LTR requirement question

[bobble07]

Hi all , I appreciate I may need to seek advice from a qualified immigration / visa solicitor on this point but thought it may be worth asking on here anyway. 

 

A bit of a hypothetical at this stage but due to a recent change in circumstances I am actively exploring relocating to Thailand and looking at a LTR visa for work-from-thailand-professionals.

 

Referring to the Board of Investment required documents page in the link - Work-From-Thailand-Professional-required-documents.pdf (boi.go.th) I believe I can meet the requirements . 

 

I have more than 5 years experience in the insurance field which I work in. I have earned more than £80k USD for the last 2 years (including bonuses) as I have no masters degree, If I am able to do this it will mean getting a new job in the same field with a multi national insurer who's parent company earns well in excess of the required £150m over the last 3 years, of which I am speaking to companies that would meet this requirement.

 

My question relates to how much I would need to be paid by my new company? it is realistic that to achieve working remotely from Thailand I would need to negotiate and accept a salary sacrifice which would take me below

>£80k USD per year I am currently earning.. I cannot see any requirement that you actually need to earn that much whilst in Thailand, but perhaps it is implied??

 

Also what would the implications be if I wanted to extend for a further 5 years, and that that point I am still not earning £80K USD per annum.. would I be able to extend? 

 

 

 

 

[MicroB]

Ask the employer about permanent establishment, risk of. If the company has a subsidiary already, its possibly not a problem. But then they'll put you on Thai wages, which might not be $80k a year.

 

If the company doesn't have a Thai subsidiary, then there is the risk of Permanent Establishment, which basically means the company might become liable to Thai corporation tax, @ 20% on Thai revenues. If they company cannot show the Thai revenues, then I think they get docked 5%. The terms depends on the tax treaty between Thailand and your country. For the UK, and most others, Permanent Establishment  happens if the employee is involved in any sales role or signs contracts, that might involve a Thai entity.

 

I'd thought it was implied. But for me, a Thai salary would be half my current, and I have a mortgage to pay.

 

My role isn't sales, but my role might involve signing contracts in the future. A move to Thailand will limit my work in the company. But it rests on a Lawyer's reading of "habitual" in the tax treaty. Likely the Company Lawyer will say no way. And in 5 years time, what then? Will Thailand even still have a LTR scheme?

 

Others might suggest a non-Immigrant B visa and work permit if working for a Thai entity.

 

Not sure of the accuracy, but be prepared to be depressed

https://www.chrislross.com/PPPConverter/

[Misty]

6 hours ago, bobble07 said:

I have more than 5 years experience in the insurance field which I work in. I have earned more than £80k USD for the last 2 years (including bonuses) as I have no masters degree, If I am able to do this it will mean getting a new job in the same field with a multi national insurer who's parent company earns well in excess of the required £150m over the last 3 years, of which I am speaking to companies that would meet this requirement.

This could be a long shot, but I wonder if there's a possibility that you could qualify in the future under the LTR category "Highly Skilled Professional" instead. The targeted industries for this category are apparently being expanded to include "financial and market consulting services."  An announcement came out last week was circulated by one of the foreign chambers of commerce:

 

Cabinet Revises LTR Visa’ Targeted Industries

• The Cabinet supported revision to the qualifications, criteria, and benefits for Long-Term Resident Visas’, as proposed by Board of Investment (BOI), with the aim of attracting Highly Skilled Professionals, by revising the criteria of targeted industries. As a result:
  • The following industries are newly added: Transport and Logistics, and Petrochemical and Chemical Industry.
  • The following industries have been revised: Automotive Industry, Electronics Industry, Agricultural, Food, and Biotechnology Industry, Aviation, Airport, and Space Industry, International Business Center (IBC), among other revisions.
• Notably, the BOI will now consider other industries that are served by highly skilled professionals, using one of the following specialized skillsets:
  1. Research and development in targeted industries or targeted technology industries such as biotechnology, nanotechnology, and advanced materials technology. 
  2. Human resource development in sciences and technology, at vocational or higher education levels.
  3. The application of Artificial Intelligence (AI) technologies, and/or using automated robotics system in businesses.
  4. The planning and development of digital system to elevate the products and services offered by businesses.
  5. Providing financial and market consulting services.
  6. The management of environment and energy.
  7. Managing or providing consultation on incubator and acceleration projects, and providing support to the innovation and ecosystems of startup businesses.
  8. Alternative dispute resolution services.      
  9. Providing support and sponsoring the development of business economics, trade and investments, by foreign chambers of commerce and international trade organizations.

Source: March 7 Cabinet Resolutions, Agenda Item no. 24

 

 

[Srikcir]

5 hours ago, Misty said:

This could be a long shot, but I wonder if there's a possibility that you could qualify in the future under the LTR category "Highly Skilled Professional" instead. The targeted industries for this category are apparently being expanded to include "financial and market consulting services."  An announcement came out last week was circulated by one of the foreign chambers of commerce:

 

Cabinet Revises LTR Visa’ Targeted Industries

• The Cabinet supported revision to the qualifications, criteria, and benefits for Long-Term Resident Visas’, as proposed by Board of Investment (BOI), with the aim of attracting Highly Skilled Professionals, by revising the criteria of targeted industries. As a result:
  • The following industries are newly added: Transport and Logistics, and Petrochemical and Chemical Industry.
  • The following industries have been revised: Automotive Industry, Electronics Industry, Agricultural, Food, and Biotechnology Industry, Aviation, Airport, and Space Industry, International Business Center (IBC), among other revisions.
• Notably, the BOI will now consider other industries that are served by highly skilled professionals, using one of the following specialized skillsets:
  1. Research and development in targeted industries or targeted technology industries such as biotechnology, nanotechnology, and advanced materials technology. 
  2. Human resource development in sciences and technology, at vocational or higher education levels.
  3. The application of Artificial Intelligence (AI) technologies, and/or using automated robotics system in businesses.
  4. The planning and development of digital system to elevate the products and services offered by businesses.
  5. Providing financial and market consulting services.
  6. The management of environment and energy.
  7. Managing or providing consultation on incubator and acceleration projects, and providing support to the innovation and ecosystems of startup businesses.
  8. Alternative dispute resolution services.      
  9. Providing support and sponsoring the development of business economics, trade and investments, by foreign chambers of commerce and international trade organizations.

Source: March 7 Cabinet Resolutions, Agenda Item no. 24

 

 

BOI will require "official" documentation of your annual earnings. I used gross income. Call BOI, maybe they can clarify for your employment situation.

[MPoll]

I have the pensioner LTR and it is my impression is that you have to qualify again in 5 years but you wouldn’t pay a fee. I’m also not sure if they are going to check back on each of the first five years. 

[bobble07]

19 hours ago, MicroB said:

Ask the employer about permanent establishment, risk of. If the company has a subsidiary already, its possibly not a problem. But then they'll put you on Thai wages, which might not be $80k a year.

 

If the company doesn't have a Thai subsidiary, then there is the risk of Permanent Establishment, which basically means the company might become liable to Thai corporation tax, @ 20% on Thai revenues. If they company cannot show the Thai revenues, then I think they get docked 5%. The terms depends on the tax treaty between Thailand and your country. For the UK, and most others, Permanent Establishment  happens if the employee is involved in any sales role or signs contracts, that might involve a Thai entity.

 

I'd thought it was implied. But for me, a Thai salary would be half my current, and I have a mortgage to pay.

 

My role isn't sales, but my role might involve signing contracts in the future. A move to Thailand will limit my work in the company. But it rests on a Lawyer's reading of "habitual" in the tax treaty. Likely the Company Lawyer will say no way. And in 5 years time, what then? Will Thailand even still have a LTR scheme?

 

Others might suggest a non-Immigrant B visa and work permit if working for a Thai entity.

 

Not sure of the accuracy, but be prepared to be depressed

https://www.chrislross.com/PPPConverter/

Cheers for the comprehensive reply.. I don’t fully understand the tax position but I think uk Thailand have the double tax treaty? 
 

If I can pull this off it would be doing what I do in the UK but just remotely.. my work involves uk property market, nothing to do with Thailand or Thais.. would just be computer based work

 

Currently I am an insurance underwriter, none of the underwriting companies in my surgical l specific insurance industry have offices in Thailand however I could possibly change to a broking role which is still insurance industry.. and a couple of the brokers I am speaking to do have offices in BKK so I may be able to get out on the books there I suppose and still do uk work remotely

not sure if a change from underwriting to broking would be adverse to the requirement.. I mean it 

Would still be in the insurance industry

[bobble07]

18 hours ago, Misty said:

This could be a long shot, but I wonder if there's a possibility that you could qualify in the future under the LTR category "Highly Skilled Professional" instead. The targeted industries for this category are apparently being expanded to include "financial and market consulting services."  An announcement came out last week was circulated by one of the foreign chambers of commerce:

 

Cabinet Revises LTR Visa’ Targeted Industries

• The Cabinet supported revision to the qualifications, criteria, and benefits for Long-Term Resident Visas’, as proposed by Board of Investment (BOI), with the aim of attracting Highly Skilled Professionals, by revising the criteria of targeted industries. As a result:
  • The following industries are newly added: Transport and Logistics, and Petrochemical and Chemical Industry.
  • The following industries have been revised: Automotive Industry, Electronics Industry, Agricultural, Food, and Biotechnology Industry, Aviation, Airport, and Space Industry, International Business Center (IBC), among other revisions.
• Notably, the BOI will now consider other industries that are served by highly skilled professionals, using one of the following specialized skillsets:
  1. Research and development in targeted industries or targeted technology industries such as biotechnology, nanotechnology, and advanced materials technology. 
  2. Human resource development in sciences and technology, at vocational or higher education levels.
  3. The application of Artificial Intelligence (AI) technologies, and/or using automated robotics system in businesses.
  4. The planning and development of digital system to elevate the products and services offered by businesses.
  5. Providing financial and market consulting services.
  6. The management of environment and energy.
  7. Managing or providing consultation on incubator and acceleration projects, and providing support to the innovation and ecosystems of startup businesses.
  8. Alternative dispute resolution services.      
  9. Providing support and sponsoring the development of business economics, trade and investments, by foreign chambers of commerce and international trade organizations.

Source: March 7 Cabinet Resolutions, Agenda Item no. 24

 

 

Thanks I will certainly check that out

[LogicThai]

18 hours ago, Misty said:

This could be a long shot, but I wonder if there's a possibility that you could qualify in the future under the LTR category "Highly Skilled Professional" instead. The targeted industries for this category are apparently being expanded to include "financial and market consulting services."  An announcement came out last week was circulated by one of the foreign chambers of commerce:

 

Cabinet Revises LTR Visa’ Targeted Industries

• The Cabinet supported revision to the qualifications, criteria, and benefits for Long-Term Resident Visas’, as proposed by Board of Investment (BOI), with the aim of attracting Highly Skilled Professionals, by revising the criteria of targeted industries. As a result:
  • The following industries are newly added: Transport and Logistics, and Petrochemical and Chemical Industry.
  • The following industries have been revised: Automotive Industry, Electronics Industry, Agricultural, Food, and Biotechnology Industry, Aviation, Airport, and Space Industry, International Business Center (IBC), among other revisions.
• Notably, the BOI will now consider other industries that are served by highly skilled professionals, using one of the following specialized skillsets:
  1. Research and development in targeted industries or targeted technology industries such as biotechnology, nanotechnology, and advanced materials technology. 
  2. Human resource development in sciences and technology, at vocational or higher education levels.
  3. The application of Artificial Intelligence (AI) technologies, and/or using automated robotics system in businesses.
  4. The planning and development of digital system to elevate the products and services offered by businesses.
  5. Providing financial and market consulting services.
  6. The management of environment and energy.
  7. Managing or providing consultation on incubator and acceleration projects, and providing support to the innovation and ecosystems of startup businesses.
  8. Alternative dispute resolution services.      
  9. Providing support and sponsoring the development of business economics, trade and investments, by foreign chambers of commerce and international trade organizations.

Source: March 7 Cabinet Resolutions, Agenda Item no. 24

 

 

This is quite encouraging. However, one wonders what exactly is meant by "financial and market consulting services". It could mean many things, and if indeed the objective is to attract as many "Highly Skilled Professionals" as possible, it would be in Thailand's interest to take a broad view of what is covered. Unfortunately, Thai officaldom systematically tends to take the narrowest possible view.

[MicroB]

On 3/17/2023 at 2:36 AM, bobble07 said:

Cheers for the comprehensive reply.. I don’t fully understand the tax position but I think uk Thailand have the double tax treaty? 
 

If I can pull this off it would be doing what I do in the UK but just remotely.. my work involves uk property market, nothing to do with Thailand or Thais.. would just be computer based work

 

Currently I am an insurance underwriter, none of the underwriting companies in my surgical l specific insurance industry have offices in Thailand however I could possibly change to a broking role which is still insurance industry.. and a couple of the brokers I am speaking to do have offices in BKK so I may be able to get out on the books there I suppose and still do uk work remotely

not sure if a change from underwriting to broking would be adverse to the requirement.. I mean it 

Would still be in the insurance industry

UK Tax treaty, with a section on PE:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/507424/uk-thailand-dtc180281_-_in_force.pdf

 

BoI have told me that LTR is supposed to provide tax advantages to individuals not companies.

 

I am a Director of Research; my role might on occasion involve interaction with sales or the consulting team, but I am never involved  in contract signing.

 

But that role might change. Its perfectly plausible that I might be involved in sales to Thai entities (the Thai government is one of our clients), or signing off a custom project. Merely being located in Thailand could affect what I can do or cannot do for the company, and that affects career prospects and certainly job security.

 

The issue is what incentive there is for my employer. This is something I want to do (live and work from Thailand), not a requirement from them. As a Public Company, it would be highly remiss of them to not seek professional lawyerly advice on the impact this would have on the company. At one level, the official policy is that I would be paid a salary based on the local rate, which could be 50% of my current salary, which would kill this for me, even if there were no other issues. I have too many UK financial committments. I probably want to continue with NI payments. My immediate line manager has no issue maintaining my current salary, but I suspect that's not really in how power; I am dependant on the largesse of the employer.

 

What happens after 5 years? You might hope that Thailand extends for another 5 years. Or they might not. Similarly, your employer might take a different view. What happens if your job ends (redundancy for instance). You can't stay in Thailand automatically. Taxation arrangements will change if you take another job (supposing permits. visas worked out).

 

I've had a conversation with an International Tax Consultant who is thinking about exactly the same move. He's concluded the process is too opaque to risk the standing of his employer.