Chomper Higgot Posted September 24, 2023 Share Posted September 24, 2023 Upsetting a major Tory donor, not a wise move Rishi: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/sep/23/major-tory-donor-says-he-will-not-back-sunak-due-to-green-u-turn-madness 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James105 Posted September 24, 2023 Share Posted September 24, 2023 Here is some perspective on how little (whatever the UK does) in this regard actually matters: The UK could go back to the stone age, ban all cars/planes/factories, reduce life expectancy to 30 years old and it still wouldn't make hardly any difference. https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions#co2-emissions-by-region Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted September 24, 2023 Share Posted September 24, 2023 20 minutes ago, James105 said: Here is some perspective on how little (whatever the UK does) in this regard actually matters: The UK could go back to the stone age, ban all cars/planes/factories, reduce life expectancy to 30 years old and it still wouldn't make hardly any difference. https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions#co2-emissions-by-region So you accept yet another example of the UK relinquishing any kind of moral authority on the world stage? While ignoring investment in green technologies: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/NEW-INVESTMENT-IN-RENEWABLE-ENERGY-BY-COUNTRY-AND-ASSET-CLASS-2016-AND-GROWTH-ON-2015_fig8_318987792 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve187 Posted September 24, 2023 Share Posted September 24, 2023 On 9/20/2023 at 9:10 AM, Chomper Higgot said: Nobody voted for Sunak to be PM. Insulation, heat pumps and more efficient gas boilers are cutting people’s energy bills. the British public never vote for the PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_smith237 Posted September 24, 2023 Share Posted September 24, 2023 Just now, steve187 said: On 9/20/2023 at 5:10 AM, Chomper Higgot said: Nobody voted for Sunak to be PM. Insulation, heat pumps and more efficient gas boilers are cutting people’s energy bills. the British public never vote for the PM. Technically no... However, every voter knows who the leader of the party of the constituent MP they are voting for is.... and this will influence their decision. Thus - the British Public do also vote for the PM in a round about way. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_smith237 Posted September 24, 2023 Share Posted September 24, 2023 38 minutes ago, James105 said: Here is some perspective on how little (whatever the UK does) in this regard actually matters: The UK could go back to the stone age, ban all cars/planes/factories, reduce life expectancy to 30 years old and it still wouldn't make hardly any difference. https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions#co2-emissions-by-region Exactly... and while the nation (UK) places a financial chokehold on itself it achieves insignificant environmental gains. Everyone wants cheap, buys from China, China's economy booms, Chinese businesses infiltrate our countries, China takes over, China is laughing as they bank more power while refusing to kneecap itself in the same manner the West has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve187 Posted September 24, 2023 Share Posted September 24, 2023 1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said: Technically no... However, every voter knows who the leader of the party of the constituent MP they are voting for is.... and this will influence their decision. Thus - the British Public do also vote for the PM in a round about way. but they change like the weather Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted September 24, 2023 Share Posted September 24, 2023 2 hours ago, steve187 said: the British public never vote for the PM. No, but they vote for a party in the knowledge of who the PM is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youreavinalaff Posted September 24, 2023 Share Posted September 24, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said: No, but they vote for a party in the knowledge of who the PM is. Correct. Whatever party one votes for in the next election, everyone knows, or should know, that Rishi Sunak is PM. Edited September 24, 2023 by youreavinalaff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted September 24, 2023 Share Posted September 24, 2023 28 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said: Correct. Whatever party one votes for in the next election, everyone knows, or should know, that Rishi Sunak is PM. Well he is at the moment. But there’s something else, parties are elected on their manifesto. People who voted Tory voted for the party manifesto, regardless of who eventually gets to be PM. Sunak is performing multiple U-Turns on the manifesto on which the Tories were elected. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youreavinalaff Posted September 24, 2023 Share Posted September 24, 2023 1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said: Well he is at the moment. But there’s something else, parties are elected on their manifesto. People who voted Tory voted for the party manifesto, regardless of who eventually gets to be PM. Sunak is performing multiple U-Turns on the manifesto on which the Tories were elected. I doubt many voters vote entirely because of manifesto. There are a lot of other reasons people vote the way they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinny41 Posted September 24, 2023 Share Posted September 24, 2023 1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said: Well he is at the moment. But there’s something else, parties are elected on their manifesto. People who voted Tory voted for the party manifesto, regardless of who eventually gets to be PM. Sunak is performing multiple U-Turns on the manifesto on which the Tories were elected. I don't think people take much notice of the manifesto they tend to look at the alternatives if you don't vote tory In the 2019 election the alternatives were 1) Jo Swinson - Cancel Brexit 2) Jeremy Corbyn The Tory could have had a blank manifesto and people would have still voted for them if it meant stopping Jo and Jeremy entering no 10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 8 hours ago, youreavinalaff said: I doubt many voters vote entirely because of manifesto. There are a lot of other reasons people vote the way they do. Yes some people will always vote for a political party, others might vote because they fancy the candidate, or despise the opposition candidate. Nevertheless, political parties stand for election on the basis of their manifesto. The Salisbury-Addison Convention is founded on the principle that the Government’s manifesto has been given legitimacy by voters and hence shall not be challenged by the House of Lords. Sunak is setting up for yet another U-Turn over H2S to Manchester and with it another abandonment of ‘Leveling Up’. A double U-turn and betrayal of those ‘borrowed red wall votes’. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 9 hours ago, vinny41 said: I don't think people take much notice of the manifesto they tend to look at the alternatives if you don't vote tory In the 2019 election the alternatives were 1) Jo Swinson - Cancel Brexit 2) Jeremy Corbyn The Tory could have had a blank manifesto and people would have still voted for them if it meant stopping Jo and Jeremy entering no 10 Regardless, the Government’s manifesto is what provides legitimacy to Government policies, refer above. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinny41 Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said: Regardless, the Government’s manifesto is what provides legitimacy to Government policies, refer above. I am not aware of any Law that states that can you provide a link please thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chomper Higgot Posted September 25, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted September 25, 2023 29 minutes ago, vinny41 said: I am not aware of any Law that states that can you provide a link please thanks It’s not a law is the Salisbury-Addison Convention, as I stated earlier. It never ceases to amaze me how little folk know about how their own Government functions. Perhaps past time for the UK to introduce Civics as a mandatory lesson in schools. https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201719/ldselect/ldconst/28/2804.htm 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youreavinalaff Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said: It’s not a law is the Salisbury-Addison Convention, as I stated earlier. It never ceases to amaze me how little folk know about how their own Government functions. Perhaps past time for the UK to introduce Civics as a mandatory lesson in schools. https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201719/ldselect/ldconst/28/2804.htm Anyone can hide behind the use of the internet and pretend to know it all. Others have better things to do. Edited September 25, 2023 by youreavinalaff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 8 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said: Anyone can hide behind the use of the internet and pretend to know it all. Others have better things to do. Oh look, another personal attack. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youreavinalaff Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 Just now, Chomper Higgot said: Oh look, another personal attack. No. Sorry, but it's not all about you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 2 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said: No. Sorry, but it's not all about you. Indeed it is not. Feel free to get back on topic and off personal attacks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youreavinalaff Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 8 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said: Indeed it is not. Feel free to get back on topic and off personal attacks. I'm quoting existing posts. I cannot be off topic unless........ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinny41 Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 23 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said: It’s not a law is the Salisbury-Addison Convention, as I stated earlier. It never ceases to amaze me how little folk know about how their own Government functions. Perhaps past time for the UK to introduce Civics as a mandatory lesson in schools. https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201719/ldselect/ldconst/28/2804.htm so not law attached more of a agreement between tories and labour as shown from your link It did not involve either the Liberals or unaligned Peers. We therefore reiterate that we have not felt bound by this convention, as we were not party to it. and shown here Liberal Democrat dissent in 2005[edit] After the Labour general election victory in 2005, the Liberal Democrats indicated that they did not feel bound by the Salisbury Convention as a result of decreasing voter turnout, the low share of the vote received by the Government, and the changes to the composition of the House of Lords introduced in 1999 by the Labour Government.[7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salisbury_Convention#:~:text Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 1 minute ago, vinny41 said: so not law attached more of a agreement between tories and labour as shown from your link It did not involve either the Liberals or unaligned Peers. We therefore reiterate that we have not felt bound by this convention, as we were not party to it. and shown here Liberal Democrat dissent in 2005[edit] After the Labour general election victory in 2005, the Liberal Democrats indicated that they did not feel bound by the Salisbury Convention as a result of decreasing voter turnout, the low share of the vote received by the Government, and the changes to the composition of the House of Lords introduced in 1999 by the Labour Government.[7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salisbury_Convention#:~:text Strawman alert, I never said it was a law. And no not an agreement between Tories and Labour but a long standing Convention between the House of Lords and the Government of the day. The Liberal Democrats, who have never won an election, might not wish to be bound by the S-A Convention, but it’s not for them them to implement, it is implemented by The House of Lords in deference to the elected Government’s Manifesto. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinny41 Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 10 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said: Strawman alert, I never said it was a law. And no not an agreement between Tories and Labour but a long standing Convention between the House of Lords and the Government of the day. The Liberal Democrats, who have never won an election, might not wish to be bound by the S-A Convention, but it’s not for them them to implement, it is implemented by The House of Lords in deference to the elected Government’s Manifesto. Keir Starmer: I will abolish House of Lords to ‘restore trust in politics https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/19/keir-starmer-i-will-abolish-house-of-lords-to-restore-trust-in-politics Looks like House of Lords days are numbered if Labour win next General Election Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 1 hour ago, vinny41 said: Keir Starmer: I will abolish House of Lords to ‘restore trust in politics https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/19/keir-starmer-i-will-abolish-house-of-lords-to-restore-trust-in-politics Looks like House of Lords days are numbered if Labour win next General Election Maybe they are, maybe they are not. Meanwhile Rishi is U-turning again and shedding more Tory donors: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/sep/24/tory-donor-threatens-pull-funding-sunak-scraps-northern-hs2-rail-line 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackGats Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 Meeting emission objectives = closing our 2 last coal power plants while China connects a new one to the grid EVERY MONTH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinny41 Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 23 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said: Maybe they are, maybe they are not. Meanwhile Rishi is U-turning again and shedding more Tory donors: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/sep/24/tory-donor-threatens-pull-funding-sunak-scraps-northern-hs2-rail-line Maybe Rishi is catching the U turn bug from the King of U Turns Keir Starmer What are the main U-turns Labour has made under Keir Starmer? https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jul/04/u-turns-labour-keir-starmer-tuition-fees-income-tax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 31 minutes ago, vinny41 said: Maybe Rishi is catching the U turn bug from the King of U Turns Keir Starmer What are the main U-turns Labour has made under Keir Starmer? https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jul/04/u-turns-labour-keir-starmer-tuition-fees-income-tax A bit of a false equivalence. Starmer hasn’t written any policy commitments into a Manifesto, presented it to the electorate and win an election on that manifesto. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 33 minutes ago, JackGats said: Meeting emission objectives = closing our 2 last coal power plants while China connects a new one to the grid EVERY MONTH. More whataboutary. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinny41 Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said: A bit of a false equivalence. Starmer hasn’t written any policy commitments into a Manifesto, presented it to the electorate and win an election on that manifesto. You mean he wasn't aware of the 2019 Labour manifesto It must have been an interesting campaign in his Constituency when Labour presented the 2019 manifesto, next you will be telling us that he said nothing to do with me guv I didn't write any of the policy commitments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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