Trump says he's been indicted in classified docs probe

[ozimoron]

Schiff said he was also “stunned” that the documents include information on military plans, the nuclear capabilities of U.S. enemies and the country’s vulnerabilities. 

 

“But I think this is the way of special counsel and a speaking indictment, letting all the American people know that this isn’t a paperwork violation,” he said. “These are national secrets that present real national security risks to the country.” 

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4043488-adam-schiff-trump-indictment-doj/

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

They got an education to last a lifetime, what sane person would pay money to go to Trump University.

What sane person would believe that a fraudster running a fake university should be President?

[heybruce]

33 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Every school like this promises that. That's not evidence,

I've attended many schools and none of them promised me a good job.  Of course I've never attended a fraudulent university.

[ozimoron]

The latest legal woe for Trump has his former aides fuming. “The indictment is devastating. Those who defended Trump before the charges were made public, or those who have not yet spoken, should very carefully weigh how history will consider their statements,” John Bolton, Trump’s third national security adviser, told POLITICO.

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/06/09/devastating-former-trump-officials-alarmed-over-military-secrets-found-at-mar-a-lago-00101366

[FritsSikkink]

29 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

 So you're telling stories saying these boxes contained classified docs. Stop the lies.

 

Proof is in the indictment, stop your lies and start reading the evidence.

[jerrymahoney]

4 hours ago, LosLobo said:

Although Jack Smith is seeking a 'speed trial' and Florida has a 'rocket docket' policy,  I would suggest Judge Cannon based on her past performance, may grant Trump a stay until at least the GOP Primaries. next year.

 

Then Trump, as it is DOJ policy not to prosecute candidates during elections, he may get to election day where he thinks he may find a way to run out the clock.

A Trump-Appointed Judge Who Showed Him Favor Gets the Documents Case
The surprise assignment of Judge Aileen Cannon could be a setback for prosecutors as they unveiled a sweeping classified files indictment.

 

Criminal defendants routinely claim that prosecutors threatened witnesses and committed other misconduct, and they rarely succeed. But if Judge Cannon entertains those claims more deferentially than trial judges normally do, Mr. Smith and his team could effectively go on trial before Mr. Trump.

 

“Pretrial litigation over the conduct of prosecutors is a good one for gumming things up and fits with Trump’s message, which is going to be out of control, politically motivated prosecutors,’” Mr. Buell said. “So we will see plenty of that.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/09/us/politics/trump-documents-judge-aileen-cannon.html

 

No paywall: https://archive.is/WGngA

[Walker88]

3 hours ago, Neeranam said:

If it was all about Trump, he'd be on one of his beautiful golf courses every day.

He doesn't need the money! 

He has not been convicted of anything, and won't be.

Actually, according to the Congressional Budget Office, trump was on one of his golf courses most days when he was POTUS, so there's precious little difference in his daily activities from his time in office and now. The entire bill for 4 years, including transport and security, came to $170,000,000.

 

When he wasn't on the golf course, he was often on the phone calling into Fox, or heading out to one of his rallies. Several books by ex-staffers noted that he spent very little time in the office, and usually just watched TV. I know people who briefed him on intel matters, and he wanted it done quickly, because he was missing Fox. The briefers finally resorted to just showing him pictures in order to get it done quickly.

 

Whether he needs money or not, why would a supposed billionaire issue ultra silly NFTs? Why was it only a few minutes between his admission of the indictment, and him sending out a plea for donations to fund his defense.

 

The evidence against him is overwhelming. He will be convicted. I also believe he will be jailed.

 

Also, there is still Georgia, and the big one is his fomenting of the 6 January 2021 terrorist attack against the US Capitol and the attempt to overthrow US democracy. SC Smith could well charge trump with Sedition, which is a capital offense that can carry the death penalty.

 

Given the damage he has done to national security, I would applaud the imposition of the harshest penalty against him.  Much better men and women have sacrificed over the last 250 years to keep the US safe, then this self-serving child comes along and takes TS/SCI, Codeword, SAP, HCS and RD classified document to a private club. As a former agency case officer, the cavalier handing of HCS documents disgusts me. I know what danger clandestine assets accept on behalf of the US. That bloated clown put their lives and their families lives in danger.

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

Image released of a stack of boxes similiar to what every American probablyy has. It goes on to say documents were found in the ballroom. Does not say boxes contained these documents. So you're telling stories saying these boxes contained classified docs. Stop the lies.

You sure about that?

 

"Nauta texted another Trump staffer a picture of documents containing classified information that were spewed all over a bathroom floor.

'I opened the door and found this,' he wrote, according to the indictment - and included two photographs of the spilled documents, at least one of which contained classified documents.

The indictment states that the specific documents were related to intelligence between the 'Five Eyes' countries.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12179535/Trump-accuses-FBI-STAGING-classified-documents-Mar-Lago.html

[jerrymahoney]

Just to expound on the NY Times article I posted above, the Clerk of the Southern District Court said that there are 15 active judges and each case is assigned randomly regardless if a judge was involved in a prior related case.

 

So the chance that Judge Cannon would get the Trump case twice would be 1 in 15 x 1 in 15 or 1 in 225. 

[Walker88]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Once again , that doesn't say that the FBI planted fake evidence in his Mar le go home .

   The FBI took documents out of safe storage and left documents on the floor in his house and claimed that they documents weren't kept in a secure location 

   

  

You miss the point. There is no 'safe storage' at his private club.

 

mar-a-lago is not a SCIF. It is not a secure location. Classified documents cannot be stored there.

 

The facts are: he removed documents from the WH he had no right to take. He kept them in a non secure location. He lied about handing them all back, and according to the indictment, ordered a staffer to move and hide classified documents (That is why Nauta is also named in the indictment).

 

Also according to the indictment, trump showed TS documents to members of his NJ golf club and admitted the docs were still highly classified. It is on tape.

 

For those trying to defend trump, why would he take documents classified as TS/SCI, SAP, Codeword, HCS and RD? What possible use could he have for them? Why did he order at least one staffer (Nauta) to continue to hide the documents even after he was supposed to return them? Why did he instruct his lawyers to lie and certify that everything had been returned (also in the indictment)?

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

Just to expound on the NY Times article I posted above, the Clerk of the Southern District Court said that there are 15 active judges and each case is assigned randomly regardless if a judge was involved in a prior related case.

 

So the chance that Judge Cannon would get the Trump case twice would be 1 in 15 x 1 in 15 or 1 in 225. 

Starting now, the chance is only 1 in 15. The past outcome has no bearing on the second outcome. If someone flips a coin once and it comes out heads, does that mean that the next time they flip it the odds are only 1 in 4 that it will come out heads? Now if before the coins were ever flipped, and they had to predict the outcomes, then the odds would have been 1 in 4 that heads would have come up twice in a row.

[stevenl]

10 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

Just to expound on the NY Times article I posted above, the Clerk of the Southern District Court said that there are 15 active judges and each case is assigned randomly regardless if a judge was involved in a prior related case.

 

So the chance that Judge Cannon would get the Trump case twice would be 1 in 15 x 1 in 15 or 1 in 225. 

But after having been assigned the first one the chance of being assigned the second one is 1 in 15.

[placeholder]

59 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

A Trump-Appointed Judge Who Showed Him Favor Gets the Documents Case
The surprise assignment of Judge Aileen Cannon could be a setback for prosecutors as they unveiled a sweeping classified files indictment.

 

Criminal defendants routinely claim that prosecutors threatened witnesses and committed other misconduct, and they rarely succeed. But if Judge Cannon entertains those claims more deferentially than trial judges normally do, Mr. Smith and his team could effectively go on trial before Mr. Trump.

 

“Pretrial litigation over the conduct of prosecutors is a good one for gumming things up and fits with Trump’s message, which is going to be out of control, politically motivated prosecutors,’” Mr. Buell said. “So we will see plenty of that.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/09/us/politics/trump-documents-judge-aileen-cannon.html

 

No paywall: https://archive.is/WGngA

Let's see if the spanking she got from the Appeals Court panel will have had a chastening effect.

[candide]

Before a MAGA posters comes up with this claim...

“Recent media reports have generated a large number of queries about Presidential records and the Presidential Records Act (PRA)," the Archives said in the statement. "The PRA requires that all records created by Presidents (and Vice-Presidents) be turned over to the National Archives and Records" Administration (NARA) at the end of their administrations."

“There is no history, practice, or provision in law for presidents to take official records with them when they leave office to sort through, such as for a two-year period as described in some reports," the Archives said.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/defense-national-security/donald-trump-national-archives-presidential-records-act

 

 

[EVENKEEL]

7 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

It is quite possible that SC Smith could charge trump with Sedition for trump's fomenting of the 6 Jan 2021 terrorist attack against the US Capitol and the attempt to overthrow US democracy.

 

Sedition is a capital offense that can carry the death penalty.

 

10 U.S. Code § 894 - Art. 94. Mutiny or sedition

The ole "it's quite possible" routine. Many things are quite possible.

[ozimoron]

8 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

It is quite possible that SC Smith could charge trump with Sedition for trump's fomenting of the 6 Jan 2021 terrorist attack against the US Capitol and the attempt to overthrow US democracy.

 

Sedition is a capital offense that can carry the death penalty.

 

10 U.S. Code § 894 - Art. 94. Mutiny or sedition

I'm expecting seditious conspiracy. There's no way a dozen others get jailed for that crime and he get away with it.

[placeholder]

5 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

I'm expecting seditious conspiracy. There's no way a dozen others get jailed for that crime and he get away with it.

With the evidence that's been made public, the case against Trump for the Capitol insurrection definitely looks weaker than the documents case. Of course, one reason for that is that the evidence in the document case is so strong. In fact, it looked strong enough before the indictment but a lot stronger now. So maybe, if Trump is indicted in that case, very strong evidence will emerge, too.

[billd766]

3 hours ago, xylophone said:

It absolutely astounds me that with all of the information about this probe and indictment that has been posted on this thread, as well as in the MSM, that there are some poor deluded people out there who believe that trump can do no wrong, is an honourable person and that he "wants to make the US better" – – I fear for the future of the US if there are too many of these people who have drunk the Kool-Aid and gone down the rabbit hole. 

 

Absolutely unbelievable......and the sad thing is that they believe what they post; or perhaps they do it just to antagonise the straight thinking intelligent folk amongst us?

What saddens me is that there are posters, even here on ANN, that when a direct link is quoted from Trump, they cannot or will not accept as a fact that it did come from Trump.

 

They will deny, prevaricate, deflect, twist the post in every possible way they can, yet still not accept the truth.

Edited June 10, 2023 by billd766
added extra text

[zzaa09]

15 minutes ago, billd766 said:

What saddens me is that there are posters, even here on ANN, that when a direct link is quoted from Trump, they cannot or will not accept as a fact that it did come from Trump.

 

They will deny, prevaricate, deflect, twist the post in every possible way they can, yet still not accept the truth.

Bit of a cult-like thing. 

As such applies to many different themes of life and thought. 

[scottiejohn]

6 minutes ago, zzaa09 said:

Bit of a cult-like thing. 

As such applies to many different themes of life and thought. 

But most certainly to the MEGA/Trump brigade!

 

If Trump were to say he hit a Golf ball into the water and he retrieved it by walking on the water they would believe him!

[Pink Mist]

Troll posts baiting another poster have been removed.  The discussion is not about other posters but rather:

 

Trump says he's been indicted in classified docs probe

[Walker88]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

The ole "it's quite possible" routine. Many things are quite possible.

SC Smith doesn't fool around. He treated the Kosovo and Serbia criminals harshly, and he will bring the full weight of the law on the traitor trump.

[Pink Mist]

A post with unsubstantiated unsupported claims has been removed as well as a reply.

[metisdead]

A post with a video from an unapproved social media source and the replies have been removed:

18. Social media content is acceptable in most forums. However in factual areas such as but not limited to news, current affairs and health topics, social media cannot be used unless it is from a credible news media source or a government agency, and must include a link to the original source. In some circumstances a moderator may relax this rule and this will be determined on a case by case basis. If this rule is relaxed a moderator will post a public notice explaining the limit and scope of the relaxation.

[vinci]

plead guilty or go to prison

[jerrymahoney]

3 hours ago, stevenl said:

But after having been assigned the first one the chance of being assigned the second one is 1 in 15.

From the linked NY Times story:

 

Still, the odds of an indictment being randomly assigned to Judge Cannon were low. There are 15 active Federal District Court judges in South Florida, along with 11 on senior status who are still assigned to hear cases but at a reduced workload‌. (Clerk) Ms. Noble did not immediately respond to an email seeking clarification of what happened.

[jerrymahoney]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

Let's see if the spanking she got from the Appeals Court panel will have had a chastening effect.

From the linked NY Times article:

 

Still, “out-of-left-field rulings could be coming here,” he said, adding, “When you have classified documents, there is abundant opportunities to slow this down, and if they’ve got a judge who is willing to go along with slowing this down, it becomes very hard to predict when this will go to trial.”

 

To be sure, there is no guarantee that Judge Cannon will resume the pattern she exhibited last fall. It remains to be seen whether she will respond to the reputational harm it brought her by using a second turn in the spotlight to rule in a more straightforward fashion.

[jerrymahoney]

3 hours ago, placeholder said:

Starting now, the chance is only 1 in 15. The past outcome has no bearing on the second outcome. If someone flips a coin once and it comes out heads, does that mean that the next time they flip it the odds are only 1 in 4 that it will come out heads? Now if before the coins were ever flipped, and they had to predict the outcomes, then the odds would have been 1 in 4 that heads would have come up twice in a row.

The chance that she got both Trump cases from the article:

 

Still, the odds of an indictment being randomly assigned to Judge Cannon were low. There are 15 active Federal District Court judges in South Florida, along with 11 on senior status who are still assigned to hear cases but at a reduced workload‌. Ms. Noble did not immediately respond to an email seeking clarification of what happened.

 

So she won 2 separate 1 in 15 random judge rump case assignments. The NYTimes article is questioning maybe they weren't so random.

 

Edited June 10, 2023 by jerrymahoney

[eisfeld]

A random sample of 2 is not statistically meaningful in any way to draw any conclusions even if the odds are not high.

 

It's a high profile case and if there'll be jail sentences then Trump will 100% guaranteed appeal this thing all way to the Supreme Court. All this judge can do is stall but she'll be walking on thin ice if it's not perfectly justified.

 

I don't expect it to be over very quickly.

[scottiejohn]

20 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

I don't expect it to be over very quickly.

Unfortunately you are perfectly correct.

If the Egomaniac had the real USA's interests at heart he would withdraw his nomination for president now but that will never happen with him!