Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part I

[KhunHeineken]

7 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Your post was disallowed because it violated forum rules, you know this because I have explained it to you. Stop playing the hard done by victim and start to write allowable posts or move on.   

 

Written as a Moderator, for the avoidance of doubt.

Duly noted. 

[treetops]

When I bring money into Thailand I usually use Wise whose MO is to take my funds in my home country and use their own funds in Thailand to square me up.  They show on my bank statement as funds received from another (Thai) bank.

 

Who is remitting in this scenario?

 

If as suggested Thai banks may report funds received from overseas as a tool to identify taxable funds to the RD, these will not be reported as remitted by me but by Wise.  What could happen here?

[JohnnyBD]

50 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

So, they have the power of entry into your premises to seize and summons. 

So does every other government taxing authority. I've been filing tax returns in the US since 1974, and I've never been audited, questioned, summoned or had assets seized. So, I'm not worried about Thailand's taxing authority at all. I will be getting a LTR visa soon anyway, so no worries after that.

[topt]

1 hour ago, moogradod said:

 

I agree that enforcement is of utmost importance and examples how anybody was treated are interesting. Why we should discuss for example the differences of IO (which we do to the benefit of readers). Actually local handling of any issue and local made up rules is all that matters.

I am sure that that if "enforcement" starts than the news will come out but until that happens what are you expecting.........? 

 

I agree that any experiences posted could be helpful. There was already a thread created about posters interaction with Revenue officers but I have not seen anything recently.

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, topt said:

I am sure that that if "enforcement" starts than the news will come out but until that happens what are you expecting.........? 

 

I agree that any experiences posted could be helpful. There was already a thread created about posters interaction with Revenue officers but I have not seen anything recently.

Indeed there is a feedback thread exactly for that purpose but few people posted.

[JohnnyBD]

1 minute ago, treetops said:

If as suggested Thai banks may report funds received from overseas as a tool to identify taxable funds to the RD

This is pure conjecture & speculation on one person's part. Not factual.

[Mike Lister]

Just now, JohnnyBD said:

This is pure conjecture & speculation on one person's part. Not factual.

Totally agreed, whatifery or conjecture, scaremongering almost.

[El Matador]

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

Here is a copy of the Forum rules which will allow everyone to to understand what languages are permissible for forum content and what things may be commented upon and what things may not.

 

https://aseannow.com/forum_rules/

 

The Thai tax representative was expressing in English inside the video. The key takeaways were written in English in the video and I gave additional written explanations about the video in English so people could understand the problems brought by the Thai tax representative and the French counterpart.

 

You are missing excellent information by not putting any kind effort to understand a mixed language video. For once, you had a proper explanation of the Thai revenue administration. People will look for those explanations outside of the forum then.

[treetops]

13 minutes ago, JohnnyBD said:

This is pure conjecture & speculation on one person's part. Not factual.

 

I thought that was evident from my post (my bolding for emphasis)

 

18 minutes ago, treetops said:

If as suggested Thai banks may report funds received . . . .

 

 

Agreed it's conjecture but so is almost everything on the subject at this stage.

 

It's not whatiffery (whataboutery) or scaremongering as suggested by another, it's an invitation to discuss a possibility.  Feel free not to if you think it too far fetched.

[Mike Lister]

6 minutes ago, El Matador said:

 

The Thai tax representative was expressing in English inside the video. The key takeaways were written in English in the video and I gave additional written explanations about the video in English so people could understand the problems brought by the Thai tax representative and the French counterpart.

 

You are missing excellent information by not putting any kind effort to understand a mixed language video. For once, you had a proper explanation of the Thai revenue administration. People will look for those explanations outside of the forum then.

I cannot sit through every video that is posted to see if there are any parts in English. The forum rules are clear, English language content only. If you feel there are parts that members will value, feel free to summarize them, for their benefit.

[UKresonant]

7 hours ago, CharlesHolzhauer said:

This maybe true for some individuals considering that, contrary to common belief, Thailand is not a retirement destination per se. That's why they don't and never have issued a retirement visa. .

That's about it for the O & OA Visas, it is a visa given because you are retired, and they permit a slightly longer stay., and have some money to spend. Renewal every year is by custom and practice, 

 

If anyone asks in the UK, is it a good place to retire, I respond, NO, it is however a wonderful place to spend a lot of your retired time.

 

Now the the.response.is to spend a good  amount  of you retired time not exceeding 179 Days unless you very careful.

 

I think the divergence of visa title compared with custom and practice, was pre-2017 ish. 

 

But if you don't have a Thai ID card, always have the capability to become mobile, should adverse custom and practice arise.

[Mike Lister]

5 minutes ago, treetops said:

 

I thought that was evident from my post (my bolding for emphasis)

 

 

 

Agreed it's conjecture but so is almost everything on the subject at this stage.

 

It's not whatiffery (whataboutery) or scaremongering as suggested by another, it's an invitation to discuss a possibility.  Feel free not to if you think it too far fetched.

Buy it's conjecture that has no. Basis and has solid reasons why it won't happen. Other aspects of the debate have some basis in fact.

 

[UKresonant]

9 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

I meant the overseas bank, the obe who issued the credit card.

I may have picked it up wrong, but the credit card issuing company, bank or not, won't report, but the bank account you pay the credit card with will be CRS applicable....perhaps.

[scottiejohn]

50 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

I cannot sit through every video that is posted to see if there are any parts in English.

Neither do I!

[UKresonant]

5 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

No, we always needed to care about it but didn't realize that we did.

Dad has been doing <180 days for a couple of decades now! (Excepting a couple of flight shedule changes maybe, but all from savings anyway, and UK resident under DTA article 4) 

[UKresonant]

Did anyone get a steer on the inheritance question someone posted a few pages ago. Their Lawyer was saying inheritance was 100m THB or less no tax if brought in and remitted same tax year, but may be taxed if remitted in latertax years.

 

Surely it would not be taxed, it would be savings? It's not income, how would it change Categories (according to the lawyers thoughts.

 

?

[Lorry]

14 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

Thai banks are not offshore banks, (although, some of their foreign currency accounts share some similarities with offshore accounts). The reality is that when funds, be they USD, GBP, YEN, or any other currency, are remitted to Thailand, they physically arrive in the country, it's not as though they do not, just because they arrive into a foreign currency account. If however that currency arrived here and was deposited into a non-resident foreign currency account, the BOT (and their agents the Thai banks) and the TRD, would treat those funds as offshore funds, for accounting and tax purposes. In that case, the funds would only actually arrive in Thailand for tax accounting purposes, once the foreign currency was converted into THB and withdrawn. But since the account owner is not Thai tax resident, there is no taxable event as a result.

 

So, the first question is whether the foreign currency account at the Thai bank is a resident or non-resident account, because that makes all the difference to the answer.

 

The second question is: if a foreigner opened a non-resident foreign currency account in Thailand, on the basis they are not tax resident here, what would happen to the status of that account, if one year the foreigner became tax resident and continued to operate the account? The answer is that the the account would revert to a resident foreign currency account as soon as the change in tax residency became known. The account would then be regarded entirely as an onshore account and provide no protection from tax whatsoever. In that case, any withdrawal of funds from the account, in any currency, would trigger a taxable event. AND, any past remittances  received into the account, during the year the account holder was tax resident, would become taxable retroactively.

 

 

Thx for this. 

How about bringing USD cash into Thailand,  e.g. in December, but exchanging it after the tourist season,  when the rate is often better.

In your opinion,  in which year has this money been remitted to Thailand?

I guess in December,  when you and the money physically arrived? 

[Lorry]

11 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

You have to show your passport to exchange the US cash to Baht cash.  What will happen at that point enters into the compliance / enforcement discussion, which has to be discussed at a later date. 

I know,  but my question was: when (in which year) had the money been remitted?

[Mike Lister]

3 minutes ago, Lorry said:

Thx for this. 

How about bringing USD cash into Thailand,  e.g. in December, but exchanging it after the tourist season,  when the rate is often better.

In your opinion,  in which year has this money been remitted to Thailand?

I guess in December,  when you and the money physically arrived? 

I guess the same

[Mike Lister]

I think it's been shown yet again that this thread is too long and unwieldy to be of real value, we've reached 300 pages so new commers can't find their way through a quagmire of posts to find much that's useful.

 

My proposal is that we start four or five new threads on specific aspects that we know should be discussed and this one is closed. I appreciate this thread holds sentimental value for some but let's be realistic, it's time has passed. Legal Strategies to Reduce Thai Tax is already up and running, we might start others topics we can agree on......what say you?

[UKresonant]

1 hour ago, Lorry said:

Thx for this. 

How about bringing USD cash into Thailand,  e.g. in December, but exchanging it after the tourist season,  when the rate is often better.

In your opinion,  in which year has this money been remitted to Thailand?

I guess in December,  when you and the money physically arrived? 

If you bring it in Dec, and change it in Jan, no way to prove you brought it in Dec?  Declared at Airport if large amount?

[RupertIII]

2 hours ago, UKresonant said:

Did anyone get a steer on the inheritance question someone posted a few pages ago. Their Lawyer was saying inheritance was 100m THB or less no tax if brought in and remitted same tax year, but may be taxed if remitted in latertax years.

 

Surely it would not be taxed, it would be savings? It's not income, how would it change Categories (according to the lawyers thoughts.

 

?

My wife contacted the lawyer again but not heard back, I think this may have got confused in translation. My wife called the tax office who told her that as it was rec'd, but not remitted to Thailand, some years back would not be taxable but if remitted at any time would require documented proof of inheritance which would make sense although, as with much of this, confusion still seems to reign. The tax office did say that gains/profit made would be taxable if remitted contrary to what is stated on their website, in both English and Thai. My suggestion would be that by income they mean to refer to an inherited annuity or similar. 

[JohnnyBD]

15 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

I think it's been shown yet again that this thread is too long and unwieldy to be of real value, we've reached 300 pages so new commers can't find their way through a quagmire of posts to find much that's useful.

 

My proposal is that we start four or five new threads on specific aspects that we know should be discussed and this one is closed. I appreciate this thread holds sentimental value for some but let's be realistic, it's time has passed. Legal Strategies to Reduce Thai Tax is already up and running, we might start others topics we can agree on......what say you?

Agreed. Please start new topics and close this one. This one is too long.

[UKresonant]

15 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

I think it's been shown yet again that this thread is too long and unwieldy to be of real value, we've reached 300 pages so new commers can't find their way through a quagmire of posts to find much that's useful.

 

My proposal is that we start four or five new threads on specific aspects that we know should be discussed and this one is closed. I appreciate this thread holds sentimental value for some but let's be realistic, it's time has passed. Legal Strategies to Reduce Thai Tax is already up and running, we might start others topics we can agree on......what say you?

Yea

[Mike Lister]

We'll leave the question open overnight to give more people an opportunity to comment, but thus far it looks unanimous. Perhaps think about what new more focussed threads we ought to initiate.

[Lorry]

49 minutes ago, UKresonant said:

If you bring it in Dec, and change it in Jan, no way to prove you brought it in Dec?  Declared at Airport if large amount?

That is one possibility. 

Declare it at airport of arrival or at airport of departure. 

The simplest situation is arriving in December and not leaving until you change USD cash in January.  It's pretty obvious then that you brought this money in December. 

 

These situations will be of practical relevance for many snowbirds, who may in some years stay over 180 days in Thailand,  in other years less than 180 days. 

[UKresonant]

1 hour ago, RupertIII said:

My wife contacted the lawyer again but not heard back, I think this may have got confused in translation. My wife called the tax office who told her that as it was rec'd, but not remitted to Thailand, some years back would not be taxable but if remitted at any time would require documented proof of inheritance which would make sense although, as with much of this, confusion still seems to reign. The tax office did say that gains/profit made would be taxable if remitted contrary to what is stated on their website, in both English and Thai. My suggestion would be that by income they mean to refer to an inherited annuity or similar. 

Yes that sounds more like it.

Original remains classified as inheritance, and predetermined items transferred.

 

Taxable arising / income from whatever reference point then created. Have to watch for zero starting value for gains on stocks?

 

 

[topt]

1 hour ago, Lorry said:

These situations will be of practical relevance for many snowbirds, who may in some years stay over 180 days in Thailand,  in other years less than 180 days

Really..... Unless we are talking multi millions of baht or they are trying to claim here do you really think it is relevant to a not even regular tax resident at this point?

 

It's all very well trying to game every situation but I do think some people need to take a reality check.

[Klonko]

6 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

I think it's been shown yet again that this thread is too long and unwieldy to be of real value, we've reached 300 pages so new commers can't find their way through a quagmire of posts to find much that's useful.

 

My proposal is that we start four or five new threads on specific aspects that we know should be discussed and this one is closed. I appreciate this thread holds sentimental value for some but let's be realistic, it's time has passed. Legal Strategies to Reduce Thai Tax is already up and running, we might start others topics we can agree on......what say you?

I respectfully disagree. It is easier to follow one thread and identify posts which may be interesting for me. Further,  posts could often not be clearly assigned to a specific thread. I returned to this thread after a one week break and was quickly up to speed again.

 

For example, this thread contains a lot of UK, US and Australian specific issues which are  not relevant for me.  But the respective discussion of accounting methods and DTA entails information and ideas which can be helpful for me and which I would miss if the thread is split up.

 

For newbies, separate threads will soon have 50+ pages each and old information will practically also not be retrievable. A feasible way to provide structured access to the information buried in 300 pages is to expand the tax guide, but I do not dare to ask for such undertaking.

 

 

 

 

 

[Mike Lister]

1 hour ago, Klonko said:

I respectfully disagree. It is easier to follow one thread and identify posts which may be interesting for me. Further,  posts could often not be clearly assigned to a specific thread. I returned to this thread after a one week break and was quickly up to speed again.

 

For example, this thread contains a lot of UK, US and Australian specific issues which are  not relevant for me.  But the respective discussion of accounting methods and DTA entails information and ideas which can be helpful for me and which I would miss if the thread is split up.

 

For newbies, separate threads will soon have 50+ pages each and old information will practically also not be retrievable. A feasible way to provide structured access to the information buried in 300 pages is to expand the tax guide, but I do not dare to ask for such undertaking.

 

 

 

 

 

Your comments on the first part are noted and will be considered along with all the others.

 

Expanding the tax guide: I feel we must know our limitations, which I think we may have already exceeded in some areas. The original concept was to give others the basic and core information, but where do you draw the line? We are not attempting to be a competitor to the likes of PWC but we do want to provide answers to the core questions that most will want answers for. Perhaps I would feel differently if other members were to compile sections they had researched but for the most part that hasn't happened, a contribution from a valued member on Gift Tax was perhaps the largest single contribution.