Balancing between US, China a challenge for Thailand’s next administration

[sscc]

6 hours ago, jacko45k said:

China hasn't really got going yet..... not far out of peasantry.

" China not far out of peasantry " ???   Really ?     

Too bad  reality does not match your Script. 

You can keep Dreaming.   Dreaming doesn't hurt.  

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, sscc said:

 A made-in-China warship had just been delivered to Thailand a week or so ago. 

Presume you have not  bother reading Non-Western media and/or Non-English language media,  so you are not aware.  

It's a submarine tender. My focus was on the main game.

[sscc]

9 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Why not India, tipped to become more populous than China this year and ultimately a stronger economy due to China's aging population as a result of it's one child policy.

 

In 1979,   India GDP and China GDP were roughly on par. 

In 2020,   India GDP and China GDP were in 100 : 450 ratio. 

 

Currently India is doing very well,  and India GDP growth rate runs tops of Asia and about top of the world too ( Forget any western nations to compare India growth ). 

Come back in 50 years -- provided you and I live long enough --- to see if India will surpass China then.   

 

[sscc]

16 hours ago, RandiRona said:

CCP(not Chinese) when it comes to attacking other countries is no saint. When it comes to military escalations, it comes down to intent, capability and execution. Chinese always intend to expand their territory but lacked capability and execution. Now they have developed both so that is the reason all south China sea countries are intimidated by rise of China. China attacked Vietname, Soviet Union, India, Taiwan, Mongolia in last 70 years and wont hesitate to do it again if not of US and allies standing against it. Best is to stay Neutral and dont facilitated CCP. Below is Chinese adventurism in their neighbourhood.

 

 

According to the list of Chinese wars and battles ¹, some of the wars that China fought from 1950 till 2023 are:

- The Korean War (1950–1953), in which China supported North Korea against South Korea and its UN allies, led by the United States. The war ended with a ceasefire and a demilitarized zone along the 38th parallel. ¹
- The First and Second Taiwan Strait Crises (1954–1955 and 1958), in which China attempted to assert its sovereignty over Taiwan, which was controlled by the Republic of China government that fled the mainland after losing the Chinese Civil War. The crises were resolved with US intervention and a ceasefire. ¹
- The Sino-Indian War (1962), in which China clashed with India over a disputed Himalayan border. China captured some Indian territory before declaring a ceasefire and withdrawing its troops. ¹
- The Vietnam War (1965–1969), in which China provided military and economic aid to North Vietnam and its communist allies against South Vietnam and its US-led allies. China also sent some troops to help defend North Vietnam from US bombing raids. China withdrew its forces after the US began to scale down its involvement in the war. ¹
- The Sino-Soviet Border Conflict (1969), in which China and the Soviet Union engaged in several skirmishes along their shared border over territorial and ideological disputes. The conflict was de-escalated with diplomatic talks and a border agreement in 1991. ¹
- The Sino-Vietnamese War (1979), in which China launched a punitive invasion of Vietnam to punish it for overthrowing the Khmer Rouge regime in Cambodia, which was allied with China. The war lasted for about a month and both sides claimed victory. China withdrew its troops but continued to support the anti-Vietnamese resistance in Cambodia until 1989. ¹
- The Sino-Vietnamese Conflicts (1979–1991), in which China and Vietnam had several border clashes and naval incidents over their disputed territories and maritime rights. China also occupied some reefs in the Spratly Islands after a skirmish with Vietnam in 1988. The conflicts ended with the normalization of relations between the two countries after the 1990 Chengdu summit. ¹

Source: Conversation with Bing, 4/23/2023
(1) List of Chinese wars and battles - Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_wars_and_battles.
(2) List of wars involving the People's Republic of China - Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_People's_Republic_of_China.
(3) Timeline: U.S.-China Relations - Council on Foreign Relations. https://www.cfr.org/timeline/us-china-relations.

 

Your statement   " According to the list of Chinese wars and battles ¹, some of the wars that China fought from 1950 till 2023 are:    "    

Your list included Conflicts too,   Is conflict equal to war ?   

 

Of course NOT.   So what are these paragraphs that you have written ?    False narrative with ill-intended, hidden agenda  ? 

 

 

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, sscc said:

In 1979,   India GDP and China GDP were roughly on par. 

In 2020,   India GDP and China GDP were in 100 : 450 ratio. 

 

Currently India is doing very well,  and India GDP growth rate runs tops of Asia and about top of the world too ( Forget any western nations to compare India growth ). 

Come back in 50 years -- provided you and I live long enough --- to see if India will surpass China then.   

 

You assume growth at the current rate. India's median age is 10 years younger then China and is growing while Chine is declining. China will be burdened by an elderly population before long.

 

 

 

 

 

[RandiRona]

1 hour ago, sscc said:

 

Your statement   " According to the list of Chinese wars and battles ¹, some of the wars that China fought from 1950 till 2023 are:    "    

Your list included Conflicts too,   Is conflict equal to war ?   

 

Of course NOT.   So what are these paragraphs that you have written ?    False narrative with ill-intended, hidden agenda  ? 

 

 

Hey Einstein!!! , I didn't write those paragraphs, there are links provided which talks about all the 'WARS' China started, go and read if you can read anything other than Mandarin!

Or alternatively go to QQ or Weibo for your instant gratification of CCP agenda .... TROLL!!

Edited April 24, 2023 by RandiRona

[RandiRona]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

You assume growth at the current rate. India's median age is 10 years younger then China and is growing while Chine is declining. China will be burdened by an elderly population before long.

 

 

 

 

 

This guys is CCP troll , logic and reasoning doesn't compute with him. Save your efforts for someone who is worthy of your research and analysis.

[Banana7]

1 hour ago, RandiRona said:

This guys is CCP troll , logic and reasoning doesn't compute with him. Save your efforts for someone who is worthy of your research and analysis.

China employs people to actually, discredit all criticism of China and glorify all Chinese political statements, strategy, values, etc. on the internet. 

 

[RandiRona]

18 minutes ago, Banana7 said:

China employs people to actually, discredit all criticism of China and glorify all Chinese political statements, strategy, values, etc. on the internet. 

 

I am sure some of them are automated bots , kind of ChatGPT , which reads the text and reply something in favor of CCP and against everyone else. Some of them available for commercial use.

 

Automated bots for discussion room replies are programs that can simulate human conversations using natural language processing. They can be used to answer frequently asked questions, provide information, or help users navigate a website or app. Some examples of automated bots for discussion room replies are **HubSpot Chatbot Builder**¹, **Intercom**¹, **Watson Assistant**¹, and **Bots in Microsoft Teams**².

Source: Conversation with Bing, 4/24/2023
(1) 18 of the Best AI Chatbots for 2023 - HubSpot. https://blog.hubspot.com/marketing/best-ai-chatbot.
(2) Bots in Microsoft Teams - Teams | Microsoft Learn. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoftteams/platform/bots/what-are-bots.
(3) 12 Best AI Chatbots for Business & Personal Use [2023] - Tidio. https://www.tidio.com/blog/ai-chatbot/.

[Banana7]

The real issue in siding with China is that China will want Thailand to adopt Chinese values. Thailand is halfway already  adopting Chinese philosophy, values and strategy. Thailand is already slowly taking away freedom of speech, criticism of government and other entities.

 

In China, the CCP members control the majority of wealth in China, and if you ask the party members to disclose their assets, you end up in jail for asking, as a lawyer did recently.  Here in Thailand, the politicians become wealthy as soon as they are elected, and wealth doesn't come from their salary. We see many Thai government employees accumulate massive amounts of wealth, far beyond what their salary supports.

 

Thailand is a dying democracy. Young Thai people seem to recognize the slow erosion of democracy and hopefully will change the current course of the country.

 

Here in Thailand, as in China, there are Ministers in Ministries that have zero experience in the subject field, as in the Health Ministry here in Thailand. The ministers get the appointment not because of academic, professional or experience qualifications, they get it other reasons resulting in disastrous outcomes.

 

Does Thailand want to become more like China or more like USA?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 24, 2023 by Banana7

[sidneybear]

9 hours ago, chalawaan said:

They're both world class bullshippers, if that's what you mean! It's hard to dispute that. 

Diplomacy does involve some of that, yes. But it's a lot better than starting wars with all and sundry, like the US is so fond of doing. 

[jacko45k]

7 hours ago, sscc said:

" China not far out of peasantry " ???   Really ?     

Too bad  reality does not match your Script. 

You can keep Dreaming.   Dreaming doesn't hurt.  

Yes, I used to go there some years ago, work related, it was somewhat basic outside the City. Otherwise I have no idea what you are on about. 

[sidneybear]

17 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Should they buy Chinese submarines or US fighter jets? Or neither?

Seems Thailand is looking to join BRICS too. Sign of the times.

 

https://www.silkroadbriefing.com/news/2022/11/09/the-new-candidate-countries-for-brics-expansion/

[gearbox]

On 4/22/2023 at 12:30 AM, Pedrogaz said:

Easy, dump the US and throw your lot in with China.

Not wise, play them both and get the best deal of the day. Never overcommit and make it clear all the time that no side is taken. Same strategy when you have 2 supermarkets in town. Do the supermarkets care about your wellbeing...nope...then put your own interest first, play them against each other.

[sidneybear]

7 hours ago, RandiRona said:

This guys is CCP troll , logic and reasoning doesn't compute with him. Save your efforts for someone who is worthy of your research and analysis.

Using ad hominem slurs like 'CCP troll' is intellectually lazy. You might sound more compelling if you bothered to participate in the debate.

[sidneybear]

6 hours ago, Banana7 said:

Does Thailand want to become more like China or more like USA?

I'd say China. The days of admiration for the West are gone. Thailand sees China as a rising star, and the US as a fading one. Add to this the fact that Thais, Asians, and most of the non-Anglophone world, are socially conservative: Many consider modern Western culture to be repulsive, and have no wish to emulate it. 

Edited April 25, 2023 by sidneybear

[RandiRona]

Thanks for your feedback, did you bother to read my posts above?? They will simulate  your grey cells if you give it a chance, go ahead , read it and let’s debate if you are serious about it.

[ozimoron]

2 hours ago, RandiRona said:

Thanks for your feedback, did you bother to read my posts above?? They will simulate  your grey cells if you give it a chance, go ahead , read it and let’s debate if you are serious about it.

I think GPT bots could destroy forums like this. It's certainly something to consider. I recall that prior to Trump's election that The Guardian used to allow US political comment. After that they didn't. I suspect it was about bots because there were many obvious bots in the comments.

[sidneybear]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

I think GPT bots could destroy forums like this. It's certainly something to consider. I recall that prior to Trump's election that The Guardian used to allow US political comment. After that they didn't. I suspect it was about bots because there were many obvious bots in the comments.

Oh dear, is that the best you can do? Anyone who disagrees with you is surely a bot, because your viewpoint must be the only valid one. Should debating forums be closed down?

[RandiRona]

6 hours ago, ozimoron said:

I think GPT bots could destroy forums like this. It's certainly something to consider. I recall that prior to Trump's election that The Guardian used to allow US political comment. After that they didn't. I suspect it was about bots because there were many obvious bots in the comments.

I agree, most US websites dont allow comments no more as automated disinformation campaigns was run by foreign and opposite forces. Even captchas has developed itself to be that complex as progressive AI is able to pass Turing's test with flying colors.

[RandiRona]

4 hours ago, sidneybear said:

Oh dear, is that the best you can do? Anyone who disagrees with you is surely a bot, because your viewpoint must be the only valid one. Should debating forums be closed down?

No they shouldn't but only humans should be allowed to debate because as a bot you always follow a set agenda. I havent seen you write a solid defence of CCP other than trolling the ones who are providing against it?? TROLL!!!

[ozimoron]

4 hours ago, sidneybear said:

Oh dear, is that the best you can do? Anyone who disagrees with you is surely a bot, because your viewpoint must be the only valid one. Should debating forums be closed down?

Your comment doesn't have any relevance to my post at all. I never even suggested what you claim. Cut the trolling.