Outrage over Abbas's antisemitic speech on Jews and Holocaust

[Nick Carter icp]

9 minutes ago, placeholder said:

It's enough that he provided proof that he doesn't single out Israel.

He mentioned the Uigars to compare their situation  to the Holocaust  .

   His claim is that the Uigars persecution , the Palestinians situation and the Holocaust are all comparable .

   He wasn't showing concern for the Uigars , he just used them to normalise the Holocaust by comparing the 3 situations  

[placeholder]

44 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Yes, Mojorasin used the term "You guys" when replying to a Jewish poster and he also used the term "You guys" as a collective term for people who support Israel and also used the term Nazi in the sentence .

   *You  guys (Jews) need to stop behaving like  Nazis*

Is what he meant 
 

  

I couldn't find that quote from mojorasin. Could you direct me to where mojorasin wrote that?

[Nick Carter icp]

6 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I couldn't find that quote from mojorasin. Could you direct me to where mojorasin wrote that?

Edit

Edited September 18, 2023 by Nick Carter icp

[Nick Carter icp]

On 9/8/2023 at 9:24 AM, MrMojoRisin said:

It is a false equivalence.

 

The holocaust is without doubt clearly the low point of humanity.

Here’s a question though - what current situation in the world today is most comparable to the holocaust?

 

For me, two spring to mind:

 

China’s treatment of the Uyghur’s

Israel’s treatment of the Palestinian’s

 

The West is all but silent on both.

 

Why?

 

 

 

 

 

You are trying to claim that you were showing support or concern for the Uyghurs in this post !!!!!

   You were doing nothing of the sort .

You were using the Uyghurs plight to exaggerate the Palestinians  plight and also trying to normalise the Holocaust by comparing all three

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

On 9/17/2023 at 12:59 PM, MrMojoRisin said:

Are you going to leave me in suspense? Or are you going to actually cite the post where mojorasin wrote that?

[Nick Carter icp]

4 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Are you going to leave me in suspense? Or are you going to actually cite the post where mojorasin wrote that?

I do seem to recall that he replied to a Jewish poster saying *You people* and he replied to me with *You guys*

But I would rather not talk about other peoples Religion or talk about what other people have said , so I would like to drop the subject . 

    The thread is about what Abbas said, rather than what mojo said and I cannot be bothered to scroll back through all the thread looking for the quotes,  feel free to do so if you want to though

[placeholder]

27 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

I do seem to recall that he replied to a Jewish poster saying *You people* and he replied to me with *You guys*

But I would rather not talk about other peoples Religion or talk about what other people have said , so I would like to drop the subject . 

    The thread is about what Abbas said, rather than what mojo said and I cannot be bothered to scroll back through all the thread looking for the quotes,  feel free to do so if you want to though

Then maybe you should also drop the subject of asking mojorasin to perform the far more laborious task of looking through his posts to prove that he ever referenced the Royingas, etc.

[placeholder]

42 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

You are trying to claim that you were showing support or concern for the Uyghurs in this post !!!!!

   You were doing nothing of the sort .

You were using the Uyghurs plight to exaggerate the Palestinians  plight and also trying to normalise the Holocaust by comparing all three

I read that post. It didn't sound like mojorasin was trying to normalize it at all. Rather it was an over-the-top comparison to overly villify Israel and China.

[Nick Carter icp]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Then maybe you should also drop the subject of asking mojorasin to perform the far more laborious task of looking through his posts to prove that he ever referenced the Royingas, etc.

I was making a point that he seems just to care about the Palestinians and he's not concerned about people being oppressed overall and he just supports the Palestinians  because they are fighting against  Je , I mean Israel 

[Nick Carter icp]

7 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I read that post. It didn't sound like mojorasin was trying to normalize it at all. Rather it was an over-the-top comparison to overly villify Israel and China.

He did compare the Holocaust to the current Palestinians plight 

That is comparing the Nazis to the Israelis (Nazis were responsible for the Holocaust and Israel is responsible for the current Palestinian plight .

   That is a comparison between Nazis and Israel and that is the very definition of Anti Semitism 

 

 

The working definition of antisemitism

• Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.

 

https://www.holocaustremembrance.com/resources/working-definitions-charters/working-definition-antisemitism

 

 

[placeholder]

8 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

I was making a point that he seems just to care about the Palestinians and he's not concerned about people being oppressed overall and he just supports the Palestinians  because they are fighting against  Je , I mean Israel 

First, you claim he "seems" etc. Really? This isn't a thread that has anything to do with other groups. Despite which, he mentioned the Uyghurs.

And then you report your mind reading claim accusing him of antisemitism.via a cheap shot. You care to sink any lower? It might take some effort.

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

He did compare the Holocaust to the current Palestinians plight 

That is comparing the Nazis to the Israelis (Nazis were responsible for the Holocaust and Israel is responsible for the current Palestinian plight .

   That is a comparison between Nazis and Israel and that is the very definition of Anti Semitism 

 

 

The working definition of antisemitism

• Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.

 

https://www.holocaustremembrance.com/resources/working-definitions-charters/working-definition-antisemitism

 

 

I'm well aware of that working definition. By the same standards someone who was a consistent critic of the Chinese govt without comparing its conduct to other nations could be accused of racism.

[Nick Carter icp]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

I'm well aware of that working definition. By the same standards someone who was a consistent critic of the Chinese govt without comparing its conduct to other nations could be accused of racism.

If a person hates Chinese people and China  , he would probably be called an *Anti-Sino* or something, rather than a racist 

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Nick Carter icp said:

If a person hates Chinese people and China  , he would probably be called an *Anti-Sino* or something, rather than a racist 

That's just laughable

[Nick Carter icp]

10 minutes ago, placeholder said:

That's just laughable

Chinese are not a race of people , so it doesn't make any sense to suggest its racism , what is the correct terminology for someone who hates China/Chinese  ?

[Nick Carter icp]

23 minutes ago, placeholder said:

And then you report your mind reading claim accusing him of antisemitism.via a cheap shot. You care to sink any lower? It might take some effort.

I will ask you then, why are you so supportive of the Palestinians  and not any other group in a similar situation .

  What other groups are you supportive of ?

I strongly support the Shan people and their quest for a homeland in Myanmar , who else do you support ?

[Cory1848]

11 hours ago, placeholder said:

More vagueness from you. Who are these people who only criticize Israel.?

 

There are tons of people who are obsessively critical of Israel, who otherwise take little interest in world events and couldn’t find Tigray on a map. It may be “innocent” -- perhaps they have some personal connection in the region. It may be because they get their news from dubious sources and simply have a twisted, one-sided view of the world. Or it may be because they illogically hate Jewish people and obsess over crimes committed by the state of Israel as a way of justifying and reinforcing their hatred. I wouldn’t presume to judge a person, including people on this forum, without knowing where they’re coming from, but I do know several people personally who fall into the latter category above, and their obsessive focus on Israel clearly derives from antisemitism.

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Cory1848 said:

There are tons of people who are obsessively critical of Israel, who otherwise take little interest in world events and couldn’t find Tigray on a map. It may be “innocent” -- perhaps they have some personal connection in the region. It may be because they get their news from dubious sources and simply have a twisted, one-sided view of the world. Or it may be because they illogically hate Jewish people and obsess over crimes committed by the state of Israel as a way of justifying and reinforcing their hatred. I wouldn’t presume to judge a person, including people on this forum, without knowing where they’re coming from, but I do know several people personally who fall into the latter category above, and their obsessive focus on Israel clearly derives from antisemitism.

Whether or not there are tons of people is irrelevant. The fact is that Israel has massively violated the human rights of Palestinians and is continuing to do so, Villifying Israel's critics is just a way to evade addressing that issue.

[placeholder]

10 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

I will ask you then, why are you so supportive of the Palestinians  and not any other group in a similar situation .

  What other groups are you supportive of ?

I strongly support the Shan people and their quest for a homeland in Myanmar , who else do you support ?

Who says I'm not supportive of groups in a similar situation? And who appointed you the arbiter of legitimacy? Tell you what. The moderators have opened it up to members of aseannow.com to suggest articles to be posted. I've done that and succeeded more often than not.s. Apply yourself, just a little, and I'm sure you can succeed , too. That's a legitimate way to find out what my views are.

 

[Cory1848]

37 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Whether or not there are tons of people is irrelevant. The fact is that Israel has massively violated the human rights of Palestinians and is continuing to do so, Villifying Israel's critics is just a way to evade addressing that issue.

These are two entirely different issues. (1) Israel is violating the human rights of Palestinians in the West Bank. (2) Antisemitism has existed in the world for two millennia. I am NOT vilifying critics of Israel; I myself am a critic of Israel, particularly under Netanyahu, as are most of my friends in the US and elsewhere, many of whom happen to be Jewish. I AM vilifying those critics of Israel who criticize Israel obsessively and don’t care a hoot about violations of human rights in other parts of the world, as this MIGHT be an indication that their concern about Palestine is rooted in something other than an objective awareness of current events.

 

This might sound a *little* complicated, but it’s really not if you think it through.

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, Cory1848 said:

These are two entirely different issues. (1) Israel is violating the human rights of Palestinians in the West Bank. (2) Antisemitism has existed in the world for two millennia. I am NOT vilifying critics of Israel; I myself am a critic of Israel, particularly under Netanyahu, as are most of my friends in the US and elsewhere, many of whom happen to be Jewish. I AM vilifying those critics of Israel who criticize Israel obsessively and don’t care a hoot about violations of human rights in other parts of the world, as this MIGHT be an indication that their concern about Palestine is rooted in something other than an objective awareness of current events.

 

This might sound a *little* complicated, but it’s really not if you think it through.

The problem with "particularly Netanyaho" is that it downplays Israel's grave violations of Palestinian human right before his accession to being PM.

One reason that critics might focus particular attention on Israel is that, despite its flagrant violation of human rights, it received the most foreign aid from the USA out of any nation on the planet. Not just in per capita terms but in absolute terms as well.

[Cory1848]

29 minutes ago, placeholder said:

The problem with "particularly Netanyaho" is that it downplays Israel's grave violations of Palestinian human right before his accession to being PM.

One reason that critics might focus particular attention on Israel is that, despite its flagrant violation of human rights, it received the most foreign aid from the USA out of any nation on the planet. Not just in per capita terms but in absolute terms as well.

Oh c’mon, now you’re just throwing stuff at the wall. Netanyahu is an actual criminal who needs to stay in power to stay out of jail and has aligned himself with religious zealots to do so (sound familiar?). Some earlier Israeli PMs negotiated with the Palestinian leadership. And the Palestinian Authority have not always been the easiest negotiating partners, and the leadership of Hamas in Gaza has been atrocious. Neighboring Arab countries have treated Palestinian refugees like political pawns, not allowing them to assimilate into their own societies (for how many generations now?) based on unrealistic promises of a “right of return.” Sure, and when is the Jewish refugee in Israel going to get his flat in Basra back again? There’s plenty of bad behavior all around.

 

I’ll repeat myself: Those who focus exclusively on the *very real* crimes of the Israeli state while ignoring the *very real* crimes of, for instance, Israel’s neighbors, may have a world view that’s less than objective.

[Nick Carter icp]

6 hours ago, placeholder said:

The problem with "particularly Netanyaho" is that it downplays Israel's grave violations of Palestinian human right before his accession to being PM.

One reason that critics might focus particular attention on Israel is that, despite its flagrant violation of human rights, it received the most foreign aid from the USA out of any nation on the planet. Not just in per capita terms but in absolute terms as well.

The money from the USA goes to the Israeli military and the money is used to spend to defend Israel from being attacked by its neighbours .

   If the rest of the World signed peace treaties with Israel and accepted Israel's right to exist and normalised relations , then Israel wouldn't need to have such a high aid income from the USA .

   Supporting the Palestinian cause is the reason why the USA needs to give financial aid to Israel .

   If you people would stop attacking Israel, then they wouldn't need military financial aid

[candide]

17 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

The money from the USA goes to the Israeli military and the money is used to spend to defend Israel from being attacked by its neighbours .

   If the rest of the World signed peace treaties with Israel and accepted Israel's right to exist and normalised relations , then Israel wouldn't need to have such a high aid income from the USA .

   Supporting the Palestinian cause is the reason why the USA needs to give financial aid to Israel .

   If you people would stop attacking Israel, then they wouldn't need military financial aid

Hasn't the establishment of illegal settlement (according to International laws) played a role in the enduring negative attitude of some countries (and/or their population) towards Israel?

[Nick Carter icp]

4 minutes ago, candide said:

Hasn't the establishment of illegal settlement (according to International laws) played a role in the enduring negative attitude of some countries (and/or their population) towards Israel?

I don't think  that it has no .

There are Israel supporters ,

There are Israel haters  

There are people who have no interest in Israel 

I doubt whether any of the above groups will change their opinion because of settlements in the West bank 

[candide]

7 hours ago, Cory1848 said:

These are two entirely different issues. (1) Israel is violating the human rights of Palestinians in the West Bank. (2) Antisemitism has existed in the world for two millennia. I am NOT vilifying critics of Israel; I myself am a critic of Israel, particularly under Netanyahu, as are most of my friends in the US and elsewhere, many of whom happen to be Jewish. I AM vilifying those critics of Israel who criticize Israel obsessively and don’t care a hoot about violations of human rights in other parts of the world, as this MIGHT be an indication that their concern about Palestine is rooted in something other than an objective awareness of current events.

 

This might sound a *little* complicated, but it’s really not if you think it through.

Some issues raise more interest than others for different reasons, and in particular their level of mediatisation.

In the case of this conflict, it works both ways and It's a self-reinforcing phenomenon. There have been an incommensurate level of criticism of Irael just as an incommensurate level of support of Israel. Actually, It's the Zionist organisations which mediatised this issue and raised international attention to it.

It's true that it's a pity that other causes get less attention, such as the Kurds or the Ouighurs. As concerns Ouighurs, it is noticeable that Muslims tend to look the other way, apart from a few extremist organisations.

[ozimoron]

It was a disgraceful comment but the Israelis should realise they are the nazis in the Israeli Palestinian conflict and do something about it. The war crimes and human rights abuses suffered by the Palestinians  at the hands of the Israelis are appalling.  Comparisons of genocide in both conflicts are justified.

Edited September 19, 2023 by ozimoron

[Nick Carter icp]

Just now, ozimoron said:

It was a disgraceful comment but the Israelis should realise they are the nazis in the Israeli Palestinian conflict and do something about it. The war crimes and human rights abuses suffered by the Palestinians  at the hands of the Israelis are appalling.

That is an anti Semitic remark .

Stating that Israel are Nazis is officially regarded as being anti sematic .

   You are guilty of being an Anti Semite ,( its in the rule book and not a personal opinion )

   

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

That is an anti Semitic remark .

Stating that Israel are Nazis is officially regarded as being anti sematic .

   You are guilty of being an Anti Semite ,( its in the rule book and not a personal opinion )

   

Lots of people are nazis. Lots of Americans and Australians are Nazis. They walk around the streets with nazi flags. I am not being anti-semitic by calling some Israelis nazis. To suggest that every country has nazis except Israel is ridiculous.

 

To be crystal clear, I am opposed to Israeli government policy towards Palestinians. I will make no apology for calling anyone a nazi. I will not tolerate holocaust deniers either.

 

The accusation that anyone is a anti-semitic by suggesting there are nazis in Israel is weak as dish water.

Edited September 19, 2023 by ozimoron

[Nick Carter icp]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

Lots of people are nazis. Lots of Americans and Australians are Nazis. They walk around the streets with nazi flags. I am not being anti-semitic by calling some Israelis nazis. To suggest that every country has nazis except Israel is ridiculous.

You didn't say that there are Nazis in Israel , you stated that Israel are the Nazis .

   You didn't say that some Israelis are Nazis , you claimed that  Israel are the Nazis