Thailand / UK Dual Tax Agreement Queries

[2009]

13 minutes ago, billd766 said:

They tax the whole of your UK derived income and your pensions ONLY get taxed IF they exceed the £12,570 personal allowance.

There's no personal allowance on UK income if you are a non-resident?

 

That's barbaric.

[cleopatra2]

3 hours ago, Carrbhoy said:

Thanks for your input. I don't currently have a Thai Tax ID (TIN) - I did a quick google and see that I do meet the criteria. So, should I obtain one?

 

I see the later reply re claiming a credit rather than a refund. Same outcome as such - I'm now clear on how to get any monies due back.

 

I think I want to go down the route of getting things in place which comply with both Thai / UK tax requirements from the outset.

 

lets clear this up

Regarding your pension income , there is no means of reducing your tax liability for the HMRC ( you will pay the full amount due in regards  of UK tax authorities )

As regards Article 23 of The DTT , if Thai tax authorities decided to tax you ( they may decide your pension income is not taxable) , then any tax paid to the UK tax authorities can be used as a credit against the Thai tax bill. Thus the Thai tax due can be reduced. There is no refund from the HMRC.

 

With regards your other income I have not looked into the DTT for these so cannot comment.

Edited May 21, 2023 by cleopatra2

[quake]

15 hours ago, 2009 said:

There's no personal allowance on UK income if you are a non-resident?

 

That's barbaric.

All uk citizens get £12,570 personal allowance.

on uk income, even if they are non resident.

 

[quake]

Op, not think to mut.

Open offshore uk bank account jersey/ Isle man.

using your new Thai address. ( as you are non uk resident now )

pay all money into that account, transfer money once a year to Thailand.

( only transfer money earned the previous tax year) no Thai tax to pay.

You get to keep any interest tax free from offshore account. ( as non uk resident, offshore uk account, non Eu resident)

Don't need any Thai tax number bs. no dual tax agreement bs.

stay out there systems as long as possible.

you get 12,750 tax free allowance in uk on money earned there, ( 2023 tax year )

pay Uk tax on what's left.

Well that's what I do. for about the last 10 years.

 

Ps You may need a few bob to open the account and you will be subject to there max payout if bank fails, think its 150,000.

Your funds will also be subject to there probate laws if you die. ( you need to look at that ) under 10,000

maybe ok for uk mainland will. over that, expensive !!

Not telling you to do this, but could be a goer for you.

 

Edited May 22, 2023 by quake

[Mike Teavee]

Duplicate…

Edited May 22, 2023 by Mike Teavee

[Mike Teavee]

On 5/18/2023 at 1:57 PM, skorts said:

I set up an on-line mailing account which gives me a U.K. residential street (not PO Box) address:

 

www.ukpostbox.com

Hi, do you use this service for your UK Bank correspondence & if so, what proof of address did you use?

 

Thanks

 

 

MTV

[Mike Teavee]

18 hours ago, Carrbhoy said:

So, this is where the replies so far start to get confusing. Up to reading this, I thought that UK Derived Income eg Corporate Pension / UK Buy To Let Income / UK Bank Interest / UK Equity Dividends are all taxable in the UK as a Non-Resident. No need to involve the Thai tax authorities.

 

This is now saying, it is taxable by the Thai Tax authorities under the DTT but I can claim a tax credit (not refund) from HMRC under Article 23.

 

Which is correct?

 

 

 

All Income earned in the UK is subject to UK Tax after allowing for any allowances (e.g £12,500 Personal Tax Allowance, £1,000 for dividends, 100% of income from ISAs etc… are not taxed).

Thailand is not interested in any of this unless you bring it into the country within the same Thai Tax year (1st Jan to 31st December) that it was earned so if you were to have any income  (not State pension) paid directly into your Thai Bank account then this is liable to tax but any tax you pay can be re-claimed as a tax credit against future UK tax bills. 
 

At the other end of the spectrum if you just made 1 annual transfer to Thailand on 1st January you wouldn’t be liable for any tax in Thailand even if it was earned on 31st December. 
 

 

Edited May 22, 2023 by Mike Teavee

[skorts]

6 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Hi, do you use this service for your UK Bank correspondence & if so, what proof of address did you use?

 

Thanks

 

 

MTV

My U.K. banks allowed me to update my correspondence address on-line. Either by entering the postcode and selecting from a drop down list or entering the address manually. I updated my address across a dozen or so companies and apart from one all were done on-line. There is no proof of address required. Every organisation sent a letter confirming change of address to the new and old address I guess for security reasons to ensure the change of address is genuine. 

[khunPer]

18 hours ago, Carrbhoy said:

Thanks for your input - I've replied to this under the other message below.

I'm sorry that I was too fast to reply, as your pension is not from the State.

 

You are income taxable in both countries, but can deduct the paid British tax in your Thai income tax, so you are not double taxed. You might be due some income tax to Thailand, depending of your gross income.

[billd766]

2 hours ago, quake said:

All uk citizens get £12,570 personal allowance.

on uk income, even if they are non resident.

 

He is lazy and trolling. That is why he is on my ignore list.

[cleopatra2]

6 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

All Income earned in the UK is subject to UK Tax after allowing for any allowances (e.g £12,500 Personal Tax Allowance, £1,000 for dividends, 100% of income from ISAs etc… are not taxed).

Thailand is not interested in any of this unless you bring it into the country within the same Thai Tax year (1st Jan to 31st December) that it was earned so if you were to have any income  (not State pension) paid directly into your Thai Bank account then this is liable to tax but any tax you pay can be re-claimed as a tax credit against future UK tax bills. 
 

At the other end of the spectrum if you just made 1 annual transfer to Thailand on 1st January you wouldn’t be liable for any tax in Thailand even if it was earned on 31st December. 
 

 

With regards the pension income, the material point is the source of income. Having the monies paid into a Thai bank does not change this.

There is no provisions for Thai tax paid on UK sourced income to offset any UK tax. The only relief available is for UK tax ( UK sourced income) to reduce any Thai tax due on the same source of income 

Edited May 22, 2023 by cleopatra2

[Mike Teavee]

4 hours ago, cleopatra2 said:

With regards the pension income, the material point is the source of income. Having the monies paid into a Thai bank does not change this.

There is no provisions for Thai tax paid on UK sourced income to offset any UK tax. The only relief available is for UK tax ( UK sourced income) to reduce any Thai tax due on the same source of income 

The material points are when the Income was earned & when it was sent to Thailand so if you have any (none state pension) income paid directly into a Thai Bank Account then it’s obviously been earned in that Tax Year & so liable to Thai Tax… Have it paid into a UK account & bring it over the next tax year & no Tax to pay. 
 

I understood the Tax Relief to be the other way around I.E. Tax payed in Thailand on income already taxed in the UK could be offset against future UK Tax, that’s how it worked when I had to pay Income Tax in Singapore & UK on my salary but to be honest I got a full refund of all PAYE paid as I was considered resident in Singapore for the whole year so different circumstances/DTA could mean I’m mistaken. 
 

 

Edited May 22, 2023 by Mike Teavee

[cleopatra2]

38 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

The material points are when the Income was earned & when it was sent to Thailand so if you have any (none state pension) income paid directly into a Thai Bank Account then it’s obviously been earned in that Tax Year & so liable to Thai Tax… Have it paid into a UK account & bring it over the next tax year & no Tax to pay. 
 

I understood the Tax Relief to be the other way around I.E. Tax payed in Thailand on income already taxed in the UK could be offset against future UK Tax, that’s how it worked when I had to pay Income Tax in Singapore & UK on my salary but to be honest I got a full refund of all PAYE paid as I was considered resident in Singapore for the whole year so different circumstances/DTA could mean I’m mistaken. 
 

 

Keeping the topic to the OP.

The pension income is UK sourced . The Thai UK DTT provides for no relief on UK tax due for this income.

However article 23 provides  for the UK tax paid to be used as credit  against any Thai tax on the same income. 

There is no provisions in Article 23 to allow any Thai tax paid on UK sourced income to be used as credit against UK tax.

 

There is provisions for Thai tax paid on Thai sourced income to be used for credit against any UK tax due.

Edited May 22, 2023 by cleopatra2

[Thailand]

20 hours ago, quake said:

All uk citizens get £12,570 personal allowance.

on uk income, even if they are non resident.

 

As mentioned he is trolling.