Thai Senator Calls For Stricter Thai Visa Rules

[dr_Pat_Pong]

There was a time, when you couldn't get in to Australia unless you had a criminal record....

The felons of that era dear Udon, ALL hailed from the British Kingdom as it was at that time,

[udon]

yes, my GGGGGGGrandfather got transported for stealing 40lb of lead and he married a girl sentenced to death for stealing a gold locket, she was lucky to get transported.

They were given land outsite of Sinney by gov bligh. not a bad bloke from reports i read in newspapers from 1812.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

yes, my GGGGGGGrandfather got transported for stealing 40lb of lead and he married a girl sentenced to death for stealing a gold locket, she was lucky to get transported.

They were given land outsite of Sinney by gov bligh. not a bad bloke from reports i read in newspapers from 1812.

40lbs ... jeez he was a crooked old bastard. If you look at the transportation era on google, some poor bastards were sent to Australia for knocking off a loaf of bread. A sympathetic lot were those early(ish) Brits. I still reckon they shagged it up; they should have left the baddies there and sent the goodies to the antipodes.

[Baaksida]

Baaksida: the man in the guardbooth at Her Majesty's Embassy (who looks Thai) is a Gurka from Nepal.

He will have done many years in one of the Gurka Regiments of the British Army, before retiring from 'active' soldiering and being selected as an Embassy guard.

Many who have served with the Gurkas (especially their British Officers), or who have seen them in battle, reckon they are the finest soldiers in the world.

Having trekked through the hills where they spent their boyhoods, and seen how hard life is there, I am not surprised that the best boys from there turn into superb soldiers.

Next time you are passing the Embassy, make your enquiry again. But this time start by saying "Namastay" (which is the Nepali equivalent of "Sawasdee"). You will receive the most delightful smile imaginable.

Thanks Martin!

Now that you're telling me, yes, he looked somewhat odd for a Thai, so my sincerest apologies to the fine Gurkas for confusing them with Thais!!

But I will use the Nepalese greeting next time...

[john b good]

And whilst on British MP's it would be extremly difficult to name just one who has acquired the infamy of many (very many) Thai politicians.

What is all this negativity about Thai politicians that posters automatically accept that they are dodgy and a Senator was refused because of his infamous criminal past?

The facts are if you are the owner of a house it is your perogative to invite into your house those persons of your choice.

The same applies with countries when they determine who can/cannot enter.

In both cases most law abiding people (house owners) and the majority of countries don't roll out the red carpet to persons of questionable reputation.

And those (the house owners) that do are generally guilty by association.

I suggest that Thailand cleans up it's own act in respect of immigration policies before it whines about the policies of developed, first world countries.

And remember you are comparing a banana country with one of the foremost countries in the western world.

Bottom line is that there ain't no comparison.

And there is no "automatic acceptance" that Thai politicians are dodgy. the facts speak for themselves.

It is a well known fact that if you leave the rotten apples in the barrel it's not long before the lot are rotten.

[brahmburgers]

Speaking of parity: Here are some of the things that a farang cannot do in Thailand, but a Thai national can do in the U.S.: Ok, owning land was already mentioned, how about:

2. getting hard-line phone service in your name

3. getting a motorcycle or any motorized vehicle in your name

4. getting a parcel address in your name.

5. starting a business without a small mountain of paperwork - and at best winding up with 49% ownership.

[PvtDick]

Speaking of parity: Here are some of the things that a farang cannot do in Thailand, but a Thai national can do in the U.S.: Ok, owning land was already mentioned, how about:

2. getting hard-line phone service in your name

3. getting a motorcycle or any motorized vehicle in your name

4. getting a parcel address in your name.

5. starting a business without a small mountain of paperwork - and at best winding up with 49% ownership.

Numbers 2, 3, and 4 can all be done by foreigners (as well as number 5, if you are an American). I should know; I have done them all!

The only rights I don't have compared to a Thai person are 1) to vote; and 2) to own land. The first goes without saying. The second, well, it's common in most 3rd world places, and I can't say I blame them. Otherwise the whole country would have been snapped up by the Japanese a long time ago. Anyway, there are ways around the land ownership thing that are well-known and commonly used.

[Martin]

Doc PP---it is a rare occasion, but for once I disagree with you.

Britain sent the best to the Antipodes---men who had the guts to rustle a sheep and slaughter it, when their wives and children were starving, even though they might swing for it. I hope I would be such a 'felon' in such circumstances.

And, in general, Britain kept the baddies---the downtreaders of the downtrodden.

[maerim]

As to to the Ghurkas they lost a court case in the UK a while back re pension rights.

Although they served along with soldiers from the UK and did what they were told when it came to handing their firearms in after 25 service or so they were in for a shock.

As their pensions were a fraction of the UK squaddies, ahh make one proud to be British, I don't think.

[Martin]

cutter007: you are right that expat professionals coming here to work on big projects are 'secure'---and, anyway, they can go their way whistling if local sentiment is against them, for there is always some job somewhere for those professionals who are prepared to 'hack it' far from home.

I remember in Singapore that the young graduates started moaning about expats being let in. Lee Kuan Yew himself tore a strip off them, and told them that Singapore needed our experience until the young Singapore professionals had dried off behind the ears.

It was really funny when I proposed to, and did, take a bunch of students to Nepal to study village hydro-electrification, and the potential earnings for Singapore firms to add it to their repertoires. The only supporters that my Head of Dept and I had were our students, our Principal, the Minister of Education and the new PM, Goh Chok Tong. Every other senior academic seemed to hate my guts for proposing something of which they had no experience during their own student days, and at which they might fail if it caught on. (This fear of being seen to fail at something, 'kai siew', is a big handicap to Singaporeans).

But it is totally different here in Thailand for us retirees, who want to see our time out in this personal Shangri La that we have found.

Some of us really do feel that we should behave as welcomable guests should behave, and that we should respect the facts that this is the Thai's land and this is their culture, and there is no percentage in getting up their noses by telling them that they should import the culture (aggressive, arrogant belligerence) that we are glad to have left behind.

[surfercaesar]

TOUCHE!!!! Senator!!!!!

[DaveYo]

Hmmm, interesting thought as to the words of Football vs Soccer. I do believe if I remember correctly some time ago, that the National Football League patented that name in US. From what I do know, once a name is patented one cannot use it for other purposes. It is considered Secured domain or Name being used by said individual or organization.

Recently there has been lawsuits of the kind in the USA. Now from what I understand also Britain never patented this name prior to USA. That is the point I am mentioning.

Say for example I want to start a Business using it like this Express Microsoft Packaging Service. Guess what, you can bet Microsoft will be breathing down my neck. "Microsoft" ditto is a patented name by that company.

Still besides the point. The two balls are totally different. Yes I see on Rugby they can bounce the same featured football and continue to run with it but notice the way it is designed. You cannot bounce an American football the same way and be able to continue to run, cause it will obviously change directions.

An intriguing part though.

As of the foreigners financing the Governments projects such as the subway or skytrain, or airports, that is not the case at all. Most of that funding is paid from their own kitties. Airports are financed for the most part from the Airline carriers believe it or not. Only a small percentage is paid from the city or government.

Who do you think pays for the air traffic controllers, or for the maintenance of such planes or airport in general, or for the police security??????? There are landing fees, fuel fees, take off fees, terminal service fees, storage fees, and so on and so forth. And don't forget airport to airport taxes, which is applied to your air fare ticket, including your departure taxes too.

I will leave the rest of you folks to figure it out.

Daveyo

[KenUdon]

I suggest that Thailand cleans up it's own act in respect of immigration policies before it whines about the policies of developed, first world countries.

And remember you are comparing a banana country with one of the foremost countries in the western world.

Bottom line is that there ain't no comparison.

Couldn't agree more.........EXCEPT that.........

Seem to remember Thaksin was over there recently!! While we are talking about corruption, dishonesty, and undesirables, if they let HIM in, they must be pretty lax...haha

[Martin]

daveyo: I think cutler007 was talking about the expat professionals who manage the design and construction of the big infrastructure projects, not the financing of them.

[john b good]

Speaking of parity: Here are some of the things that a farang cannot do in Thailand, but a Thai national can do in the U.S.: Ok, owning land was already mentioned, how about:

2. getting hard-line phone service in your name

3. getting a motorcycle or any motorized vehicle in your name

4. getting a parcel address in your name.

5. starting a business without a small mountain of paperwork - and at best winding up with 49% ownership.

This has already been responded to......but,

The thing that never ceases to amaze me is just where these people get their information from or from who.

It's almost as if they get off a plane at Don Muang, take a bus to Khao san Road, drop off their backpack in some doss house and go out to bask in the ambience of Bangkok.

They get into a bar where some drunk dropout (from somewhere) is holding court on everything about Thailand (notwithstanding that he himself had only arrived a couple of days earlier)

Admittedly this drunk wouldn't be able to get in Thailand (or even in his home country for that matter as he would not have had a regular address, and they don't hard wire phones to park benches do they)

The absolute sh1t that some people quote is beyond me.

Whilst I don't necessarily agree with everything that George and the doc might contribute I do believe that it is fortunate that they are here with their "deeper" knowledge. (and admittedly there are others who have acquired that knowledge)

I just hope 'brahmburgers' that you are not a part time contributor to the compilation of the "Lonely Planet" or another like publications.

[boris]

Some of us really do feel that we should behave as welcomable guests should behave, and that we should respect the facts that this is the Thai's land and this is their culture, and there is no percentage in getting up their noses by telling them that they should import the culture (aggressive, arrogant belligerence) that we are glad to have left behind.

Anyone who knows Thailand at all recognises that aggressive and arrogant belligerence can be found here in spades, easily equalling the West. but usually disguised by a veneer of civility.This doesn't mean I am not fond of nor lacking in respect for the country but one does wonder from time to time whether some posters ever bother to look underneath the tinselly Thai surface.

[BKK_banger]

An intriguing part though.

As of the foreigners financing the Governments projects such as the subway or skytrain, or airports, that is not the case at all. Most of that funding is paid from their own kitties. Airports are financed for the most part from the Airline carriers believe it or not. Only a small percentage is paid from the city or government.

Who do you think pays for the air traffic controllers, or for the maintenance of such planes or airport in general, or for the police security??????? There are landing fees, fuel fees, take off fees, terminal service fees, storage fees, and so on and so forth. And don't forget airport to airport taxes, which is applied to your air fare ticket, including your departure taxes too.

Daveyo

Sorry Daveyo but you may not be fully informed.

The subway was opened to great fanfare on Saturday and I saw only Thais on the TV programming (admittedly I did not watch the first bit at Hua Lamphong) as they congratulated themselves on a job well done.

When His Majesty, who is a smart and well informed person, was shown detailed explanations of some of the technical triumphs he turned round to the MRTA Governor and asked, "Who built this?"

With a straight face the Governor replied, 'Khon Thai"

Hah haha hahaha ahhah aha aha aha ahhhhhh.

He got a funny look from His Majesty.

The land was the only thing paid for by the Thais as the Japanese worried about being ripped off. The Japanese Bank of International Cooperation paid for the infrastructure 100%. The Operator has got some trade deal with Siemens of Germany for the trains etc.

The truth is that the Thais put in very little money and no technical expertise. It was built by foreigners and financed by foreign money.

I am not saying anything against this. A subway is a highly technical and difficult piece of construction and foreign experts and companies were needed to make it successful. What does amuse me is that the Thais fall over themselves to deny this is so.

[maerim]

With a straight face the Governor replied, 'Khon Thai"

Hah haha hahaha ahhah aha aha aha ahhhhhh

Well for a start the shield that cuts the tunnels was driven by a friend of mine who has worked all over the world and he is a Brit.

As he also drove the shield on the channel tunnel so I think umless he achieved Thai citizenship there is at least one Farang who helped build it.

[Martin]

boris: some of us not only look beneath the 'tinselly surface' but actually live beneath it.

Yes, siamese culture is presentational and superficial and, at times amongst many people, quite nastily hierarchical and arrogant.

But it isn't going to help if we get up people's noses by being conceited, or even just 'starry-eyed', about farang culture(s).

[robsamui]

National HONOUR???

Stamping your foot and having a petulant tantrum is not exactly "honourable"! The problem is that a)Thai men and b)Thai politicians consider themselves to be a)god-like and b)BIG fish (in a teensy weensy pond)

Having been a career teacher for 24 years and having taught 9-11 years olds, I am constantly reminded of playground squabbles and the reaction and behaviour of these children when I read (oh so frequently) these depressingly immature, selfish and short-sighted responses from supposedly mature males that are instrumental in deciding Thai internal and national policy.

Honour? Perhaps a little more awareness of DIGNITY would be more in order?

Rob

[PvtDick]

So Thai politicians act like American and British pop stars -- think their shit don't smell. What else is new?

[DaveYo]

I stand corrected. Yes I too saw that funny look when the answer was given on TV. For me to comment of the possiblilities of his thinking I don't think such will be allowed here in this forum.

One thing I do believe I can safely say is this. He might have thought "" We did it Again??????"

Daveyo

[ludosiam]

well, Khun Thaksin and friends have been there quite a few times recently, seems they didn't had any problems at all, hehe.

Mahasarakam, local politician from the middle of nowhere! and expecting a special treatment - sorry. If the purpose of his visit was an official one, he's right to complain. If not - shut up and go in the queue.

I am currently in the progress of renewing my one years visa, coming from Korat. 8 hours travelling just to hear what I know already - papers not yet approved, please come back next month. I can't complain about it, it's the way it goes.

Another assumption: maybe has was drunk when applying for the visa?

[boris]

If one was to look into the background of many Thai politicians you would be likely to find a good and sufficient reason to decline them a visa (apart that is, for a visa for Burma perhaps)

And whilst on British MP's it would be extremly difficult to name just one who has acquired the infamy of many (very many) Thai politicians.

What is all this negativity about Thai politicians that posters automatically accept that they are dodgy and a Senator was refused because of his infamous criminal past?

And if you were the joker in front of me in the queue on May 26th looking for a settlement visa for his nice young boyfriend then shame on you. Don't you know you need photos for the form? And how about the other 4kg of documents, you only had the form.

My wife got a settlement visa in 2 weeks and was not even interviewed as such. They only asked where her marriage certificate was in the files of info and when she wanted to go. Always be prepared....

I have some sympathy for the Thai Senator although his reaction was no doubt OTT.Given that lowlife Brits can come to Thailand any time they like, it must be galling for well established Thais to be treated to the third degree (or feel this is a possibility) every time they want to visit the UK.As far as I know Thais have not been a problem in the UK as overstayers so I don't see the difficulty with agreeing some form of a reciprocal arrangement.

[francois]

LOL

just like a very famous Nigerian musician who died a few years ago said in one song ....

"you gimme sh$t, I give you sh$t"

just to say that they get back what they deserve

nice joke ... made my day

francois

[Yohan]

Mahasarakam, local politician from the middle of nowhere! and expecting a special treatment - sorry. If the purpose of his visit was an official one, he's right to complain. If not - shut up and go in the queue.

This story is rather incomplete, and it is impossible to judge, what really happened.

1- Which passport did he use to apply for the visa: ordinary, service or diplomatic?

2- What kind of visa did he apply for: tourist, business, diplomatic.....

3- Were his forms complete? Something missing? Any service passport/diplomatic passport requires a note verbale of the related Thai ministry or related official organisation, even if he is not on official duty, but travelling as a tourist!

4- Did he mention any reason why he was refused? Did he apply again? With different forms?

Usually, diplomatic and service passports are handled differently from the ordinary passports in EVERY embassy. They are delivered by the related organisation or the Foreign Ministry with a note verbale by a messenger and it is NOT the usual way to show up personally at the beginning of the procedure.

In case, personal meeting is requested, an appointment is made in advance for consultation with a senior diplomat.

Depending on the reason of application, it might take 1 hour (just entering as tourist) or up to several weeks for approval (accreditation of a new diplomat), this depends widely on the relationship between the concerned countries.

Every country has a black-list about unwanted persons, this includes diplomats and has the right to reject applications.

Screening for diplomats is much stricter as they enjoy diplomatic immunity. Once approved to enter, he cannot be kept responsible for any wrongdoing, and the only step, the host country can do, is to expel him and to blacklist him.

Visa for diplomatic and service passports are always free of charge....as a matter of courtesy between all countries due to international agreements. Same with related driving licences, tax-free permits, diplomatic ID card....there is NO FEE for such applications.

[lopburi3]

Screening for diplomats is much stricter as they enjoy diplomatic immunity. Once approved to enter, he cannot be kept responsible for any wrongdoing, and the only step, the host country can do, is to expel him and to blacklist him.

We should note that most persons traveling on diplomatic passports do not enjoy immunity. It is the position, not the passport, that provides immunity. For the USA this is the current status per DOS.

http://www.state.gov/m/ds/immunities/c9127.htm

[dr_Pat_Pong]

National HONOUR???

Stamping your foot and having a petulant tantrum is not exactly "honourable"! The problem is that a)Thai men and b)Thai politicians consider themselves to be a)god-like and b)BIG fish (in a teensy weensy pond)

Having been a career teacher for 24 years and having taught 9-11 years olds, I am constantly reminded of playground squabbles and the reaction and behaviour of these children when I read (oh so frequently) these depressingly immature, selfish and short-sighted responses from supposedly mature males that are instrumental in deciding Thai internal and national policy.

Honour? Perhaps a little more awareness of DIGNITY would be more in order?

Rob

and the childishness shines through. Go read the professional input of the so called teachers on Ajarn.

[Yohan]

We should note that most persons traveling on diplomatic passports do not enjoy immunity.

Sorry, this is wrong.

All diplomats and some administrative staff and technical staff of an embassy or diplomatic-level staff of international organisations have full diplomatic status

...to proof their status, they have diplomatic passports ... and they have full diplomatic immunity.

This position is written in the diplomatic passport and confirmed by the required note verbale of the related organisation, if a diplomat requests a visa for whatever reason. This includes private trips as well.

This diplomatic status is accepted by the other nation by issuing the visa or by visafree-bilateral agreements between that two countries.

It is the position, not the passport, that provides immunity.

His present position is explained in details in the DIPLOMATIC passport, otherwise it is not a valid diplomatic passport.

A diplomat cannot be arrested, cannot be detained, cannot be prosecuted.

You cannot enter his home for search, and you cannot search his diplomatic car.

You have to give him access beyond the passport-control restricted area in the airport.

Any other person, like a honorary consul, diplomatic service staff or support staff of international organisations is not supposed to hold a diplomatic passport.

Some have service passports, many have ordinary passports....and they are not diplomats....

Back to the original subject: What kind of passport had this Thai politician? What other documents did he provide?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Most senior Ministers of most countries are accorded diplomatic passports, and in many cases, so are their wives.