Reports of modern slavery double in UK care sector

[youreavinalaff]

7 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

There is absolutely no indication in the report of visa status being anything to do with the example cases given or human trafficking, in fact the report makes it clear the woman in the example example case had a visa.

 

But off you go, banging on about ‘sounds like people trafficking’ and fake visas.

 

Predictable!

 

 

 

Using my experience to suggest all is not as it seems.

 

Not " banging on".

 

If you'd like to show a link to the story that categorically states everything, other than the care agency, is legit I will hold my hands up and apologise.

 

I know the procedures for a Tier2 visa and also what it takes to bring Mum and 3 kids with regards to cost, criteria and timescale. 

 

Things don't add up in the case in question.

 

We have been discussing a case. Not cases.

 

 

Edited July 25, 2023 by youreavinalaff

[Chomper Higgot]

17 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Why underline words when the underline has no meaning 

You underline the words care sector and state you have provided a link and then no link is provided

 

To point out the salient bit you are failing to address.

[Chomper Higgot]

17 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

 

<snip>

If you'd like to show a link to the story that categorically states everything, other than the care agency, is legit I will hold my hands up and apologise.

 

No need to apologize, I never made any such claim.

[Chomper Higgot]

21 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

 

We have been discussing a case. Not cases.

 

 

The OP refers to ‘the UK care sector’ and the included article refers to at least 109 cases.

 

 

Edited July 25, 2023 by Chomper Higgot

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So immigrants are not providing care in the UK care homes?

 

“Reports of modern slavery double in UK care sector”

 

Care sector

 

Clearly the single case discussed in the report is not the only case and very clearly the fact she works in one are of the care sector does not preclude all the rest of the care sector, refer Nottingham University report I linked above.

 

Clearly you are unable or unwilling to provide a link that you refer to No problems

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, vinny41 said:

Clearly you are unable or unwilling to provide a link that you refer to No problems

A link to what, I’ve referred you to the OP, you’ll find it at the top of the thread.

[youreavinalaff]

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The OP refers to ‘the UK care sector’ and the included article refers to at least 109 cases.

 

 

I have constantly been referring to the example case given. That of Terri.

 

 

Edited July 25, 2023 by youreavinalaff

[vinny41]

10 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I don’t hear any Brits complaining after leaving their parents in care homes that are reliant on immigrants to do the caring.

 

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So immigrants are not providing care in the UK care homes?

 

“Reports of modern slavery double in UK care sector”

 

Care sector

 

Clearly the single case discussed in the report is not the only case and very clearly the fact she works in one are of the care sector does not preclude all the rest of the care sector, refer Nottingham University report I linked above.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

A link to what, I’ve referred you to the OP, you’ll find it at the top of the thread.

You keep referring to a "Nottingham University report I linked above". but in your posts but don't provide a link as stated

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

I have constantly been referring to the example case given. That of Terri.

 

 

That’s alright, she’s got a visa.

 

No evidence of it being one of the ‘fake visas’ you referred to, and zero evidence of the ‘human trafficking’ you threw into the discussion.

 

Oh and the thread is the whole OP not the single bit you wish to misrepresent.

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

 

 

You keep referring to a "Nottingham University report I linked above". but in your posts but don't provide a link as stated

Forgive me Vinny, I assumed you could navigate through the thread:

 

4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

This makes interesting reading, 2019 so not something that suddenly shows up without any prior warnings:

 

https://www.nationalcareforum.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/MSEU-Briefing_Modern-slavery-risk-in-adult-social-care_FINAL.pdf

 

[vinny41]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Forgive me Vinny, I assumed you could navigate through the thread:

 

 

Wasn't aware that anyone reading this thread was expected to be a mind reader and when you post "Nottingham University report I linked above" what you meant was refer to another post i made earlier 

[youreavinalaff]

8 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

That’s alright, she’s got a visa.

 

No evidence of it being one of the ‘fake visas’ you referred to, and zero evidence of the ‘human trafficking’ you threw into the discussion.

 

Oh and the thread is the whole OP not the single bit you wish to misrepresent.

I mentioned fake visas as it happens.

 

As an aside, even if she does have a correct visa, if she was brought to UK with the promise of a job with hours and salary correct to the visa sponsorship, but subsequently over worked and underpaid to the point it is deemed modern day slavery she is also a victim of human trafficking.

Edited July 25, 2023 by youreavinalaff

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Wasn't aware that anyone reading this thread was expected to be a mind reader and when you post "Nottingham University report I linked above" what you meant was refer to another post i made earlier 

Forgive me, I posted the link earlier in the thread, and have reposted above.

 

I have no expectation of anyone being a mind reader but I do expect, perhaps futilely so, that people engaged in a discussion would follow the discussion.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

I mentioned fake visas as it happens.

 

As an aside, even if she does have a correct visa, if she was brought to UK with the promise of a job with hours and salary correct to the visa sponsorship, but subsequently over worked and underpaid to the point it is deemed modern day slavery she is also a victim of human trafficking.

I’m not sure that is the definition of human trafficking.

 

Perhaps best not to assert human trafficking without evidence and facts. 

 

[youreavinalaff]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I’m not sure that is the definition of human trafficking.

 

Yes, it is.

 

https://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/human-trafficking/human-trafficking.html

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, youreavinalaff said:

Yes, it is.

 

https://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/human-trafficking/human-trafficking.html

You’d need a very loose interpretation of that to apply it to this example given.

 

Even the individual and the organization helping her aren’t claiming she was trafficked.

 

There is no suggestion anywhere in the OP or the linked article that she and her family have been trafficked.

That was a contribution from your very own imagination.

 

[youreavinalaff]

6 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You’d need a very loose interpretation of that to apply it to this example given.

 

Even the individual and the organization helping her aren’t claiming she was trafficked.

 

There is no suggestion anywhere in the OP or the linked article that she and her family have been trafficked.

That was a contribution from your very own imagination.

 

I believe @placeholder mentioned a connection with a powerful person in the victim's home country.

 

A link to the report: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66260064

 

A quote from the link :

 

"Terri complained to the care company but it threatened to stop her work and cancel her visa.

She says other carers she got to know also warned her that the firm's owner had political links in her home country.

"That makes him very dangerous where we come from - you don't want to go against someone like that," she told us."

 

 

Edited July 25, 2023 by youreavinalaff

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

I believe @placeholder mentioned a connection with a powerful person in the victim's home country.

 

A link to the report: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66260064

 

A quote from the link :

 

"Terri complained to the care company but it threatened to stop her work and cancel her visa.

She says other carers she got to know also warned her that the firm's owner had political links in her home country.

"That makes him very dangerous where we come from - you don't want to go against someone like that," she told us."

 

 

I’m not at all surprised. 
 

We know from past reports of migrant worker abuse that powerful people are often in the background.

 

It doesn’t in and of itself make the migrant a ‘trafficked person’.

 

Oh, and there’s that visa again.

[youreavinalaff]

10 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I’m not at all surprised. 
 

We know from past reports of migrant worker abuse that powerful people are often in the background.

 

It doesn’t in and of itself make the migrant a ‘trafficked person’.

 

Oh, and there’s that visa again.

Trafficked humans often have visas. 

 

I believe you are getting confused between human trafficking and migrant smuggling. An easy mistake to make.

Edited July 25, 2023 by youreavinalaff

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Trafficked humans often have visas. 

 

I believe you are getting confused between human trafficking and migrant smuggling. An easy mistake to make.

Please point out where in the OP or the linked article the statement is made that the example individual was trafficked?

 

[youreavinalaff]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Please point out where in the OP or the linked article the statement is made that the example individual was trafficked?

 

I believe the case in the report  is under investigation.  

 

In my post I was referring to the bigger picture. Humans that have been trafficked often have visas.

 

 

Edited July 25, 2023 by youreavinalaff

[JonnyF]

14 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

A woman immigrant coming to the UK to take care of her own family and working to take care of people in the UK who’s own family can’t or won’t take care of them themselves is a long way off my idea of being a problem.

Presumably you're not living in the UK paying obscene amounts of tax while being unable to find suitable housing or schools for your kids.

 

Pontificating on forums is a long way off my idea of reality.

[Chomper Higgot]

5 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Presumably you're not living in the UK paying obscene amounts of tax while being unable to find suitable housing or schools for your kids.

 

Pontificating on forums is a long way off my idea of reality.

You presume a lot of things, almost always entirely incorrectly.

 

Try fact based discussions and avoiding personal attacks, they might together help you stay on topic.

[tonbridgebrit]

There is a solution to the huge problem we have here.

Britain should not import any more cheap foreigners to do the jobs that British people are now unwilling to do. The only foreigners who should be allowed into Britain to work, are foreigners in highly skilled jobs, like doctors, engineers, computer staff, etc.

Instead of importing foreigners on low wages, to compete against British workers, how about bumping up the wages for those born and raised in Britain ?  So, few people in Britain actually want to work in care homes ?  That's not surprising. So, don't import low wage foreigners. And instead, increase pay, that way, it will attract British workers to do the job.

Drafting in foreign migrant workers, all it's doing is forcing British people to compete against the cheap labour. And the ever increasing number of foreign workers in Britain is increasing the population, it's increasing rent and house prices. Not good for Britain.

Edited July 28, 2023 by tonbridgebrit

[tonbridgebrit]

On 7/25/2023 at 10:54 AM, JonnyF said:

Exactly. Solve one problem, create multiple other problems.

 

No wonder there's a housing crisis and a shortage of school places. 

 

I'm glad I got out when I did.

 

On the plus side, my rental properties are easy to fill, just have to separate the wheat from the chaff at the application stage.

"On the plus side, my rental properties are easy to fill, just have to separate the wheat from the chaff at the application stage."

See, people like you are part of the problem. It's not as if you actually want to see more foreigners in Britain. You're willing to cheer on the present situation, where more and more foreigners are allowed in. This is because you gain from increased rent.

[JayClay]

5 minutes ago, tonbridgebrit said:

Britain should not import any more cheap foreigners to do the jobs that British people are now unwilling to do. The only foreigners who should be allowed into Britain to work, are foreigners in highly skilled jobs, like doctors, engineers, computer staff, etc

You do know that what you're proposing is pretty much exactly what the current situation is, and is what has caused all this mess, don't you?

 

The only people for whom it is appealing to live in the UK, and hence the only jobs getting filled by foreign workers are high paid jobs. Fruit pickers and care workers aren't going to bother with visas to come and work for low wages in the UK when they can travel and work anywhere in Europe visa free.

 

The result? None of the low paying jobs are being filled. Unemployment is extremely low in the UK and they can't get the workers they need fill positions in vital sectors. All the while many of the higher-paid jobs are going to immigrant workers. 

 

Your suggested policy is literally failing in front of your own eyes, yet you want to somehow double down on it??

[tonbridgebrit]

13 minutes ago, JayClay said:

You do know that what you're proposing is pretty much exactly what the current situation is, and is what has caused all this mess, don't you?

 

The only people for whom it is appealing to live in the UK, and hence the only jobs getting filled by foreign workers are high paid jobs. Fruit pickers and care workers aren't going to bother with visas to come and work for low wages in the UK when they can travel and work anywhere in Europe visa free.

 

The result? None of the low paying jobs are being filled. Unemployment is extremely low in the UK and they can't get the workers they need fill positions in vital sectors. All the while many of the higher-paid jobs are going to immigrant workers. 

 

Your suggested policy is literally failing in front of your own eyes, yet you want to somehow double down on it??

You're a well-meaning person, but I think you miss-interpret the situation and my view.

Unemployment is extremely low ?  There's still loads of people without a job, and lots who are doing part-time jobs. Can't get workers to work in care homes and farms ?  Well, bump up the wages, and we'ill see how many people come forward. And bump it up again, if not enough British workers come forward.

What's actually happening is, is importing cheaper foreigners to compete against British workers in un-skilled and semi-skilled jobs, jobs that are low-paid.

We know that there is poverty in Britain today. Rich people in Britain would rather draft in foreigners to keep wages low, rather than pay higher wages to those born in Britain. And yes, an ever increasing population benefits landlords (those with more than one house)  .   Again, richer people benefit from the poor.

[JayClay]

8 minutes ago, tonbridgebrit said:

What's actually happening is, is importing cheaper foreigners to compete against British workers in un-skilled and semi-skilled jobs, jobs that are low-paid

No that is not what is happening.

[youreavinalaff]

2 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

There is a solution to the huge problem we have here.

Britain should not import any more cheap foreigners to do the jobs that British people are now unwilling to do. The only foreigners who should be allowed into Britain to work, are foreigners in highly skilled jobs, like doctors, engineers, computer staff, etc.

Instead of importing foreigners on low wages, to compete against British workers, how about bumping up the wages for those born and raised in Britain ?  So, few people in Britain actually want to work in care homes ?  That's not surprising. So, don't import low wage foreigners. And instead, increase pay, that way, it will attract British workers to do the job.

Drafting in foreign migrant workers, all it's doing is forcing British people to compete against the cheap labour. And the ever increasing number of foreign workers in Britain is increasing the population, it's increasing rent and house prices. Not good for Britain.

The hourly rate to meet Tier2 visa requirements is higher than minimum wage. The staff from overseas are not cheap labour. 

 

The residential home where I work, and others I have worked at, could not operate without staff from overseas. All staff receive the same hourly rate at induction. £11 per hour if you have care certificate qualifications £10.90 if you are yet to complete it.

 

When staff are needed, advertisements are put out on all the major job sites. Generally speaking, 95% of applications are from overseas. 

[youreavinalaff]

2 hours ago, JayClay said:

care workers aren't going to bother with visas to come and work for low wages in the UK when they can travel and work anywhere in Europe visa free.

Caribbean, Indian, Sri Lankan, Nepalese, Thai, Filipino, Colombian?

 

Those nationalities make up 90% of care staff where I work. They are very happy with the salaries they receive.