Every Hamas member is a dead man, Netanyahu says

[Morch]

12 minutes ago, RanongCat said:

Can you say that with a straight  face?  Israel had long ghettoized the Ghaza and imposed itself as unaccountable "wardens" and  retaliating to relatively  minor resistances with gross violence and persecution in territory not their own. Disgustingly sanctioned by UN deliberate blindness dictated  by US dictate to comply.

 

 

 

So, you're not actually addressing points made, but simply ranting?

 

The blockade and other restrictions on the Gaza Strip were not always there. They came about following Palestinian actions, and more specifically Hamas's. You want to ignore that fact, go right ahead. Similarly, the blockade is indeed maintained by Egypt as well - which could easily undo it. So not just an Israeli thing. Ignore that as well, if you will.

 

Relatively minor in your mind, is what any average government would not put up with. What happened a few days ago, goes way way beyond this, even.

 

The froth muddled the last bit of your post, couldn't quite understand who exactly you're riling against.

[The Theory]

24 minutes ago, RanongCat said:

Can you say that with a straight  face?

 

 

 

Say what ?!!! ????

What I believe is Mossad perhaps is one of the best intelligence services in the world. You guess the rest. 

[proton]

8 minutes ago, Morch said:

So, you're not actually addressing points made, but simply ranting?

 

The blockade and other restrictions on the Gaza Strip were not always there. They came about following Palestinian actions, and more specifically Hamas's. You want to ignore that fact, go right ahead. Similarly, the blockade is indeed maintained by Egypt as well - which could easily undo it. So not just an Israeli thing. Ignore that as well, if you will.

 

Relatively minor in your mind, is what any average government would not put up with. What happened a few days ago, goes way way beyond this, even.

 

The froth muddled the last bit of your post, couldn't quite understand who exactly you're riling against.

Many of the 'free Palestine, apartheid Israel, zionist oppressors and Palestinian land was stolen' brigade appear to know plenty of slogans, a lot of untruths, and very little actual history. Thanks for putting some of them right.

[RanongCat]

31 minutes ago, Morch said:

So, you're not actually addressing points made, but simply ranting?

 

The blockade and other restrictions on the Gaza Strip were not always there. They came about following Palestinian actions, and more specifically Hamas's. You want to ignore that fact, go right ahead. Similarly, the blockade is indeed maintained by Egypt as well - which could easily undo it. So not just an Israeli thing. Ignore that as well, if you will.

 

Relatively minor in your mind, is what any average government would not put up with. What happened a few days ago, goes way way beyond this, even.

 

The froth muddled the last bit of your post, couldn't quite understand who exactly you're riling against.

You contrive a negative interpretation and determine that I am ranting?

Froth  muddling? Laughable denial of  geopolitical reality. 

I am objecting ( not riling )to  what I see as the deliberate geographical placement of conflict .

Could not quite understand  or could not bring self to acknowledge ?

I care not because I derive my opinion on non sectarian or national compliance to propaganda.

[Morch]

5 minutes ago, RanongCat said:

You contrive a negative interpretation and determine that I am ranting?

Froth  muddling? Laughable denial of  geopolitical reality. 

I am objecting ( not riling )to  what I see as the deliberate geographical placement of conflict .

Could not quite understand  or could not bring self to acknowledge ?

I care not because I derive my opinion on non sectarian or national compliance to propaganda.

Word Salad, again.

[lvr181]

8 hours ago, impulse said:

You've just described asymmetric warfare.  But I'd revise your statement to read "the big guys follow the rules, the little guys can't afford to".   History will decide who the good guys are, after all the killing is done.

 

BTW, that's how Israel won statehood.  Bombing and terrorism, until the Brits gave up and went home.  But I say that not intending to open that line of discussion.  That's history and we're discussing current events.

 

"BTW, that's how Israel won statehood." with the backing of the USA against the

stubborn Brits.

[Toolong]

9 hours ago, Emdog said:

"...every Hamas member was "a dead man""

Well, I suppose it is time for Hamas to recruit some women then...

But it's all good, in line with the OT and all about conquering those who might live on "the promised land":

"But of the cities ... which the Lord thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth." Kill the old men and women, the sick and the dying, the blind and the lame, pregnant mothers, nursing mothers, infants, toddlers, and babies." Deuteronomy 20:16 (went without saying kill all the men)

Now you may say   "Hey wait, that is what Muslim Hamas did". True, but they do refer to Jews as "People of the book" (same sort of origin)... just following God's directions is all

Religion poisons everything

Re this idea of a land promised to the chosen ones by God himself, I heard the wonderful George Galloway yesterday describe such a thing thus.....(or nearabouts).....as 'God as a real estate agent'. 

 

I should make clear that George did NOT make that remark in support of such a notion, but as a means to highlight the wicked absurdity of it. 

 

And yes, Emdog, your point about 'Religions poison everything'...., is an idea that is getting harder & to oppose, very quickly.....though sadly not quick enough to save countless lives. 

[Nick Carter icp]

8 hours ago, impulse said:

.

 

BTW, that's how Israel won statehood.  Bombing and terrorism, until the Brits gave up and went home.  But I say that not intending to open that line of discussion.  That's history and we're discussing current events.

 

Brits didn't want to be there if the first place , they acquired  the land when the Ottoman empire fell and Brits were left holding the land , then World War 2 came and when that finished, the Brits just wanted to go home .

   Israel gained statehood through the U.N voting for it  , Israel didn't gain statehood through military action against the Brits.

    The Brits just wanted to go home after WW2

[lvr181]

8 minutes ago, lvr181 said:

"BTW, that's how Israel won statehood." with the backing of the USA against the

stubborn Brits.

Britain was granted control of the region by League of Nations mandate, in what became known as Mandatory Palestine. The British government publicly committed itself to the creation of a Jewish homeland. Arab nationalism opposed this design, asserting Arab rights over the former Ottoman territories and seeking to prevent Jewish migration. As a result, Arab–Jewish tensions grew in the succeeding decades of British administration.

In 1948, the Israeli Declaration of Independence sparked the 1948 Arab–Israeli War, which resulted in the 1948 Palestinian expulsion and flight and subsequently led to waves of Jewish emigration from other parts of the Middle East. Today, approximately 43 percent of the global Jewish population resides in Israel. In 1979, the Egypt–Israel peace treaty was signed, based on the Camp David Accords. In 1993, Israel signed the Oslo I Accord with the Palestine Liberation Organization, which was followed by the establishment of the Palestinian National Authority. In 1994, the Israel–Jordan peace treaty was signed. 

[IAMHERE]

Big Words; How do you tell a Hamas from a regular Gaza folk? They'll just blend into the local populace, you can't possibly kill most of them.

[Hanaguma]

11 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Brits didn't want to be there if the first place , they acquired  the land when the Ottoman empire fell and Brits were left holding the land , then World War 2 came and when that finished, the Brits just wanted to go home .

   Israel gained statehood through the U.N voting for it  , Israel didn't gain statehood through military action against the Brits.

    The Brits just wanted to go home after WW2

This is true. Israel then earned and paid in blood for their statehood by fending off the combined attack of 5 neighboring countries.  And has been doing so ever since. 

 

I have to laugh when I hear the common refrain that Israel just has to give up a bit more land. Here is what we are talking about;

 

In UK terms, Israel is just a bit bigger than Yorkshire.

In US terms, Israel is just a bit smaller than West Virginia

In Europe terms, Israel is half the size of Switzerland

 

Egypt is 50 times the size of Israel

Iran is 80 times the size of Israel

 

They don't have a lot of land to give.

[Yellowtail]

15 hours ago, Tropposurfer said:

Perhaps I digress ... but it seems to me the next few words from me are apropo of all the conflicts of mankind.

 

An awareness came to me, perhaps from the collective conscious Jung spoke of.

 

I thought of the words of Lennon in that haunting, yet childlike simple song 'Imagine'.

 

Imagine if we took the resources, the trillions of dollars, the waste of humane life, of nature, of all that could be achieved in our human struggle (journey) if we were to redirect, into a world free of wars, that money and all the human energy and time that goes along with it towards the uplifting of all humanity equally, and thus the planet and the fragile ecosystem we all share. 

Did he say that before or after he killed millions of his "comrades"? 

[MikeandDow]

13 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Brits didn't want to be there if the first place , they acquired  the land when the Ottoman empire fell and Brits were left holding the land , then World War 2 came and when that finished, the Brits just wanted to go home .

   Israel gained statehood through the U.N voting for it  , Israel didn't gain statehood through military action against the Brits.

    The Brits just wanted to go home after WW2

100% correct people need to read the history of Israel and The Balfour Declaration nothing to do with the US

Edited October 13, 2023 by MikeandDow

[Morch]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Did he say that before or after he killed millions of his "comrades"? 

 

John killed the rest of the Beatles?! That's a new one.

 

Lennon. Lenin. Not same same.

 

[proton]

Good history of Hamas from the Mail

 

 

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

John killed the rest of the Beatles?! That's a new one.

 

Lennon. Lenin. Not same same.

 

I stand corrected, thanks! 

 

Never a fan of either, politically. 

 

 

[HK MacPhooey]

19 hours ago, Morch said:

Mossad wouldn't have much to do with it. That's not their part of the intelligence picture.

There were, reportedly, warnings from Egypt, and some signs which weren't correctly interpreted. Hamas managed a good campaign hiding this - they had a lot of experience being a target for surveillance, must have learned how to deal with it over the years.

Apparently no radio or other electronic comms - only hand notes and runners 

[illisdean]

The Moral Duty to Destroy Hamas

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-moral-duty-to-destroy-hamas-ba626a41

 

Edited October 13, 2023 by illisdean

[ToolKit]

On 10/12/2023 at 2:15 AM, spidermike007 said:

Just apply more and more violence

To keep his seat. Netanyahu is toxic. If he's no longer PM, he'll be convicted. But Palestinian violence has pushed Israelis voting for him because he acts tough. But that puts oil on the fire. Keeping settlers from settling is required. Urgently.

 

[Morch]

6 hours ago, ToolKit said:

To keep his seat. Netanyahu is toxic. If he's no longer PM, he'll be convicted. But Palestinian violence has pushed Israelis voting for him because he acts tough. But that puts oil on the fire. Keeping settlers from settling is required. Urgently.

 

He talks tough, more like it.

 

In effect, it was Netanyahu's strategy for some years now to basically pay off Hamas and keep them pacified.

This was managed by facilitating Qatari funding for various projects and salaries in the Gaza Strip.

 

Netanyahu's 2008(!) election slogan was a promise to dismantle Hamas rule in the Gaza Strip. Didn't do anything to this effect since.

 

Even after the recent Hamas attack, things on Israel's end were pretty much delayed until he managed to pull a major centrist opposition party (headed by two former IDF chiefs of staff) into a sort of emergency government. Always useful to have someone to throw under the bus and point fingers at once the fighting is over.

 

[thailand49]

On 10/12/2023 at 11:18 AM, Neeranam said:

What's it got to do with Joe Biden?

You know US.  Support Israel and Joe Biden is President although it is said he is on the wrong side of every foreign affair decision. Then he just release the billions to Iran which is claim to be funding Humas bombing. 

At this point in time Joe Biden doesn't have a clue and shouldn't be asking Israel to follow the rules when the other side isn't. 

[Morch]

1 hour ago, thailand49 said:

You know US.  Support Israel and Joe Biden is President although it is said he is on the wrong side of every foreign affair decision. Then he just release the billions to Iran which is claim to be funding Humas bombing. 

At this point in time Joe Biden doesn't have a clue and shouldn't be asking Israel to follow the rules when the other side isn't. 

Again - this attack was planned at least a year back. It would not depend on funds released just now. Also, it was not a very expensive operation. Something Hamas could have spent on its own, or a drop in the ocean for Iran anyway.

[Yellowtail]

19 minutes ago, Morch said:

Again - this attack was planned at least a year back. It would not depend on funds released just now. Also, it was not a very expensive operation. Something Hamas could have spent on its own, or a drop in the ocean for Iran anyway.

how long had they been planning to release the funds? Likely as soon as Biden took office.

 

 

[Morch]

7 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

how long had they been planning to release the funds? Likely as soon as Biden took office.

 

 

They'd have to spend most of the funds well before the attack was carried out. So it wasn't any recently released funds that were used.

 

Anyway, as said - they hardly needed the released funds for that. Well within their means, and peanuts for Iran even without the released funds.

[spidermike007]

4 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

how long had they been planning to release the funds? Likely as soon as Biden took office.

 

 

Please explain why the brilliant Kushner plan would have saved Israel from this attack or pacified Hamas? Can you? Or is spouting slogans the limit of your political understanding? 

[thailand49]

11 hours ago, Morch said:

Again - this attack was planned at least a year back. It would not depend on funds released just now. Also, it was not a very expensive operation. Something Hamas could have spent on its own, or a drop in the ocean for Iran anyway.

So that makes it OK,  guess Iran, has money left from the 150 billion Obama gave back and Biden lifting sanctions on Iran so they can sell their oil.

Funny was planned a year ago. 

Not taking sides watching the news the protester from Hamas and Palestinian the attacks and killing by Isreal is a no brainer. 

Thanks

Edited October 15, 2023 by thailand49

[Yellowtail]

11 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Please explain why the brilliant Kushner plan would have saved Israel from this attack or pacified Hamas? Can you? Or is spouting slogans the limit of your political understanding? 

The Abraham Accords were working. 

[Yellowtail]

16 hours ago, Morch said:

They'd have to spend most of the funds well before the attack was carried out. So it wasn't any recently released funds that were used.

But they likely knew the money was on the way, yes? 

16 hours ago, Morch said:

Anyway, as said - they hardly needed the released funds for that. Well within their means, and peanuts for Iran even without the released funds.

Surly you agree the spending on the has only started, yes? 

 

Now all that money is available for "humanitarian" aid, which frees up more money the help hamas eradicate the Jews. 

[Morch]

58 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

But they likely knew the money was on the way, yes? 

Surly you agree the spending on the has only started, yes? 

 

Now all that money is available for "humanitarian" aid, which frees up more money the help hamas eradicate the Jews. 

As said, I don't think that the funding required for this attack presented much of an issue. It's basically a low cost operation. Well within Hamas means, and surely, Iran's.

 

Hamas is not solely or even mainly dependent on funding from Iran. That Hamas takes a cut out of almost every money that comes into the Gaza Strip is a given.

 

I think this whole Biden-gave-the-money-that-funded-the-attack angle is nonsense.

 

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

As said, I don't think that the funding required for this attack presented much of an issue. It's basically a low cost operation. Well within Hamas means, and surely, Iran's.

 

Hamas is not solely or even mainly dependent on funding from Iran. That Hamas takes a cut out of almost every money that comes into the Gaza Strip is a given.

 

I think this whole Biden-gave-the-money-that-funded-the-attack angle is nonsense.

 

As I said, they likely knew the money was on the way, yes? 

 

And surly you agree the spending on the has only started, yes? 

 

And that now all that money is available for "humanitarian" aid, which frees up more money the help hamas eradicate the Jews. 

 

I'll concede that Joe Biden is the greatest President in American history, but do you want to respond or not? It's not just the money, it's also the Afghanistan debacle, Ukraine weapons , and the fact that the current administration is much friendlier and accommodating to Iran and Palestine than the previous administration was/would have been. 

 

Incidentally, I was pleasantly surprised at how strongly President Biden came out against hamas, and was disappointed with Trump's dumbass response.