How many solar panels?

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, gejohesch said:

Indeed, I forgot to say, that includes a contract (for 10 years if I remember right) to buy back excess electricity at 2.2 THB / Kwh. I guess that's what is meant by "grid feed" contract.

 

Whenever we need extra power (when solar generated not sufficient), we would buy at the standard rate. I checked, the average we paid over the last 17 months was around 4 THB/Kwh, but that would possibly increase a bit depending on how much we have to "import" (re. PEA price scale).

 

The packages I mentioned do not include batteries. We are not big users at night. 

 

I cannot remember the length of the guarantee , I'm not sure that was for that long as 10 years. Reason I'm a bit vague is that I considered that visit to the PEA office as a "first contact". We are not going to decide for any installation until some time next year. We plan to get a few extra AC's installed first and then watch for what our consumption becomes, then review the calculations.

Thanks, very interesting.

[Pink7]

2 hours ago, gejohesch said:

Indeed, I forgot to say, that includes a contract (for 10 years if I remember right) to buy back excess electricity at 2.2 THB / Kwh. I guess that's what is meant by "grid feed" contract.

 

Whenever we need extra power (when solar generated not sufficient), we would buy at the standard rate. I checked, the average we paid over the last 17 months was around 4 THB/Kwh, but that would possibly increase a bit depending on how much we have to "import" (re. PEA price scale).

 

The packages I mentioned do not include batteries. We are not big users at night. 

 

I cannot remember the length of the guarantee , I'm not sure that was for that long as 10 years. Reason I'm a bit vague is that I considered that visit to the PEA office as a "first contact". We are not going to decide for any installation until some time next year. We plan to get a few extra AC's installed first and then watch for what our consumption becomes, then review the calculations.

Get AC's with inverter, used less less power.

 

Pink

[BritManToo]

39 minutes ago, Pink7 said:

Get AC's with inverter, used less less power.

Pink

Don't use AC, it's bad for you, and it's bad for the environment.

Britman

[gejohesch]

On 10/8/2023 at 12:22 PM, eisfeld said:

Those are just recommended packages by installers that partner with PEA to get sales through them. You can have 5kW, 10kW etc. on single phase no problem. You do not have to use the PEA sponsoring installers afaik. 1kW is a joke and probably would take a super long time to recover the costs unless you go ghetto style super cheap components from the lazada special items bin installed by somchai the village "electrician" ????

 

A typical residential house should be able to get 10-20kW on the roof. Wouldn't bother installing anything under 5kW if you go feed-in as the cost per watt will be much higher with the smaller packages. Do you have the prices for each package at hand? Would be good if you posted those then.

 

If it's just micro-inverter and optimizer as the difference then that's a clear no. Just go for one central string inverter. Less hassle and the efficiency wont be that different for you to warrant that price increase.

 

 

Most likely. As I mentioned those PEA suggested ones are from companies that have a deal with PEA to get sales leads. 270k for 5kW is ridicolous. As you said for 5kW you should arrive at much less than 100k. A 550W panel goes for less than 5k, a 5kW inverter probably something like 25k so with 10 panels you're at less than 75k. Add a bit for cabling, mounting and this and that. Add installation and profit margin etc. Make it a bit more than 100k THB. Wouldn't pay more than 120k. Depends on the components and installer quality.

Coming back to your comments. First, I attach a jpeg showing the prices quoted by PEA for installations ranging from 3 to 5 KW (1P or 3P - Standard or Premium). As a bonus, the jpeg includes the 10 Kw 3P option ????.

 

The quotes are ranges, depending on the particular equipment one would select for an installation. The PEA website peasolar.pea.co.th offers indeed a variety of brands etc.

 

To the right, it says how many square metres about the installation would be. For 5 Kw : ca. 30 metres; for 10 Kw : ca. 60 square metres. We ourselves have an ideally positioned roof of a bit over 30 sq. m available - facing the south and with no obstruction. So, obviously we would be limited to the 5 Kw option, which is actually the maximum we would be considering.

 

Also to the right, in the orange box, an indication of a typical range of equipment that would be powered by the solar panels. I guess that is purely indicative. I'm a bit puzzled by 5 Kw driving 2 AC's of 12,000 BTU. That's not a lot of AC running at a given time, I think. However, that does not worry me too much, if we run a lot of equipment (during day time) and need to import from the grid (and pay an average of ca. 4 THB/unit for it), so be it! .... I will have to do some detail calculations at some stage to see how economical a 5 Kw installation would be for us. Note that we are absent for 3-6 months each year (traveling abroad), so any electricity produced by our solar panels would be bought back by PEA (at 2.2 THB/unit) - that would help the economics, I guess.

 

Finally, about the overall costs, we seem to concur that the PEA quotes tend to be OTT a bit. Going to another provider for the installation leads to 2 questions:

- which one? Would anyone have recommendations around Khon Kaen?

- would a solar installation done by others than PEA still allow for the excess electricity generated to be bought back by PEA?

[007 RED]

 @gejohesch great that you are considering solar.

 

I note from your comments that you are considering a system that will enable you to feed any surplus power back to the grid and get paid, albeit a pittance, for the privilege of giving your local PEA your surplus power.

 

In this case, it is most definitely not a DIY project.  If you wish to feedback surplus power into the grid you will need what is called a Very Small Power Producer (VSPP) Licence, which is issued by the Energy Regulation Commission (ERC) and allows for up to 10kWp feed-in.

 

ERC sets the rule/regulations concerning VSPP Licences and these are implemented locally by your MEA/PEA.

 

I have attached, for your information, a copy of the rules/regulations, which you will find very good bedtime reading if you suffer from insomnia.

 

The first part of the document mainly covers the contractual agreements between the potential supplier (you) and the MEA/PEA .  The interesting stuff starts at Annex 5 (page 47) which specifically covers the ‘Specification of Materials, Equipment and Solar Rooftop Installation’.  Annex 7 (page 87) covers the requirements of the installer e.g., registration, qualifications, duties etc.

 

You will see from Annex 5 that they have specifications covering just about everything in the system, from the solar panels, the inverters, the wiring, and the conduit.  They even require that a licenced civil engineer certifies that the roof structure can take the weight of the proposed solar array.

 

The installer is required to submit a mountain of paperwork e.g., copies of all manufacturer’s certificates to the MEA/PEA when they the apply for a VSPP licence for you.

 

After reading the above mentions rules/regulations, you will quickly realise the reason why having the system installed by an approved installer can be very expensive.

 

FYI…. I have also attached the latest PEA Inverter Approved list.  This list the makes and models of inverters that have been tested and meet the regulation requirements.  For an approved solar system, you can only use an inverter that is on the list.

 

In one of your earlier posts, you asked if you purchased panels, inverter etc to keep the costs down, would an installer instal them?  I think the simple answer is going to be no. 

 

For one moment put yourself in the installers position.  In a year you order a fair quantity of panels and inverters from various suppliers. No doubt because of quantity, you will get a reasonable discount on the normal price, so this will add to your profit.  Also, what would happen if the expensive inverter which you (customer) purchased failed, or produced magic smoke, when the system was turned on.  Who would be responsible for a replacement?

 

FYI.... You mentioned the Feed-in rate = 2.2 THB/unit.  Please bear in mind that the so called monthly connection charge for a dual reading meter is very substantial.  Sorry, I can't remember the exact figure, but I think you may get a shock as to the number of units that you will need to feed-into the grid each month just to cover this charge on your bill.

 

I hope this has been useful in your learning curve.  Best of luck with your proposed project and please keep us updated on developments.

20130918_giz_translation_solar_rooftop.pdf 2023-09-26 Inverter List Updated.pdf

[TimeMachine]

6 minutes ago, 007 RED said:

If you wish to feedback surplus power into the grid you will need what is called a Very Small Power Producer (VSPP) Licence, which is issued by the Energy Regulation Commission (ERC) and allows for up to 10kWp feed-in.

From what I read people are just hooking up and letting the meter spin backwards. Eventually a smart meter is put in when the readers of the meters Sus onto things.

[007 RED]

3 minutes ago, TimeMachine said:

From what I read people are just hooking up and letting the meter spin backwards. Eventually a smart meter is put in when the readers of the meters Sus onto things.

If you read the OP's posts, you will see the he spends considerable time away from home every year. 

 

If it was a simple grid tied system (like mine) and he forgot to activate the No Export facility before leaving home, the next time the meter reader came he/she would see the disc merrily spinning backwards, and most likely the numbers would be in negative region, which most certainly would be picked up back at the office.

 

That would prompt a visit by a senior PEA official to confirm the meter was spinning backwards.  If the OP was not at home when the official called, the most likely result will be power disconnection until the OP makes contact with the PEA. The PEA will then most likely instal an electronic meter which prevents backwards reading.  They also have the option of taking things further and demand that the system is disconnected and/or impose a fine on the OP to the value of the revenue which they have lost plus interest.

 

Hence the reason why he is considering having an approved system installed.

[TimeMachine]

39 minutes ago, 007 RED said:

They also have the option of taking things further and demand that the system is disconnected and/or impose a fine o

Has anybody experienced or have knowledge on this happening. I haven't seen any posts anywhere suggesting it's enforced like that. Not saying it won't but seems like no harm in just waiting for the smart meter install. That's what seems to be happening to people at this time. I hope people that are hit with fines or disconnection explain their experiences. Maybe they don't and it happens. I can only imagine the Thai way being the most popular amongst Thais whatever! Let's do it the easiest cheapest way and everyone will just hook onto a spinning meter like they ride bikes without helmets risking fines.

 

[BritManToo]

4 hours ago, gejohesch said:

Finally, about the overall costs, we seem to concur that the PEA quotes tend to be OTT a bit. Going to another provider for the installation leads to 2 questions:

- which one? Would anyone have recommendations around Khon Kaen?

- would a solar installation done by others than PEA still allow for the excess electricity generated to be bought back by PEA?

5Kw install without batteries would cost around 60kbht DIY.

At their prices you could have 15kWhr of batteries, be off grid 24/7 and not worry about selling anything back.

[Pink7]

5 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

5Kw install without batteries would cost around 60kbht DIY.

At their prices you could have 15kWhr of batteries, be off grid 24/7 and not worry about selling anything back.

Good Point!

 

Pink

[TimeMachine]

4 minutes ago, Pink7 said:

Good Point!

 

Pink

There are the benefits of being grid tied. No wasted power. It all gets used albeit poor FIT. And if your off grid system goes down, could be days before you get power back. No feeling of living like a King but with the cost of batteries not a terrible option.

[Pink7]

7 minutes ago, TimeMachine said:

There are the benefits of being grid tied. No wasted power. It all gets used albeit poor FIT. And if your off grid system goes down, could be days before you get power back. No feeling of living like a King but with the cost of batteries not a terrible option.

Just keep grid as a backup option on a ATS.

 

Pink

[TimeMachine]

2 hours ago, Pink7 said:

Just keep grid as a backup option on a ATS.

 

Pink

right ! Oops my mistake. I'm thinking as an Aussie. 80$au just for connection fee every quarter. I forgot Thailand is a zero elec  usage Zero fee country.

[Pink7]

28 minutes ago, TimeMachine said:

right ! Oops my mistake. I'm thinking as an Aussie. 80$au just for connection fee every quarter. I forgot Thailand is a zero elec  usage Zero fee country.

80 $au is quite allot of money to just be connected!

 

Pink

[TimeMachine]

11 hours ago, Pink7 said:

80 $au is quite allot of money to just be connected!

 

Pink

That's what happens when a public owned company gets given away to private hands. Greed Baby! Way back people were too stupid to know how it would affect them and they accepted BS talk. Strange how they continued to be stupid and allowed it to happen to telco too. The most bizarre thing was people were asked to buy shares in the company. Being asked to pay for something they already owned. Nothing gets more stupid than that.

Edited October 11, 2023 by TimeMachine

[Crossy]

12 hours ago, TimeMachine said:

right ! Oops my mistake. I'm thinking as an Aussie. 80$au just for connection fee every quarter. I forgot Thailand is a zero elec  usage Zero fee country.

 

It's not quite zero, there is a monthly connection fee, about 40 Baht IIRC (don't have a bill in front of me).

 

[gamb00ler]

47 minutes ago, TimeMachine said:

Being asked to pay for something they already owned. Nothing gets more stupid than that.

It's not like the money paid for the shares went into an individuals pocket.  The capital value of the purchased shares went into the government's coffers.  Hopefully the government then used those funds for the benefit of the public.

Edited October 11, 2023 by gamb00ler

[eisfeld]

8 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

It's not quite zero, there is a monthly connection fee, about 40 Baht IIRC (don't have a bill in front of me).

 

Yea it's tiny. The service charge is 8.19 THB if using less than 150kWh per month and 24.62 THB if above for the normal residential tariff.