Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part I

[Badrabbit]

2 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

The rules haven't changed for the 2024 tax filing, they are the same they've been for years. All that changes for next year is one small simple rule change which is extremely easy to understand. If you can't file this year it's because you have never filed before. Resident expats with overseas income have been filing taxes here for years.

 

I've lived here for 16 years and never paid tax on my 3 pensions here because untill recently I knew nothing about it, Immigration have never said anything to me about this at any of my extensions, tax office here told me "if you pay tax in the UK you won't pay tax here" do they know what they are talking about?

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, Badrabbit said:

I've lived here for 16 years and never paid tax on my 3 pensions here because untill recently I knew nothing about it, Immigration have never said anything to me about this at any of my extensions, tax office here told me "if you pay tax in the UK you won't pay tax here" do they know what they are talking about?

There's a difference between not knowing you're supposed to file and not knowing how to file.

[Badrabbit]

1 minute ago, Mike Lister said:

There's a difference between not knowing you're supposed to file and not knowing how to file.

Yea and?

[Mike Lister]

13 minutes ago, Badrabbit said:

Yea and?

Well, I've lived here for over 20 years and I've known I had to file for many years, and have. This has nothing to do with immi telling us, the Revenue is a totally different part of government. Just thinking back to all the posts that have been made here over the years, warning people not to remit funds in the same year they were earned, there have been loads warning people about the tax implications.

[Danderman123]

36 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

The rules haven't changed for the 2024 tax filing, they are the same they've been for years. All that changes for next year is one small simple rule change which is extremely easy to understand. 

 

The small rule change for 2025 impacts 2024 financial transactions.

 

If ex-Pat Edgar from Scotland who lives in Sisaket happens to cash out a savings account in England, and then wires the money into Thailand, he is going to have a problem in 2025.

[Danderman123]

36 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

The rules haven't changed for the 2024 tax filing, they are the same they've been for years. All that changes for next year is one small simple rule change which is extremely easy to understand. 

 

The small rule change for 2025 impacts 2024 financial transactions.

 

If ex-Pat Edgar from Scotland who lives in Sisaket happens to cash out a savings account in England, and then wires the money into Thailand, he is going to have a problem in 2025.

[Mike Lister]

6 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

The small rule change for 2025 impacts 2024 financial transactions.

 

If ex-Pat Edgar from Scotland who lives in Sisaket happens to cash out a savings account in England, and then wires the money into Thailand, he is going to have a problem in 2025.

Yes, and he's known that would  be the case since the announcement was made in November 2023 so he needs to plan for it and deal with it. 

[Badrabbit]

4 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Yes, and he's known that would  be the case since the announcement was made on November so he needs to plan for it and deal with it.

What about my 3 pensions that I pay tax on in the UK which are transfered here each month, why should I pay tax on them for a second time?

If I have to I will but when will I have too?

I'm not a wealthy pensioner. 

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, Badrabbit said:

What about my 3 pensions that I pay tax on in the UK which are transfered here each month, why should I pay tax on them for a second time?

If I have to I will but when will I have too?

I'm not a wealthy pensioner. 

Please read the simple guide to personal income tax thread, your answers are mostly all there on the op.

[Yumthai]

2 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

If ex-Pat Edgar from Scotland who lives in Sisaket happens to cash out a savings account in England, and then wires the money into Thailand, he is going to have a problem in 2025.

Probably not, as nobody will ask him anything more than usual when he'll renew his yearly extension at Sisaket Immigration.

And if, most unlikely, the immigration officer mentions about new requirements Edgar cannot fulfill, a helpful workaround will be offered simultaneously.

 

[Danderman123]

6 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Yes, and he's known that would  be the case since the announcement was made in November 2023 so he needs to plan for it and deal with it. 

How exactly is Edgar, the Scot living in Sisaket, supposed to know about this "small rule change" that may cause him thousands of pounds Sterling?

[jayboy]

22 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

The rules haven't changed for the 2024 tax filing, they are the same they've been for years. All that changes for next year is one small simple rule change which is extremely easy to understand. If you can't file this year it's because you have never filed before. Resident expats with overseas income have been filing taxes here for years.

 

 

Mike, you have done a fantastic job on this forum in clarifying the new tax situation - to the extent this can be done on existing knowledge.The Memorandum you produced was an excellent piece of work, though obviously still work in progress.

 

However you are simply not representing the position accurately regarding filing tax returns in the past by most resident expats, and I am particularly referring to retired expats who spend more than half the year in the Kingdom and have no income of any kind generated in Thailand..

 

You might argue that they should have filed - but overwhelmingly they have not.The situation has changed now, in part due to Common Reporting Standards with information sharing by international banks.So we must comply and the vast majority will.But there is no penalty for not having filed in previous years.

 

I was employed as a senior manager in India and then in Thailand and in both countries paid income tax - couldn't avoid it actually (PAYE). Couldn't have obtained Thai Permanent Residence without paying years of income tax. Since retirement I have never filed a tax return because I had no domestic income but I will almost certainly file for the 2024 tax year.This is also the case for most people in my situation.A couple of friendsmade inquiries of RD a few years ago and were told it was not necessary - no Thai income. Call it the Nelson Touch.

 

So in my opinion you are completely out on a limb on this aspect.It's not really even up for debate.You will certainly say that your punctilious adherence to the letter of the law trumps the actual practice of most retired expatriate residents.Perhaps it does.It's really just a minor detail but if there is misleading information or deviation from reality in just a small part, there's a danger of the whole being tainted. As Falstaff said, Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?

 

[Danderman123]

1 minute ago, Yumthai said:

Probably not, as nobody will ask him anything more than usual when he'll renew his yearly extension at Sisaket Immigration.

And if, most unlikely, the immigration officer mentions about new requirements Edgar cannot fulfill, a helpful workaround will be offered simultaneously.

 

It is possible, due to the requirements for RD and Immigration to work together to implement this "small rule change", that the usual helpful workaround at Immigration won't work. 

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

How exactly is Edgar, the Scot living in Sisaket, supposed to know about this "small rule change" that may cause him thousands of pounds Sterling?

The same way the rest of us do or have.

[Mike Lister]

3 minutes ago, jayboy said:

 

Mike, you have done a fantastic job on this forum in clarifying the new tax situation - to the extent this can be done on existing knowledge.The Memorandum you produced was an excellent piece of work, though obviously still work in progress.

 

However you are simply not representing the position accurately regarding filing tax returns in the past by most resident expats, and I am particularly referring to retired expats who spend more than half the year in the Kingdom and have no income of any kind generated in Thailand..

 

You might argue that they should have filed - but overwhelmingly they have not.The situation has changed now, in part due to Common Reporting Standards with information sharing by international banks.So we must comply and the vast majority will.But there is no penalty for not having filed in previous years.

 

I was employed as a senior manager in India and then in Thailand and in both countries paid income tax - couldn't avoid it actually (PAYE). Couldn't have obtained Thai Permanent Residence without paying years of income tax. Since retirement I have never filed a tax return because I had no domestic income but I will almost certainly file for the 2024 tax year.This is also the case for most people in my situation.A couple of friendsmade inquiries of RD a few years ago and were told it was not necessary - no Thai income. Call it the Nelson Touch.

 

So in my opinion you are completely out on a limb on this aspect.It's not really even up for debate.You will certainly say that your punctilious adherence to the letter of the law trumps the actual practice of most retired expatriate residents.Perhaps it does.It's really just a minor detail but if there is misleading information or deviation from reality in just a small part, there's a danger of the whole being tainted. As Falstaff said, Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?

 

I'm not trying to claim the moral high ground, just because I have filed tax returns for a few years, that would be crass. I'm merely pointing out that to date, almost nothing has changed yet many posters view news of the one small change as being something far greater than it is. The problem is not the rule change, the problem is the awakening to the reality that tax preparation and filing in Thailand has always been a requirement, but they never realized. Now that people are begining to understand that, they are pushing back against the words that have existed in the tax code for years. There is nothing much that's new here in all of this.

 

[Danderman123]

15 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

The same way the rest of us do or have.

This is the part you don't get:

 

There are a small number of ex-pats who work in Thailand and file taxes. They are hooked into the tax system and know the rules.

 

There are a large number of ex-pats in Thailand who don't even know that Thailand has income tax.

 

I only know about this "small rule change" because of this topic. How is some 86 year old living in the village in Sisaket supposed to know?

[Danderman123]

1 minute ago, Mike Lister said:

I'm not trying to claim the moral high ground, just because I have filed tax returns for a few years, that would be crass. I'm merely pointing out that to date, almost nothing has changed yet many posters view news of the one small change as being something far greater than it is. The problem is not the rule change, the problem is the awakening to the reality that tax preparation and filing in Thailand has always been a requirement, but they never realized. Now that people are begining to understand that, they are pushing back against the words that have existed in the tax code for years. There is nothing much that's new here in all of this.

 

You are saying that money transferred into Thailand has been taxable for many years? So, what's the "small rule change"?

[Badrabbit]

2 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

This is the part you don't get:

 

There are a small number of ex-pats who work in Thailand and file taxes.

 

There are a large number of ex-pats in Thailand who don't even know that Thailand has income tax.

 

I only know about this "small rule change" because of this topic. How is some 86 year old living in the village in Sisaket supposed to know?

This answer will be interesting.

[Yumthai]

1 minute ago, Danderman123 said:

It is possible, due to the requirements for RD and Immigration to work together to implement this "small rule change", that the usual helpful workaround at Immigration won't work. 

Sure, we can speculate one side or another til the end of time... or just wait for tax rules clarification.

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

You are saying that money transferred into Thailand has been taxable for many years? So, what's the "small rule change"?

Read the document we produced in the other thread please.

[Neeranam]

58 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

There's a difference between not knowing you're supposed to file and not knowing how to file.

Do you think those who don't know anything about these new circumstances will get fined if they are caught by the RD in the future for not filing for taxes? 

 

[Badrabbit]

3 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Do you think those who don't know anything about these new circumstances will get fined if they are caught by the RD in the future for not filing for taxes? 

 

How can I get fined for something I didn't know about and not told about, plus I pay tax in my home country ffs

[Mike Lister]

6 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

This is the part you don't get:

 

There are a small number of ex-pats who work in Thailand and file taxes.

 

There are a large number of ex-pats in Thailand who don't even know that Thailand has income tax.

 

I only know about this "small rule change" because of this topic. How is some 86 year old living in the village in Sisaket supposed to know?

Why ask me that question, my role here is to inform readers of the things we know about the tax rules and to try and help people by answering their questions about tax. My role is not to devise a system to notify 86 year olds who live in rural villages, neither is it my role to comment on the way government informs foriegners about rule changes that affect them.

[Mike Lister]

4 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Do you think those who don't know anything about these new circumstances will get fined if they are caught by the RD in the future for not filing for taxes? 

 

How can I possibly know that.

[jayboy]

4 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

the problem is the awakening to the reality that tax preparation and filing in Thailand has always been a requirement, but they never realized

 

I think most informed people (including me and everyone I know in Thailand) knew very well that overseas income was taxable and strictly speaking a return should be filed.But they were also aware of the current year income/previous years income distinction.They also knew that overseas income was fungible.They knew that RD did not expect the category under consideration to file returns.And on the whole they didn't.The change is as you point out is rather small but it is important as it tips the balance for affected resident expatriates to file returns from now on - probably.

[Mike Lister]

3 minutes ago, jayboy said:

 

I think most informed people (including me and everyone I know in Thailand) knew very well that overseas income was taxable and strictly speaking a return should be filed.But they were also aware of the current year income/previous years income distinction.They also knew that overseas income was fungible.They knew that RD did not expect the category under consideration to file returns.And on the whole they didn't.The change is as you point out is rather small but it is important as it tips the balance for affected resident expatriates to file returns from now on - probably.

I think so too, very much so they knew. But now some folks are saying that because they didn't get notified personally, and some aspects of the rules are still unclear, the whole thing is impossible and unacceptable! Hmmm!

[Danderman123]

12 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Do you think those who don't know anything about these new circumstances will get fined if they are caught by the RD in the future for not filing for taxes? 

 

It's possible that filing a tax return will be a requirement for visa renewal.

[Danderman123]

8 minutes ago, jayboy said:

 

I think most informed people (including me and everyone I know in Thailand) knew very well that overseas income was taxable and strictly speaking a return should be filed.

By definition, informed people know very well.

 

The problem with your logic is there are multitudes of uninformed Farangs living in Thailand.

[Neeranam]

2 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

It's possible that filing a tax return will be a requirement for visa renewal.

I see

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

By definition, informed people know very well.

 

The problem with your logic is there are multitudes of uninformed Farangs living in Thailand.

Informing foriegners in Thailand is not the topic, tax is. And please, give the sad confused emojis a rest, of something isn't clear, please ask.