US Topic: Can your social security address be in Thailand and your Medicare address be in the U.S.? (Possible use of Medicare Advantage living abroad!)

[Jingthing]

Many of us use a Thai address for social security and I'm assuming those that do also use the same Thai address for Medicare (when over 65),

 

OR vice versa, U.S. address for BOTH. 

 

But suppose you have both using your Thai address (as I do), but you only want to change Medicare to a U.S. address (like the address of a friend or relative)?

 

Why? Well believe it or not if you use a U.S. address for SS and you're actually living abroad it is technically fraud and could potentially lead to frozen benefits. Of course many people do use a US address that shouldn't in order to avoid the "proof of life" letter thingo. 

 

I guess using a US address for Medicare could also be seen as fraud, but that's not what I'm asking here (yet anyway, first things first).

 

Could you just change the Medicare address to US without changing the Social Security address? Or do you have to deal with SS to do such an address change in which case the different addresses obviously look very fishy?  Also, if they were different (Thai for one / US for another), wouldn't Social Security discover that and possibly cause a problem?

 

Why am I asking? You can have a foreign address and enroll in Part B Medicare but you MUST have a U.S. address to enroll in Medicare Advantage.

 

Now why would an expat want to enroll in Medicare Advanage?

 

Well, I recently found out there is a way to get SOME of the benefits of Medicare Advantage while living abroad (big ones actually) by enrolling in a few specific Medicare Advantage plans. Not all. Some.

 

Amazing huh?

 

But personally I have the problem of not having U.S. addresses with either SS or Medicare.

 

 

 

Edited February 28, 2023 by Jingthing

[TravelerEastWest]

Good question...

[ricklev]

Interesting!  I will be turning 65 in a year and have been curious about that.  Seems like you have to have six months per year in the USA for any Advantage benefits? I did read this the other day:  https://internationalliving.com/everything-you-need-to-know-about-medicare-overseas/

Edited February 28, 2023 by ricklev

[Jingthing]

29 minutes ago, ricklev said:

Interesting!  I will be turning 65 in a year and have been curious about that.  Seems like you have to have six months per year in the USA for any Advantage benefits? I did read this the other day:  https://internationalliving.com/everything-you-need-to-know-about-medicare-overseas/

This is about a possible way to use part of Advantage without that requirement. 

But a US address is required.

 

Have you claimed social security yet?

[bluebluewater]

Of those Medicare advantage plans I have looked at any benefit for overseas use is very limited if allowed at all. TBS I have not looked at all of them but please remember that those that are available are specific to the address in the county of the state that you would be using in the US.  

[Jingthing]

OK.

It's time to share what I'm talking about.

Yes something quite new.

You need to watch this video.

I am assuming but not yet certain that this tactic would work for American expats anywhere even though they are addressing expats in Mexico and Panama.

 

 

 

[Jingthing]

Just now, bluebluewater said:

Of those Medicare advantage plans I have looked at any benefit for overseas use is very limited if allowed at all. TBS I have not looked at all of them but please remember that those that are available are specific to the address in the county of the state that you would be using in the US.  

Watch the video.

[bluebluewater]

Fill your boots.  I'm sure we will all be anxious to hear your experience in declaring an emergency for whatever reason and after receiving full treatment how your claim turned out under your Medicare advantage plan.  Truely, I hope it works out for you.

Edited February 28, 2023 by bluebluewater

[Jingthing]

13 minutes ago, bluebluewater said:

Fill you boots.  I'm sure we will all be anxious to hear your experience in declaring an emergency for whatever reason and after receiving full treatment how your claim turned out under your Medicare advantage plan.  Truely, I hope it works out for you.

Not sure why you posted like that.

I don't have a US address on record with Medicare or Social Security.

As stated, the U.S. address on record with MEDICARE is a REQUIREMENT to even get started with this.

 

Now that the cat is out of the bag, the concept here is that the agent in this video who's an American expat in Mexico can steer people to a few SPECIFIC Medicare Advantage plans where expats can get these benefits.  Not all plans. Not most plans. Some plans.

He seems very confident that this is legit and would be valid claims if they meet the criteria which he details. Yes, it's complicated and I would agree skepticism is well in order for all of this!

 

BTW. to everyone that feels compelled to tear this idea down, and that is perfectly fine with me if you do, please FIRST watch the video, so we are coming from the same place of understanding of what the issues are here.

 

I will add for any people that don't already know. If you want to enroll in Advantage (which yes is generally NOT for expats) you must first enroll in Part B and pay for that which is now about 170 dollars monthly which is taken from your social security check if you have an active claim. As stated before expats without a U.S. address can enroll in Part B (but can't be used abroad) but a U.S. address is needed to enroll in Advantage (which also NORMALLY can't be used abroad but this video suggests that with the right plans in some important ways it can be used). 

Edited February 28, 2023 by Jingthing

[CartagenaWarlock]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

OK.

It's time to share what I'm talking about.

Yes something quite new.

You need to watch this video.

I am assuming but not yet certain that this tactic would work for American expats anywhere even though they are addressing expats in Mexico and Panama.

 

 

 

The Worldtips.com plan appears excellent. For 365-day I (60 years old) was quoted approx $1500 for for $500,000 max with $500 deductible. I am also a big fan of high deductible as I carry a health savings account with a debit Master Card. 

One thing I did not quite get from the video was the  Medicare Advantage plan that covered emergency medical care outside the USA and the the zip code location that was available.  

[Jingthing]

11 minutes ago, CartagenaWarlock said:

The Worldtips.com plan appears excellent. For 365-day I (60 years old) was quoted approx $1500 for for $500,000 max with $500 deductible. I am also a big fan of high deductible as I carry a health savings account with a debit Master Card. 

One thing I did not quite get from the video was the  Medicare Advantage plan that covered emergency medical care outside the USA and the the zip code location that was available.  

Yes he talks about an alternative to Medicare Advantage that sounds interesting as well.

 

Yet many expats do pay for Part B even though useless abroad so it sounded more exciting that there could be expat benefits with Advantage. 

 

I don't understand your latter comment. Yes with the required US address your US service area is determined. But we are talking here about getting value from this living abroad.

Edited February 28, 2023 by Jingthing

[CartagenaWarlock]

Just now, Jingthing said:

don't understand your latter comment. Yes with the required US address your US service area is determined. But we are talking here about getting value from this living abroad.

My question is Advantage plan is zip code specific (unlike medicare gap), how do I know if the advantage plan he is talking about is available in my zip code?

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, CartagenaWarlock said:

My question is Advantage plan is zip code specific (unlike medicare gap), how do I know if the advantage plan he is talking about is available in my zip code?

OK, I get your question now.

You would need to contact the broker in the video as a typical broker would have no idea about this issue (Advantage for expats). 

You would need to tell him your zip code and then he can tell you what plans are available for this goal.

He will advise if using it for this to drop all other Medicare supplements except A and paying for B. 

Also note as he mentions in the video IF anyone has Part A but has not paid for Part B, they will first need to enroll in Part B and they will be subject to a PENALTY for each year they haven't paid for it.

I have not contacted him but if you do (or anyone else for that matter) can you ask him if my assumption is correct, that his suggested tactic would be just as apt for expats in Thailand, etc. as it is for Mexico and Panama.

If for some reason not, then of course forget about this idea, but as you said he suggests another option that may be of interest to many.

 

 

Edited February 28, 2023 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

To the person(s) using the Sad and Confused emojis, can you please just POST and say what you're confused about? 

[CartagenaWarlock]

19 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

OK, I get your question now.

You would need to contact the broker in the video as a typical broker would have no idea about this issue (Advantage for expats). 

You would need to tell him your zip code and then he can tell you what plans are available for this goal.

He will advise if using it for this to drop everything except A and paying for B. 

I have not contacted him but if you do (or anyone else for that matter) can you ask him if my assumption is correct, that his suggested tactic would be just as apt for expats in Thailand, etc. as it is for Mexico and Panama.

If for some reason not, then of course forget about this idea, but as you said he suggests another option that may be of interest to many.

I am not 65 yet but was trying to understand how it works. I will pass the information to my friend who will be 65 next year and was also looking to retire outside the US.

 

The alternative plan (worldtrips) intrigued me. I will do a little more research and read on their websites if it includes emergency evacuation to the USA and may be send them an email. I already have a high deductible (approx $7000 deductible) health plan purchased through ACA. It's a PPO and pays 50% of all expenses outside the USA. The world trips plan costs <$100/month (for full year coverage in Thailand with for 100K USD coverage and $500 deductible). I will now divide my time between USA and Thailand. So thinking maybe I can I add this to my existing ACA plan. 

 

Thanks for sharing the info. 

Edited February 28, 2023 by CartagenaWarlock

[ricklev]

9 hours ago, Jingthing said:

This is about a possible way to use part of Advantage without that requirement. 

But a US address is required.

 

Have you claimed social security yet?

Thanks.  I am 63 and have not claimed social security.   Actually, I am still 3 quarters shy but will pay self employment tax this year to reach 40 quarters.   I  am worried about future healthcare expenses and insurance as I age.   I've been in Thailand now for 25 years and have Thai private insurance that will not cover me past 70.  It's not such a great policy anyway.  Currently only about 40,000 baht per year though with a 10,000 baht deductible for 5,000,000 baht coverage with a lot of limitations on that 5,000,000.  I expect pretty serious premium increases when I turn 65.

 

I did watch the video and thought it was interesting that he says unequivocally that you do not need to be in the USA to enroll in a Medicare Advantage plan although clearly you need a USA address.  I guess he can answer your question about the differing addresses.  

 

I've kind of been thinking about returning to Hawaii when I turn 65 and health insurance is one of the deciding factors.  I will still have to work unfortunately.  I've spent the last twenty years minimally employed teaching at a Thai university.  Many years ago I took the Hawaii bar exam to give myself the option of returning and working in my old age.  Unfortunately, I did not factor in how unappealing having a job would seem in my sixties.  ???? 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 1, 2023 by ricklev

[Jingthing]

The responses here underline the fact that reactions to this maybe possible use of Advantage for Expats depends very much on your specific situation. 

 

Such as --

Your current age

What benefits you might bring into retirement (such as military, employer carryovers, etc.)

What age you start SS and whether you've started it yet.

Using a Thai or US address?

Your history with Medicare if you are 65 plus. Using a Thai or US address? Have you been paying Part B? Have you paying supplements if using a US address?

I  could go on.

 

As I'm not an AI bot and can't possibly cover every situation, I did start this topic by relating it to my situation, but of course my situation is my situation and there are many other situations that would change how to approach things.

 

My situation:

Took an early SS claim

Thai address

Part A Medicare started at 65.

I opted into Part B (to avoid penalties if I repatriate) also at age 65.

Cost is now about 170 per month (down the drain). 

 

[Jingthing]

Truth in posting:

Be clear is as yet NOT CONFIRMED that the plans this broker is selling to expats in Mexico and Panama will work the same or at all in Thailand.

So if it turns out not, then y'all can ignore all of this EXCEPT the part in his video where he makes an alternative insurance suggestion for those under 65, which if Advantage didn't work in Thailand would apply to over 65 as well.

[Jingthing]

8 hours ago, CartagenaWarlock said:

I am not 65 yet but was trying to understand how it works. I will pass the information to my friend who will be 65 next year and was also looking to retire outside the US.

 

The alternative plan (worldtrips) intrigued me. I will do a little more research and read on their websites if it includes emergency evacuation to the USA and may be send them an email. I already have a high deductible (approx $7000 deductible) health plan purchased through ACA. It's a PPO and pays 50% of all expenses outside the USA. The world trips plan costs <$100/month (for full year coverage in Thailand with for 100K USD coverage and $500 deductible). I will now divide my time between USA and Thailand. So thinking maybe I can I add this to my existing ACA plan. 

 

Thanks for sharing the info. 

Yes.

I am considering the alternative plan because I'm not sure I want to take the risk of playing with changing SS and Medicare addresses as I've been Thai based so long and the address I would use is just a friend's address, I fear it would be red flagged as potential fraud. 

 

This information on Advantage may be cleaner for people who have not made a SS claim yet.

They could start with a US address, avoid proof of life letters, then at 65 enroll in Part B also with their US address and buy an Advantage plan from this broker IF it works in Thailand!

Then if they get flagged it might be seen as more innocent than changing later just to use this insurance tactic. 

[frantick]

A full-time expat claiming a US address to acquire an Advantage plan that, I'm assuming, covers your "travels" to foreign countries sounds like a bigger fraud than a full-time expat claiming a US address and paying $170 per month to the government for zero benefits to the expat. 

 

But you be you. 

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, frantick said:

A full-time expat claiming a US address to acquire an Advantage plan that, I'm assuming, covers your "travels" to foreign countries sounds like a bigger fraud than a full-time expat claiming a US address and paying $170 per month to the government for zero benefits to the expat. 

 

But you be you. 

That's a very weird post because to enroll in Part B you don't need a U.S. address. Yes for expats like me enrolled in Part B, that's about 170 a month for nothing. 

 

But for Advantage you do need a U.S. address and you still pay for Part B.

 

Not sure if you're American but I'd say the majority of U.S. expats play some kinds of games claiming a U.S. address of a relative or friend for such things as banking and credit cards. etc.

 

My information says a majority of expats in Colombia use their U.S. address for Social Security because there really isn't postal service in Colombia so complying with the proof of life letters is very problematical. 

 

I really don't mind that you're saying that using a US address for Social Security and/or Medicare is a kind of fraud. I wouldn't really argue with you. But so is lying to banks, etc. What are the consequences if found out? Arguably nothing or minimal. 

 

It's something for each expat to consider every time they use a U.S. address when they actually live abroad. I'm not the morality police and neither are you. 

[frantick]

No, I'm not the morality police either, I only replied to the one questioning that morality. 

 

As far as my own view, US gov, and banks, I'm on a multi-year travel holiday. ???? I do have a home base in the US with family. 

 

Nothing I am doing is costing the gov or the banks a penny. In the case of the gov, they are actually making money from me via ineligible insurance (Part B) premiums and taxes, of course. (they'd get the taxes either way, I suppose) Banks are making money from my credit card's 3% charge to vendors and the temporary use of my savings and IRA CD's dollars. 

 

If it becomes an issue then I'll just travel (move) back; easy peasy. But, because dollars are involved, I don't think it will. Then again, I have been known to be wrong occasionally. ????

 

Like you, I wish there were good Healthcare options for old expats in Thailand, but there aren't. If there were, I'd make this a permanent home. 

 

[StevoLe]

This is from my online Medicare account.  SS and Medicare address are linked.

 

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, StevoLe said:

This is from my online Medicare account.  SS and Medicare address are linked.

 

Thanks for that.

I suspected as much but good to see it confirmed. 

[Jingthing]

(No) update. 

I don't have an answer yet about usability of the Medicare Advantage tactic and the independent Atlas Insurance in Thailand the same as in Mexico and Panama. 

[Jingthing]

On 3/4/2023 at 4:59 PM, Jingthing said:

(No) update. 

I don't have an answer yet about usability of the Medicare Advantage tactic and the independent Atlas Insurance in Thailand the same as in Mexico and Panama. 

Confirmed that you can enroll in these plans for use internationally excluding North Korea and Ukraine so that includes Thailand  ha ha.

 

Medicare Advantage or Atlas.

 

You need to state a US residencial address for both options. 

 

[taxout]

Research this on POMS, the SocSec rulebook, and you'll find that a mailing address in the MA plan's service area is not enough. It must be your permanent residential address and the insuror is supposed to get documentary evidence of this when you sign up.

 

Further, when MA plans do provide some international coverage they only provide it during your first two months overseas.

 

In short, it's a non-starter for those living in Thailand.

 

If anyone has any doubts about this, I'll let them do the research themselves.

 

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, taxout said:

Research this on POMS, the SocSec rulebook, and you'll find that a mailing address in the MA plan's service area is not enough. It must be your permanent residential address and the insuror is supposed to get documentary evidence of this when you sign up.

 

Further, when MA plans do provide some international coverage they only provide it during your first two months overseas.

 

In short, it's a non-starter for those living in Thailand.

 

If anyone has any doubts about this, I'll let them do the research themselves.

 

There are some Advantage plans offering travel coverage all year.

Watch the video.

As far as showing evidence on sign-up of the stated US address the video is addressed to expats living outside the US and only the need for a US address is mentioned not evidence needed. Maybe you're right about that.

However I agree overall this is not a good idea to pursue especially from Thailand.

People in Mexico are more likely to have more connection to their US address than in  faraway Thailand

 

 

[gk10012001]

On 2/28/2023 at 11:49 AM, bluebluewater said:

Fill your boots.  I'm sure we will all be anxious to hear your experience in declaring an emergency for whatever reason and after receiving full treatment how your claim turned out under your Medicare advantage plan.  Truely, I hope it works out for you.

Somewhat related, Medicare supposedly will reimburse overseas Emergency medical issues/services.  I don't mean just some advantage plans.  I just started Medicare this year.  Still living in the USA.  I got the AARP Medicare advantage plan for basic drug and dental coverage and it cost 0.0.  As you probably know, Medicare B premiums are based on income, MAGI income to be precise.  My future retired USA location in the future is not clear yet.  Interesting to hear the discussions mention 6 months of a year in country USA for the Advantage plans to work.  Planning on fully punching out and hanging up my engineering shingle this November.  Just in time for a fun High Season in Thailand