Changes To Retirement Visas Heralded

[gdhm]

I dont know about all of this but I do know that when I went yesterday to renew my retirement visa the rules have changed again.

Now they will only issue a one month extension, during the one month an immigration officer is supposed to visit you at your place or residence to check you really live there. Also they may want to see proof that the money you have in the bank (800,000 thb) actually came from abroad and that its being used to support your stay here. When they are satisfied they will issue the one year retirement visa.

This was at BKK Immigration. The rule came into force 4 days ago.

Hi,

Thanks for this report.

Immigration officers will gte busy if they have to start visiting all retirees....

Was it your first extension of stay ?

Hi again. No this is my 3rd retirement visa. Dave I am not married and I have reported every 90 days I have moved once and immigration were told of the change. As we all know new rules come out from immigration on a more than regular basis and this is just another one.

I say this paragraph with tongue in cheek why doesn't Thailand just kick all of us long term stayers out of Thailand. The never ending "tightening of the screw" as if we are "all criminal undesirables damaging Thailand" is not only getting tiring and worrying but getting highly personal. Maybe all Thailand wants is the short term tourist or short term bar girl visitors that spend, spend, spend during their stay and then go home.

What exactly is it that Thailand seems to hate about long term stayers in their country, that they keep changing the rules and continue to confuse all would be applicants by lack of information (often until we turn up for renewals), lack of clarity and consistency. This is hardly a sign of a a country with a reputation for respect and friendliness.

Many long term stayers are trying to (or are) supporting our families here (extended in some cases). Why are we apparently considered such a high profile target by Immigration. Are we considered unreliable, untrustworthy or WHAT!!!!, that we seem to warrant so much Immigration Bureau Regulatory and monitoring time.

If Thailand wants us out, all they have to do is refuse Visa renewal (or rescind earlier)

OR,

just increase the financial thresholds yet again, as that will kill off most of us off expect the very rich (who no doubt are considered desirable. Why is it that Thailand considers wealth of a foreigner equates to the level of "GOOD person" a foreigner is. Since when does money alone prove the quality, genuineness or desirability of of person (except to those who will sell heir souls for money alone).

A big financial threshold hike (or even a further moderate one) will also probably kill off many single retiree Farangs who have been retried here for years AND many Farang-Thai families (who could not be supported financially in our home countries (or nothing to the same degree). I may be a Khi Nok Farang by some of the young (or not so young) Thai ladies standards, but (when my house sells in Spain) I still will be able to buy a new house, a new car, money in the bank and I already support my family and have helped out my close Thai family on many occasions. I buy many things already from the shops. Without us (even Khi Nok) long term stayers many builders, renters and shops would feel the impact.

I am not suggesting we are "God's Gift" to Thailand for a minute, but I AM saying "Thailand we love our adoptive home country and your people AND we are NOT the enemy" that Immigration seems increasingly worried and suspicious about.

Most of us Foreigners are decent ordinary people like most Thais only difference is we often are FORTUNATE to have more money than the average Thai by virtue of being lucky to be born in more affluent societies).

Is it possible all these changes has more to do with keeping and expanding jobs than anything. After all just how many extra officers will be required to travel the length and breadth of Thailand to check where we are living (as if that was the most important thing anyway- after how many Thais report changes of address - very few).

(tongue in cheek) Maybe there will soon be a new Regulation. All Foreigners must live within a 20 km radius of an Immigration Office so that the officers can confirm their address more easily. No doubt a few months later rule would be changed to 5 kms radius. Maybe we should all live in the Immigration Bureau then they would know where we are at all times, what we eat, what we do and whether what we are doing meets their approval. We could also be very easily found if Thailand wishes to deport us.

In summary I do not understand why Thailand is trying to many ordinary foreign folks lives so problematical for apparently such little reason and tiny benefit. The real undesirables will always find ways to evade regulations, and often are totally invisible to Immigration unlike those of us that dutifully comply and visit Immigration Buearu offices are required.

Regard, Dave

[Krub]

I say this paragraph with tongue in cheek why doesn't Thailand just kick all of us long term stayers out of Thailand. The never ending "tightening of the screw" as if we are "all criminal undesirables damaging Thailand" is not only getting tiring and worrying but getting highly personal. Maybe all Thailand wants is the short term tourist or short term bar girl visitors that spend, spend, spend during their stay and then go home.

What exactly is it that Thailand seems to hate about long term stayers in their country, that they keep changing the rules and continue to confuse all would be applicants by lack of information (often until we turn up for renewals), lack of clarity and consistency. This is hardly a sign of a a country with a reputation for respect and friendliness.

Many long term stayers are trying to (or are) supporting our families here (extended in some cases). Why are we apparently considered such a high profile target by Immigration. Are we considered unreliable, untrustworthy or WHAT!!!!, that we seem to warrant so much Immigration Bureau Regulatory and monitoring time.

If Thailand wants us out, all they have to do is refuse Visa renewal (or rescind earlier)

OR,

just increase the financial thresholds yet again, as that will kill off most of us off expect the very rich (who no doubt are considered desirable. Why is it that Thailand considers wealth of a foreigner equates to the level of "GOOD person" a foreigner is. Since when does money alone prove the quality, genuineness or desirability of of person (except to those who will sell heir souls for money alone).

A big financial threshold hike (or even a further moderate one) will also probably kill off many single retiree Farangs who have been retried here for years AND many Farang-Thai families (who could not be supported financially in our home countries (or nothing to the same degree). I may be a Khi Nok Farang by some of the young (or not so young) Thai ladies standards, but (when my house sells in Spain) I still will be able to buy a new house, a new car, money in the bank and I already support my family and have helped out my close Thai family on many occasions. I buy many things already from the shops. Without us (even Khi Nok) long term stayers many builders, renters and shops would feel the impact.

I am not suggesting we are "God's Gift" to Thailand for a minute, but I AM saying "Thailand we love our adoptive home country and your people AND we are NOT the enemy" that Immigration seems increasingly worried and suspicious about.

Most of us Foreigners are decent ordinary people like most Thais only difference is we often are FORTUNATE to have more money than the average Thai by virtue of being lucky to be born in more affluent societies).

Is it possible all these changes has more to do with keeping and expanding jobs than anything. After all just how many extra officers will be required to travel the length and breadth of Thailand to check where we are living (as if that was the most important thing anyway- after how many Thais report changes of address - very few).

(tongue in cheek) Maybe there will soon be a new Regulation. All Foreigners must live within a 20 km radius of an Immigration Office so that the officers can confirm their address more easily. No doubt a few months later rule would be changed to 5 kms radius. Maybe we should all live in the Immigration Bureau then they would know where we are at all times, what we eat, what we do and whether what we are doing meets their approval. We could also be very easily found if Thailand wishes to deport us.

In summary I do not understand why Thailand is trying to many ordinary foreign folks lives so problematical for apparently such little reason and tiny benefit. The real undesirables will always find ways to evade regulations, and often are totally invisible to Immigration unlike those of us that dutifully comply and visit Immigration Buearu offices are required.

Regard, Dave

Hi Dave I can understand your frustration but as I said before I very much doubt there is a concerted policy of anything.

It is just a quick fix easy way to try and keep up with the loopholes.....and we all have to pay for it

It is still relatively cheapand easy to live in the LOS compared to many other countries.

Never cut your bridges just in case it becomes realdifficult or impossible to stay, this goes for all living in a foreign country (I have been living out of mine for more than 35 years and I am 'only' 43)

Edited July 29, 2007 by lopburi3
fix quote - lopburi3

[gdhm]

Hi Dave I can understand your frustration but as I said before I very much doubt there is a concerted policy of anything.

It is just a quick fix easy way to try and keep up with the loopholes.....and we all have to pay for it

It is still relatively cheapand easy to live in the LOS compared to many other countries.

Never cut your bridges just in case it becomes realdifficult or impossible to stay, this goes for all living in a foreign country (I have been living out of mine for more than 35 years and I am 'only' 43)

Hi Krub,

VERY GOOD SOUND ADVICE.

I have tried to cater for that scenario but having moved from an expensive to UK to cheaper Spain and improved my life style, and now to a MUCH cheaper Thailand (and that will improve my lifestyle when my house in Spain sells 1.5yrs already - major downturn in the market there). it is always harder to return to more expensive countries after you have been away from them for a few years or more.

I am on an early pension (55yrs old just) and now have a wife, stepson and have taken in a 10 yr niece as if a daughter (mother barely ever visits from BKK) and have JUST moved into a rental from my wife's Aunt's home. Once my house sells and I buy here it would be VERY difficult to go back to Spain especially as selling a possibly 3m baht house would, not necessarily be a fast thing to do AND I would have a family to take with me and look after). UK is already way beyond my finances.

Still that's life's little problems and we must make decisions as best we can, and hope fate does not turn against us or if it does, not too harshly.

I hope I, you and all other decent people who love living in Thailand, the country and people are never obliged to leave Thailand unless it is their desire to do so.

Best wishes, Dave

[coppywriter]

Hi Dave. I must agree with everything you say and for all of the right reasons. I myself have a partner who with my money has expanded a business to employ over 19 people and the extended famalies. I am happy for the money to be used in this way and have no doubt that the business will grow and employ more and more people. I get no financial reward for this ( I dont want it) but I do get the satisfaction of seeing many people employed and also a happy partner with a sucessful business, this is enough for me.

However I was dismayed at the reply by the immigration officer to my question as to WHY? was this extension needed. The reply was " its a matter of national security but personally I think its stupid "

It made me feel like an undesirable person in this great country.

[PeaceBlondie]

I cannot imagine every farang who wishes to renew their retirement visa (yet again) getting a real visit on foot by the Immigration officer. They don't have the time, the benzene, the vehicle upkeep, etc. Once in Hua Hin, I saw two officers drive in, walk down the beach, and call a swimmer out of the water! But only once. And they knew they'd get 20,000 baht more income from that one home visit!

[Krub]

I cannot imagine every farang who wishes to renew their retirement visa (yet again) getting a real visit on foot by the Immigration officer. They don't have the time, the benzene, the vehicle upkeep, etc. Once in Hua Hin, I saw two officers drive in, walk down the beach, and call a swimmer out of the water! But only once. And they knew they'd get 20,000 baht more income from that one home visit!

This is maybe very true but it will not stop them from giving all a 1 month consideration stamp and 'maybe' do spot checks as they seem to be doing for the 'Thai wife' extension

WHy not have all foreigner register with the local Amphur and notlink it with an immigration matter. I have to register with my local authorities within 14 days of a change of adress in Japan but this has nothing to do with my period of stay nor my visa status.

[OneeyedJohn]

.<<<<just increase the financial thresholds yet again, as that will kill off most of us off expect the very rich (who no doubt are considered desirable. Why is it that Thailand considers wealth of a foreigner equates to the level of "GOOD person" a foreigner is. Since when does money alone prove the quality,

It is something to do with Karma I read somewhere, in that if you are seen as having no money then how can you possibly be a good person. If you do a favour for a person with money then you yourself will likely benefit. ( you will get some reward or benefit in return ).

Not seen as possible if you do the same favour to a poor person.

Sorry if my explanation is poor, but it does ( to me at least ) explain how in earlier years here your interaction with Thais on any level was always treated with reverence. Nowadays they coudn't give tuppence for your business.

I also don't like the feeling of being right royally shafted at every turn.

[DFCarlson]

I cannot imagine every farang who wishes to renew their retirement visa (yet again) getting a real visit on foot by the Immigration officer. They don't have the time, the benzene, the vehicle upkeep, etc. Once in Hua Hin, I saw two officers drive in, walk down the beach, and call a swimmer out of the water! But only once. And they knew they'd get 20,000 baht more income from that one home visit!

This is maybe very true but it will not stop them from giving all a 1 month consideration stamp and 'maybe' do spot checks as they seem to be doing for the 'Thai wife' extension

WHy not have all foreigner register with the local Amphur and notlink it with an immigration matter. I have to register with my local authorities within 14 days of a change of adress in Japan but this has nothing to do with my period of stay nor my visa status.

Why not link any address checks to the 90 day reporting requirement?

The immigration officer who receives the 90 day report can choose or not (at his discretion) to check and see if the person filing the report actually lives at the address that he or she has written down.

[Sojourner]

Please share the name and location of this service that you have used in the past?

Star Visa Service

409 Wichayanond Rd

Muang, Chiang Mai, Thailand

email: [email protected]

Tel: 053-232-478

Just to test the waters, I went to Star Visa Service last Tuesday. They didn't seemed surprised that I asked for the stamp on my pension declaration from the American Consulate. They promptly copied my passport, translated the consulate document and sent both documents to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Total cost 1800 baht. I asked what the turnaround-time might be and was told three days. Well, it's Saturday and no call yet. Time will tell what the MFA is really going to do I guess. If it does come back stamped, I will go to Chiang Mai Immigration and ask them to review the document and verify I can use it after October 1st. Will keep all informed.

I got the documents back from Star Visa Service this afternoon. The original pension declaration letter, as well as the translation, have been stamped by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. The stamp states that the signature of the consulate representative is certified genuine. This proves one thing, that I didn't have to go to the MFA in person.

I then proceeded over to Chiang Mai Immigration and questioned two Pol. Captains about the need for the MFA stamp after 1 October '07. The second officer is the one who oversees all the passports passing through that office and is the one we all see last before heading out the door. Neither of them ever heard of such a rule change.

I guess the conclusion is "Do you feel lucky?" Who knows if we up-country folk need to bother. Maybe it's that we are such honest, upstanding, forthright retirees that we would never falsify documents.

For those who would rather not take a chance but cannot justify making the trip to BKK, I suggest locating a translation/visa service that handles the "permission to marry" documents needed to marry in Thailand. They should be able to do this service as well.

[ProThaiExpat]

Thanks Sojourner for your valuable and informative post.

I will be going into Chiang Mai Immigration on October 2nd, after the purported date of the new regulation, to renew my extension and I will post if I am required to get an MFA stamp or not. I will also go in with a bank document verifying my funds came from overseas, as well as a account verification letter from the bank just in case. To date pension + guys have yet to post proof of overseas source of funds for the bank account is required.

I will post immediately what happens in any case.

[JRinger]

For your information:

I went to Nongkai immigration yesterday for a retirement visa with my original embassy pension letter/affadavit dated December 2006.

I was told the letter has to be during the same year, i.e., 2007 and not "within 12 months" and that I needed the certified copy from MFA....

All that I've read above indicates this new regulation doesn't start until October....welll....surprise!!!

I called MFA and this is what they told me: "if immigration told you that you need the certification from Ministry of Foreign Affairs then you need it"...!!!

Edited August 10, 2007 by JRinger

[gdhm]

For your information:

I went to Nongkai immigration yesterday for a retirement visa with my original embassy pension letter/affadavit dated December 2006.

I was told the letter has to be during the same year, i.e., 2007 and not "within 12 months" and that I needed the certified copy from MFA....

All that I've read above indicates this new regulation doesn't start until October....welll....surprise!!!

I called MFA and this is what they told me: "if immigration told you that you need the certification from Ministry of Foreign Affairs then you need it"...!!!

Well I went to Korat yesterday (9th Aug) for my new "Retirement Non Imm. O Visa (and re-entry permit).

Admittedly my Embassy letter was only a week old, BUT there was NO question of it needing an MFA certification and I suspect but cannot be sure that my 13 month old original Embassy letter (retained from last year) would have been OK too

Nothing was asked for, that I did not expect. No medial certificate was asked for.

I live in Khon Kaen and Korat is only 16 kms farther away than Nong Khai and MUCH easier to get to - just get off the air con bus, 5 mins walk and you are there. I arrived just after lunch (there was NO queue at all).

I have never visited Nong Khai Immigration Office as I used their sub office at Udon Thani last year (officer was not pleasant and his manner unwarranted and unnecessary). Udon Thani has just ceased operations, so I chose Korat for future Visa requirements over Nong Khai.

It seems obvious by most reports on the Forums that Nong Khai is one of the hardest offices (if not the hardest) to please, and they often exercise their right to ask for additional requirements extensively. Worse for us Visa seekers, is that their views and requirements seem to change frequently, and different visitors report on the Forums of different requirements, experiences and problems.

I will stick with Korat from now on. NOT because they are lenient (they were thorough) but because they seem consistent and require what MOST of us understand is all that is required.

Oh, the atmosphere at the Korat Office was friendly and relaxed within the office. My wife and I were allowed us to wait IN the Office (not outside) during their lunch break (closed 12 noon to 1pm).

Our attending Officer was pleasant and had a sense of humour (initiated by him) and he wasted no time being pleasant whilst being efficient and doing his job. All in all, it was a comfortable visit for all (my wife and and the Immigration staff).

Regards, Dave

[Krub]

For your information:

I went to Nongkai immigration yesterday for a retirement visa with my original embassy pension letter/affadavit dated December 2006.

I was told the letter has to be during the same year, i.e., 2007 and not "within 12 months" and that I needed the certified copy from MFA....

All that I've read above indicates this new regulation doesn't start until October....welll....surprise!!!

I called MFA and this is what they told me: "if immigration told you that you need the certification from Ministry of Foreign Affairs then you need it"...!!!

Well I went to Korat yesterday (9th Aug) for my new "Retirement Non Imm. O Visa (and re-entry permit).

Admittedly my Embassy letter was only a week old, BUT there was NO question of it needing an MFA certification and I suspect but cannot be sure that my 13 month old original Embassy letter (retained from last year) would have been OK too

Nothing was asked for, that I did not expect. No medial certificate was asked for.

I live in Khon Kaen and Korat is only 16 kms farther away than Nong Khai and MUCH easier to get to - just get off the air con bus, 5 mins walk and you are there. I arrived just after lunch (there was NO queue at all).

I have never visited Nong Khai Immigration Office as I used their sub office at Udon Thani last year (officer was not pleasant and his manner unwarranted and unnecessary). Udon Thani has just ceased operations, so I chose Korat for future Visa requirements over Nong Khai.

It seems obvious by most reports on the Forums that Nong Khai is one of the hardest offices (if not the hardest) to please, and they often exercise their right to ask for additional requirements extensively. Worse for us Visa seekers, is that their views and requirements seem to change frequently, and different visitors report on the Forums of different requirements, experiences and problems.

I will stick with Korat from now on. NOT because they are lenient (they were thorough) but because they seem consistent and require what MOST of us understand is all that is required.

Oh, the atmosphere at the Korat Office was friendly and relaxed within the office. My wife and I were allowed us to wait IN the Office (not outside) during their lunch break (closed 12 noon to 1pm).

Our attending Officer was pleasant and had a sense of humour (initiated by him) and he wasted no time being pleasant whilst being efficient and doing his job. All in all, it was a comfortable visit for all (my wife and and the Immigration staff).

Regards, Dave

Well done Dave

Thanks for the report

[JRinger]

Thanks Dave, guess I should have gone to Korat.

I've been to Nongkai a few times over the years and they've ALWAYS been rude and unfriendly. I will never go there again.

JR