Thailand's New Constitution Will Not Protect Lgbts Afterall

[Mid]

thailand's new constitution will not protect LGBTS afterall

July 4, 2007

By Doug Sanders

Due to a technicality, lesbians, gays and transgenders in Thailand will not be protected under the country's new constitution.

Updated on Jul 10, 2007

Lesbians, gays and transgenders in Thailand will not be protected under the country's new constitution as the constitutional drafting assembly said last week that the reopening of the gay issue had been done incorrectly. As such, the ruling renders the initial decision invalid. updated on Jul 10

fridae.com

first of many ???

info is still sketchy .

[Maestro]

What about left-handed people, etc.? Does a constitution really have to go into every little detail?

--

Maestro

[Jingthing]

What about left-handed people, etc.? Does a constitution really have to go into every little detail?

--

Maestro

No, left handed people don't need inclusion. They can marry other left handed people already. They don't face employment discrimination or issues of inheritance because their relationships aren't legally recognized. Actually, I don't know all the issues that Thai gays face, but I think I trust their leadership that they feel they do indeed need inclusion for equal rights in their constitution. There has been a Thai gay rights movement for decades. There is no left handed movement because they don't have a problem. Get it now????

My guess is that current government, for what it is worth, killed this because they correctly suspected that it would lead to court battles to legalize gay marriage in Thailand. If equal rights are granted in a constitution, lawyers could easily argue marriage is also a right of equal citizens.

Edited July 10, 2007 by Jingthing

[pop_corn]

sad thing, nothing to say.

[expatwannabe]

My guess is that current government, for what it is worth, killed this because they correctly suspected that it would lead to court battles to legalize gay marriage in Thailand. If equal rights are granted in a constitution, lawyers could easily argue marriage is also a right of equal citizens.

How nice that the Thai path of least resistance leads to ignoring loving relationships.

[farang prince]

My guess is that current government, for what it is worth, killed this because they correctly suspected that it would lead to court battles to legalize gay marriage in Thailand. If equal rights are granted in a constitution, lawyers could easily argue marriage is also a right of equal citizens.

How nice that the Thai path of least resistance leads to ignoring loving relationships.

The dirty little secret in Thailand, Expat, is that a lot of Thais would love to see gays and transgendered people go somewhere else. This move by the framers of the constitution is not surprising. And I don't expect gay marriages to ever be legitimized in Thailand -- at least not as long as the Buddhists and the military junta have anything to say about it.

Edited July 11, 2007 by farang prince

[PeaceBlondie]

Does this get back to the differene between tolerance and acceptance?

[Maestro]

...Get it now????...

Well, if it is same-sex marriage you are talking about, then I got it now.

I thought it was about the right to drive a taxi or drink beer, and such things.

--

Maestro

[farang prince]

Does this get back to the differene between tolerance and acceptance?

Always has been, don't you think PB?

[dukkha]

As homosexual persons there will always be a back lash...Gays, blacks, wimmin...equality is just a dream.

Only if my thai partner and myself could receive equal recognition...am not holding my breath as it were...scratch

a heterosexual and on many occaisons you will find a homophobe....but who can count the number of times I have

been wrong...respect to PB for using his words... Dukkha

[Maestro]

...lesbians, gays and transgenders in Thailand will not be protected under the country's new constitution.

I’ve just finished re-reading the Federal Constitution of the Swiss Confederation and there’s nothing in there about the protection of lesbians, gays and transgenders. What a backward country! This is all I could find:

Art. 8 Equality before the Law

1 All human beings are equal before the law.

2 Nobody shall suffer discrimination, particularly on grounds of origin, race, sex, age, language, social position, lifestyle, religious, philosophical or political convictions, or because of a corporal or mental disability.

3 Men and women have equal rights. Legislation shall ensure equality in law and in fact, particularly in family, education, and work. Men and women shall have the right to equal pay for work of equal value.

4 Legislation shall provide for measures to eliminate disadvantages affecting disabled people.

I wonder if somebody could copy and paste the section about protection of lesbians, gays and transgenders from the constitution of a more advanced country, for example Australia, USA, Italy. I would like to see how it is worded so that I can table a motion in the Swiss parliament for an analogous change in the Swiss constitution.

Incidentally, this is from Thailand’s last constitution:

Section 30. All persons are equal before the law and shall enjoy equal

protection under the law.

Men and women shall enjoy equal rights.

Unjust discrimination against a person on the grounds of the difference in origin, race, language, sex, age, physical or health condition, personal status, economic or social standing, religious belief, education or constitutionally political view, shall not be permitted.

Measures determined by the State in order to eliminate obstacle to or to promote persons’ ability to exercise their rights and liberties as other persons shall not be deemed as unjust discrimination under paragraph three.

The new constitution will be out before long, I believe, and then we can compare the above with the new text.

--

Maestro

[Jingthing]

Maestro,

the constitution of South Africa specifically grants equal rights to homosexuals. This was a more recent constitution born of an oppressed people. Drink in the symbolism. Now, civil gay marriages are legal in South Africa. One thing led to another, and correctly so.

Edited July 11, 2007 by Jingthing

[Maestro]

...South Africa specifically grants equal rights to homosexuals.. civil gay marriages are legal in South Africa. ...

Copy and paste, I wished for. Anyway, nothing against South Africa but I fear I could not impress the members of the Swiss parliament very much with the South African constitution, in which, incidentally, my search for the word “homosexual” produced no result, nor did a search for “gay marriage”

--

Maestro

[dukkha]

Just to get my 400th post....apparently such numbers have some significance for TV posters..so

will bang my own drum as many have done on TV...The Body Politik here, in LOM, dont really

condsider that such equality should exist, there are many issues in the referendum to follow and

I doubt whether it is going to include equality for gay partners, but then, I have been wrong a

million times, sorry PB for the continuos evocation of your signature, but I think you have such

a valid point in saying so...in all your humbilty...If Australia were to grant recognition to

civil unions of gay partners am heading for the nearest travel agent as my partner would

be entitled to 5/8 ths of my pension when I croak..this would leave him more than comfortable

for the rest of his life and at 30 versus 62 I imagine he has a few more years of life ahead of

him...........croak: die/pass away/slip off the twig/shuffle this mortal coil/blah blah blah....

I know some countries have achieved this but LOM aint one of them, nor in the distant

future do I see it as being a reality...they are still dealing with a lad whose Mercedez

Benz reeked havoc in Bangers...Jeez Louise, let's get the real deal Neal.... Dukkha

[Krub]

...South Africa specifically grants equal rights to homosexuals.. civil gay marriages are legal in South Africa. ...

Copy and paste, I wished for. Anyway, nothing against South Africa but I fear I could not impress the members of the Swiss parliament very much with the South African constitution, in which, incidentally, my search for the word “homosexual” produced no result, nor did a search for “gay marriage”

--

Maestro

Same sex unions are legal in Belgium and also in the Nethelands (i think) as well as in several USA states

[Jingthing]

...South Africa specifically grants equal rights to homosexuals.. civil gay marriages are legal in South Africa. ...

Copy and paste, I wished for. Anyway, nothing against South Africa but I fear I could not impress the members of the Swiss parliament very much with the South African constitution, in which, incidentally, my search for the word “homosexual” produced no result, nor did a search for “gay marriage”

--

Maestro

Get a grip!!! Spend a few seconds to read what I said and to properly search the very document you posted. I think you are just biased. I admit my bias. I am for equal rights.

(3) The state may not unfairly discriminate directly or indirectly against anyone on one or more grounds, including race, gender, sex, pregnancy, marital status, ethnic or social origin, colour, sexual orientation, age, disability, religion, conscience, belief, culture, language and birth.

I never said gay marriage rights was in their constitution. What I did say, and what I do believe, is that when a country gives equal rights specifically to gay people in their constitution (or an anti-discrimination clause as above), eventual legalization of same sex marriage is more or less inevitable. And that is exactly what happened in South Africa.

Edited July 12, 2007 by Jingthing

[PoliticallyCorrect]

thailand's new constitution will not protect LGBTS afterall

July 4, 2007

By Doug Sanders

Due to a technicality, lesbians, gays and transgenders in Thailand will not be protected under the country's new constitution.

Updated on Jul 10, 2007

Lesbians, gays and transgenders in Thailand will not be protected under the country's new constitution as the constitutional drafting assembly said last week that the reopening of the gay issue had been done incorrectly. As such, the ruling renders the initial decision invalid. updated on Jul 10

fridae.com

first of many ???

info is still sketchy .

Wow … is this a real bummer, or what?

Right now with no constitutional protection we can go to Babylon, enjoy a drink with same genders in gay pubs, dance together in DJ, cruise the shopping centers, off someone from a gay gogo bar and dress in drag in public? We can even change our gender by surgery. We can live with gay partners or pick up a trick and take them to a short time room or even take them to our own home. We can go to banks, restaurants, theatres, parks and the beach. We can enter or leave the country at will and we don't have to use separate, apartheid style buses or washrooms. Clearly this is not enough and WE DEMAND inclusion in the constitution because …. er……

[FranklyNoMore]

Are the Thai gays and lesbians out protesting?...I don\'t think so. Do they care?.... I don\'t think so. One sec i\'ll ask my lesbian receptionist....no couldn\'t give a rats ......, she\'s watching a Thai soap. and my b/f of 3.5 years doesnt care either.

[Maestro]

...don\'t ... don\'t ...i\'ll...couldn\'t...she\'s

Is it your computer or your Internet service provider that puts a backward slash in front of every apostrophe? Whichever, if you feel like making your posts look nicer you may have to write out those words: do not; I will; could not; she is. Awkward, I know.

--

Maestro

[farang prince]

Are the Thai gays and lesbians out protesting?...I don\'t think so. Do they care?.... I don\'t think so. One sec i\'ll ask my lesbian receptionist....no couldn\'t give a rats ......, she\'s watching a Thai soap. and my b/f of 3.5 years doesnt care either.

Great, then I guess we won't be hearing from you about this subject again will we?

[farang prince]

thailand's new constitution will not protect LGBTS afterall

July 4, 2007

By Doug Sanders

Due to a technicality, lesbians, gays and transgenders in Thailand will not be protected under the country's new constitution.

Updated on Jul 10, 2007

Lesbians, gays and transgenders in Thailand will not be protected under the country's new constitution as the constitutional drafting assembly said last week that the reopening of the gay issue had been done incorrectly. As such, the ruling renders the initial decision invalid. updated on Jul 10

fridae.com

first of many ???

info is still sketchy .

Wow … is this a real bummer, or what?

Right now with no constitutional protection we can go to Babylon, enjoy a drink with same genders in gay pubs, dance together in DJ, cruise the shopping centers, off someone from a gay gogo bar and dress in drag in public? We can even change our gender by surgery. We can live with gay partners or pick up a trick and take them to a short time room or even take them to our own home. We can go to banks, restaurants, theatres, parks and the beach. We can enter or leave the country at will and we don't have to use separate, apartheid style buses or washrooms. Clearly this is not enough and WE DEMAND inclusion in the constitution because …. er……

Wow, PoliticallyCorrect, I think we have a pretty good idea of most of your life experiences in LOS. Bummer.

Edited July 12, 2007 by farang prince

[FranklyNoMore]

Great, then I guess we wont be hearing from you about this subject again will we?

And why do you think that?

I was merely pointing out what a Thai lesbian and gay guy thought of their new constitution with regards to it. It appears that most gay Thais are not moved enough to do something about it. Maybe your ladyboy thinks differently or maybe you can ask the katoeys in Pattaya to stop hassling tourists and start hassling their so called government. That would be a good start for you as you seem concerned.

And Maestro your concern is touching.

Edited July 13, 2007 by FranklyNoMore

[farang prince]

Great, then I guess we wont be hearing from you about this subject again will we?

And why do you think that?

I was merely pointing out what a Thai lesbian and gay guy thought of their new constitution with regards to it. It appears that most gay Thais are not moved enough to do something about it. Maybe your ladyboy thinks differently or maybe you can ask the katoeys in Pattaya to stop hassling tourists and start hassling their so called government. That would be a good start for you as you seem concerned.

And Maestro your concern is touching.

I think Pattaya is more your level of expertise. Can't help you out there. Good luck.

[FranklyNoMore]

I think Pattaya is more your level of expertise. Can\'t help you out there. Good luck

I wasnt asking for your help. I was merely suggesting the idea that, as you seemed so concerned, you could be using your energy and connections in the trannie world to motivate the katoeys of Thailand, whether they be from Pattaya or Chiang Mai or any place in between, to take some form of action. After all most ladyboys are attention seekers who love the limelight. It would be a perfect opportunity for them to do something positive for the gays and lesbians of Thailand. Can you imagine if they all protested at Sanam Luang? I can see the headlines....Freaky Frock Friday!

The embarrassment to the country would be so great that the powers that be would surely have to amend the constitution in favor of Thailands gays.

Go for it!

[dukkha]

I think Pattaya is more your level of expertise. Can\'t help you out there. Good luck

I wasnt asking for your help. I was merely suggesting the idea that, as you seemed so concerned, you could be using your energy and connections in the trannie world to motivate the katoeys of Thailand, whether they be from Pattaya or Chiang Mai or any place in between, to take some form of action. After all most ladyboys are attention seekers who love the limelight. It would be a perfect opportunity for them to do something positive for the gays and lesbians of Thailand. Can you imagine if they all protested at Sanam Luang? I can see the headlines....Freaky Frock Friday!

The embarrassment to the country would be so great that the powers that be would surely have to amend the constitution in favor of Thailands gays.

Go for it! Dukkha

[thaicurious]

...South Africa specifically grants equal rights to homosexuals.. civil gay marriages are legal in South Africa. ...

Copy and paste, I wished for. Anyway, nothing against South Africa but I fear I could not impress the members of the Swiss parliament very much with the South African constitution, in which, incidentally, my search for the word "homosexual" produced no result, nor did a search for "gay marriage"

--

Maestro

thanx for the link maestro. i believe the phrase for which you meant to search is "sexual orientation."

Section 9 Equality

(1) Everyone is equal before the law and has the right to equal protection and benefit of the law.

(2) Equality includes the full and equal enjoyment of all rights and freedoms. To promote the achievement of equality, legislative and other measures designed to protect or advance persons, or categories of persons, disadvantaged by unfair discrimination may be taken.

(3) The state may not unfairly discriminate directly or indirectly against anyone on one or more grounds, including race, gender, sex, pregnancy, marital status, ethnic or social origin, colour, sexual orientation, age, disability, religion, conscience, belief, culture, language and birth.

ooops, sorry, i just saw that jingthing already posted from section 9.

Edited July 16, 2007 by thaicurious

[idle44mins]

"Gays to get equal status under new Thai charter" - Spice August 2007

Bangkok (Reuters) - Writers of Thailand's post-coup-constitution agreed on Friday to give gay, lesbian, transgender and transvestite groups official status in the charter to try to end discrimination.........................................

[noctiluca]

Not sure what the current situation is, but quite a few weeks ago, I saw a talk show on a Thai free TV channel, with some representatives of gay/tran groups discussing (for lack of a better word) third gender rights and the new constitution draft. It is very educational.

From that show, I get the feeling that it is not doom and gloom for GLBT movement. The wonderful people who pushed for GLBT rights to be included in the new constitution draft were actually satisfied, although I'm sure they would be much happier if it were not stuck with the technicality. They felt that they got surprisingly warm response from the CDA. It may take a bit more time, but I think, if the draft passes the referendum, eventually there could be an amendment that would include the GLBT rights. I may not agree with this attitude all the time, but there is a saying in Thai that there is always time and place for everything.

As a side note, apart from K. Natee Theerarojnapong, another guest, whose real name escapes me but think it's K. Nok, is very impressive and articulate. S/he presents her poise and intelligence well. I believe she is a leading representative from a transgender group. She is also one of the five singers of the famous and fabulous Venus Flytap. I wish her the best in her determination to fight for our "equal" rights.