Ukraine war: Germany sends much-awaited Leopard tanks

[webfact]

A Leopard 2 tank. Wikipedia

 

By Adam Durbin
BBC News

The first shipment of Leopard 2 tanks from Germany has been sent to Ukraine, the German defence ministry says.

 

Eighteen cutting-edge main battle tanks were delivered after Ukrainian crews were trained to use them.

 

Defence Minister Boris Pistorius said he was sure the tanks could "make a decisive contribution" on the frontlines of the war.

 

Full story: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65095126

 

-- © Copyright BBC 2023-03-28

[Bkk Brian]

As have the British Challenger Tanks:

 

Pictured: First British Challenger 2 tanks arrive in Ukraine

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/03/27/pictured-british-challenger-2-tanks-arrive-ukraine

[thaibeachlovers]

The tank crews had better hope Russia doesn't use depleted uranium

anti tank shells then. Britain upping the conflict by supplying them to Ukraine may turn out to be a bad idea.

[RayC]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The tank crews had better hope Russia doesn't use depleted uranium

anti tank shells then. Britain upping the conflict by supplying them to Ukraine may turn out to be a bad idea.

But then wouldn't that amount to Russia upping the conflict further?

 

In any event, imo the implication that Ukraine and/or the UK and/or the West bear any responsibility for the current situation is totally incorrect.

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The tank crews had better hope Russia doesn't use depleted uranium

anti tank shells then. Britain upping the conflict by supplying them to Ukraine may turn out to be a bad idea.

Your concern should be for the Russian tank crews as John Kirby US National Security said.

 

Russian Tanks Can Escape Depleted Uranium Rounds by Leaving Ukraine

https://www.newsweek.com/russian-tanks-escape-depleted-uranium-rounds-leaving-ukraine-nsc-1789782

[jvs]

Yes depleted uranium rounds are very very dense!

Almost as dense as some of" the roll over all ways and be a victim"

posters.

Get her done!

[thaibeachlovers]

20 hours ago, RayC said:

But then wouldn't that amount to Russia upping the conflict further?

 

In any event, imo the implication that Ukraine and/or the UK and/or the West bear any responsibility for the current situation is totally incorrect.

That's what has been happening all along. The west supplies weapons and ammunition so Russia sends missiles to blow up power stations, and so it goes. I think it's called mission creep- one side escalates and the other side retaliates.

 

Whichever country is "responsible" is somewhat irrelevant to that. There is a war, and each side will do whatever it can to win till one side decides to negotiate or surrender.

[RayC]

39 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That's what has been happening all along. The west supplies weapons and ammunition so Russia sends missiles to blow up power stations, and so it goes. I think it's called mission creep- one side escalates and the other side retaliates.

 

Whichever country is "responsible" is somewhat irrelevant to that. There is a war, and each side will do whatever it can to win till one side decides to negotiate or surrender.

You seem keen to point the finger at the West for any escalation, ignoring the fact that Russia's illegal activities in Ukraine over the past decade were the catalyst for this situation.

Ensuring that those responsible for this conflict i.e. Putin's Russia are held accountable for their actions is entirely relevant whatever the context.

 

If your analysis is correct then we are caught in a vicious spiral from which there is no escape.

[thaibeachlovers]

10 minutes ago, RayC said:

You seem keen to point the finger at the West for any escalation, ignoring the fact that Russia's illegal activities in Ukraine over the past decade were the catalyst for this situation.

Ensuring that those responsible for this conflict i.e. Putin's Russia are held accountable for their actions is entirely relevant whatever the context.

 

If your analysis is correct then we are caught in a vicious spiral from which there is no escape.

I'm not trying to point the finger at either side with that post. It's a simple fact that escalation is likely in any armed conflict between powerful nations that are in stalemate.

 

If your analysis is correct then we are caught in a vicious spiral from which there is no escape.

 

Yes, I believe that to be the case, and IMO it either leads to NATO being involved and goodbye to all we knew, or one side gives up.

I know which is the better option.

[RayC]

12 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'm not trying to point the finger at either side with that post. It's a simple fact that escalation is likely in any armed conflict between powerful nations that are in stalemate.

 

If your analysis is correct then we are caught in a vicious spiral from which there is no escape.

 

Yes, I believe that to be the case, and IMO it either leads to NATO being involved and goodbye to all we knew, or one side gives up.

I know which is the better option.

Which side should give up?

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, RayC said:

Which side should give up?

I'm not going there, so don't bother trying again.

[RayC]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'm not going there, so don't bother trying again.

You can, of course, choose to reply (or not) to whatever posts you like.

 

However, I think that it was completely reasonable to ask which side you feel should surrender given that you see that you see this as the only viable option (other than mass destruction).

[Wobblybob]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'm not trying to point the finger at either side with that post. It's a simple fact that escalation is likely in any armed conflict between powerful nations that are in stalemate.

There is only one nation that you should be pointing the finger at, and that would be the terrorist genocidal nation of Russia. How can Ukraine "escalate" something it didn't start, this illegal invasion was started by the homicidal madman in the Kremlin and it would be extremely difficult to escalate this brutal attack by the Russians anymore than what the crimes they have already already committed. There is only one side that can put an end to this war, and that would be Russia. If Russia withdraws there will be peace, if the Ukrainians stop fighting they will lose their country and freedoms whilst suffering under serfdom to the Russians, it would seem that Russia has more choices than Ukraine. 

 

If someone broke into your house would you be scared to do everything possible to remove them or would you just say, 'well I don' t want to escalate the situation, they can stay". 

[metisdead]

A troll post has been removed.

[scottiejohn]

37 minutes ago, RayC said:

You can, of course, choose to reply (or not) to whatever posts you like.

 

However, I think that it was completely reasonable to ask which side you feel should surrender given that you see that you see this as the only viable option (other than mass destruction).

I think a certain poster should change their site name to "thaipeacelovers" and confirm their true feelings!

[Tug]

On 3/29/2023 at 12:21 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

The tank crews had better hope Russia doesn't use depleted uranium

anti tank shells then. Britain upping the conflict by supplying them to Ukraine may turn out to be a bad idea.

Let’s hope this is just the start,hopefully just the beginning including modern aircraft all the means to evict the invading criminals from Ukraine ???????? Russia is running out of weapons to surrender to the Ukrainian army as they continue to humiliate the poorly lead orcks the sooner this horrific unessary tragedy is over the better give the Ukrainians the tools they need to end this and Putin slava Ukraine ???????? 

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, RayC said:

You can, of course, choose to reply (or not) to whatever posts you like.

 

However, I think that it was completely reasonable to ask which side you feel should surrender given that you see that you see this as the only viable option (other than mass destruction).

I've given an answer to that before, so I don't feel any need to repeat myself.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

7 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

I think a certain poster should change their site name to "thaipeacelovers" and confirm their true feelings!

LOL. Sadly the human world has never had peace, probably since cavemen discovered that a bone could kill someone else. So while I accept that wars are as much a part of our life as sleeping, I'd prefer it if, in the present day, politicians that vote for conflict had to serve in the front line.

[thaibeachlovers]

7 hours ago, Wobblybob said:

How can Ukraine "escalate" something it didn't start,

I don't recall saying Ukraine was escalating the war, but the west certainly is by giving ever more advanced weapons to Ukraine to use which in turn leads to Russia responding in kind. Putin, IMO, had a point when he commented that the west will fight to the last Ukrainian.

 

7 hours ago, Wobblybob said:

If someone broke into your house would you be scared to do everything possible to remove them or would you just say, 'well I don' t want to escalate the situation, they can stay". 

If they were bigger and stronger and better armed than I, certainly I'd be scared to do anything to stop them. Wouldn't you be?

[Tug]

44 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I don't recall saying Ukraine was escalating the war, but the west certainly is by giving ever more advanced weapons to Ukraine to use which in turn leads to Russia responding in kind. Putin, IMO, had a point when he commented that the west will fight to the last Ukrainian.

 

If they were bigger and stronger and better armed than I, certainly I'd be scared to do anything to stop them. Wouldn't you be?

The Ukrainians are not cowards they won’t tolerate their women beeing raped and kids being killed by invading looting criminals we in the west see this and admire their courage to defend their sovereignty and help in anyway we can to help them succeed you on the other hand seem to always try to cast doubt and give comfort to the enemy why?

[Wobblybob]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I don't recall saying Ukraine was escalating the war, but the west certainly is by giving ever more advanced weapons to Ukraine to use which in turn leads to Russia responding in kind. Putin, IMO, had a point when he commented that the west will fight to the last Ukrainian.

Got it now, it's the west's fault that Russia invaded Ukraine, what a genius, there was me thinking it was Russia's fault that the Russians are killing civilians whilst demolishing hospitals and schools and all the other civilian infrastructure, they have displaced children and adults.

The west are supplying arms to Ukraine to rid the Russians from Ukraine, and I emphasize that these weapons are to stop Russia wiping Ukraine from the face of the earth complete with its people, why you find this concept difficult to understand is just beggars belief. Ukraine is not attacking Russia, Russia is attacking Ukraine!

 

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

If they were bigger and stronger and better armed than I, certainly I'd be scared to do anything to stop them. Wouldn't you be?

Lets put it this way if these people were abusing my wife and children I would do everything in my power to get these thugs out, just as Ukraine is doing and I find your reply very disturbing!

[scottiejohn]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'd prefer it if, in the present day, politicians that vote for conflict

Since when has Putin ever voted, or been voted, for anything.

I suggest you face reality and stop spouting your ideology!

[RayC]

10 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I don't recall saying Ukraine was escalating the war, but the west certainly is by giving ever more advanced weapons to Ukraine to use which in turn leads to Russia responding in kind. Putin, IMO, had a point when he commented that the west will fight to the last Ukrainian.

 

You conveniently forget that the West's response to the annexation of Crimea - i.e. some economic sanctions and a polite request to Putin that he withdraw Russian forces - had no effect whatsoever. Even after Russia launched its' invasion in February 2022, the West's first response was to try to broker peace (remember Macron's trip to Moscow?). This was all to no avail.

 

Ukraine asked for military assistance to combat a tyrant who invaded their country; the West did not force weapons upon them. Yet you insist that it is the West that is escalating the conflict. What would you have had the West do? Leave Ukraine to Putin's mercy?

 

What would you have the West do now? Withdraw all military aid? What about Ukraine itself? Sue for peace on Russia's terms?