heybruce Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 11 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said: I was really only responding to the notion that an 'unopposed motion' that was drafted in consultation with the defense is a "significant victory" for the prosecution. Fair enough. It will still be interesting to see if Trump can keep his mouth shut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrymahoney Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 26 minutes ago, heybruce said: Fair enough. It will still be interesting to see if Trump can keep his mouth shut. Defense attorneys may decide that, although they get to look at the classified documents, it isn't necessary to show Trump anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThailandRyan Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 Here is his defense, well he is deflecting on why he did not return the documents when asked. Trump says he didn't hand over documents because he was 'very busy' (usatoday.com) Former President Donald Trump offered a new explanation Monday as to why he didn't return classified documents he took with him from the White House, saying he was "very busy" and didn't have time to separate them from his personal belongings. Trump made the comments in an interview with Fox News' chief political anchor Bret Baier on his show Special Report. Asked why he didn't simply return the bankers boxes full of documents after the National Archives and Justice Department moved to subpoena him, Trump said, "Because I had boxes, I wanted to go through the boxes and get all of my personal things out. I don't want to hand that over to NARA yet. And I was very busy, as you’ve sort of seen." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post GroveHillWanderer Posted June 20, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 20, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said: Here is his defense, well he is deflecting on why he did not return the documents when asked. Trump says he didn't hand over documents because he was 'very busy' (usatoday.com) Former President Donald Trump offered a new explanation Monday as to why he didn't return classified documents he took with him from the White House, saying he was "very busy" and didn't have time to separate them from his personal belongings. Trump made the comments in an interview with Fox News' chief political anchor Bret Baier on his show Special Report. Asked why he didn't simply return the bankers boxes full of documents after the National Archives and Justice Department moved to subpoena him, Trump said, "Because I had boxes, I wanted to go through the boxes and get all of my personal things out. I don't want to hand that over to NARA yet. And I was very busy, as you’ve sort of seen." You might have thought that even Trump would realise that, "I'm very busy," is not a valid legal reason for failing to comply with a subpoena. Clearly not, though. Edited June 20, 2023 by GroveHillWanderer 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThailandRyan Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 1 minute ago, GroveHillWanderer said: You might have thought that even Trump would realise that, "I'm very busy," is not a valid legal reason for failing to comply with a subpoena. Clearly not, though. More deflection and denial on his part. "I needed to separate my personal items from all others in the boxes" now that's rich. Had the man not been denying the election was stolen and then tried to lead an insurrection he would have had almost 2 months to gather his personal items in separate boxes while leaving the Documents at the White House for NARA. His interview also violates the new rules for the case as to not discussing it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 15 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said: More deflection and denial on his part. "I needed to separate my personal items from all others in the boxes" now that's rich. Had the man not been denying the election was stolen and then tried to lead an insurrection he would have had almost 2 months to gather his personal items in separate boxes while leaving the Documents at the White House for NARA. His interview also violates the new rules for the case as to not discussing it. Its also a clear admission that he was deliberately holding onto items for his own personal reasons no matter how lame they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrymahoney Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 (edited) 27 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said: His interview also violates the new rules for the case as to not discussing it. The Protective Order only deals with discovery materials: 5. Defendants’ Review of Discovery Materials. Defendants shall only have access to Discovery Materials under the direct supervision of Defense Counsel or a member of Defense Counsel’s staff. Defendants shall not retain copies of Discovery Material. Defendants may take notes regarding Discovery Materials, but such notes shall be stored securely by Defense Counsel or a member of Defense Counsel’s staff in the same manner as the Discovery Materials. https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.648653/gov.uscourts.flsd.648653.27.0.pdf Edited June 20, 2023 by jerrymahoney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 37 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said: You might have thought that even Trump would realise that, "I'm very busy," is not a valid legal reason for failing to comply with a subpoena. Clearly not, though. Doesn't matter. He doesn't have a legal defense and is not interested. He is fighting this out in the public realm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 32 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said: <snip> His interview also violates the new rules for the case as to not discussing it. It doesn't violate the present ruling which pertains to revealing classified documents/information. I would not be surprised if later on a gag order will be issued though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrymahoney Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 1 minute ago, stevenl said: It doesn't violate the present ruling which pertains to revealing classified documents/information. I would not be surprised if later on a gag order will be issued though. A gag order might (maybe) be sought by the Prosecution once a jury is selected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThailandRyan Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 24 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said: A gag order might (maybe) be sought by the Prosecution once a jury is selected. Sorry but I mixed up his indictment cases. The other one does have a Gag order on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrymahoney Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said: Sorry but I mixed up his indictment cases. The other one does have a Gag order on it. Well the NY Court Bragg - indictment seems mostly the same: A state judge in New York cautioned former President Donald Trump on Tuesday to obey a protective order dictating how he can talk about discovery materials during the upcoming criminal trial stemming from hush money payments paid to a former adult movie actress. The order covers how Trump communicates publicly about emails, photographs, testimony and other evidence gathered as legal proceedings move forward ahead of the trial date set for March 25, 2024. During a hearing held over a video connection, Judge Juan Merchan told Trump he must obey a protective order or there could be a "wide range of possible sanctions including a finding of contempt." https://www.npr.org/2023/05/23/1177644144/trump-stormy-daniels-judge-new-york-hush-money-case-carroll But it does get confusing. I think of the old baseball stadium hawker line: Can’t tell the players without a program. Edited June 20, 2023 by jerrymahoney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Mist Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 5 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said: Well the NY Court Bragg - indictment seems mostly the same: A state judge in New York cautioned former President Donald Trump on Tuesday to obey a protective order dictating how he can talk about discovery materials during the upcoming criminal trial stemming from hush money payments paid to a former adult movie actress. The order covers how Trump communicates publicly about emails, photographs, testimony and other evidence gathered as legal proceedings move forward ahead of the trial date set for March 25, 2024. During a hearing held over a video connection, Judge Juan Merchan told Trump he must obey a protective order or there could be a "wide range of possible sanctions including a finding of contempt." https://www.npr.org/2023/05/23/1177644144/trump-stormy-daniels-judge-new-york-hush-money-case-carroll But it does get confusing. I think of the old baseball stadium hawker line: Can’t tell the players without a program But Trump seems to want to play whack-a-mole. He would do himself many favors if he could just stay silent, yet he can not. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrymahoney Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Pink Mist said: Trump seems to want to play whack-a-mole. He would do himself many favors if he could just stay silent, yet he can not. Well aside that his lawyers might be telling him to be quiet and give us a break, a gag order other than for discovery material would -- at least to me -- not make sense up to and until an actual trial and jury seating, as such a gag order would (?) be challenged on First Amendment rights. But not after. Because then ex-POTUS could be accused of trying to influence the jury. Edited June 20, 2023 by jerrymahoney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chomper Higgot Posted June 20, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 20, 2023 2 hours ago, Pink Mist said: Trump seems to want to play whack-a-mole. He would do himself many favors if he could just stay silent, yet he can not. He’s just been on FOX running his mouth again and destroying reasonable doubt arguments by the minute. Trump’s mouth is an evidence rich environment. Give him a ‘gag order’? Nah, give him a stage a microphone and cameras to capture the flow of self incriminating statements as they flow. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 On 6/18/2023 at 9:07 PM, eisfeld said: Turns out that even if Trumps imaginary declassification of documents somehow would stick there's just a wee little problem for him: even a president can't declassify nuclear secrets. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-lacked-power-declassify-secret-nuclear-arms-document-experts-say-2023-06-18/ “Document No. 19 Formerly Restricted Data concerning nuclear weaponry of the United States.” Now, why did he want to hold in to this and who had access to it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 4 hours ago, ThailandRyan said: More deflection and denial on his part. "I needed to separate my personal items from all others in the boxes" now that's rich. Had the man not been denying the election was stolen and then tried to lead an insurrection he would have had almost 2 months to gather his personal items in separate boxes while leaving the Documents at the White House for NARA. His interview also violates the new rules for the case as to not discussing it. The question I would put in court would be "Did you ever play golf after you received the subpoena? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earlinclaifornia Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 5 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said: You might have thought that even Trump would realise that, "I'm very busy," is not a valid legal reason for failing to comply with a subpoena. Clearly not, though. On Fox Brit Hume: Trump defense of taking documents ‘incoherent’ https://news.yahoo.com/brit-hume-trump-defense-taking-231546590.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrymahoney Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 (edited) The New York Times reporter Maggie Haberman -- who has been following Trump in NY for years before he became President -- has a report on the Fox Interview here. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/19/us/politics/trump-classified-document-fox-news.html https://archive.is/mLcNA But this whole Bedminster NJ audio tape may become what Alfred Hitchcock called the MacGuffin. The real issue here for Trump is the 37 count indictment in Florida and -- if for their sake alone -- I hope Kise and Blanche know what they are doing despite the big upfront retainers they have been reported to have received. Edited June 20, 2023 by jerrymahoney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eisfeld Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 5 hours ago, Pink Mist said: Trump seems to want to play whack-a-mole. He would do himself many favors if he could just stay silent, yet he can not. We're going to see why "Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law" is an important warning. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post proton Posted June 20, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 20, 2023 5 hours ago, Pink Mist said: Trump seems to want to play whack-a-mole. He would do himself many favors if he could just stay silent, yet he can not. why should he not be able to defend himself against the witch hunt against him? 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 3 minutes ago, proton said: why should he not be able to defend himself against the witch hunt against him? He could but he's doing the opposite. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrymahoney Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 (edited) This from Jonathan Turly on Twitter: ...They (DOJ) may also have a specific document in mind, but they have not indicated that they have proof of its removal. That could be part of the case to come. However, we now know Trump's account of the audiotape. Exclusive: Trump attorneys haven’t found classified document former president referred to on tape following subpoena The sources say prosecutors made clear to Trump’s attorneys after issuing the subpoena that they specifically wanted the Iran document he talked about on tape as well as any material referencing classified information – like meeting notes, audio recordings or copies of the document – that may still be Trump’s possession. Attorneys for Donald Trump turned over material in mid-March in response to a federal subpoena related to a classified US military document described by the former president on tape in 2021 but were unable to find the document itself, two sources tell CNN. It is unclear if the government already possesses a copy of the Iran document from the boxes Trump’s legal team returned to the National Archives last year or recovered in the subsequent FBI search. https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/02/politics/donald-trump-iran-subpoena/index.html Edited June 20, 2023 by jerrymahoney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 33 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said: This from Jonathan Turly on Twitter: ...They (DOJ) may also have a specific document in mind, but they have not indicated that they have proof of its removal. That could be part of the case to come. However, we now know Trump's account of the audiotape. Exclusive: Trump attorneys haven’t found classified document former president referred to on tape following subpoena The sources say prosecutors made clear to Trump’s attorneys after issuing the subpoena that they specifically wanted the Iran document he talked about on tape as well as any material referencing classified information – like meeting notes, audio recordings or copies of the document – that may still be Trump’s possession. Attorneys for Donald Trump turned over material in mid-March in response to a federal subpoena related to a classified US military document described by the former president on tape in 2021 but were unable to find the document itself, two sources tell CNN. It is unclear if the government already possesses a copy of the Iran document from the boxes Trump’s legal team returned to the National Archives last year or recovered in the subsequent FBI search. https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/02/politics/donald-trump-iran-subpoena/index.html We know as a matter of recorded fact Trump hid evidence and documents from his attorneys, why then pin hopes on Trump’s attorneys saying they can’t find documents? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrymahoney Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said: We know as a matter of recorded fact Trump hid evidence and documents from his attorneys, why then pin hopes on Trump’s attorneys saying they can’t find documents? The DOJ issued the subpoena in March and the attorneys responded mid -March. This was a June 2 CNN article and at least I have not noted that the DOJ has taken any further action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 59 minutes ago, proton said: why should he not be able to defend himself against the witch hunt against him? This ‘Witch hunt’ that relies on the sworn testimony of Trump loyalists, his attorneys, members of his administration, Republicans and members of his own family. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 42 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said: The DOJ issued the subpoena in March and the attorneys responded mid -March. This was a June 2 CNN article and at least I have not noted that the DOJ has taken any further action. The lack of news on the progress of investigations under Jack Smith has a habit of being a very poor indicator of what Jack Smith is investigating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANSIAM Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 Trump - the worst client any Attorney could have.........keep talkin trump....lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candide Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 6 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said: “Document No. 19 Formerly Restricted Data concerning nuclear weaponry of the United States.” Now, why did he want to hold in to this and who had access to it? So he could bragg about having the power to press the button while he was president! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 16 minutes ago, candide said: So he could bragg about having the power to press the button while he was president! So he could ingratiate himself with Putin - no other plausible explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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