1 minute ago, brianthainess said:

Unless you got free lessons I'd say whatever institution you paid to teach you, they obviously did a very bad job if no Thai understand you. 

You are either trolling or have a comprehension problem. 

We are discussing how some Thais refuse to grasp that one is speaking Thai, even if it is perfect. 

Maybe put a disclosure at the beginning….  Don’t commit with something a jackass might write. 
 

It’s good the young man showing his efforts to speak English…. Commendable…I

Neeranam does have a point, even if his post came across as unappreciative of the young man's efforts to practice his English. The gas station attendant's English was barely beyond rudimentary and the Tik Tok's Thai appeared to be upper intermediate if not advanced. There's sort of an unwritten rule that you defer to whichever language both people have the highest proficiency in.

 

There are some Thais who barrel ahead in broken English or spend long moments trying to recall vocabulary blithely ignoring evidence that your command of Thai is vastly superior to their English. Worse still, are Thais who instantaneously try to bully you and act dismissively about your Thai and coerce you into speaking English with them by simply refusing to acknowledge your Thai skills or make any effort to comprehend your Thai.

 

Foreigners who speak Thai well are aware of this dynamic. They are confident about their Thai language skills because they have had countless successful interactions with Thais in Thai. They know when a person is simply refusing to speak Thai with them, versus having a genuine difficulty comprehending non-native Thai. As annoying as this can sometimes be, as Neeraman said, I do agree that foreigners should be reasonably tolerant of this behavior, especially around young people who are just trying to develop their English skills.

Some of these “I speak fluent Thai and find these guys practising their English annoying “  have short memories. 
Think about all the market traders giving you a blank look when you tried to buy a kilo of oranges or the waitresses confused when you tried to order a Jack and Coke or the songtaew driver when you asked if he is going to Cicada Market etc, etc ,

Give the kid a break.

4 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

Neeranam does have a point, even if his post came across as unappreciative of the young man's efforts to practice his English. The gas station attendant's English was barely beyond rudimentary and the Tik Tok's Thai appeared to be upper intermediate if not advanced. There's sort of an unwritten rule that you defer to whichever language both people have the highest proficiency in.

 

There are some Thais who barrel ahead in broken English or spend long moments trying to recall vocabulary blithely ignoring evidence that your command of Thai is vastly superior to their English. Worse still, are Thais who instantaneously try to bully you and act dismissively about your Thai and coerce you into speaking English with them by simply refusing to acknowledge your Thai skills or make any effort to comprehend your Thai.

 

Foreigners who speak Thai well are aware of this dynamic. They are confident about their Thai language skills because they have had countless successful interactions with Thais in Thai. They know when a person is simply refusing to speak Thai with them, versus having a genuine difficulty comprehending non-native Thai. As annoying as this can sometimes be, as Neeraman said, I do agree that foreigners should be reasonably tolerant of this behavior, especially around young people who are just trying to develop their English skills.

I think you are being generous to the tik-tok man describing his Thai ability to be upper immediate or advanced. Also think you are underestimating the gas attendant's English. What really happened is that both spoke a foreign language to each other. I don't think the gap in ability was that great.

13 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

You are either trolling or have a comprehension problem. 

We are discussing how some Thais refuse to grasp that one is speaking Thai, even if it is perfect. 

Clearly trolling.

 

My Wife also faces the same issues on occasion… She’s Thai but some assume she’s from another Asian nation (Japan or Korea etc) & she gets the blank stare !!! 
 

Sometimes it’s because staff are also not Thai etc…  or simply because they’re not paying attention.

 

Again, well done to the pump attendant (anyone else) learning English & also and those foreigners here who try to learn Thai etc..

 

As you pointed out, it’s a very real experience that some Thai’s fail to identify that we are speaking to them in Thai even when it’s spoken well. 
 

 

 

51 minutes ago, Highlandman said:

only you can understand

You cannot compute why a gas pump reading in a country famous for not resetting the pumps would show a 9 liter reading for a scooter with a capacity of 5 liters?? ????

 

Wow.

 

Just wow. 

22 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Think about all the market traders giving you a blank look when you tried to buy a kilo of oranges or the waitresses confused when you tried to order a Jack and Coke or the songtaew driver when you asked if he is going to Cicada Market etc, etc ,

Never.

 

I've ordered eight spicy ducks perfectly since the day I stepped off the plane here. 

37 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

We are discussing how some Thais refuse to grasp that one is speaking Thai, even if it is perfect. 

Perfect in whose opinion?

big deal, thousands of bar girls have been learning/teaching themselves to speak english for decades

6 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Personally, I find this type of attendant extremely annoying. I speak Thai and they often can't figure that out. 

<deleted> hell man, you having a bad day, or what? or did someone piss you off at your local gas staion today?   ????

9 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

47 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

We are discussing how some Thais refuse to grasp that one is speaking Thai, even if it is perfect. 

Perfect in whose opinion?

Many of us when honest with ourselves know our level of Thai...

 

While my Thai is far from perfect I can easily hold simple conversations with people, but sometimes miss a key word etc... I understand far more Thai than I speak. 

 

I know my standard of Thai and know when I am pronouncing something correctly....  I know when I am in a 'its not me, it's them' type of scenario... 

 

If you don't understand this 'scottiejohn' it's because your Thai is not at a sufficient standard to have ever encountered the issue.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, transam said:

Yeh but, you're a posh farangy, you keep telling us how wonderful you are. ????

 

Why not praise a Thai lad for making an effort.....?   

i guess his thai sounds like a squeeking monkey thats why they do not understand him

 

2 hours ago, loong said:

I agree with you - to a point.

I find it annoying when I speak Thai and they reply in English when their English is extremely poor and I find it very difficult to understand what they are saying.

I am far from fluent in Thai, so if their English is better than my Thai, I am happy to speak English with them.

If they ask if they can practice their English with me, I am happy to comply.

ow you are the worst 

1 hour ago, malathione said:

I've not run into even one who can farth in English. Come to think of it, I've yet to run across even an Englishman who can farth in his native tongue.

I've met plenty that talk through their arse.

3 hours ago, transam said:

Why not praise a Thai lad for making an effort.....?

The same reason that foreigners in Japan who speak Japanese lose their <deleted> when they get given a menu in English...

 

(They didn't go to the great effort of learning the local language to not be made to feel special for it.)

THere seems to be a sickness amongst expats and teachers of English in Thailand that leads them to be condescending towards learners of English - they equate lack of ability with stupidity whilst ignoring (or overestimating) their own lack of ability.

 

The number of expats who've said to me

"I don't speak Thai, but I understand what they are saying" - how daft can you get?

 

They don't equate their own ability with that of Thai counterparts.

Firstly most Thai people know both the Thai and Roman writing systems and many know the Chinese system as well - how many expats can claim that.

Thai people often speak several languages - they may speak Thai, chinese and Laos or Karen dialect as well as some English.

 

How many languages can the average expat speak?

 

I've heard their attempts at English or Thai and it's embarrassing.

 

I was visiting a family one time - the mother was Thai and the father was American - I was talking to the mother in Thai.

After a while the young lad said to me: - 

"How come you can speak Thai when my father can't?"

 

I really couldn't think of an answer - I just blurted out something about it being part of my job to speak Thai. But really, you'd have thought that someone who has put down roots in Thailand to the extent of marriage and children, might have made an effort to learn a bit of the local language.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 18, 20232 yr by kwilco

Some off topic posts and inflammatory posts contravening our Community Standards have been removed.

16 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

If you don't understand this 'scottiejohn' it's because your Thai is not at a sufficient standard to have ever encountered the issue.

What a pompous and irrelevant response to the question;
"Perfect in whose opinion?"

 

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

f Thais don't understand him while he is speaking Thai to them, perhaps his proficiency in spoken Thai is somewhat lacking.

I know several expats who claim to speak Thai, what they don't realise is that they are almost unintelligible - most Thai people listen politely and then guess what they are trying to say and act accordingly. THe problem here is that they assume that they are being understood which sadly is not the case.

one also wonders if they understand what is actually  being said to them.

 

Edited August 18, 20232 yr by kwilco

3 minutes ago, kwilco said:

THere is a sickness amongst expats and teachers of English in Thailand that leads them to be condescending towards learners of English - they equate lack of ability with stupidity whilst ignoring (or overestimating) their own lack of ability.

 

The number of expats who've said to me

"I don't speak Thai, but I understand what they are saying" - how daft can you get?

THey don't equate their own ability with that of Thai counterparts.

firstly most Thai people know both the Rhai and Roman writing systems and many know the Chinese system as well - how mant=y expats can claim that.

THey may speak Thai, chinese and Laos dialect as well as some English.

Howmany languages can the average expat speak?

I've heard their attempts at English or Thai and it's embarrassing.

I was visiting a family one time - the mother was Thai and the father was. aMerican - I was talking to the mother in Thai.

After a while the young lad said to me

 

"How come you can speak Thai when my father can't?"

I really couldn't think of an answer - I just blurted out something about it being part of my job to speak Thai. but really you'd have thought that someone who has put down roots in Thailand to th extent of marriage and children, might have made an effort to learn a bit of the local language.

 

 

 

 

Up to the individual, I would have thought, I don't speak Thai, I never wanted to speak Thai, and after many years living here, it hasn't really been a problem.

 

For instance, immigration, hospitals etc, have always spoken to me in English, so no ploblem, eh, and why do you think they learn English..????

 

Ask Goaty about his Pattaya sex bars, I bet many there speak English.....????

2 minutes ago, transam said:

Up to the individual, I would have thought, I don't speak Thai, I never wanted to speak Thai, and after many years living here, it hasn't really been a problem.

I doubt if you will ever understand the problem, or Thailand, as it is told you in Thai.

Edited August 18, 20232 yr by kwilco

1 minute ago, kwilco said:

I doubt if you will ever understand the problem as it is told you in Thai.

I don't want to hear a problem in Thai, a problem can be difficult to understand in English, ol' chap.......????

5 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

What a pompous and irrelevant response to the question;
"Perfect in whose opinion?"

 

Not at all...  its not difficult to gauge the standard of our own language skills...  

 

I know my Thai is not perfect, but know my Thai is good enough that its widely understandable for those with whom I speak Thai.

I also know I'm not going to be speaking Thai with a Doctor because I lack the technical vocabulary to do so. 

 

Thus: the point Neeranam made that 'some Thai's refuse to grasp that one is speaking Thai, even if it is perfect' is fully understandable. 

 

Whose opinion, our own of course, but we usually have a solid gauge of the standards of our language skills through the degree and success of our interactions.

 

But I'll add another example (already used), Wife is Thai, but is sometimes misjudged as not being Thai...  and sometimes she is not understood because the person with whom she is trying to communicate doesn't think she is speaking Thai thus the brain switches off and automatically goes into the 'no understand mode' or they are 'listening out for English' mode etc....

 

You may consider that pompous, however, it remains valid that IF you have not encountered similar situations it's likely because it's not a normal expectation of yours to be completely understood when speaking Thai. 

 

 

 

Someone once described this forum of smelling like old man's p#ss, I get what he means now

Just now, PremiumLane said:

Someone once described this forum of smelling like old man's p#ss, I get what he means now

I have no idea what that smells like, I guess you did the smell test......

15 minutes ago, kwilco said:

I know several expats who claim to speak Thai, what they don't realise is that they are almost unintelligible - most Thai people listen politely and then guess what they are trying to say and act accordingly. THe problem here is that they assume that they are being understood which sadly is not the case.

one also wonders if they understand what is actually  being said to them.

 

There's definitely a facet of this for some, meanwhile for others the issue comes down to the person with whom we are conversing. 

 

I've had a Thai's behind me in a queue (at a cashiers) tell the Cashier I was speaking Thai to them after the failed to grasp a simple question I had to repeat - only then could the conversation progress and it did so without further issue.

 

I've found this situation to be more common in tourist areas where Thai's are less familiar with foreigners who can speak Thai. 

 

In tourist area's I often give up speaking Thai all together because of this 'expectation' which lends itself to an initial confusion...  Wife often orders food etc in English when in a very touristy area too...  

This may also be because the staff there are not Thai and could be from Burma, Vietnam etc and have a better handle of English than Thai in the first place. 

 

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

You may consider that pompous,

Even more so as all I asked was a question that required a one word answer!

Just to remind you the question, which was not even directed at you, was;

"Perfect in whose opinion?"

30 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

The same reason that foreigners in Japan who speak Japanese lose their <deleted> when they get given a menu in English...

 

(They didn't go to the great effort of learning the local language to not be made to feel special for it.)

There could be an element of that to it... 

 

When speaking Thai, if the other person fails to recognise that I am speaking Thai its irritating. 

The source of the irritation ???...

 

- could be...  I've made effort to learn and practice and you can't even understand me. 

- could be... I'm speaking Thai, is it that rubbish ??

- could be... I know my Thai is fine I interact with Thai's on a daily basis, how is it possible you don't know I'm speaking Thai, thats strange. 

 

 

 

10 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

18 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

You may consider that pompous,

Even more so as all I asked was a question that required a one word answer!

Just to remind you the question, which was not even directed at you, was;

"Perfect in whose opinion?"

 

Just to remind you - that was answered in the first sentence... 

18 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

its not difficult to gauge the standard of our own language skills...  

And I added this example (unless you'd want to argue that My Wife's Thai is not perfect)

18 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

But I'll add another example (already used), Wife is Thai, but is sometimes misjudged as not being Thai...  and sometimes she is not understood because the person with whom she is trying to communicate doesn't think she is speaking Thai thus the brain switches off and automatically goes into the 'no understand mode' or they are 'listening out for English' mode etc....

 

I will ask you... Can you speak Thai ???... In your own opinion, what standard is your Thai ?

 

Is it widely understood to such a degree that you can converse with people in Thailand with few issues or misunderstandings ???....   

 

If so, then it's a normal expectation that when speaking Thai with Thai people that understand you, then when people don't you recognise that is usually because of them, not because if you.

 

I hope I've explained that clearly enough for you.... 

 

 

Edited August 18, 20232 yr by richard_smith237

1 hour ago, Gecko123 said:

Neeranam does have a point, even if his post came across as unappreciative of the young man's efforts to practice his English. The gas station attendant's English was barely beyond rudimentary and the Tik Tok's Thai appeared to be upper intermediate if not advanced. There's sort of an unwritten rule that you defer to whichever language both people have the highest proficiency in.

 

There are some Thais who barrel ahead in broken English or spend long moments trying to recall vocabulary blithely ignoring evidence that your command of Thai is vastly superior to their English. Worse still, are Thais who instantaneously try to bully you and act dismissively about your Thai and coerce you into speaking English with them by simply refusing to acknowledge your Thai skills or make any effort to comprehend your Thai.

 

Foreigners who speak Thai well are aware of this dynamic. They are confident about their Thai language skills because they have had countless successful interactions with Thais in Thai. They know when a person is simply refusing to speak Thai with them, versus having a genuine difficulty comprehending non-native Thai. As annoying as this can sometimes be, as Neeraman said, I do agree that foreigners should be reasonably tolerant of this behavior, especially around young people who are just trying to develop their English skills.

Very well said...