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Ukraine war: Germany sends much-awaited Leopard tanks


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Posted (edited)

The tank crews had better hope Russia doesn't use depleted uranium

anti tank shells then. Britain upping the conflict by supplying them to Ukraine may turn out to be a bad idea.

Edited by thaibeachlovers
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Posted
20 hours ago, RayC said:

But then wouldn't that amount to Russia upping the conflict further?

 

In any event, imo the implication that Ukraine and/or the UK and/or the West bear any responsibility for the current situation is totally incorrect.

That's what has been happening all along. The west supplies weapons and ammunition so Russia sends missiles to blow up power stations, and so it goes. I think it's called mission creep- one side escalates and the other side retaliates.

 

Whichever country is "responsible" is somewhat irrelevant to that. There is a war, and each side will do whatever it can to win till one side decides to negotiate or surrender.

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Posted
39 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That's what has been happening all along. The west supplies weapons and ammunition so Russia sends missiles to blow up power stations, and so it goes. I think it's called mission creep- one side escalates and the other side retaliates.

 

Whichever country is "responsible" is somewhat irrelevant to that. There is a war, and each side will do whatever it can to win till one side decides to negotiate or surrender.

You seem keen to point the finger at the West for any escalation, ignoring the fact that Russia's illegal activities in Ukraine over the past decade were the catalyst for this situation.


Ensuring that those responsible for this conflict i.e. Putin's Russia are held accountable for their actions is entirely relevant whatever the context.

 

If your analysis is correct then we are caught in a vicious spiral from which there is no escape.

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Posted
10 minutes ago, RayC said:

You seem keen to point the finger at the West for any escalation, ignoring the fact that Russia's illegal activities in Ukraine over the past decade were the catalyst for this situation.


Ensuring that those responsible for this conflict i.e. Putin's Russia are held accountable for their actions is entirely relevant whatever the context.

 

If your analysis is correct then we are caught in a vicious spiral from which there is no escape.

I'm not trying to point the finger at either side with that post. It's a simple fact that escalation is likely in any armed conflict between powerful nations that are in stalemate.

 

If your analysis is correct then we are caught in a vicious spiral from which there is no escape.

 

Yes, I believe that to be the case, and IMO it either leads to NATO being involved and goodbye to all we knew, or one side gives up.

I know which is the better option.

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Posted
12 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'm not trying to point the finger at either side with that post. It's a simple fact that escalation is likely in any armed conflict between powerful nations that are in stalemate.

 

If your analysis is correct then we are caught in a vicious spiral from which there is no escape.

 

Yes, I believe that to be the case, and IMO it either leads to NATO being involved and goodbye to all we knew, or one side gives up.

I know which is the better option.

Which side should give up?

Posted
37 minutes ago, RayC said:

You can, of course, choose to reply (or not) to whatever posts you like.

 

However, I think that it was completely reasonable to ask which side you feel should surrender given that you see that you see this as the only viable option (other than mass destruction).

I think a certain poster should change their site name to "thaipeacelovers" and confirm their true feelings!

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Posted
8 hours ago, RayC said:

You can, of course, choose to reply (or not) to whatever posts you like.

 

However, I think that it was completely reasonable to ask which side you feel should surrender given that you see that you see this as the only viable option (other than mass destruction).

I've given an answer to that before, so I don't feel any need to repeat myself.

 

Posted
7 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

I think a certain poster should change their site name to "thaipeacelovers" and confirm their true feelings!

LOL. Sadly the human world has never had peace, probably since cavemen discovered that a bone could kill someone else. So while I accept that wars are as much a part of our life as sleeping, I'd prefer it if, in the present day, politicians that vote for conflict had to serve in the front line.

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Posted
7 hours ago, Wobblybob said:

How can Ukraine "escalate" something it didn't start,

I don't recall saying Ukraine was escalating the war, but the west certainly is by giving ever more advanced weapons to Ukraine to use which in turn leads to Russia responding in kind. Putin, IMO, had a point when he commented that the west will fight to the last Ukrainian.

 

7 hours ago, Wobblybob said:

If someone broke into your house would you be scared to do everything possible to remove them or would you just say, 'well I don' t want to escalate the situation, they can stay". 

If they were bigger and stronger and better armed than I, certainly I'd be scared to do anything to stop them. Wouldn't you be?

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Posted
4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'd prefer it if, in the present day, politicians that vote for conflict

Since when has Putin ever voted, or been voted, for anything.

I suggest you face reality and stop spouting your ideology!

Posted
10 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I don't recall saying Ukraine was escalating the war, but the west certainly is by giving ever more advanced weapons to Ukraine to use which in turn leads to Russia responding in kind. Putin, IMO, had a point when he commented that the west will fight to the last Ukrainian.

 

You conveniently forget that the West's response to the annexation of Crimea - i.e. some economic sanctions and a polite request to Putin that he withdraw Russian forces - had no effect whatsoever. Even after Russia launched its' invasion in February 2022, the West's first response was to try to broker peace (remember Macron's trip to Moscow?). This was all to no avail.

 

Ukraine asked for military assistance to combat a tyrant who invaded their country; the West did not force weapons upon them. Yet you insist that it is the West that is escalating the conflict. What would you have had the West do? Leave Ukraine to Putin's mercy?

 

What would you have the West do now? Withdraw all military aid? What about Ukraine itself? Sue for peace on Russia's terms?

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