CNS Chief's 'Plan' To Contest The Election

[Jai Dee]

Permanent Secretary for Defence is confident Gen.Sonthi’s appointment as DPM has no problem

The Permanent Secretary for Defence and Secretary-General of the Council for National Security (CNS), Gen. Winai Phatthiyakul (วินัย ภัททิยกุล), says if CNS Chairman Sonthi Boonyaratglin is appointed as deputy prime minister on national security, overlapping of administrative powers would not take place between him and Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont.

Gen. Winai says the Prime Minister and the CNS Chairman are working together closely and administrative problems would not occur if Gen. Sonthi joins the Cabinet. Besides, Gen. Surayud usually assigned Gen. Sonthi to oversee projects concerning national security although the CNS Chairman has the authority to dismiss the Prime Minister.

Gen. Winai affirms no movements against Gen.Sonthi’s appointment as deputy PM have been reported as the matter remains unclear.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 28 September 2007

[younghusband]

If Sonthi, does plan to contest the election then his public statements on matters of international concern should, in my view be very much 'on-topic'. It should be noted that these comments were made on Wednesday night, though one would anticipate that his intelligence data would be better then most.

... Gen. Sonthi Boonyaratglin, speaking on television Wednesday night, defended the Burmese government, saying no military force was used and that only police were deployed, although the Internet was awash with pictures of uniformed soldiers confronting the marchers.

"The actual tactics may vary from country to country," Sonthi said. "I think there is no violence in the current situation. Everything is under control.

"On the reports that Buddhist monks were assaulted [during the dispersal of demonstrations], that cannot be concluded just from looking at the photos. I was informed that Burma uses dialogue to solve the problem, and senior Buddhist monks have helped negotiate to end the problem."

LINK Asia Sentinel

Regards

I do hope that the truthfulness of his comments on the demonstrations here in Bangkok, especially the one that went out of hand at the residence of Prem, are seen in the same light now.

Asiasentinel has the most accurate account of those demonstrations at Prem's residence as well, and they are very much in contrast to official propaganda as delivered by Sonthi, Surayudh &Co.

The Asia sentinel report is also very divergent from what most of the internatinal media reported happened - riot and police restraint. The riot around Prems residence is now in the past the history of it is written and will not change. If that history is different to reality that would not be unique as virtually no history is totally accurate. However, those interantional media reports will stand as the record and not a single report by Mr. Ten Kate in a small asian news site.

Personally I prefer to listen to the words of the residents who lived there rather than any of the media or any of the bais interest groups. Their words were not all that complimentary about the pro-Thaksin rioters, but many forget the innocents that become victims.

The small pro-Thaksin anti-Prem riot/rally is also certainly not comparable to the full on movement occuring in Burma, which seems to have mass support. If anything the event outside an 80 year olds house was a massive own goal by the pro-Thaksin people as it seems to have been viewed as going too far by many people. Certainly the UDD now seem an insignificant remnant as they are abandoned by the full on Thaksinistas who have moved into election mode and the UDD are now noticeably not even attracting much comment from the government.

Hi Hammered,

I don't have any information on the Prem residence incident other than what I read in the press, where the evidence is mixed.However I would like to put a couple of points out for consideration.

1.Firstly history is never written in stone and it fact it always changes as time goes by.This was pounded into the heads of undergraduates at Cambridge and I'm sure elsewhere.If you ever get the chance to talk to a trained historian (Chris Baker for example) I would be astonished if he did not tell you the same thing.Therefore there is a current well informed view (let's call it the own goal position) of what happened at Prem's house but I guarantee you that in twenty years time historians will not look at it the same way.

2.Daniel Ten Kate in his low key way has been one of the most influential of commentators in recent political developments.Obviously he's not right all the time but you appear very dismissive of somebody who is very high quality.And heaven knows we need well informed and thoughtful commentators like him.

3.For general consideration does anyone have any views why nobody on this forum seems interested in Sondhi's appalling comments on Burma which even the normally craven English language press have picked up on? Is it I wonder the view of the juntaphiles that anything can be excused the senior officers who overthrew Thaksin? The silence is deafening.

[blaze]

3.For general consideration does anyone have any views why nobody on this forum seems interested in Sondhi's appalling comments on Burma which even the normally craven English language press have picked up on? Is it I wonder the view of the juntaphiles that anything can be excused the senior officers who overthrew Thaksin? The silence is deafening.

His remarks (in effect, that if in fact violence was being visited upon the demonstrators, well- they probably had it coming-) sound remarkably similar to remarks made by the Thaksin administration re the drug war deaths. Where's the outrage now boys?

[nothingleftbutfaith]

3.For general consideration does anyone have any views why nobody on this forum seems interested in Sondhi's appalling comments on Burma which even the normally craven English language press have picked up on? Is it I wonder the view of the juntaphiles that anything can be excused the senior officers who overthrew Thaksin? The silence is deafening.

His remarks (in effect, that if in fact violence was being visited upon the demonstrators, well- they probably had it coming-) sound remarkably similar to remarks made by the Thaksin administration re the drug war deaths. Where's the outrage now boys?

Why do you need to hide behind that irrelevant comparison?

Just tell us whether you agree with his appaling remarks or not .

[Plus]

I don't recall seeing any violence on Wednesday either, at least not in the morning.

You make it look like Sonthi didn't believe widespread news reports showing blood on the streets.

Are you sure of the timeframe? When was the interview recorded? Before, during, or after the first crackdown.

Edit: I looked at the previous page in this thread. I myself wasn't aware of any violent crackdown on Wednesday as late as 11 PM.

Edited September 28, 2007 by Plus

[blaze]

3.For general consideration does anyone have any views why nobody on this forum seems interested in Sondhi's appalling comments on Burma which even the normally craven English language press have picked up on? Is it I wonder the view of the juntaphiles that anything can be excused the senior officers who overthrew Thaksin? The silence is deafening.

His remarks (in effect, that if in fact violence was being visited upon the demonstrators, well- they probably had it coming-) sound remarkably similar to remarks made by the Thaksin administration re the drug war deaths. Where's the outrage now boys?

Why do you need to hide behind that irrelevant comparison?

Just tell us whether you agree with his appaling remarks or not .

Sonthi's response was the knee-jerk response of an apologist for a hideous regime. The comparison served to point out the hypocricy of those who rail against the apologists for the drug wars yet delicately ignore or even try to excuse the good General's reaction to the bloodshed in Burma. Clear enough for you?

Yes, the difference is that Sonthi is not responsible for the deaths in Burma (where as, argueably, Thaksin was to some considerable extent responsible for the deaths in the drug wars). But the willingness to blame the demonstrators rather than a notoriously brutal army has to show that the Thai junta has no more moral credibility than the moral credibility it accords the previous government.

And that Sonthi may now be about to embark on a political career should be worrying.

Edited September 28, 2007 by blaze

[Plus]

The article was written on Thursday, interview was on Wednesday.

My theory was that it was due to pressure from Sonthi that the junta hasn't crack down on protesters from the start. Interestingly, that's what Sonthi mentioned in the interview as well (but, of course, without taking any credit).

However stupid this theory is, it is a blatant misrepresentation of the facts to say that Sonthi supported Burmese junta's violence.

[brahmburgers]

Are we to believe Sonthi wants to stay at the helm "......because he wants to ensure that the Sept 19 coup was not a waste of time." (?)

Most of what Sonthi and his ilk have been doing for the past year is wasting time - other than chasing Thaksin and his money.

The more Sonthi shows his colors, the more he looks and sounds like Thaksin. They both lie, they both make gaffes and then clumsily try to explain them away the next day. Neither man can tell the truth. Perhaps Thais learn at a tender age that telling the truth is for wimps. At best, they speak in twisted parables which insinuate what they're thinking. Plus it leaves them 'an out' if they get caught in a lie, - so then they can say, "show me exactly what I said which was untrue." ....and all a contrarian has to quote are nepharious home-made parables and such.

Plus, neither says anything remotely related to cleaning up the environmental nor conservation. (oh ok, Thaksin had his "Bangkok turn off it's lights for an hour" thing - which was insipid).

[blaze]

The article was written on Thursday, interview was on Wednesday.

My theory was that it was due to pressure from Sonthi that the junta hasn't crack down on protesters from the start. Interestingly, that's what Sonthi mentioned in the interview as well (but, of course, without taking any credit).

However stupid this theory is, it is a blatant misrepresentation of the facts to say that Sonthi supported Burmese junta's violence.

His initial response was to excuse the violence saying that perhaps it hasn't really happened (yet reports were indicating that it was happening at the time and he was, I believe, responding to those repors) and that if in fact there had been violence, it was probably because the demonstraters provoked the army. Now what does that tell you about where the General's gut level sympathies must lie: with those who wish to see Burma become a democracy- or with the dictators and their uniformed goons.

Basically in the same way some people seek to exculpate the Thai junta for any possible breech of basic moral decency, his first response was to try to exculpate the Burmese dictators. And the fact that he has not come out loud and clear to censor the Burmese military at this time- should tell you a lot about his tolerance for brutal dictatorships. If he can't say anything in defence of the fascists next door- he says nothing at all.

At no time have I claimed that Sonthi supported the violence- only that he attempted to either discount it or to excuse it. But to get a little bit semantic: when he said that the violence, if it had occurred, was probably due to the demonstrators provoking the soldiers- that comes very close to saying that the soldiers did what they had to do. Is that supporting them? Perilously close to it, I think.

Edited September 28, 2007 by blaze

[Mid]

However stupid this theory is, it is a blatant misrepresentation of the facts to say that Sonthi supported Burmese junta's violence.

true enough ,

however blatant misrepresentation seems to be contagious ................................

[hammered]

Gen. Sonthis remarks were either stupid or .... He should rescind them immediately. And Thailand should definitely rethink its "constructive engagement policy" which is more aimed at lets get all the business deals we can while ignoring the suffering. I also doubt that the Burmese Junta are much influenced by Thai poiticians or generals in respect of crackdowns although they may well be right open to a few multi billion dollar business deals. There is massive hypocricy across the political spectrum in this country in regards to the Burmese Junta who do have a proven track record of violence. That said Gen Sonthi does deserve to be condemend for his remarks. All imho of course.

[hammered]

If Sonthi, does plan to contest the election then his public statements on matters of international concern should, in my view be very much 'on-topic'. It should be noted that these comments were made on Wednesday night, though one would anticipate that his intelligence data would be better then most.

... Gen. Sonthi Boonyaratglin, speaking on television Wednesday night, defended the Burmese government, saying no military force was used and that only police were deployed, although the Internet was awash with pictures of uniformed soldiers confronting the marchers.

"The actual tactics may vary from country to country," Sonthi said. "I think there is no violence in the current situation. Everything is under control.

"On the reports that Buddhist monks were assaulted [during the dispersal of demonstrations], that cannot be concluded just from looking at the photos. I was informed that Burma uses dialogue to solve the problem, and senior Buddhist monks have helped negotiate to end the problem."

LINK Asia Sentinel

Regards

I do hope that the truthfulness of his comments on the demonstrations here in Bangkok, especially the one that went out of hand at the residence of Prem, are seen in the same light now.

Asiasentinel has the most accurate account of those demonstrations at Prem's residence as well, and they are very much in contrast to official propaganda as delivered by Sonthi, Surayudh &Co.

The Asia sentinel report is also very divergent from what most of the internatinal media reported happened - riot and police restraint. The riot around Prems residence is now in the past the history of it is written and will not change. If that history is different to reality that would not be unique as virtually no history is totally accurate. However, those interantional media reports will stand as the record and not a single report by Mr. Ten Kate in a small asian news site.

Personally I prefer to listen to the words of the residents who lived there rather than any of the media or any of the bais interest groups. Their words were not all that complimentary about the pro-Thaksin rioters, but many forget the innocents that become victims.

The small pro-Thaksin anti-Prem riot/rally is also certainly not comparable to the full on movement occuring in Burma, which seems to have mass support. If anything the event outside an 80 year olds house was a massive own goal by the pro-Thaksin people as it seems to have been viewed as going too far by many people. Certainly the UDD now seem an insignificant remnant as they are abandoned by the full on Thaksinistas who have moved into election mode and the UDD are now noticeably not even attracting much comment from the government.

Hi Hammered,

I don't have any information on the Prem residence incident other than what I read in the press, where the evidence is mixed.However I would like to put a couple of points out for consideration.

1.Firstly history is never written in stone and it fact it always changes as time goes by.This was pounded into the heads of undergraduates at Cambridge and I'm sure elsewhere.If you ever get the chance to talk to a trained historian (Chris Baker for example) I would be astonished if he did not tell you the same thing.Therefore there is a current well informed view (let's call it the own goal position) of what happened at Prem's house but I guarantee you that in twenty years time historians will not look at it the same way.

2.Daniel Ten Kate in his low key way has been one of the most influential of commentators in recent political developments.Obviously he's not right all the time but you appear very dismissive of somebody who is very high quality.And heaven knows we need well informed and thoughtful commentators like him.

3.For general consideration does anyone have any views why nobody on this forum seems interested in Sondhi's appalling comments on Burma which even the normally craven English language press have picked up on? Is it I wonder the view of the juntaphiles that anything can be excused the senior officers who overthrew Thaksin? The silence is deafening.

On number three please see an earlier post of mine.

On number one you may have a point however whether what historians write now or will write in the future could easily be argued as not exactly shaping world opinion in the modern world controlled by carefully marketted memes, so that must remain at least moot. We should also never forget that history ends up being written by the victors whoever they may be.

I actually have no opinion on Mr. Ten Kate and usually read his stuff although my opinion of journalists in general is very low having seen at first hand how they have misrepresented even the most straihgtforward and simplist stories. Hwever I digress. The main story on the Prem residence incident was iirc an AP one in whihc it was reported that the crowd had rioted. They even added something along the lines of "inspite of the police action seeming restrained" march organisers claimed.... Admittedly internationally news from Thailand is not exactly important howeevr, this one wire report seemed to be the one largely agreed with and inspite of my own low opinion of journalists it has to be said they are the ones who set the "facts" in these cases. Whatever I or anyone thinks of Mr. Ten Kate he hardly carries the influence of the AP wire service even if he now has furthered his career by getting the odd column in the Christian Science Monitor.

By the way my use of the own goal idea is based not on any media or educated opinion but just on the reaction of ordinary people I know including many Thaksin supporters who didnt like the violence. Not really surprising for Thailand admittedly.

Edited September 28, 2007 by hammered

[Plus]

So far I've seen only this:

"Gen. Sonthi Boonyaratglin, speaking on television Wednesday night, defended the Burmese government, saying no military force was used and that only police were deployed.."

As far as I can see he defended the junta so long as they didn't use the military force. You can't extrapolate that he is still supporting the junta now, after the blood was spilled.

For all we know he might be on the phone with Maung Aye edging him to oust Tan Shwe after the violence broke out.

Surayud, btw, was speaking about Burma at the UN today:

"PM calls for Burma to desist from using violence

Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont, took the stage at the United Nations General Assembly Thursday representing Asean, called upon the Burmese military junta to stop using force against massive demonstration which already killed nine people.

Thailand and Burma, being predominantly Buddhists, shared the belief of non-violence and tolerance. "Thailand therefore finds as unacceptable the commission of violence and bodily harm to Buddhists monks and other demonstrators in Yangoon (Rangoon)," he told the audiences at the UN."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/09/28...es_30050569.php

Not too bad, considering that any stronger language could have been construed as hypocritical.

[hammered]

So far I've seen only this:

"Gen. Sonthi Boonyaratglin, speaking on television Wednesday night, defended the Burmese government, saying no military force was used and that only police were deployed.."

As far as I can see he defended the junta so long as they didn't use the military force. You can't extrapolate that he is still supporting the junta now, after the blood was spilled.

For all we know he might be on the phone with Maung Aye edging him to oust Tan Shwe after the violence broke out.

Surayud, btw, was speaking about Burma at the UN today:

"PM calls for Burma to desist from using violence

Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont, took the stage at the United Nations General Assembly Thursday representing Asean, called upon the Burmese military junta to stop using force against massive demonstration which already killed nine people.

Thailand and Burma, being predominantly Buddhists, shared the belief of non-violence and tolerance. "Thailand therefore finds as unacceptable the commission of violence and bodily harm to Buddhists monks and other demonstrators in Yangoon (Rangoon)," he told the audiences at the UN."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/09/28...es_30050569.php

Not too bad, considering that any stronger language could have been construed as hypocritical.

I wouldnt doubt he is being misrepresented at least to some degree by his opponents who seem to have multiplied recently.Howeevr, he is now in the reaslm of politics and maybe wants to reamin in it. He needs to at least clarify what he said if it were a genuine error, or if he were terribly misinformed state that and set the record straight, and if it were not an error or lack of information an apology would seem the way to go maybe linked to a decision not to take his political career any further forward.

[Siripon]

General Sonthi is suffering from an affliction known as 'microphonitus' the symptoms are a tendency to speak without sufficient thought first, leading to confusion on the part of the listener.The cause is from giving daily interviews to the press even when one has nothing constructive to say and treatment is usually a period of rest out of the public eye.

I agree his remarks were inappropriate even for a military man.

Does anyone remember Frank, the leader of the oppressed people's remark when he ws in office that, 'he fully understood the reasons why the Burmese junta had to keep Aung San Sui Kyi under house arrest'.

A truly disgraceful remark for a democratically elected leader.

[younghusband]

General Sonthi is suffering from an affliction known as 'microphonitus' the symptoms are a tendency to speak without sufficient thought first, leading to confusion on the part of the listener.The cause is from giving daily interviews to the press even when one has nothing constructive to say and treatment is usually a period of rest out of the public eye.

I agree his remarks were inappropriate even for a military man.

Does anyone remember Frank, the leader of the oppressed people's remark when he ws in office that, 'he fully understood the reasons why the Burmese junta had to keep Aung San Sui Kyi under house arrest'.

A truly disgraceful remark for a democratically elected leader.

You are correct.Thaksin's attitude was repellent.So was Sonthi's wretched comment and if you don't mind me pointing out it's the unscripted or unthought out comment that often shows genuinely deeply held views.Anyway at least we know the kind of disgusting person we're dealing with now.

[Mid]

Sonthi will take job of deputy PM

Saturday September 29, 2007

Outgoing army chief Gen Sonthi Boonyaratkalin has agreed to take on the position of deputy prime minister overseeing national security, amid speculation he could also be made interior minister if Aree Wongarya steps down.

Defence Minister Boonrawd Somtas said Monday that the Council for National Security (CNS) chairman had consulted him on the matter before making up his mind to join the cabinet after he retires from the army at the end of the month

snip

bangkokpost.com

and if you told me the sun was shining Gen Sonthi Boonyaratkalin , I would need to go outside and take a look .

[hammered]

General Sonthi is suffering from an affliction known as 'microphonitus' the symptoms are a tendency to speak without sufficient thought first, leading to confusion on the part of the listener.The cause is from giving daily interviews to the press even when one has nothing constructive to say and treatment is usually a period of rest out of the public eye.

I agree his remarks were inappropriate even for a military man.

Does anyone remember Frank, the leader of the oppressed people's remark when he ws in office that, 'he fully understood the reasons why the Burmese junta had to keep Aung San Sui Kyi under house arrest'.

A truly disgraceful remark for a democratically elected leader.

You are correct.Thaksin's attitude was repellent.So was Sonthi's wretched comment and if you don't mind me pointing out it's the unscripted or unthought out comment that often shows genuinely deeply held views.Anyway at least we know the kind of disgusting person we're dealing with now.

It seems Thailand could well do with a new generation of leaders in the realms of politics, the military and probably a host of other areas. Sometimes I dispair but usually a talk with some people of the younger generations helps. I just hope as they age they dont lose their ideals as it is not until one is elderly that they seem to be listened to.

[blaze]

General Sonthi is suffering from an affliction known as 'microphonitus' the symptoms are a tendency to speak without sufficient thought first, leading to confusion on the part of the listener.The cause is from giving daily interviews to the press even when one has nothing constructive to say and treatment is usually a period of rest out of the public eye.

I agree his remarks were inappropriate even for a military man.

Does anyone remember Frank, the leader of the oppressed people's remark when he ws in office that, 'he fully understood the reasons why the Burmese junta had to keep Aung San Sui Kyi under house arrest'.

A truly disgraceful remark for a democratically elected leader.

You are correct.Thaksin's attitude was repellent.So was Sonthi's wretched comment and if you don't mind me pointing out it's the unscripted or unthought out comment that often shows genuinely deeply held views.Anyway at least we know the kind of disgusting person we're dealing with now.

It seems Thailand could well do with a new generation of leaders in the realms of politics, the military and probably a host of other areas. Sometimes I dispair but usually a talk with some people of the younger generations helps. I just hope as they age they dont lose their ideals as it is not until one is elderly that they seem to be listened to.

I'm afraid it takes more than ideals. The younger Thais scaresly raised a whisper when tanks rolled through their streets. (And no matter how 'nescessary' the 'evil' is perceived to be, evil is NEVER greeted with garlands).

The ones I know were quite thrilled that Saprang was going to be the one to clean up the airport mess. And they were enthusiastic about the appointment of the new police chief- because he had met their tv fuelled criteria of what a good cop does= single handedly bust a mafia den. (Makes a good beat cop- but the head of a huge and moribund beaurocracy in drastic need of systemic reordering?).

Ideals is a start- but without the principles to stand against the stream in defense of those ideals- then the ideals are little more than a trendy fad. And I'm not hopeful- there is too much in the Thai culture that surpresses individual principles in favor of subservience to the powerful and conformity with the popular.

[ColPyat]

It seems Thailand could well do with a new generation of leaders in the realms of politics, the military and probably a host of other areas. Sometimes I dispair but usually a talk with some people of the younger generations helps. I just hope as they age they dont lose their ideals as it is not until one is elderly that they seem to be listened to.

Depends which younger generation you speak with.

If you speak with the younger generation of Chulachomklao Military Academy Graduates, you will find that they are as ideologically trained as ever, young politicians have to enter the patronage networks to advance, as usual, and the sons of the influential people are as blaze as they always are.

The only hope is that upcountry people are beginning to question the system, and that there is the beginning of an urban worker class where we don't really know yet where they are going to develop.

[hammered]

It seems Thailand could well do with a new generation of leaders in the realms of politics, the military and probably a host of other areas. Sometimes I dispair but usually a talk with some people of the younger generations helps. I just hope as they age they dont lose their ideals as it is not until one is elderly that they seem to be listened to.

Depends which younger generation you speak with.

If you speak with the younger generation of Chulachomklao Military Academy Graduates, you will find that they are as ideologically trained as ever, young politicians have to enter the patronage networks to advance, as usual, and the sons of the influential people are as blaze as they always are.

The only hope is that upcountry people are beginning to question the system, and that there is the beginning of an urban worker class where we don't really know yet where they are going to develop.

Hi Colpyat.

I dont really know any officer cadets and only one or two politicians sons. I am referring more to middle and urban working class young people who across the board generaly seem to want to see change and who when you talk to them actually feel the older generations have let them down as much as anyting else. The old traditional respect your elders as well as betters stuff is disappearng as quickly as Thai traditional dress amongst the young people I mix with although in the rural areas it seems to be different. Imho as the politcal situation develops a divide will develop between the rural and urban working classes as what they want is already starting to differ. At the moment a lot fo the urban working class are disenfrachisedas they dont own land where they work and either dont go home to vote or if they do there large vote is actually disippated across the provinces giving them the weakest hand fo the lot of the groups. This really needs addressing with Thailand rapidly urbanising and yet leaving what will become the largest class in Thailand unrepresented. Of course all those in power whether the old school general brigade, the urban politicos, or the Thaksinistas do not want to address this as the patronage vote where you are registered system suits them well. In thsi development lies potentially the greatest clash and greatest disiaster for Thailand especially if/when the economy goes south.

[nothingleftbutfaith]

General Sonthi is suffering from an affliction known as 'microphonitus' the symptoms are a tendency to speak without sufficient thought first, leading to confusion on the part of the listener.The cause is from giving daily interviews to the press even when one has nothing constructive to say and treatment is usually a period of rest out of the public eye.

I agree his remarks were inappropriate even for a military man.

Does anyone remember Frank, the leader of the oppressed people's remark when he ws in office that, 'he fully understood the reasons why the Burmese junta had to keep Aung San Sui Kyi under house arrest'.

A truly disgraceful remark for a democratically elected leader.

You are correct.Thaksin's attitude was repellent.So was Sonthi's wretched comment and if you don't mind me pointing out it's the unscripted or unthought out comment that often shows genuinely deeply held views.Anyway at least we know the kind of disgusting person we're dealing with now.

It seems Thailand could well do with a new generation of leaders in the realms of politics, the military and probably a host of other areas. Sometimes I dispair but usually a talk with some people of the younger generations helps. I just hope as they age they dont lose their ideals as it is not until one is elderly that they seem to be listened to.

I'm afraid it takes more than ideals. The younger Thais scaresly raised a whisper when tanks rolled through their streets. (And no matter how 'nescessary' the 'evil' is perceived to be, evil is NEVER greeted with garlands).

The ones I know were quite thrilled that Saprang was going to be the one to clean up the airport mess. And they were enthusiastic about the appointment of the new police chief- because he had met their tv fuelled criteria of what a good cop does= single handedly bust a mafia den. (Makes a good beat cop- but the head of a huge and moribund beaurocracy in drastic need of systemic reordering?).

Ideals is a start- but without the principles to stand against the stream in defense of those ideals- then the ideals are little more than a trendy fad. And I'm not hopeful- there is too much in the Thai culture that surpresses individual principles in favor of subservience to the powerful and conformity with the popular.

Do you reaaly think the younger Thais give a shit ?

As long as they can buy ( with money stolen by their father,mother, uncle, family....) a BMW or a BENZ they do't give a shit.

Sad , but all too true .

.

[blaze]

General Sonthi is suffering from an affliction known as 'microphonitus' the symptoms are a tendency to speak without sufficient thought first, leading to confusion on the part of the listener.The cause is from giving daily interviews to the press even when one has nothing constructive to say and treatment is usually a period of rest out of the public eye.

I agree his remarks were inappropriate even for a military man.

Does anyone remember Frank, the leader of the oppressed people's remark when he ws in office that, 'he fully understood the reasons why the Burmese junta had to keep Aung San Sui Kyi under house arrest'.

A truly disgraceful remark for a democratically elected leader.

You are correct.Thaksin's attitude was repellent.So was Sonthi's wretched comment and if you don't mind me pointing out it's the unscripted or unthought out comment that often shows genuinely deeply held views.Anyway at least we know the kind of disgusting person we're dealing with now.

It seems Thailand could well do with a new generation of leaders in the realms of politics, the military and probably a host of other areas. Sometimes I dispair but usually a talk with some people of the younger generations helps. I just hope as they age they dont lose their ideals as it is not until one is elderly that they seem to be listened to.

I'm afraid it takes more than ideals. The younger Thais scaresly raised a whisper when tanks rolled through their streets. (And no matter how 'nescessary' the 'evil' is perceived to be, evil is NEVER greeted with garlands).

The ones I know were quite thrilled that Saprang was going to be the one to clean up the airport mess. And they were enthusiastic about the appointment of the new police chief- because he had met their tv fuelled criteria of what a good cop does= single handedly bust a mafia den. (Makes a good beat cop- but the head of a huge and moribund beaurocracy in drastic need of systemic reordering?).

Ideals is a start- but without the principles to stand against the stream in defense of those ideals- then the ideals are little more than a trendy fad. And I'm not hopeful- there is too much in the Thai culture that surpresses individual principles in favor of subservience to the powerful and conformity with the popular.

Do you reaaly think the younger Thais give a shit ?

As long as they can buy ( with money stolen by their father,mother, uncle, family....) a BMW or a BENZ they do't give a shit.

Sad , but all too true .

.

Most Thais are poor. Neither they nor their children expect a mercedes. A used pick up or a functioning motorbike is more accurate. One could predict that (contrary to the points I made earlier) that sooner or later, those young Thais- the poor young Thais- unlike the young in the west who are every bit, by and large, as apolitical- will come to question the economic inequities. They might not arrive at the right answers. But as soon as they any kind of collective action they are involved in politics. I still think though that this will require a rejection of those aspects of the culture which provides them with a modicum of dignity in exchange for their not rocking the boat. And that will be the shift that heralds a new Thailand. For better or worse.

[nothingleftbutfaith]

General Sonthi is suffering from an affliction known as 'microphonitus' the symptoms are a tendency to speak without sufficient thought first, leading to confusion on the part of the listener.The cause is from giving daily interviews to the press even when one has nothing constructive to say and treatment is usually a period of rest out of the public eye.

I agree his remarks were inappropriate even for a military man.

Does anyone remember Frank, the leader of the oppressed people's remark when he ws in office that, 'he fully understood the reasons why the Burmese junta had to keep Aung San Sui Kyi under house arrest'.

A truly disgraceful remark for a democratically elected leader.

You are correct.Thaksin's attitude was repellent.So was Sonthi's wretched comment and if you don't mind me pointing out it's the unscripted or unthought out comment that often shows genuinely deeply held views.Anyway at least we know the kind of disgusting person we're dealing with now.

It seems Thailand could well do with a new generation of leaders in the realms of politics, the military and probably a host of other areas. Sometimes I dispair but usually a talk with some people of the younger generations helps. I just hope as they age they dont lose their ideals as it is not until one is elderly that they seem to be listened to.

I'm afraid it takes more than ideals. The younger Thais scaresly raised a whisper when tanks rolled through their streets. (And no matter how 'nescessary' the 'evil' is perceived to be, evil is NEVER greeted with garlands).

The ones I know were quite thrilled that Saprang was going to be the one to clean up the airport mess. And they were enthusiastic about the appointment of the new police chief- because he had met their tv fuelled criteria of what a good cop does= single handedly bust a mafia den. (Makes a good beat cop- but the head of a huge and moribund beaurocracy in drastic need of systemic reordering?).

Ideals is a start- but without the principles to stand against the stream in defense of those ideals- then the ideals are little more than a trendy fad. And I'm not hopeful- there is too much in the Thai culture that surpresses individual principles in favor of subservience to the powerful and conformity with the popular.

Do you reaaly think the younger Thais give a shit ?

As long as they can buy ( with money stolen by their father,mother, uncle, family....) a BMW or a BENZ they do't give a shit.

Sad , but all too true .

.

Most Thais are poor. Neither they nor their children expect a mercedes. A used pick up or a functioning motorbike is more accurate. One could predict that (contrary to the points I made earlier) that sooner or later, those young Thais- the poor young Thais- unlike the young in the west who are every bit, by and large, as apolitical- will come to question the economic inequities. They might not arrive at the right answers. But as soon as they any kind of collective action they are involved in politics. I still think though that this will require a rejection of those aspects of the culture which provides them with a modicum of dignity in exchange for their not rocking the boat. And that will be the shift that heralds a new Thailand. For better or worse.

Very much later, if ever , is the term I can see now, given the amount of daily brainwashing Thai people have to put up with .....

[sriracha john]

I apologize for the intrusion of this on-topic post, which, once again, contradicts the OP:

Sonthi in no mood to play politics

Won't go after post of prime minister

Council for National Security chairman Sonthi Boonyaratkalin yesterday made it clear that he would not be gunning for the premiership, now or in the future. Making his intention known during an interview on Channel 5's Jorh Jai talk show, Gen Sonthi said he was in no mood to play politics after retirement from the army.

His retirement takes effect tomorrow. The outgoing army chief said he would not be left jobless as he would still remain CNS chief. Gen Sonthi insisted that assuming the premiership was not on his agenda. The interview will be aired on Thursday.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/30Sep2007_news02.php

[Mid]

here's the deal SJ ,

if the man in question told you the sun was shining you'd better go outside and look ................................

[sriracha john]

Thank you for your refreshingly on-topic response...

It'd be prudent to do that with nearly anyone in any senior position... but after nearly 3 months since the rumor-based OP, one would think something more substantive would come along to back it up. But anyway, the election is in another 2 months, so we'll know definitively then.

Edited September 30, 2007 by sriracha john

[hammered]

Thank you for your refreshingly on-topic response...

It'd be prudent to do that with nearly anyone in any senior position... but after nearly 3 months since the rumor-based OP, one would think something more substantive would come along to back it up. But anyway, the election is in another 2 months, so we'll know definitively then.

The election is only two months away but the requisite laws need to be finalised by the NLA, which gives them a nice amount of leverage. There is also the question of the senate. We have heard a lot about how the lower house election will run and how the government will form. However, has anyone heard if the senate election for half of the senators will be at the same time or later? If there is no senate how will legislation be enacted until it is elected/appointed? Or is there a constittutional caveat that allows some other body to act as senate in a senates abscence?

On the thread issue more directly, I think Sonthi said something along the lines of 99% he wouldnt run in the lower house election and on this I tend to believe him. It is probably easire for him to cut a deal with a party, probably one of the ex-TRT new ones.

[jbowman1993]

here's the deal SJ ,

if the man in question told you the sun was shining you'd better go outside and look ................................

Is there an echo in here?

[Mid]

only in your empty head ........................