Members Choice Employers lose migrant workers fleeing Florida’s draconian law.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

The idea of illegal immigrants doing the "stoop labour", as another poster put it, is a myth. They make up less than a third of agricultural workers in the US, and far less in other kinds of labour. There are millions of Americans who are choosing to sit on the sidelines and collect a cheque from Uncle Sugar. They need to be given incentive to get back into the workforce. 

I'm probably the "stoop labour" poster you are referring to.  I use the term because I did stoop labor in a tobacco field in August in the deep south when I was 12.  I also pushed a shovel in a lime kiln in a pulp wood mill in my home town when I was 18.  I'd rather go back to the lime kiln than the tobacco field, even though the lime dust ate holes in my skin.

 

I have a great deal of respect for people who will work that hard for an honest living.  I also know that the limited number of young people in rural areas no longer do that kind of work because they can get easier jobs that pay better.  We need immigrants.

[Hanaguma]

4 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Harvesting grains (the food we eat too much of) is largely mechanized.  Harvesting fruits and vegetables (the food we don't eat enough of) is labor intensive.  You want to make the healthy food significantly more expensive.

 

 

You think five bucks a month for a family is "significantly more expensive"?  Biden has already spent a thousand dollars per family in America on the war in Ukraine.  Which do you think is more important?

[heybruce]

11 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Hmm ... 

... the law makes it hard for criminal to live in the state

... the law makes employers offer a decent wage to those law abiding USA citizens that need, want to work at a fair salary.

 

Law was passed by and for USA citizens of FL for 'their' protection.

 

Maybe we should ignore all the gun & drug laws.   Oh wait, I think many states have, and how has that turned out?

 

Maybe FL can lower the price of goods stolen to be considered a felony, down to a misdemeanor.   How's that worked out California and other states?

 

If you don't want to enforce the laws, don't make them or repeal them.

 

Apparently those that care & vote, like it just the way it is.  If you don't live in FL, why do you care?

Did you read the OP?  It's about people who do care and do vote, but didn't consider the consequences of their votes.  It's not about guns, drugs or theft.

[heybruce]

1 minute ago, Sticky Rice Balls said:

weak minds are easily misled as the GOP playbook of fear politics feeds the cult of hate-racism

Save me from the illegal immigrants!  But not until they finish this work I need done.

[heybruce]

5 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

You think five bucks a month for a family is "significantly more expensive"?  Biden has already spent a thousand dollars per family in America on the war in Ukraine.  Which do you think is more important?

Once again, use sources.

 

Where did you get "five bucks" from?

[Hanaguma]

7 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Once again, use sources.

 

Where did you get "five bucks" from?

From my previous link;

 

https://www.epi.org/blog/how-much-would-it-cost-consumers-to-give-farmworkers-a-significant-raise-a-40-increase-in-pay-would-cost-just-25-per-household/

 

It says that a 40% increase in pay would cost 25 bucks per household. Therefore to double pay would cost 60 bucks, which means 5 dollars a month. Follow? 

 

The same place that says labor costs for all fresh fruit/veg amounts to about 10% of the retail cost to consumers. So doubling the pay for all workers would increase the cost by 10%, or the above $60 per year per family.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

32 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Hmm ... 

... the law makes it hard for criminal to live in the state

... the law makes employers offer a decent wage to those law abiding USA citizens that need, want to work at a fair salary.

 

Law was passed by and for USA citizens of FL for 'their' protection.

 

Maybe we should ignore all the gun & drug laws.   Oh wait, I think many states have, and how has that turned out?

 

Maybe FL can lower the price of goods stolen to be considered a felony, down to a misdemeanor.   How's that worked out California and other states?

 

If you don't want to enforce the laws, don't make them or repeal them.

 

Apparently those that care & vote, like it just the way it is.  If you don't live in FL, why do you care?

The targets the people doing the hard grunt work.

 

So they go to hard grunt work somewhere else.

 

Floriduh loses.

[Hanaguma]

9 minutes ago, Sticky Rice Balls said:

as for me in hospitality field look whos cleaning the rooms and such.....also go to any 5 star kitchen in NYC and guess whos in the back doing all the prep while the Chef strolls about in his chef coat....as some Exc Chef jobs seek those that can speak spanish.....Hola Amigos! Ondelay!

 

You have the cute white girls at front desk and cafes but all the hard work in going on in the back of the house--out of sight of diners dropping $$$$...yep its me and my hombres cooking

 

my buddy runs a landscaping business and contracting gigs...guess whos in his crew...yep, as hes now asking ME when ill be back home..he wont elaborate but i know what he wants.....workers

Really? This link says that only 10% of restaurant workers are undocumented...

 

https://www.foodandwine.com/fwpro/prioritize-undocumented-restaurant-workers-vaccine-coronavirus

 

Pew Research says that 13% of construction workers and 21% of landscapers are illegal immigrants...

https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2016/11/03/industries-of-unauthorized-immigrant-workers/

 

So, that means that 90% of restaurant workers, 87% of construction workers, and 80% of landscapers are either American citizens or legal residents.  

 

[candide]

27 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Yes, like I said, there is a difference between legal visa holders/immgrants and illegal workers. It is a very important distinction.  The latter are much more vulnerable to exploitation and can easily fall through the cracks. But I was not wrong in my statement, as you asserted. Something like a third of ag workers are illegal immigrants.

Ok. However, a significant share of the current legal immigrants have started as illegal immigrants before being regularized.

[KhunLA]

9 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The targets the people doing the hard grunt work.

 

So they go to hard grunt work somewhere else.

 

Floriduh loses.

Not the Floridians who want & need a job, at a decent wage.

 

31 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Did you read the OP?  It's about people who do care and do vote, but didn't consider the consequences of their votes.  It's not about guns, drugs or theft.

It's nothing but a DeSantis hit piece, and vague attempt to justify illegal immigrants and the employer who hire them.

 

From a writer who's claim to fame is a Pulitzer, from coverage when the FL/USA tried to take a kid away from his Cuban father, and failed miserably.

[3NUMBAS]

voters in houston are peed off with numbers and crime is getting bad in houston where they fear to walk the streets 

8000 across the river and none were turned back ,security has collapsed

[heybruce]

53 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

From my previous link;

 

https://www.epi.org/blog/how-much-would-it-cost-consumers-to-give-farmworkers-a-significant-raise-a-40-increase-in-pay-would-cost-just-25-per-household/

 

It says that a 40% increase in pay would cost 25 bucks per household. Therefore to double pay would cost 60 bucks, which means 5 dollars a month. Follow? 

 

The same place that says labor costs for all fresh fruit/veg amounts to about 10% of the retail cost to consumers. So doubling the pay for all workers would increase the cost by 10%, or the above $60 per year per family.

 

I'm not sure the supply chain from farm to table would agree with or accommodate their math.  Regardless, nowhere does it say that this hypothetical pay increase would affect immigration.

[heybruce]

36 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Not the Floridians who want & need a job, at a decent wage.

 

It's nothing but a DeSantis hit piece, and vague attempt to justify illegal immigrants and the employer who hire them.

 

From a writer who's claim to fame is a Pulitzer, from coverage when the FL/USA tried to take a kid away from his Cuban father, and failed miserably.

The evidence may be anecdotal, but it is credible.  Can you refute any of it?

 

As far as the story being a "DeSantis hit piece", it factually reports what DeSantis' anti-immigrant laws are doing and their effect on people.   The effect is notable on those people who never thought that voting for an anti-immigrant leader would keep them from hiring illegal immigrants.

 

BTW:  Unemployment in Florida is 2.6%.  https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FLUR  Everybody who wants to work is working, immigrants aren't taking jobs from anyone.

[KhunLA]

15 minutes ago, heybruce said:

The evidence may be anecdotal, but it is credible.  Can you refute any of it?

 

As far as the story being a "DeSantis hit piece", it factually reports what DeSantis' anti-immigrant laws are doing and their effect on people.   The effect is notable on those people who never thought that voting for an anti-immigrant leader would keep them from hiring illegal immigrants.

 

BTW:  Unemployment in Florida is 2.6%.  https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FLUR  Everybody who wants to work is working, immigrants aren't taking jobs from anyone.

So they were hoping they could continue to break the law ... hmm

 

And 2.6% of 33% of the FL population is almost 200k people, not working ... hmm

 

(I figure 1/3 too young to work, the other 1/3 to old)

[heybruce]

25 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

So they were hoping they could continue to break the law ... hmm

 

And 2.6% of 33% of the FL population is almost 200k people, not working ... hmm

 

(I figure 1/3 too young to work, the other 1/3 to old)

Yes, DeSantis voters were assuming they could continue to break the law, and now they're p.o.'d because they can't.  The wanted DeSantis to be more like Trump, someone who talks trash about immigrants but hires them illegally.

 

How many of those 2.6% do you think are unemployed because they left one job (a lot of seasonal jobs in Florida with seasonal hiring and firing)?  How many can't find a job because they have a criminal record (the US has a remarkably high incarceration rate)? 

 

2.6% is a remarkably low unemployment rate.  Jobs, especially skilled jobs, are not being filled because there are not enough candidates.

 

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by heybruce