Apply for Non O or Non O-A Visa?

[corona]

Hello all, 

 

I applied for and granted an METV visa this year and then travelled to Thailand to see my Thai girlfriend.  

 

I had issues with the immigration officer at BKK with my METV.  She was insistent that I was intending to reside in Thailand.  She finally let me in but it was an unpleasant encounter.  I was really confused why the IO was giving me such a hassle since I have the METV and I have only visited Thailand less than five times for no more than a week (except for a 45-day visit in March of this year).  I did remain calm throughout the interview.

 

I left before 60 days was up and came back to BKK after a week.  This time, the IO would not let me in. Apparently I have a note in my record saying  I intended to reside in Thailand. This IO was more unpleasant than the previous IO.  I was referred to a supervisor who ended being really nice.  He sorted it out for me in the end and allowed me to enter for 60 days.  He suggests that I apply for an O-A visa next time I enter Thailand.  Now I assume that my METV would no longer be accepted even though it has a couple of months left in validity.

 

The question is, if I apply for the non-O visa (which has less requirements but only valid for 90 days - maybe I could extend?) would I encounter issues at the border? Or should I go ahead and apply for the non O-A visa? I would be applying in the US.

 

I intend to get married to my girlfriend early next year whenever I get a non O/O-A visa. I will then apply for a marriage visa (not planning to do an extension).  I should be eligible for LTR-WP visa and I may apply for one after I file my taxes next year.  Our plan is to move to the US after a US immigrant visa is granted to my spouse.  

 

PS. I don't have a bank account in Thailand and I'm caught up in this catch-22 of needing a long stay visa to open one.  Otherwise, I would apply for the non-O here.

 

Appreciate any suggestions.

 

 

 

 

 

[MPoll]

9 minutes ago, corona said:

Interesting . . . The OA you can only apply for in the US and requires qualifying health insurance. However, you can get about 2 years of use out of it. That might fit your timeline for getting your wife back to the US. I had an OA and now have an LTR. The 10 year LTR was really easy to get if you have a simple pension income of $80,000/year.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BritTim]

33 minutes ago, corona said:

The question is, if I apply for the non-O visa (which has less requirements but only valid for 90 days - maybe I could extend?) would I encounter issues at the border? Or should I go ahead and apply for the non O-A visa? I would be applying in the US.

Depending on your nationality, you may be able to apply for a one-year multiple entry Non O visa based on being over the age of 50. I would definitely suggest the Non O (even if only single entry) over the Non O-A.

 

As you correctly pointed out in your post, the main challenge in getting a one-year extension of your permission to stay from a Non O visa is the required possession of a bank account. One way or another, that can be resolved. If necessary, employ the services of an agent to sort it out.

 

With a Non O visa, there should be no issues at the airport.

[corona]

I am a US citizen.  I logged into the Thai e-visa website and it gives me the option to apply for non O visa.

 

I am just paranoid that somehow immigration put a note in my record that will cause issues on entry unless I have the non O-A visa.

[Red Phoenix]

16 minutes ago, corona said:

I am a US citizen.  I logged into the Thai e-visa website and it gives me the option to apply for non O visa.

 

I am just paranoid that somehow immigration put a note in my record that will cause issues on entry unless I have the non O-A visa.

The border Imm Officer only suggested you to apply for an O-A visa next time you enter Thailand.  What he meant is that to avoid any more problems with tourist Visa (like your METV), that you should apply for a Non Imm O Visa.  The O-A is only one of the possible Non Imm O Visa option, and in your case - when over 50 years of age - the 90-day Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement is a far better option. 

Furhtermore it is recommended to apply for the 90-day Non Imm O eVisa from your home-country, as the 1-year extension of such Non Imm O (retirement) Visa requires a personal Thai bank-account which is almost impossible to get when you do not have a Non Imm O Visa already.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

53 minutes ago, BritTim said:

Depending on your nationality, you may be able to apply for a one-year multiple entry Non O visa based on being over the age of 50. I would definitely suggest the Non O (even if only single entry) over the Non O-A.

 

Tim, what's your rationale for recommending the Non  O visa over the Non O-A for the OP here?

 

I always have trouble keeping all these different visa details straight...

 

But AFAIK, the O visa is only going to allow individual 90-day stays before having to leave the country (and return if the visa is multi-entry), whereas the O-A visa entitles the holder to a continuous one-year stay, and a second year if they leave and re-enter just before the first year expires.

 

Also, with the O-A, the financial / bank deposit requirement can be met entirely in the home country / U.S., without having to deposit the funds first into a Thai account. Though it does require a criminal history report and medical check.

 

Given the OP's stated plan -- "Our plan is to move to the US after a US immigrant visa is granted to my spouse." -- it sounds like he's going to need to be in Thailand for a while.

 

Edited August 18, 2023 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[DrJack54]

18 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

But AFAIK, the O visa is only going to allow individual 90-day stays before having to leave the country (and return if the visa is multi-entry),

Sort of mixing up two visas.

 

The single entry non O retirement provides ONE entry giving a 90 day permission of stay.

In the last 30 days apply for a 12 month extension

Buy reentry permit if you wish to exit and reenter.

 

The non O-A is a visa valid for 12 months from date of issue and as you point out each entry the stamp gives 12 month permit.

So indeed almost 2 years is possible. 

Downside is insurance requirement.

 

If availabe in the states he could obtain a ME Non O retirement which is valid for 12 months but requires exits every 90 days.

 

 

OP, I rarely suggest a non O-A however... 

In your case since you intend to marry thing the non O-A is a good fit.

If you obtain the non O-A in USA you can enter with that.

With non O, non O-A, etc you will be able to open a bank a/c.

 

As pointed out that can provide up to almost 2 year stay..

For the second year you would need a reentry permit if you wish to exit and reenter.

 

The downside is o believe the first extension to a non O-A needs to be based on retirement (not sure) 

You can obtain extensions from the non O-A based on marriage and the insurance is not required. 

 

BTW the immigration officer that gave you a rough time is a jerk on a power trip. 

Edited August 18, 2023 by DrJack54

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

The single entry non O retirement provides ONE entry giving a 90 day permission of stay.

In the last 30 days apply for a 12 month extension

Buy reentry permit if you wish to exit and reenter.

AFAIK, a person also has the option of applying for a multiple entry Non-O based on retirement that provides multiple 90 day stays during the first year... The application fee is a bit higher ($200 USD), but the requirements otherwise are the same.

 

That's an alternative to doing a single-entry Non-O and then applying in-country for a one-year extension of stay from Thai Immigration based on either marriage or retirement, which in either case, is going to require funds being deposited in or imported into Thailand.

 

 

 

[DrJack54]

12 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

AFAIK, a person also has the option of applying for a multiple entry Non-O based on retirement that provides multiple 90 day stays during the first year... The application fee is a bit higher ($200 USD), but the requirements otherwise are the same.

So is the ME Non O retirement available in the states as an eVisa  (0ne year visa)

I know it's available in UK.

Pretty sure not available in AU

 

If the OP can obtain one that would be good option. 

 

Edited August 18, 2023 by DrJack54

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

35 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

So is the ME Non O retirement available in the states as an eVisa  (0ne year visa)

I was looking on the E-Visa website the other day as a U.S. resident, and it showed both the single and multi-entry Non-Os as being available.

 

But, now I'm confused in what I'm seeing... The initial screens definitely show the notion of a Non-O for retirement purposes,, as follows:

 

 

 

But then when you click thru to the Non-O info link at the bottom, the ensuing page only talks about marriage/family visit stays and misc others...and nothing about straight retirement.

 

 

https://thaievisa.go.th/non-immigrant-o

 

Edited August 18, 2023 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[BritTim]

12 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I was looking on the E-Visa website the other day as a U.S. resident, and it showed both the single and multi-entry Non-Os as being available.

 

The downside for me -- but maybe not the OP -- is I would hate the hassle of having to do out-of-country trips every 90 days under the ME Non-O.

It is worth mentioning that the multiple entry visa gives you the option of border runs after 90 days. You still have the option of applying for an extension if you wish.

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Tim, what's your rationale for recommending the Non  O visa over the Non O-A for the OP here?

 

I always have trouble keeping all these different visa details straight...

 

But AFAIK, the O visa is only going to allow individual 90-day stays before having to leave the country (and return if the visa is multi-entry), whereas the O-A visa entitles the holder to a continuous one-year stay, and a second year if they leave and re-enter just before the first year expires.

 

Also, with the O-A, the financial / bank deposit requirement can be met entirely in the home country / U.S., without having to deposit the funds first into a Thai account. Though it does require a criminal history report and medical check.

 

Given the OP's stated plan -- "Our plan is to move to the US after a US immigrant visa is granted to my spouse." -- it sounds like he's going to need to be in Thailand for a while.

The biggest advantage of the Non O-A visa (as you point out) is that you avoid the need to bring money into Thailand. As against that, it requires insurance, police checks, health certificates (that are often a pain to get in the US) and a slightly longer application process as endorsement of the application by MFA headquarters is required.

 

Having to leave Thailand every 90 days would be a drag for those who dislike travelling. However, Saigon, Luang Prabang, Angkor, Penang, Singapore etc. are great places to visit for many who have not previously spent much time in South-east Asia.

[arick]

Why would anybody do a non-a it's ridiculous

[arick]

The bottom line don't migrate to Thailand or retire in Thailand there's a lot of other countries to go to instead of this country this country is just screwed up don't come to Thailand do you not invest in Thailand don't bring your money to Thailand don't buy condos in Thailand don't buy houses in Thailand don't get a partner in Thailand just stay away from this country that's my recommendation

[DrJack54]

1 hour ago, arick said:

Thailand don't buy houses in Thailand don't get a partner in Thailand just stay away from this country that's my recommendation

At that is ridiculous.

That's my recommendation.

[sandyf]

20 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I was looking on the E-Visa website the other day as a U.S. resident, and it showed both the single and multi-entry Non-Os as being available.

You have to be careful on what you are actually looking at. The number of entries selection is at the bottom of page one of the application.

When the E-visa was first rolled out in the UK, "Multiple" could not be selected as it was greyed out, some time later the option became available.

You would need to start an application to confirm availability.

 

 

[Red Phoenix]

22 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

The downside is o believe the first extension to a non O-A needs to be based on retirement (not sure) 

You can obtain extensions from the non O-A based on marriage and the insurance is not required. 

It is correct that the first 1-year extension of a Non Imm O (or O-A) Visa has to be done for SAME REASON than the original Visa.  So in case of in-country application for the first 1-year extension of a Non Imm O-A Visa such extension can only be done for reason of retirement. And such (retirement) extension of a Non Imm O-A Visa - apart from 800K on a personal Thai bank-account - also requires a valid Non Imm O-A compliant health-insurance policy.  Note that when applying in your home-country for the Non Imm O-A Visa that you can make use of foreign insurance to meet that Health Insurance requirement.  But when applying for the 1-year extension of stay of such Non Imm O-A Visa for reason of retirement, that ONLY Non Imm O-A compliant Health Insurance from a THAI TGIA-associated insurer is accepted by Immigration.

Once you are already on a 1-year extension of stay of that Non Imm O-A Visa and you meet the requirements, you then have the option to apply for a different reason than retirement (e.g. for reason of marriage or for reason of Thai dependent children) and in that case there is NO need for any Health-Insurance. 

[Red Phoenix]

6 hours ago, arick said:

Why would anybody do a non-a it's ridiculous

In majority of cases applying for a Non Imm O-A Visa is not the best option for long-term stay in Thailand.

However, if you have already Health-Insurance (Thai or international) that meets the Non Imm O-A requirements, and you foresee to go at least once every 2 years to your home-country and apply there again for a new Non Imm O-A Visa, then - and only then - it is still a very good deal. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

22 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I was looking on the E-Visa website the other day as a U.S. resident, and it showed both the single and multi-entry Non-Os as being available.

 

But, now I'm confused in what I'm seeing... The initial screens definitely show the notion of a Non-O for retirement purposes,, as follows:

 

 

 

But then when you click thru to the Non-O info link at the bottom, the ensuing page only talks about marriage/family visit stays and misc others...and nothing about straight retirement.

 

 

https://thaievisa.go.th/non-immigrant-o

 

 

Can anyone with actual experience on the point resolve the apparent contradiction raised in the info above in my post?

 

Are regular Non-O visas (either single or multiple entry) available thru the Thai E-Visa system for Western country nationals specifically for retirement, as opposed to for marriage/family purposes?

 

Unless I'm missing something, the current info webpage they have for regular Non-O visas (as opposed to O-A visas) makes no mention of the retirement category.

 

https://thaievisa.go.th/non-immigrant-o

 

 

 

[khunPer]

On 8/18/2023 at 5:45 AM, corona said:

PS. I don't have a bank account in Thailand and I'm caught up in this catch-22 of needing a long stay visa to open one.  Otherwise, I would apply for the non-O here.

 

Appreciate any suggestions.

A non-OA visa would be the best choice for you – if you are over 50 years old, as it's a "retirement visa" – it will give you multiple entry and 1 year stay per entry.

 

The benefit of OA-visa is that you can keep your money abroad in your home country, but of course still need the financial capacity required for the visa. It's the perfect visa for 50+ years with a limited stay in Thailand for up to one year; for example snow birds.

 

The downside of OA-visa is the health insurance claim. However, it's always wise to have an insurance.

 

When extending stay an Thai bank account and deposit is required for both entry visas, while a health insurance is still a demand for the OA-visa. The benefit of non-O here is the freedom of health insurance choice, where in some cases also self-insurance might be an option, depending of heath status, age and financial capacity.

[BritTim]

3 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Are regular Non-O visas (either single or multiple entry) available thru the Thai E-Visa system for Western country nationals specifically for retirement, as opposed to for marriage/family purposes?

I can confirm that single and multiple Non O visas (age over 50) are available through the e-visa system for some countries' nationals. For example, UK citizens who qualify can get them. It is quite likely that this still varies by country, even when the e-visa system is used.

[oldcpu]

On 8/19/2023 at 2:30 PM, khunPer said:

 

The downside of OA-visa is the health insurance claim. However, it's always wise to have an insurance.

 

 

True - its good to have health insurance.

 

BUT the downside is that the implementation by Thailand pretty much requires it be Health insurance from the Thai branch of a health insurance company.

 

There are a number of us on this forum, who have SUPERB international health insurance (from Europe or North America) that exceeds the Thai Health Insurance requirements (and its cheaper than Thai health insurance because it is subsidized for us by our pension) , but our Health Insurance is NOT accepted by Thai immigration because it is NOT from a Thai branch of a Health Insurance company.

 

It was because of that VERY Type-OA health insurance requirement from a Thai branch (mostly only) (extensions for reason of retirement) that I ended up switching to a Type-O visa.  By changing to a Type-O visa I was able to keep my superior international health insurance (from Europe) and NOT be forced to purchase double insurance from a Thai branch of a Health Insurance company (when going for 1-year extensions based on 'retirement').

 

I wish that Thailand immigration (for Type-OA visa) would adopt the policy of the Long Term Resident (LTR) visa, where one can self insure by having >$100K US$ equivalent in a bank account anywhere in the world.  But they don't - one needs to buy their Thai health insurance from a Thai branch (mostly) for the Type-OA Visa.

 

Its important to point that out to anyone thinking of going to a Type-OA, who may naively think  their European or North American health insurance is OK, could be disappointed.  The odds are their foreign branch health insurance will not be accepted in Thailand.

 

 

Edited August 22, 2023 by oldcpu

[khunPer]

3 hours ago, oldcpu said:

True - its good to have health insurance.

 

BUT the downside is that the implementation by Thailand pretty much requires it be Health insurance from the Thai branch of a health insurance company.

 

There are a number of us on this forum, who have SUPERB international health insurance (from Europe or North America) that exceeds the Thai Health Insurance requirements (and its cheaper than Thai health insurance because it is subsidized for us by our pension) , but our Health Insurance is NOT accepted by Thai immigration because it is NOT from a Thai branch of a Health Insurance company.

 

It was because of that VERY Type-OA health insurance requirement from a Thai branch (mostly only) (extensions for reason of retirement) that I ended up switching to a Type-O visa.  By changing to a Type-O visa I was able to keep my superior international health insurance (from Europe) and NOT be forced to purchase double insurance from a Thai branch of a Health Insurance company (when going for 1-year extensions based on 'retirement').

 

I wish that Thailand immigration (for Type-OA visa) would adopt the policy of the Long Term Resident (LTR) visa, where one can self insure by having >$100K US$ equivalent in a bank account anywhere in the world.  But they don't - one needs to buy their Thai health insurance from a Thai branch (mostly) for the Type-OA Visa.

 

Its important to point that out to anyone thinking of going to a Type-OA, who may naively think  their European or North American health insurance is OK, could be disappointed.  The odds are their foreign branch health insurance will not be accepted in Thailand.

To my knowledge, you can have your foreign health insurance approved by the embassy, when applying for a non-OA visa. You can with a non-OA visa in my home country...

 

• Proof of Thai health insurance that covers the whole duration of stay in Thailand. The health insurance policy must have coverage not less than 100,000.- USD (3,000,000.- THB) per policy. Applications can submit either the copy of the health insurance policy or the original one (if available) and Print out this Foreign Insurance Certificate to be filled and signed by the insurance company. Buy Thai Insurance here
• Foreign Insurance Certificate – the form can be downloaded here 

Source link HERE.

[BritTim]

27 minutes ago, khunPer said:

Foreign Insurance Certificate – the form can be downloaded here 

Good luck getting the directors of a major foreign insurance company to sign that.

[oldcpu]

18 hours ago, khunPer said:

To my knowledge, you can have your foreign health insurance approved by the embassy, when applying for a non-OA visa. You can with a non-OA visa in my home country...

 

You can "TRY" when first applying for a Type-OA 1 year extension, to have a foreign health insurance company sign that form - but I think it unlikely to be successful. 

 

I know from my 1st hand experience that European Cigna REFUSED to fill in such a form - despite multiple efforts on my part contacting different levels of management. 

 

Further, from 1st hand experience, when I contacted the Thai branch of Cigna, showed them my coverage from the European Cigna, and asked them (the Thai Cigna branch) if they would do the appropriate processing for my European Cigna insurance to be accepted (for a nominal fee to them the Thai branch) they REFUSED to do such.  They would ONLY do such if I purchased double health insurance from them.

 

Further, the form is only good for when 1st applying for a type-OA Visa.  My understanding is that form can NOT be used for Extensions ... and I have yet to read of anyone's experience successfully using such a form (signed by a foreign health insurance company IF they can find one to sign) when applying for a one-year extension on their Type-OA visa (with foreign health insurance). and then IF also succeeding with such a signed form to have Thai immigration accept such (on the 1 year extension).

 

In fact, for my 1st extension on my Type-OA visa, for reason of retirement, I had to buy worthless (due to massive deductible) double Health insurance from the Thai branch of a Health Insurance company, while still retaining my massively superior European Health insurance.

 

I think the forum members would be most curious to learn of a foreign health insurance company that will  be accepted by Thai immigration for one year Type-OA visa extensions.  Not just the initial application, no I specifically refer to the subsequent 1 year extensions.    Most accounts that I have read on this forum, were people like myself, who had to buy Health Insurance from a Thai branch of a Health Insurance company, to have it accepted by Thai immigration (in my case double health insurance as I refused to give up my superior European health insurance).

 

Again - I wish the $100K US$ equivalent in any bank in the world approach (for self health insurance) accepted by BoI for the LTR visa, would be applied to the Type-OA visa. 

.

Edited August 23, 2023 by oldcpu

[deptrai]

I'm finding this thread very interesting and informative.

My wife and I are intending to "retire" in Thailand using the non-immigrant O-A visa.  We're US citizens, 50+ years of age and will not have any health insurance so the requirement for health insurance hasn't been a reason to go for the O rather than O-A.  The perceived difficulties in opening the required bank account in Thailand in a short period has really discouraged me from even considering the O.  I would be too stressed.

 

Upon expiration of either the O or O-A, how does the extension process differ?  After the initial two-year (one year + leaving the country and returning just before the initial year expires) I would probably then go for the O as I would have plenty of time by then to figure out how to open a Thai bank account.  Even then, I would still have to (or want to) purchase health insurance.

 

I put "retire" in quotes, because we plan to eventually (5+ years later) return to the USA some time after becoming eligible for Medicare coverage.

 

Mentioned upthread is that obtaining a health certificate can be difficult in the USA.  I'm interested in first-hand experiences.  

[oldcpu]

11 hours ago, deptrai said:

Upon expiration of either the O or O-A, how does the extension process differ? 

The two differ in that the Type-OA visa has a Health Insurance requirement, while the Type-O Visa does not have such (when applying for an extension based on retirement).  

 

Further the source of Health Insurance accepted by Thai immigration for the Type-OA visa is limited mainly to Health Insurance obtained from the Thai branch of a health insurance company. Dependent on one's age, such Health Insurance can be expensive.  Insurance from non-Thai branches of Insurance companies are in general not accepted.  

 

It would be helpful, if those with foreign Health insurance, who managed to obtain a one year extension on their Type-OA visa, would post their experience.  I have yet to read of one such case.

 

That Health Insurance requirement, mostly from a Thai branch of a Health insurance company, has 'driven' a number of expats away from the Type-OA visa.
 
Note that to change from a Type-OA to a Type-O visa, will require you to leave Thailand (without a re-entry permit on the Type-OA visa) to invalidate the Type-OA visa, and then return to Thailand (possibly return Visa Exempt) to apply for a Type-O Visa.  Upon re-entering Thailand to obtain the type-O visa, there will be typical Visa application paper work required, and possibly you will again need to prove the 800K THB money you have in a Thai bank came from abroad, and that it was not money earned in Thailand. Different immigration offices implement the rules in different manners - so one's "mileage may vary".

 

If the 1st time you enter Thailand Visa exempt, the main challenge, as you note, will be opening a Bank account.  I was able to do such 7 years ago (when buying a condominium in Phuket when I was on a Visa exempt status), but I have read that is mostly not possible currently.  However I have read claims on this forum that use of an agent can help overcome this difficulty in opening a bank account when in Thailand Visa Exempt.

 

One possibility, is if you visit Thailand either on a Tourist Visa, or Visa exempt, BEFORE retiring, you could at that time try to open an account (possibly using an agent).  Not succeeding in such an initial trip won't be a disaster as your retirement move will come some time later.  And if you are successful in opening the bank account, I think your 'way forward' (type-O or type-OA visa) should be more clear.

Edited August 24, 2023 by oldcpu

[DrJack54]

12 hours ago, deptrai said:

My wife and I are intending to "retire" in Thailand using the non-immigrant O-A visa. 

If you are planning to live ongoing in Thailand you should obtain a Non O (retirement) in the USA.

 

Your wife can obtain a non O and piggyback on your visa as dependent.

 

If you enter with a non O visa you should be able to open account.

 

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by DrJack54

[BritTim]

18 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

If you are planning to live ongoing in Thailand you should obtain a Non O (retirement) in the USA.

 

Your wife can obtain a non O and piggyback on your visa as dependent.

 

If you enter with a non O visa you should be able to open account.

This is a good plan, though there is one major complication you must be aware of. Once you have a one-year extension of stay, your wife is eligible for an extension as your dependant. However, the initial Non O visa for this cannot be acquired in Thailand. It may be best initially for both of you to apply for Non O visas independently, with your wife changing to extensions as your dependant later if desired.

[DrJack54]

54 minutes ago, BritTim said:

Once you have a one-year extension of stay, your wife is eligible for an extension as your dependant. However, the initial Non O visa for this cannot be acquired in Thailand

Correct.

Would it be possible for them both to obtain non O retirement in USA and after entry he applied for 12 month extension based on retirement and she applies for extension based on dependant.

 

Vaguely recall ubonjoe posting something along those lines  however perhaps I just misunderstood.