Solar Pump. What will happen in this case?

[MJCM]

20 hours ago, Crossy said:

Please don't lose sight of the fact that this is a 750W DC pump, your regular level switches will fail almost immediately switching DC. It's not insurmountable of course but there's a whole thread about automating this particular set-up.

 

And then we even haven't talked about the Controller. Does it support this?

 

Edit: That is why I said in the OP, don't suggest making the PUMP automatic. (But as usual people ignored that)

Edited March 12, 2023 by MJCM

[Muhendis]

Have you considered the Automatic (sorry) Syphon approach.

When the water in the tank gets too high, the syphon will start draining water out 'til the water level gets to the bottom of the syphon inlet.

No power needed but I have no idea where to get or how to make one.

They can be found as science projects on google.

[farmerjo]

Can't you put a t-piece and riser on inlet side so when tank is nearly full it flows out the riser.

[Muhendis]

10 minutes ago, farmerjo said:

Can't you put a t-piece and riser on inlet side so when tank is nearly full it flows out the riser.

That's a good idea in conjunction with a ballcock. The riser would need a spring loaded relief valve to ensure that the pump can't misdirect water out through it under normal tank filling conditions.

The scenario would be that the tank fills. The ballcock closes. Pumped water pressure overcomes relief valve and pump merrily carries on working without undue stress. The relief valve could be at the pump end of the pipe so that pumped but unwanted water can return to the lake.

Oh. Wait a minute. I think I already said that..................????

[sandyf]

On 3/10/2023 at 10:15 AM, MJCM said:

Suppose we install a Ball Valve in Holding Tank and we forget to turn off the Solar Pump.

 

Will there be a problem with the Solar Pump that stays on?

You would need a pressure switch between the pump and the ball valve.

[farmerjo]

56 minutes ago, farmerjo said:

Can't you put a t-piece and riser on inlet side so when tank is nearly full it flows out the riser.

Actually thinking a bit more about it,you would need the inlet to tank at the bottom for it to work.

So you would still need another hole in the tank which in that case easier just to put overflow hole at the top.

Holesaw a hole, 2" male and female fittings and a small packet of epoxy glue.

[Crossy]

2 hours ago, MJCM said:

And then we even haven't talked about the Controller. Does it support this?

Edit: That is why I said in the OP, don't suggest making the PUMP automatic. (But as usual people ignored that)

 

You could use a solid-state relay to swich the panel side of the controller (did we think of that last time?) then it would work just like night time. You'd still have to run a cable from the tank (level switch) and provide 6-12V to run the relay (a 6V lantern battery would last forever)

[degrub]

At least everyone would know when the battery died ….

[MJCM]

20 minutes ago, farmerjo said:

Holesaw a hole, 2" male and female fittings and a small packet of epoxy glue.

Just thinking out loud here.

 

One problem maybe, because the Pump is that strong wouldn't that cause the water to come from under the lid as well.

 

When the Sun is really out,  you can hear the water flowing in when standing outside the house and that is a good 20-30 meters from the Tank!

 

But no time to implement this is A) The guys laying the pipes / doing the work are not available B) We are already leaving in 1 or 2 days ????

[farmerjo]

2 minutes ago, MJCM said:

Just thinking out loud here.

 

One problem maybe, because the Pump is that strong wouldn't that cause the water to come from under the lid as well.

 

When the Sun is really out,  you can hear the water flowing in when standing outside the house and that is a good 20-30 meters from the Tank!

 

But no time to implement this is A) The guys laying the pipes / doing the work are not available B) We are already leaving in 1 or 2 days ????

Yes you would need to do a bucket test to get size of overflow right.

Your phone calls are best idea till you get back.

It is fun to experiment on these projects.

Myself i would make the inlet in the bottom but it would also be the outlet with two valves.

T-piece and riser back at lake for overflow.

Restriction being you can't use the tank while filling.

Saying that if he can't remember to turn pump off he might get confused with two valves.

 

[degrub]

For the overflow return,  knowing the inlet flow, the height between the overflow nozzle and the top hat relief ( max driving force for return without overflow out top hat) , pressure drop from pump discharge to fill inlet, & pump head curve,  one could predict the line size required to prevent overflow out the top hat. 
 

To minimize the increase, just run the overflow return from the chosen height to ground level and use a trench back to the pond. My guess would be a 4 or 6 inch might do it.

Edited March 12, 2023 by degrub
Clarify

[SomchaiDIY]

3 hours ago, MJCM said:

And then we even haven't talked about the Controller. Does it support this?

 

Edit: That is why I said in the OP, don't suggest making the PUMP automatic. (But as usual people ignored that)

if your pump have the brushless electronic control you can use auto control conection if require

if you not want automatic pump control best forget this

top of tank often lift or fall off if tank is over fill because strong hydraulics forces on tank top

best leave tank top loose and make better fix when have time 

 

 

if your pump have the electronic control + later you like to make automatic system
here i show auto control float switch at control box

 

 

 

[MJCM]

4 hours ago, farmerjo said:

Myself i would make the inlet in the bottom but it would also be the outlet with two valves.

T-piece and riser back at lake for overflow.

 

That would be a good idea.

 

4 hours ago, farmerjo said:

Restriction being you can't use the tank while filling.

Why NOT?

 

Edit: I do understand it now, because when the water stops flowing into the tank, the tank would then be automatically be drained as the overflow is on the bottom (when both valves are open). It would work if the Sun shines but NOT when it stops shinning ????

 

Easy solution this, will ask SWMBO what she thinks of it ????

 

Edited March 12, 2023 by MJCM

[farmerjo]

18 hours ago, MJCM said:

That would be a good idea.

 

Why NOT?

 

Edit: I do understand it now, because when the water stops flowing into the tank, the tank would then be automatically be drained as the overflow is on the bottom (when both valves are open). It would work if the Sun shines but NOT when it stops shinning ????

 

Easy solution this, will ask SWMBO what she thinks of it ????

 

Sorry my wording is a bit muddled there.

But as we are brainstorming it opens up a few different idea's.

 

 

[Muhendis]

The final solution.

Float switch in tank. When tank is full float switch closes and sends a signal to solar panel array.

A motor runs pulling a blind across the panels thus preventing pump from running.

When the water is used another float switch, located near the bottom of the tank, closes and the blind uncovers the panels allowing more water to be pumped into the tank. ????

No animals were harmed in working out this solution.

[Crossy]

14 minutes ago, Muhendis said:

The final solution.

Float switch in tank. When tank is full float switch closes and sends a signal to solar panel array.

A motor runs pulling a blind across the panels thus preventing pump from running.

When the water is used another float switch, located near the bottom of the tank, closes and the blind uncovers the panels allowing more water to be pumped into the tank. ????

No animals were harmed in working out this solution.

 

I would use a weight or spring to bias the blind open, no need for a second motor ???? 

[Muhendis]

9 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

I would use a weight or spring to bias the blind open, no need for a second motor ???? 

Nah.

Spring return but same motor runs backwards.