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Reports of modern slavery double in UK care sector


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3 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

There is a solution to the huge problem we have here.

Britain should not import any more cheap foreigners to do the jobs that British people are now unwilling to do. The only foreigners who should be allowed into Britain to work, are foreigners in highly skilled jobs, like doctors, engineers, computer staff, etc.

Instead of importing foreigners on low wages, to compete against British workers, how about bumping up the wages for those born and raised in Britain ?  So, few people in Britain actually want to work in care homes ?  That's not surprising. So, don't import low wage foreigners. And instead, increase pay, that way, it will attract British workers to do the job.

Drafting in foreign migrant workers, all it's doing is forcing British people to compete against the cheap labour. And the ever increasing number of foreign workers in Britain is increasing the population, it's increasing rent and house prices. Not good for Britain.

And the bill for higher care costs will be paid for by?

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2 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

You're a well-meaning person, but I think you miss-interpret the situation and my view.

Unemployment is extremely low ?  There's still loads of people without a job, and lots who are doing part-time jobs. Can't get workers to work in care homes and farms ?  Well, bump up the wages, and we'ill see how many people come forward. And bump it up again, if not enough British workers come forward.

What's actually happening is, is importing cheaper foreigners to compete against British workers in un-skilled and semi-skilled jobs, jobs that are low-paid.

We know that there is poverty in Britain today. Rich people in Britain would rather draft in foreigners to keep wages low, rather than pay higher wages to those born in Britain. And yes, an ever increasing population benefits landlords (those with more than one house)  .   Again, richer people benefit from the poor.

I think sponge off the poor is a better description.

 

Made all the more easier by distracting you with ‘immigration and immigrants’.

 

 

Edited by Chomper Higgot
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24 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

The hourly rate to meet Tier2 visa requirements is higher than minimum wage. The staff from overseas are not cheap labour. 

 

The residential home where I work, and others I have worked at, could not operate without staff from overseas. All staff receive the same hourly rate at induction. £11 per hour if you have care certificate qualifications £10.90 if you are yet to complete it.

 

When staff are needed, advertisements are put out on all the major job sites. Generally speaking, 95% of applications are from overseas. 

Ditto the area where I am, plus signing up bonuses for people with care experience.

 

Care work is often described as ‘low skill’ I believe this to be a misnomer, it takes a special set of skills to able to deal with people facing the health mobility challenges and often end of life, plus of course the families of these people.

 

Not everyone can do this, I don’t think I could.

 

Added to which is the emotional labour that is a natural part of the job.

 

I suspect very few of the UK’s unemployed are cut out for this.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

And the bill for higher care costs will be paid for by?

 

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I think sponge off the poor is a better description.

 

Made all the more easier by distracting you with ‘immigration and immigrants’.

 

 

And who will pay the higher bill for increased care costs ?  I have no problems with bumping up tax bills (bearing in mind that increased tax bills won't hurt those in poverty that much, it's people with higher incomes who will be hit hardest by increased tax bills ) in Britain.

"Sponge off the poor is a better description" .  And sponging off the poor, exploitation of the poor in Britain, that's what we're seeing.

In my opinion, we are seeing imported cheaper labour to compete against the poor in Britain.
A simple example is this. Heathrow Airport, and hotels in Britain, need clean toilets and floors. And also, all them public toilets in Britain. Yes, foreign immigrant workers are willing to do such a job on a lower rate of pay. Almost nobody born in Britain wants to do such a job. Now, how about don't allow any foreigners to enter Britain and do this type of work. Only those born in Britain can apply.  This will force up the hourly pay, and we'ill see how many people apply.
And if not enough people apply, bump up the pay again. Remember, Heathrow Airport and Britain's hotels have got to have clean toilets and floors.

Give people a generous per hour pay, thirty hours per week, and a three month contract. And a loyalty bonus of one weeks pay for completing the three month contract. And they can apply for a new three month contract once the present contract expires, if they want to.
This, surely, will help Britain's poorest to get out of poverty ?

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3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

 

Not everyone can do this, I don’t think I could.

I suspect very few of the UK’s unemployed are cut out for this.

You're right, not many people in Britain are cut out for working in care homes.

How about this ?  Give generous grants and hourly pay to those born in Britain, to work as trainee care home staff. And slowly and gradually phase out and remove the large number of foreigners working in care homes. No need for a rapid two year expulsion plan, how about a five/seven year long-term plan to make most the care workers British.

And yes, those in care homes. Private and government care homes. Private care homes, that's for people who can afford it, they'ill have to increase their bills in order to pay the higher staffing costs. And government care homes, higher taxes to pay the higher staff wages. It's not going to be Britain's poor taking the pain from higher tax bills. Do it so that Britain's lowest income people will pay nominal or token tax.

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20 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

 

And who will pay the higher bill for increased care costs ?  I have no problems with bumping up tax bills (bearing in mind that increased tax bills won't hurt those in poverty that much, it's people with higher incomes who will be hit hardest by increased tax bills ) in Britain.

"Sponge off the poor is a better description" .  And sponging off the poor, exploitation of the poor in Britain, that's what we're seeing.

In my opinion, we are seeing imported cheaper labour to compete against the poor in Britain.
A simple example is this. Heathrow Airport, and hotels in Britain, need clean toilets and floors. And also, all them public toilets in Britain. Yes, foreign immigrant workers are willing to do such a job on a lower rate of pay. Almost nobody born in Britain wants to do such a job. Now, how about don't allow any foreigners to enter Britain and do this type of work. Only those born in Britain can apply.  This will force up the hourly pay, and we'ill see how many people apply.
And if not enough people apply, bump up the pay again. Remember, Heathrow Airport and Britain's hotels have got to have clean toilets and floors.

Give people a generous per hour pay, thirty hours per week, and a three month contract. And a loyalty bonus of one weeks pay for completing the three month contract. And they can apply for a new three month contract once the present contract expires, if they want to.
This, surely, will help Britain's poorest to get out of poverty ?

Money can't cure laziness.

 

People get more benefits than they would earn eith your plan.

 

Cut benefits, make it more difficult to live off benefits long term. Use the money saved to offer higher minimum wage to get people to work.

 

No need to raise taxes. Win win.

 

But wait, you'll still get people who think cleaning and care jobs are below them.

 

Once again, foreign staff working in care are not cheap labour. There are salary requirements attached to their visas. Hourly rate currently higher than minimum was.

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22 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

You're right, not many people in Britain are cut out for working in care homes.

How about this ?  Give generous grants and hourly pay to those born in Britain, to work as trainee care home staff. And slowly and gradually phase out and remove the large number of foreigners working in care homes. No need for a rapid two year expulsion plan, how about a five/seven year long-term plan to make most the care workers British.

And yes, those in care homes. Private and government care homes. Private care homes, that's for people who can afford it, they'ill have to increase their bills in order to pay the higher staffing costs. And government care homes, higher taxes to pay the higher staff wages. It's not going to be Britain's poor taking the pain from higher tax bills. Do it so that Britain's lowest income people will pay nominal or token tax.

Do you believe Britain’s poor have enough access to care?

 

How would driving up care costs impact the poor in Britain who need care?

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1 hour ago, youreavinalaff said:

Money can't cure laziness.

 

People get more benefits than they would earn eith your plan.

 

Cut benefits, make it more difficult to live off benefits long term. Use the money saved to offer higher minimum wage to get people to work.

 

No need to raise taxes. Win win.

 

But wait, you'll still get people who think cleaning and care jobs are below them.

 

Once again, foreign staff working in care are not cheap labour. There are salary requirements attached to their visas. Hourly rate currently higher than minimum was.

There’s no need for these ‘benefits myths’, they have no part in the subject ‘Slavery’ discussion.
 

 

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6 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

There’s no need for these ‘benefits myths’, they have no part in the subject ‘Slavery’ discussion.
 

 

I was replying to another poster. My reply was specific to his ideas. Just as yours was here: 

 

"Do you believe Britain’s poor have enough access to care?

 

How would driving up care costs impact the poor in Britain who need care?"

 

Edited by youreavinalaff
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On 7/28/2023 at 10:33 AM, vinny41 said:

There are no government care homes what you have is private care homes that either accept local council funded residents or self funding residents

costs for a residential care home ranges from £900-1600 per week and nursing residential homes range from £1500-2500 per week depending on location

And having a system that is made up of private care homes is a big part of the problem.
Yes, a long-term plan is needed, have a large number of state-owned care homes.

Fees of £900-1600 per week means that vast numbers of people can simply not afford it.

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18 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Do you believe Britain’s poor have enough access to care?

 

How would driving up care costs impact the poor in Britain who need care?

 

17 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

I was replying to another poster. My reply was specific to his ideas. Just as yours was here: 

 

"Do you believe Britain’s poor have enough access to care?

 

How would driving up care costs impact the poor in Britain who need care?"

 

Do I believe Britain's poor have enough access ?  No, I don't think so.
How would driving up care costs impact the poor ?

Let's answer that. Increase taxes, and do it so the increase is mainly on those with higher incomes. Government revenue will finance state-run care homes, part of a long-term plan. The prices quoted on this forum mean that most people will not be able to afford care.
Driving up costs ?  People in the higher income bracketts will be financing the increased cost with their higher tax bills.

The poorest 20% in Britain do actually suffer from poverty. How do we close the wealth gap in Britain ?  Take money from the richest 20% and re-distribute it to all in society. Yes, the poorest 20% will benefit the most. And if the richest 20% or 10% want to go private, well, let them. Private health care, private sector education, private anything, let them do it if they can afford it.

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20 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Money can't cure laziness.

 

People get more benefits than they would earn eith your plan.

 

Cut benefits, make it more difficult to live off benefits long term. Use the money saved to offer higher minimum wage to get people to work.

 

No need to raise taxes. Win win.

 

But wait, you'll still get people who think cleaning and care jobs are below them.

 

Once again, foreign staff working in care are not cheap labour. There are salary requirements attached to their visas. Hourly rate currently higher than minimum was.

A whole load of people are living on benefits and are poor. Some of them (maybe, most) would much rather work and have more money in their pockets.

No need to raise taxes ?  The wealth gap between rich and poor in Britain is surprisingly big, it's bigger today than some previous times. Raising taxes, poorer people will pay token or very little tax, richer people will see their tax bills go up. This is the way to narrow the wealth gap in Britain.

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1 hour ago, tonbridgebrit said:

 

Do I believe Britain's poor have enough access ?  No, I don't think so.
How would driving up care costs impact the poor ?

Let's answer that. Increase taxes, and do it so the increase is mainly on those with higher incomes. Government revenue will finance state-run care homes, part of a long-term plan. The prices quoted on this forum mean that most people will not be able to afford care.
Driving up costs ?  People in the higher income bracketts will be financing the increased cost with their higher tax bills.

The poorest 20% in Britain do actually suffer from poverty. How do we close the wealth gap in Britain ?  Take money from the richest 20% and re-distribute it to all in society. Yes, the poorest 20% will benefit the most. And if the richest 20% or 10% want to go private, well, let them. Private health care, private sector education, private anything, let them do it if they can afford it.

The Government tried to bring in additional support to pay for Health and Social Care support by raising National Insurance  1.25% but no-one wanted to pay the increase

https://www.unbiased.co.uk/news/financial-advice/national-insurance-threshold-changes-how-they-will-affect-you

Taxing the richest 20% wouldn't work as they would simply go elsewhere leaving everyone else to pick up the bill

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1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

The Government tried to bring in additional support to pay for Health and Social Care support by raising National Insurance  1.25% but no-one wanted to pay the increase

https://www.unbiased.co.uk/news/financial-advice/national-insurance-threshold-changes-how-they-will-affect-you

Taxing the richest 20% wouldn't work as they would simply go elsewhere leaving everyone else to pick up the bill

Is there any evidence that the rich leave on any significant numbers when taxes are raised (ie leave in sufficient numbers that the tax revenue goes down with an increase in tax rates on the rich)?

 

And why only tax rich individuals, closing loopholes to reduce corporate tax avoidance would also increase tax revenues.


The gaping hole left in UK import duties by the failure to implement import controls between the EU and UK is also bleeding revenue from the treasury.

 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Is there any evidence that the rich leave on any significant numbers when taxes are raised (ie leave in sufficient numbers that the tax revenue goes down with an increase in tax rates on the rich)?

 

And why only tax rich individuals, closing loopholes to reduce corporate tax avoidance would also increase tax revenues.


The gaping hole left in UK import duties by the failure to implement import controls between the EU and UK is also bleeding revenue from the treasury.

 

 

 

Super-rich prepare to leave UK 'within minutes' if Labour wins election

Wealthy see potential taxes imposed by Jeremy Corbyn as bigger threat than Brexit

The super-rich are preparing to immediately leave the UK if Jeremy Corbyn becomes prime minister, fearing they will lose billions of pounds if the Labour leader does “go after” the wealthy elite with new taxes, possible capital controls and a clampdown on private schools.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/nov/02/super-rich-leave-uk-labour-election-win-jeremy-corbyn-wealth-taxes

North Sea oil and gas losing investments - report

Industry body Offshore Energies UK estimates that 90% of offshore firms are cutting spending worth billions.

It says a continued lack of investment would see production fall by 80% by 2030, increasing reliance on imports.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-65093274

I don't know anyone that is happy or willing to pay more tax than they are required to do

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3 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

A whole load of people are living on benefits and are poor. Some of them (maybe, most) would much rather work and have more money in their pockets.

No need to raise taxes ?  The wealth gap between rich and poor in Britain is surprisingly big, it's bigger today than some previous times. Raising taxes, poorer people will pay token or very little tax, richer people will see their tax bills go up. This is the way to narrow the wealth gap in Britain.

That's already what is happening.

 

1m unemployed right now. I can't remember the last time it was less than that.

 

There are many, close to the 1m unemployed, that don't want to work.

Edited by youreavinalaff
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3 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

 

Do I believe Britain's poor have enough access ?  No, I don't think so.
How would driving up care costs impact the poor ?

Let's answer that. Increase taxes, and do it so the increase is mainly on those with higher incomes. Government revenue will finance state-run care homes, part of a long-term plan. The prices quoted on this forum mean that most people will not be able to afford care.
Driving up costs ?  People in the higher income bracketts will be financing the increased cost with their higher tax bills.

The poorest 20% in Britain do actually suffer from poverty. How do we close the wealth gap in Britain ?  Take money from the richest 20% and re-distribute it to all in society. Yes, the poorest 20% will benefit the most. And if the richest 20% or 10% want to go private, well, let them. Private health care, private sector education, private anything, let them do it if they can afford it.

You clearly have no idea how social care is funded.

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20 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

That's already what is happening.

 

1m unemployed right now. I can't remember the last time it was less than that.

 

There are many, close to the 1m unemployed, that don't want to work.

Do you have information to back up your assertion that close to 1m unemployed don’t want to work?

 

 


 

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34 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Super-rich prepare to leave UK 'within minutes' if Labour wins election

Wealthy see potential taxes imposed by Jeremy Corbyn as bigger threat than Brexit

The super-rich are preparing to immediately leave the UK if Jeremy Corbyn becomes prime minister, fearing they will lose billions of pounds if the Labour leader does “go after” the wealthy elite with new taxes, possible capital controls and a clampdown on private schools.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/nov/02/super-rich-leave-uk-labour-election-win-jeremy-corbyn-wealth-taxes

North Sea oil and gas losing investments - report

Industry body Offshore Energies UK estimates that 90% of offshore firms are cutting spending worth billions.

It says a continued lack of investment would see production fall by 80% by 2030, increasing reliance on imports.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-65093274

I don't know anyone that is happy or willing to pay more tax than they are required to do

And yet the rich haven’t been leaving despite the current tax burden.

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4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

And yet the rich haven’t been leaving despite the current tax burden.

Everyone accepts that you have to pay some tax but when a politician decides that they are going to milk you to fund their spending programmes that when people will leave

Jeremy Corbyn’s £48B manifesto plan

Labour leader wants to raise taxes for higher earners to fund education and re-nationalization plans.

https://www.politico.eu/article/jeremy-corbyns-48bn-manifesto-plan/

I have seen thousands of posts on this forum with people complaining about a B500 tax loaded onto international airfares

and  thousands of posts about how unfair that foreigners are expected to pay more at National Parks in Thailand

With Both National Parks and international airfares people have a choice don't go to the parks or for international airfares exit the country via a land border and catch a flight in a different country

 

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On 7/28/2023 at 11:23 AM, tonbridgebrit said:

You're right, not many people in Britain are cut out for working in care homes.

How about this ?  Give generous grants and hourly pay to those born in Britain, to work as trainee care home staff. And slowly and gradually phase out and remove the large number of foreigners working in care homes. No need for a rapid two year expulsion plan, how about a five/seven year long-term plan to make most the care workers British.

And yes, those in care homes. Private and government care homes. Private care homes, that's for people who can afford it, they'ill have to increase their bills in order to pay the higher staffing costs. And government care homes, higher taxes to pay the higher staff wages. It's not going to be Britain's poor taking the pain from higher tax bills. Do it so that Britain's lowest income people will pay nominal or token tax.

If more UK residents work in care homes, it may well be that less will work in other activities. Unemployment rate in UK has always been low, and is still currently around 4%, despite the post-pandemic consequences, Brexit, war in Ukraine, etc...

 

The main problem of the UK economy is not unemployment, it's low growth (and temporarily: inflation).

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3 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

You clearly have no idea how social care is funded.

I'm trying to say that the present system is unworkable. Carry on drafting in a large number of foreign workers is not sustainable. And if large numbers of foreigners are going to be brought in, well, Britain needs a lot more houses to be built. House prices are pretty expensive in Britain, and rent is very expensive. This is, off-course, due to the chronic shortage in Britain.

Hence, social care (and other parts of the economy) and it's funding needs to be massively changed. If we carry on seeing the existing way of funding social care, and continue with what's going on with the rest of the economy, well, it's not going to be good for Britain.

"You clearly have no idea how social care is funded. "  I think you should look at your views regarding the poor in Britain, the un-employed and under-employed, and have a better idea of what's actually happening.
 

Edited by tonbridgebrit
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4 minutes ago, tonbridgebrit said:

I'm trying to say that the present system is unworkable. Carry on drafting in a large number of foreign workers is not sustainable. And if large numbers of foreigners are going to be brought in, well, Britain needs a lot more houses to be built. House prices are pretty expensive in Britain, and rent is very expensive. This is, off-course, due to the chronic shortage in Britain.

Hence, social care (and other parts of the economy) and it's funding needs to be massively changed. If we carry on seeing the existing way of funding social care, and continue with what's going on with the rest of the economy, well, it's not going to be good for Britain.

"You clearly have no idea how social care is funded. "  I think you should look at your views regarding the poor in Britain, the un-employed and under-employed, and have a better idea of what's actually happening.
 

When workers come to UK on Tier2 visas, employers have to provide accommodation so mo problems there. If no housing is available, mo overseas workers 

 

Two questions.

 

How do you think social care is funded?

 

How would you define "rich"?

Edited by youreavinalaff
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1 hour ago, candide said:

If more UK residents work in care homes, it may well be that less will work in other activities. Unemployment rate in UK has always been low, and is still currently around 4%, despite the post-pandemic consequences, Brexit, war in Ukraine, etc...

 

The main problem of the UK economy is not unemployment, it's low growth (and temporarily: inflation).

In my opinion, growth is important, but reducing poverty in Britain is just as important, or even more important.

Yes, bump up interest rates to reduce inflation to about 2%.  Growth ?  So that there will be more wealth in Britain ?  Yes. 
But greater wealth, with only a tiny bit of improvement for the poorest 20% is, in my opinion, not a good thing. Closing the big gap between rich and poor should be a government aim.

And housing in Britain is absurd. I'm getting off-topic, but I'ill say it.

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15 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

When workers come to UK on Tier2 visas, employers have to provide accommodation so mo problems there. If no housing is available, mo overseas workers 

 

Two questions.

 

How do you think social care is funded?

 

How would you define "rich"?

How is social care funded ?  There's no need to go into detail about the existing system.  A gradual phasing in of a new long-term system is needed.  A state-funded system, available for everybody, funded by tax-payers money.

Who are the 'rich' ?  People in the top 20% in terms of wealth ownership, and annual income.

Yes, about housing the new migrant workers.  Employers, in this case, must find accomadation for the overseas workers. So, accomadation is rented out or purchased. Overseas workers are basically competing with British people to rent or purchase places to live. There are simply not enough houses in Britain to house the existing population. And yet, we're still seeing new people entering Britain.

Either, the government builds new housing, or get private developers to build more housing. Number of new houses being built in Britain is very small. Or, massively reduce the new numbers of people entering Britain.
We've seen a huge increase in house prices during the last decade, or more. I think, it's mainly driven by an increasing population, and with very few new houses being built. It's landlords who are very happy. Price of the house rockets, and rake in generous rent money. Let's try to hit landlords with new rules and new taxes, who on earth feels sorry for landlords ?
We feel sorry for tenants, yes, but not landlords.

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59 minutes ago, tonbridgebrit said:

How is social care funded ?  There's no need to go into detail about the existing system.  A gradual phasing in of a new long-term system is needed.  A state-funded system, available for everybody, funded by tax-payers money.

Who are the 'rich' ?  People in the top 20% in terms of wealth ownership, and annual income.

Yes, about housing the new migrant workers.  Employers, in this case, must find accomadation for the overseas workers. So, accomadation is rented out or purchased. Overseas workers are basically competing with British people to rent or purchase places to live. There are simply not enough houses in Britain to house the existing population. And yet, we're still seeing new people entering Britain.

Either, the government builds new housing, or get private developers to build more housing. Number of new houses being built in Britain is very small. Or, massively reduce the new numbers of people entering Britain.
We've seen a huge increase in house prices during the last decade, or more. I think, it's mainly driven by an increasing population, and with very few new houses being built. It's landlords who are very happy. Price of the house rockets, and rake in generous rent money. Let's try to hit landlords with new rules and new taxes, who on earth feels sorry for landlords ?
We feel sorry for tenants, yes, but not landlords.

You've just spent about £1 trillion.

 

Where is the money coming from?

 

At what level of government is social care funded?

 

How much salary and wealth do you think someone in the top 20% has?

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