Popular Post Eleftheros Posted September 23, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted September 23, 2023 After 3 years of obfuscation, mis-statements, deflections, and cancellations, the US government has given its clearest signal that dodgy work at the US-funded Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) was likely to have caused the Covid-19 virus outbreak. In very strong language for a government communique, the Department of Health & Human Services issued a Notice of Suspension and Notice of Proposed Debarment directly to WIV director-general Dr Yanyi Wang, noting: Quote "In summary, the NIH determined that WIV may have conducted an experiment yielding a level of viral activity which was greater than permitted under the terms of the grant. ... WIV conducted an experiment that violated the terms of the grant regarding viral activity, which possibly did lead or could lead to health issues or other unacceptable outcomes." "NIH's conclusion that WIV likely violated protocols of the NIH regarding biosafety is undisputed." As the saying goes, the difference between a conspiracy theory and the truth is about 18 months. This one took a little longer. At least we don't have to call it a "pandemic" any more, it's just an "unacceptable outcome". 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
save the frogs Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 damn obfuscation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneMoreFarang Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 It would almost be funny if it wouldn't be so serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 4 hours ago, Eleftheros said: the US government has given its clearest signal that dodgy work at the US-funded Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) was likely to have caused the Covid-19 virus outbreak. The HHS letter you linked to above makes absolutely no mention of the coronavirus outbreak or anything specific regarding any causal role of WIV in it. The rest is just unfounded speculation on your part, as usual. There remain divided views among both federal agencies and the scientific community on the origins of the pandemic, with the scientific community especially leaning more in the direction of a natural cause. The HHS action re WIV doesn't change that, especially given that a good part of the rationale for the HHS's action was WIV's refusal to cooperate in the inquiry and provide requested documentation. Newly declassified report shows U.S. intelligence community remains divided over likely origin of Covid June 24, 2023 "A long-anticipated government report on the origins of Covid-19 offered new details on the U.S. intelligence community’s findings but did not state definitively whether the source of the coronavirus was exposure to an infected animal or an event at a laboratory. ... “All agencies continue to assess that both a natural and laboratory-associated origin remain plausible hypotheses to explain the first human infection,” the Office of the Director of National Intelligence said Friday in a 10-page declassified report. ... While the National Intelligence Council and four unnamed agencies assessed that natural exposure to an infected animal was the most likely scenario for the first human infection, the Department of Energy and FBI’s assessment was that a laboratory-associated incident was more likely the cause." https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/us-intelligence-agencies-remain-divided-likely-covid-origin-rcna90914 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rattlesnake Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 Just now, TallGuyJohninBKK said: The HHS letter you linked to above makes absolutely no mention of the coronavirus outbreak or anything specific regarding any causal role of WIV in it. The rest is just unfounded speculation on your part, as usual. There remain divided views among both federal agencies and the scientific community on the origins of the pandemic, with the scientific community especially leaning more in the direction of a natural cause. The HHS action re WIV doesn't change that, especially given that a good part of the rationale for the HHS's action was WIV's refusal to cooperate in the inquiry and provide requested documentation. Newly declassified report shows U.S. intelligence community remains divided over likely origin of Covid June 24, 2023 "A long-anticipated government report on the origins of Covid-19 offered new details on the U.S. intelligence community’s findings but did not state definitively whether the source of the coronavirus was exposure to an infected animal or an event at a laboratory. ... “All agencies continue to assess that both a natural and laboratory-associated origin remain plausible hypotheses to explain the first human infection,” the Office of the Director of National Intelligence said Friday in a 10-page declassified report. ... While the National Intelligence Council and four unnamed agencies assessed that natural exposure to an infected animal was the most likely scenario for the first human infection, the Department of Energy and FBI’s assessment was that a laboratory-associated incident was more likely the cause." https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/us-intelligence-agencies-remain-divided-likely-covid-origin-rcna90914 "Divided views", what a nice euphemism! We've come a long way, I remember very well when those who challenged the official narrative on the natural origin were called nutcase conspiracy theorists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 (edited) Actual scientists with expertise in the field lean more toward the natural cause theory, unlike right-wing Republican politicians who have been drum-beating on the issue but have no expertise (or credibility) on the issue whatsoever. What does the science say about the origin of the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic? February 28, 2023 "Virologists who study pandemic origins are much less divided than the U.S. intelligence community. They say there is "very convincing" data and "overwhelming evidence" pointing to an animal origin. In particular, scientists published two extensive, peer-reviewed papers in Science in July 2022, offering the strongest evidence to date that the COVID-19 pandemic originated in animals at a market in Wuhan, China." https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2023/02/28/1160162845/what-does-the-science-say-about-the-origin-of-the-sars-cov-2-pandemic Edited September 23, 2023 by TallGuyJohninBKK 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 5 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said: Actual scientists with expertise in the field lean more toward the natural cause theory, unlike right-wing Republican politicians who have been drum-beating on the issue but have no expertise (or credibility) on the issue whatsoever. What does the science say about the origin of the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic? February 28, 2023 "Virologists who study pandemic origins are much less divided than the U.S. intelligence community. They say there is "very convincing" data and "overwhelming evidence" pointing to an animal origin. In particular, scientists published two extensive, peer-reviewed papers in Science in July 2022, offering the strongest evidence to date that the COVID-19 pandemic originated in animals at a market in Wuhan, China." https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2023/02/28/1160162845/what-does-the-science-say-about-the-origin-of-the-sars-cov-2-pandemic How far away from the Wuhan institute if virology , where they experiment on virus's like Covid 19 was that Wuhan animals market ? What was the distance between the market and the institute ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 6 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: How far away from the Wuhan institute if virology , where they experiment on virus's like Covid 19 was that Wuhan animals market ? What was the distance between the market and the institute ? New England Journal of Medicine: June 22, 2023 "Proponents of the accidental laboratory leak theory stress the geographic location of the WIV in the city where the pandemic began. They point to the presence of the bat coronavirus RaTG13 strain at the laboratory, arguing that genetic manipulations such as gain-of-function (GOF) research may have produced SARS-CoV-2. Most scientists refute this theory because there is considerable evolutionary distance between the two viruses." The Origins of Covid-19 — Why It Matters (and Why It Doesn’t) https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2305081 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 30 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said: New England Journal of Medicine: June 22, 2023 "Proponents of the accidental laboratory leak theory stress the geographic location of the WIV in the city where the pandemic began. They point to the presence of the bat coronavirus RaTG13 strain at the laboratory, arguing that genetic manipulations such as gain-of-function (GOF) research may have produced SARS-CoV-2. Most scientists refute this theory because there is considerable evolutionary distance between the two viruses." The Origins of Covid-19 — Why It Matters (and Why It Doesn’t) https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2305081 If you are going to reply to me, you should at least answer my question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: If you are going to reply to me, you should at least answer my question "Most scientists refute this theory because there is considerable evolutionary distance between the two viruses." That kinda makes the physical distance issue irrelevant, at least in terms of the COVID lab leak theory, given the substantial divergence between the bat virus in the lab and the virus that ended up as COVID. Edited September 23, 2023 by TallGuyJohninBKK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said: "Most scientists refute this theory because there is considerable evolutionary distance between the two viruses." That kinda makes the distance issue irrelevant. Do you believe everything you are told without questioning it or being a bit suspicious that some people may not be being completely truthful 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoDisplayName Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said: The HHS letter you linked to above makes absolutely no mention of the coronavirus outbreak or anything specific regarding any causal role of WIV in it. The rest is just unfounded speculation on your part, as usual. There remain divided views among both federal agencies and the scientific community on the origins of the pandemic, with the scientific community especially leaning more in the direction of a natural cause. The HHS action re WIV doesn't change that, especially given that a good part of the rationale for the HHS's action was WIV's refusal to cooperate in the inquiry and provide requested documentation. Newly declassified report shows U.S. intelligence community remains divided over likely origin of Covid June 24, 2023 "A long-anticipated government report on the origins of Covid-19 offered new details on the U.S. intelligence community’s findings but did not state definitively whether the source of the coronavirus was exposure to an infected animal or an event at a laboratory. ... “All agencies continue to assess that both a natural and laboratory-associated origin remain plausible hypotheses to explain the first human infection,” the Office of the Director of National Intelligence said Friday in a 10-page declassified report. ... While the National Intelligence Council and four unnamed agencies assessed that natural exposure to an infected animal was the most likely scenario for the first human infection, the Department of Energy and FBI’s assessment was that a laboratory-associated incident was more likely the cause." https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/us-intelligence-agencies-remain-divided-likely-covid-origin-rcna90914 Gosh, another government report about the covids! This must be serious! 5 intel agencies say most likely zoonotic origin, two say can't make a determination, and two say the lab leak was the most likely origin. Those last two are the most concerning, "the Department of Energy and FBI’s assessment was that a laboratory-associated incident was more likely the cause." But how, ummmm............confident........are they? That's odd, nothing in the article. What does Mr. Googles have to say? Oh, here it is! Quote WASHINGTON — The Energy Department concluded with "low confidence" that the Covid-19 pandemic "likely" originated from a laboratory leak in Wuhan, China, according to a classified report delivered to key lawmakers on the House and Senate Intelligence committees, two sources with direct knowledge told NBC News. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/us-energy-department-assesses-low-confidence-covid-may-originated-chin-rcna72378 Low confidence? Why didn't the linked article tell us that? Quote Low confidence generally means questionable or implausible information was used, the information is too fragmented or poorly corroborated to make solid analytic inferences, or significant concerns or problems with sources existed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analytic_confidence Oh, I see. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: Do you believe everything you are told without questioning it or being a bit suspicious that some people may not be being completely truthful You mean like the Republican right-wingers in Congress? For me, I like to weigh the actual evidence and the varying opinions of actual experts on the issues of what to make of that evidence.... something the Republican conspiracy theorists on this issue seem to avoid like the plague. "All U.S. intelligence agencies rejected the allegation that participants in a clandestine Chinese biologic weapons program intentionally developed SARS-CoV-2. Yet a report issued in mid-December 2022 by Republican members of the House of Representatives still credited that theory." https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2305081 Edited September 23, 2023 by TallGuyJohninBKK 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 Just now, TallGuyJohninBKK said: I like the weigh the actual evidence and the varying opinions of actual experts on the issues of what to make of that evidence.... something the Republican conspiracy theorists on this issue seem to avoid like the plague. "All U.S. intelligence agencies rejected the allegation that participants in a clandestine Chinese biologic weapons program intentionally developed SARS-CoV-2. Yet a report issued in mid-December 2022 by Republican members of the House of Representatives still credited that theory." https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2305081 You could try to forget about Republicans or a while , not everything revolves around what they think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: You could try to forget about Republicans or a while , not everything revolves around what they think When it comes to COVID conspiracy theories of all sorts, they're at or near the top of the heap, and various members here are continually echoing their spurious, unsubstantiated claims, as with the OP in this thread. Edited September 23, 2023 by TallGuyJohninBKK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said: When it comes to COVID conspiracy theories of all sorts, they're at or near the top of the heap. If you are looking for a Republican to have a fight with, well I am sorry but I am not one of them, you will have to find someone else to argue with 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgw Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said: "Most scientists refute this theory because there is considerable evolutionary distance between the two viruses." That kinda makes the physical distance issue irrelevant, at least in terms of the COVID lab leak theory, given the substantial divergence between the bat virus in the lab and the virus that ended up as COVID. I have written quite extensively on the subject a bit more than a year ago - I am of the opinion that the virus is of animal origin and leaked from another lab in Wuhan. Maybe it's the virus that decimated Chinese mink farm populations in 2019. Coronaviruses have a history of escaping labs very easily and Wuhan concentrates 25% of the whole country's bio labs, for Universities, Veterinary Institutes, Disease Control, Ministry for Agriculture, Virology, etc. A lot of the main labs, central analysis facilities are in Wuhan. Typically samples of a virus collected in a mink farm would be examined in a level 2 lab, probably by students. So it's occam's razor: - virus possibly breaks out in mink farms, infects humans and infects back minks - virus sample is taken - sample is sent to Wuhan for analysis (no surprise, most national veterinary virology facilities are in Wuhan) - lab is probably level 2, low safety procedures - virus escapes lab (coronaviruses escaping labs is a common occurrence, especially when as contagious as this one) - result: COVID of course Chinese authorities wanted to hide their responsibility Edited September 23, 2023 by tgw 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impulse Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 5 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said: Newly declassified report shows U.S. intelligence community remains divided over likely origin of Covid Is that the same intelligence community that pinkie swore promised that the laptop was a Russian concoction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 28 minutes ago, impulse said: Is that the same intelligence community that pinkie swore promised that the laptop was a Russian concoction? it isn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinnieK Posted September 24, 2023 Share Posted September 24, 2023 They won't be ...errr....cough cough....'funding' it anymore.. Not that they were funding it for years prior to the COVID outbreak of course. That would be a conspiracy.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarstoolChang Posted September 24, 2023 Share Posted September 24, 2023 9 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said: The HHS letter you linked to above makes absolutely no mention of the coronavirus outbreak or anything specific regarding any causal role of WIV in it. The rest is just unfounded speculation on your part, as usual. There remain divided views among both federal agencies and the scientific community on the origins of the pandemic, with the scientific community especially leaning more in the direction of a natural cause. The HHS action re WIV doesn't change that, especially given that a good part of the rationale for the HHS's action was WIV's refusal to cooperate in the inquiry and provide requested documentation. Newly declassified report shows U.S. intelligence community remains divided over likely origin of Covid June 24, 2023 "A long-anticipated government report on the origins of Covid-19 offered new details on the U.S. intelligence community’s findings but did not state definitively whether the source of the coronavirus was exposure to an infected animal or an event at a laboratory. ... “All agencies continue to assess that both a natural and laboratory-associated origin remain plausible hypotheses to explain the first human infection,” the Office of the Director of National Intelligence said Friday in a 10-page declassified report. ... While the National Intelligence Council and four unnamed agencies assessed that natural exposure to an infected animal was the most likely scenario for the first human infection, the Department of Energy and FBI’s assessment was that a laboratory-associated incident was more likely the cause." https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/us-intelligence-agencies-remain-divided-likely-covid-origin-rcna90914 It's time for your 6th booster shot, John. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted September 24, 2023 Share Posted September 24, 2023 Just now, BarstoolChang said: It's time for your 6th booster shot, John. Mine too, do you know where I can get one in Pattaya? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BenStark Posted September 24, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted September 24, 2023 8 minutes ago, ozimoron said: Mine too, do you know where I can get one in Pattaya? And don't forget to get some new stock of the 7-layer masks, and wearing them when you are alone in the room, or are you more advanced yet? https://www.fgear.in/products/copy-of-f-gear-pearl-f95-mask-grey-pack-of-1-safeguard-7-layer-iso-ce-sitra-lab-certified-95-bacteria-filtration-1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted September 24, 2023 Share Posted September 24, 2023 Just now, BenStark said: And don't forget to get some new stock of the 7-layer masks, and wearing them when you are alone in the room, or are you more advanced yet? https://www.fgear.in/products/copy-of-f-gear-pearl-f95-mask-grey-pack-of-1-safeguard-7-layer-iso-ce-sitra-lab-certified-95-bacteria-filtration-1 I think you probably sit there and imagine a lot of things. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenStark Posted September 24, 2023 Share Posted September 24, 2023 1 minute ago, ozimoron said: I think you probably sit there and imagine a lot of things. Just the opposite 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted September 24, 2023 Share Posted September 24, 2023 1 minute ago, BenStark said: Just the opposite Let me think. What did I accuse you personally of? That's right, nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenStark Posted September 24, 2023 Share Posted September 24, 2023 1 minute ago, ozimoron said: Let me think. What did I accuse you personally of? That's right, nothing. A that so much loved word by the extreme wokes. Nothing, you have nothing. You accused me of sitting there imagining a lot of things. Well, to say the least, I don't imagine that I need a 6th booster, because otherwise I may die from the next covid variant 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted September 24, 2023 Share Posted September 24, 2023 2 minutes ago, BenStark said: A that so much loved word by the extreme wokes. Nothing, you have nothing. You accused me of sitting there imagining a lot of things. Well, to say the least, I don't imagine that I need a 6th booster, because otherwise I may die from the next covid variant I don';t imagine it either. A medical expert somewhere recommended it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleftheros Posted September 24, 2023 Author Share Posted September 24, 2023 11 minutes ago, ozimoron said: I don';t imagine it either. A medical expert somewhere recommended it. I think it was Rachel Maddow on MSNBC.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted September 24, 2023 Share Posted September 24, 2023 6 minutes ago, Eleftheros said: I think it was Rachel Maddow on MSNBC.. Nah, I think his name started with an F. Kind of Italian sounding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now