who derive income from abroad are taxable on that income if remitted into Thailand in the year in which it is received."

https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/thailand/individual/taxes-on-personal-income
 

A person (Thai or foreign) who resides in Thailand at one or more times for an aggregate period of 180 days or more in any tax (calendar) year will be regarded as a resident of Thailand for tax purposes. A resident of Thailand is liable for personal income tax on income from sources inside Thailand and on assessable income derived from sources outside Thailand. However, the imposition of tax on income derived outside Thailand will apply only to income derived and brought into Thailand in the same year in which such income is earned

https://www.tilleke.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Thailand-Tax-Guide.pdf

If you dont remit the money to Thailand in that year, my interpretation of that would mean within 12 months of when it was earned, even if you had deposited it to your Singapore bank account how could it be taxable in Thailand, that doesn't add up?

 

If you only transfer 100k to Thailand then why does it matter what goes to your Sing account, it was not remitted to Thailand and you are not liable for taxation in Thailand? 

Also, given you deal across various jurisdictions, it sounds like your tax residence is Thailand, this is my issues, I need to be able to prove residency here and having a Tax ID seems like the obvious way to do that? Of course a visa is the other option but even though I stay over 180 days here a year I dont have a long term visa yet. I could show passport stamps proving more than 180 days.

I probably could have explained my last paragraph a bit clearer.  The company I worked for used PWC to do our taxes, so I sent an email to the accountant who used to prepare mine and she confirmed what the Revenue Department told me.  They said they would have taxed the money I remitted to Thailand up to the value of any money deposited into my Singapore account that I couldn't show had already been taxed.  (This would only have been if the deposit was made the same year and prior to the remit).  For example, if I had, say $150k in my account Jan 1st and remitted $100k over the year then no tax is payable.  If, however, I deposited an additional $50k of untaxed money into that Singapore account prior to the remit, I would be due to pay tax on $50k of that remit.  If I remitted $60k in January, then deposited the $50k, and then remitted a further $40k that year, I would be liable for tax on that $40k. 

 

The quote you give saying "income derived and brought into Thailand in the same year in which such income is earned" is still applicable.  However, many interpret it as meaning if you clearly have the money you remit into Thailand in a particular year already in your bank on January 1st then that is enough.  When, in fact, if you add money to that overseas account the same year as, and prior to, any remit, you can be taxed on the portion of that deposit that is remitted.  In their eyes, if you earned money that year (as inferred by the deposit) and remitted any of that money the same year, then you will be taxed on it.  I also note that, if I were a tax resident of my own country, or a number of other Western ones, I would be liable to declare and pay full taxes on any untaxed money deposited into an overseas bank account.  So I consider myself well ahead of the game in Thailand.  Although, the fact that the Revenue Department are flagging passports with Immigration may be a little worrying.

 

When I retired, my company retained my Thai tax ID, as they were paying tax for me, and had to do so at the end of the year I retired in.  With the introduction of CRS, my banks and brokerages in three different countries sent a similar form with, amongst other items, a request for my tax residency and current tax number.  There is an option to put "not required", but I thought it would be easier in the long term to give a tax number for Thailand, so I went to my district revenue office to get one.  AT first they asked why I needed it, and seemed inclined not to do it, however, I said I wanted to reclaim interest withholding tax, and they gave me an ID with the same number as my previous one, which makes sense.  They weren't interested in my visa, just wanted to see my passport and bank book showing interest payments and tax deducted.  It's just a piece of yellow paper, which they gave me dire warnings not to lose, so I've laminated it.  Try visiting your district revenue office and asking them.  (As someone said above, go to the district one, not the one for the Amphur you live in (if you live outside the Muang).  My Amphur tax office is most unhelpful).

 

[Nonthaburi Boy]

7 hours ago, ballpoint said:

I probably could have explained my last paragraph a bit clearer.  The company I worked for used PWC to do our taxes, so I sent an email to the accountant who used to prepare mine and she confirmed what the Revenue Department told me.  They said they would have taxed the money I remitted to Thailand up to the value of any money deposited into my Singapore account that I couldn't show had already been taxed.  (This would only have been if the deposit was made the same year and prior to the remit).  For example, if I had, say $150k in my account Jan 1st and remitted $100k over the year then no tax is payable.  If, however, I deposited an additional $50k of untaxed money into that Singapore account prior to the remit, I would be due to pay tax on $50k of that remit.  If I remitted $60k in January, then deposited the $50k, and then remitted a further $40k that year, I would be liable for tax on that $40k. 

 

The quote you give saying "income derived and brought into Thailand in the same year in which such income is earned" is still applicable.  However, many interpret it as meaning if you clearly have the money you remit into Thailand in a particular year already in your bank on January 1st then that is enough.  When, in fact, if you add money to that overseas account the same year as, and prior to, any remit, you can be taxed on the portion of that deposit that is remitted.  In their eyes, if you earned money that year (as inferred by the deposit) and remitted any of that money the same year, then you will be taxed on it.  I also note that, if I were a tax resident of my own country, or a number of other Western ones, I would be liable to declare and pay full taxes on any untaxed money deposited into an overseas bank account.  So I consider myself well ahead of the game in Thailand.  Although, the fact that the Revenue Department are flagging passports with Immigration may be a little worrying.

 

When I retired, my company retained my Thai tax ID, as they were paying tax for me, and had to do so at the end of the year I retired in.  With the introduction of CRS, my banks and brokerages in three different countries sent a similar form with, amongst other items, a request for my tax residency and current tax number.  There is an option to put "not required", but I thought it would be easier in the long term to give a tax number for Thailand, so I went to my district revenue office to get one.  AT first they asked why I needed it, and seemed inclined not to do it, however, I said I wanted to reclaim interest withholding tax, and they gave me an ID with the same number as my previous one, which makes sense.  They weren't interested in my visa, just wanted to see my passport and bank book showing interest payments and tax deducted.  It's just a piece of yellow paper, which they gave me dire warnings not to lose, so I've laminated it.  Try visiting your district revenue office and asking them.  (As someone said above, go to the district one, not the one for the Amphur you live in (if you live outside the Muang).  My Amphur tax office is most unhelpful).

 

That little yellow paper - long since lost despite lamination. I better find it or get a new one while I still have someone else to help with such errands. Thanks for the reminder.

 

Concerning what you were told, then the wise thing is to remit to Thailand annually at the beginning of the year if you have money coming into your overseas account regularly? I’d have thought that would look suspicious and wait until later in the year, but see I would pay for that in paperwork! It also seems like it would work if you sit money in an account set aside as for transferring money for Thailand. Again, I would have imagined that as suspicious but apparently not - just a time saver. 

 

Did you move between leaving work and finding out about the tax audit? Might they have sent a notice to the address they had for you? Or was that address they had your company address because you were filing at your employer’s district office? 

 

Thanks for sharing this tale - it is really helpful, although I still think your example will be misunderstood by some, if they don’t read the second paragraph to clarify. Unless you have a clear and easily documented source of income like a pension or taxed wages, keep that account free from deposits in the same year you transfer to Thailand, or prepare for a paperwork headache, is what I am reading. 

 

[tomazbodner]

What would happen if you sold stocks on last working day of the year, so the amount would only get transferred to Thailand first working day of next year?

[ballpoint]

42 minutes ago, Nonthaburi Boy said:

Concerning what you were told, then the wise thing is to remit to Thailand annually at the beginning of the year if you have money coming into your overseas account regularly? I’d have thought that would look suspicious and wait until later in the year, but see I would pay for that in paperwork! It also seems like it would work if you sit money in an account set aside as for transferring money for Thailand. Again, I would have imagined that as suspicious but apparently not - just a time saver. 

Yes.  I keep a separate account for remittance to Thailand.  I have a number of tax free investments overseas, and paying into this account at the end of the year and then remitting to Thailand the following year is a small price to pay to keep them that way.  It also makes it simple to keep track, and show exactly where the money came from, if I was ever audited again.  They weren't concerned with how many transfers I made, and for what amount, as long as I could account for each of them.  I made the first transfer of this year last week, as exchange rates look to be headed for the worse.  I'll transfer more later, though knowing my luck, the Baht will only get stronger. 

 

49 minutes ago, Nonthaburi Boy said:

Did you move between leaving work and finding out about the tax audit? Might they have sent a notice to the address they had for you? Or was that address they had your company address because you were filing at your employer’s district office? 

I still have my condo in Bangkok, though now spend most of my time up country, but they probably would have sent anything to my old employer.  I contacted them, and their tax accountants (PWC) once I heard about being flagged, and they had no idea why that was the case.  That's when I asked for clarification on what the local revenue office told me. My former employer also claim not to have received any mail for me, and I received none at the condo.  It appears as if the Revenue Department just flagged my passport with no prior warning.

 

This probably won't be an issue for the vast majority of people.  In the past I too used to transfer money to Thailand from an account that I was regularly being paid into, and nothing was said or done about it.  However, as I said in an earlier post, the fact that the Revenue Department get immigration involved when they think there is an issue may be concerning, and I wouldn't be surprised if, some time sooner or later, accounting for money brought into the country is made part of the visa extension process.

[Startmeup]

8 hours ago, ballpoint said:

If I remitted $60k in January, then deposited the $50k, and then remitted a further $40k that year, I would be liable for tax on that $40k. 

Some bullet point to see if I have interpreted correctly what you are saying. Please correct me if Im wrong and add anything Im missing. To be compliant;

 

Deposit into Sing acc before Jan 1st and Remit to Thai acc after Jan 1st. The FY is Jan-Dec so the deposit into Sing account has to be before Jan and remittance to Thailand after Jan 1st.

 

You can Make any amount of remittances to your Thai account from your Singapore account up to the value that was in the Sing account on Jan 1st but It's essential that Any deposit you make to your Sing bank account after Jan 1st is after you have remitted enough for the 12 months of living expenses to a Thai bank account for that year.

If you deposit any money into the Singapore account during that FY year but dont remit anything else that year, you are compliant. 

 

It is immaterial to Thai revenue when you earned the money you deposited into your Singapore bank account as long as its in the account before January. 

 

Am I missing anything?

[Startmeup]

9 hours ago, ballpoint said:

amongst other items, a request for my tax residency and current tax number.  There is an option to put "not required", but I thought it would be easier in the long term to give a tax number for Thailand,

I need to set up a new brokerage account now that I am claiming that I am a Thai resident for tax purposes. When I have the new brokerage account set up I will transfer my holdings from one account to the other. It's with IB and when setting up the new account they give a few options like you say for residency with one being not required or something along those lines. This was what I was going to tick.

 

 

9 hours ago, ballpoint said:

hey weren't interested in my visa, just wanted to see my passport and bank book showing interest payments and tax deducted.

I have a bank book but I dont understand its purpose? I got it when I opened up my Bangkok Bank account but haven't looked at it since. Nothing in my bank book will show any withholding tax. Did you get your Tax ID on the spot?

 

9 hours ago, ballpoint said:

ry visiting your district revenue office and asking them.  (As someone said above, go to the district one, not the one for the Amphur you live in (if you live outside the Muang).  My Amphur tax office is most unhelpful).

Im in Bangkok, I see there is a Revenue office in Phra Khanong or Khlong Toei District office, you think district would be better? Seen as the FY ended not long ago it might be a good time to ask.

Edited January 24, 2023 by Startmeup

[Startmeup]

29 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

In the past I too used to transfer money to Thailand from an account that I was regularly being paid into, and nothing was said or done about it. 

They only asked about proof for one financial year not a number of years?

 

[rimmae2]

9 hours ago, Startmeup said:

Im in Bangkok, I see there is a Revenue office in Phra Khanong or Khlong Toei District office, you think district would be better? Seen as the FY ended not long ago it might be a good time to ask.

Go to the office in the area that you live in. Your requirements seem to be simple and both offices that you mention and others in Bangkok should provide the service that you want.

[RupertIII]

12 hours ago, ballpoint said:

I have a number of tax free investments overseas

Could be to do with the CRS.

Since 2016 financial instituitions based in nearly every country are obliged to submit information including cash withdrawals, name of investor, country of tax residence with ID no. and investment valuation at the end of the preceeding year. This information in turn is then passed on to the investor's country's tax authorities. 

A list of countries signed up to the CRS can be found here https://www.oecd.org/about/ under the tab "Countries". 

 

13 hours ago, ballpoint said:

the fact that the Revenue Department get immigration involved when they think there is an issue may be concerning

I agree, I see no reason why thay shouldn't contact the individual involved in the first place and only then contact immigation, as a last resort, if they are unable to obtain a satisfactory conclusion. 

[ballpoint]

13 hours ago, Startmeup said:

Some bullet point to see if I have interpreted correctly what you are saying. Please correct me if Im wrong and add anything Im missing. To be compliant;

 

Deposit into Sing acc before Jan 1st and Remit to Thai acc after Jan 1st. The FY is Jan-Dec so the deposit into Sing account has to be before Jan and remittance to Thailand after Jan 1st.

 

You can Make any amount of remittances to your Thai account from your Singapore account up to the value that was in the Sing account on Jan 1st but It's essential that Any deposit you make to your Sing bank account after Jan 1st is after you have remitted enough for the 12 months of living expenses to a Thai bank account for that year.

If you deposit any money into the Singapore account during that FY year but dont remit anything else that year, you are compliant. 

 

It is immaterial to Thai revenue when you earned the money you deposited into your Singapore bank account as long as its in the account before January. 

 

Am I missing anything?

That is all correct, as it was explained to me.  

 

If you had $100k in an overseas account on January 1st, remit $50k any month up to, and including, November, and then transfer another $50k to your overseas account to top it up in December, no tax is payable.  (In theory, you could do the remit on December 30th and the deposit in your overseas account on December 31st, but I wouldn't want to sail that close to the wind.  I also get monthly statements, so it was far simpler to just provide months up to and including the last remit of the year and not show any after that).

 

If you had $100k in an overseas account on January 1st, transfer another $50k to that account in April and remit $50k to Thailand in June, you can be taxed the full $50k (if they check on you and you can't show that the $50k you deposited overseas was already taxed by a country they have a treaty with).  The way they see it is you had $100k in your account at the beginning of the year, you remitted $50k during the year, but still had $100k in the account after that remit.  Therefore that $50k was earned during the year.

 

Also, if you had $100k in an overseas account on January 1st, transfer another $100k to that account in April and remit $50k to Thailand in June, you may be taxed on the $50k you remitted, not the full $100k you deposited prior to the remit.

 

As I said, this was three years ago, and I haven't heard anything from them since.  In January each year I now get a full year's statement for my KBank account for the previous year and use a highlighting pen to mark the deposits.  I number each and then go through my Singapore bank statements, highlighting and numbering the corresponding remits.  They told me I didn't need to file a tax return each year, but, if they decide to audit me again, everything is documented.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2023 by ballpoint

[ballpoint]

12 hours ago, Startmeup said:

They only asked about proof for one financial year not a number of years?

 

They didn't ask about any year other than the previous one.

[Startmeup]

1 hour ago, ballpoint said:

That is all correct, as it was explained to me.  

 

If you had $100k in an overseas account on January 1st, remit $50k any month up to, and including, November, and then transfer another $50k to your overseas account to top it up in December, no tax is payable.  (In theory, you could do the remit on December 30th and the deposit in your overseas account on December 31st, but I wouldn't want to sail that close to the wind.  I also get monthly statements, so it was far simpler to just provide months up to and including the last remit of the year and not show any after that).

 

If you had $100k in an overseas account on January 1st, transfer another $50k to that account in April and remit $50k to Thailand in June, you can be taxed the full $50k (if they check on you and you can't show that the $50k you deposited overseas was already taxed by a country they have a treaty with).  The way they see it is you had $100k in your account at the beginning of the year, you remitted $50k during the year, but still had $100k in the account after that remit.  Therefore that $50k was earned during the year.

 

Also, if you had $100k in an overseas account on January 1st, transfer another $100k to that account in April and remit $50k to Thailand in June, you may be taxed on the $50k you remitted, not the full $100k you deposited prior to the remit.

 

As I said, this was three years ago, and I haven't heard anything from them since.  In January each year I now get a full year's statement for my KBank account for the previous year and use a highlighting pen to mark the deposits.  I number each and then go through my Singapore bank statements, highlighting and numbering the corresponding remits.  They told me I didn't need to file a tax return each year, but, if they decide to audit me again, everything is documented.

 

 

 

 

 

This is something I have been curious about for a long time so really appreciate your sharing of information on this.

[JimGant]

This gives a whole new dimension to the concept of LIFO vs. FIFO. Also, shows bureaucrats will trump the fungibility of money, if they can squeeze a taxable event out of it....

 

Actually, I'd have no problem with Thailand figuring out how to tax foreign income coming into Thailand, that tax treaties give them the right to tax. As a Yank, this would be a zero sum game for me, since what Thailand doesn't tax, Uncle Sam does. But, if Thailand finally does figure out how to take advantage of the tax treaties, Uncle Sam will match that tax with a credit. Thus, my fungible tax dollar/baht will go towards Thai infrastructure, not infrastructure in the Ozarks. Or go towards alleviating Thai poverty. Good, good.

 

But, with the rule about no taxation on income brought into Thailand in a later year in effect, not a lot is going to happen. Why? Because this rule primarily subsidizes fat cat Thais with business outside the country.