Changes To Retirement Visas Heralded

[bkkbill]

I'm just renewing my visa in Bangkok and got my passport stamped to come back Aug. 17 as normal. Nothing was said about this. Married to a Thai wife have 400,000 Baht in the bank has been like that for 7 years now. Last year when renewing was told I would have to show my income-tax return. Told them I pay in Canada and was told that was no problem so this year just photocopied my Canadian return and everything went through just fine.

//Edit: Off topic. Not related to retirement visa or extension for retirement.

Edited July 22, 2007 by Maestro

[Fred Sanford]

The way it sounds to me is that this will be an annual requirement rather than using the same letter year after year

[RayBan]

In supporting the originality of this article I enclose a quote below from the minutes of the Pattaya City Expat's Club weekly meeting of Sunday July 15th, 2007, which indicates that Barry Kenyon, Honorary British Council, will visit their meeting of Sunday 22nd July. Although I will not be at that meeting to hear him speak, I will receive a copy of the minutes of the meeting and post again a copy here.

I used to live in Pattaya and this is a club worth visiting, their website is www.pattayacityexpatsclub.com

Below is the quotation from their Newsletter of 15/07:-

"Also, Barry Kenyon, Honorary British Consul, will be here to elaborate on the new requirements for obtaining or renewing a visa when using a pension verification or certification letter from your Embassy as proof of pension income. The new requirement, effective Oct. 1, 2007 for new and renewal Retirement Visa's, requires that the Embassy letter verifying pension income must have an additional stamp from the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Bangkok. More information on this requirement and a link to the Pattaya Today news article can be found under the Newsletter’s Important News caption. "

I hope this helps..........

[JetsetBkk]

<snip>

the 900k would need to be on deposit three months prior to renewal in 2008.

900k? A typo, I hope!

There is an easy way out of this. And that is to keep your pension money in your home country and transfer the equivalent of 800,000 baht when necessary to Thailand each year. To do this you clearly need an initial 800,000 to live for the first year. But if you are living hand to mouth every month, this option is not available.

[Lifelover]

There is an easy way out of this. And that is to keep your pension money in your home country and transfer the equivalent of 800,000 baht when necessary to Thailand each year. To do this you clearly need an initial 800,000 to live for the first year. But if you are living hand to mouth every month, this option is not available.

This is indeed the easy way, and fine if the three month rule is not applied on renewals. The Immigration Officer in Chiang Mai informed my lawyer this month that there was NO requirement to have the 800K in the Thai bank three months prior to renewal (it is required on the first time application only he said).

However if the 3-month rule is applied it is potentially very costly for anyone like me who actively invests his pension and other savings offshore and earns high interest on it. The three month rule would mean transfer of a minimum of 1 million baht (800K plus money to live on for 3 months). That is 1 mio at x% a month loss of interest for three months. In my case at least 50,000 baht in lost interest to comply with this rule.

That would make a retirement extension a very expensive proposition.

[lopburi3]

If you have a pension you should be using the 65k pension letter from your Embassy method rather than bank deposit. Even if the pension was less than 65k you can use combined total and a much lower bank deposit.

[Kaojai]

"The exception to the new rule are those foreigners, aged 50 and above, who keep at least 800,000 baht in a Thai bank and can show it has been there for three months prior to the application renewal.

These long stayers do not need a letter from the respective embassy to apply for the yearly visa and thus do not have to appear at the ministry of foreign affairs in Bangkok. However, only a small minority of retirement visa holders keep such a sum in a Thai bank for the requisite period, most relying on a combination of pension income in their home country and a lessor amount in the Thai bank."

So, if I keep at least B800,000 in my bank account and my bank book indicates that I have been topping it up with foreign originated funds, then I don't need to have any letter/statement from pension or a statement verification from embassy. Is that right?

An acquaintance, not someone I would necessarily put absolute faith in for getting things right, told me:

(-a-) a friend had over one million in his account, but since there was no evidence that he had brought fresh funds into the country during the year, his application was refused,

(-b-) when my acquaintance went to Bangkok Bank to get the manager's letter verifying that foreign deposits had been made to his account, he was told that Immigrations had Internet access to expats' bank accounts to verify information.

While (-a-) makes sense since they do want you to be bringing foreign exchange into the country, I find (-b-) both improbable and maybe a little alarming.

Are both a letter from the bank manager and the passbook needed, or is the letter no longer required? In the event that sufficient funds have been deposited in my account during the year to maintain at least B800,000, then the embassy statement etc is not required. Right?

Edited July 22, 2007 by Kaojai

[Krub]

"The exception to the new rule are those foreigners, aged 50 and above, who keep at least 800,000 baht in a Thai bank and can show it has been there for three months prior to the application renewal.

These long stayers do not need a letter from the respective embassy to apply for the yearly visa and thus do not have to appear at the ministry of foreign affairs in Bangkok. However, only a small minority of retirement visa holders keep such a sum in a Thai bank for the requisite period, most relying on a combination of pension income in their home country and a lessor amount in the Thai bank."

So, if I keep at least B800,000 in my bank account and my bank book indicates that I have been topping it up with foreign originated funds, then I don't need to have any letter/statement from pension or a statement verification from embassy. Is that right?

An acquaintance, not someone I would necessarily put absolute faith in for getting things right, told me:

(-a-) a friend had over one million in his account, but since there was no evidence that he had brought fresh funds into the country during the year, his application was refused,

(-b-) when my acquaintance went to Bangkok Bank to get the manager's letter verifying that foreign deposits had been made to his account, he was told that Immigrations had Internet access to expats' bank accounts to verify information.

While (-a-) makes sense since they do want you to be bringing foreign exchange into the country, I find (-b-) both improbable and maybe a little alarming.

Are both a letter from the bank manager and the passbook needed, or is the letter no longer required? In the event that sufficient funds have been deposited in my account during the year to maintain at least B800,000, then the embassy statement etc is not required. Right?

When you transfer funds from abroad directly into your Thai account, there is a code next to the credit which indicates it originated from out of the country. It should be sufficient for immigration.

Also you can showthe copiesof your transfer orders if needed.

[lopburi3]

1. Embassy statement not required if you are not using pension as part of requirement.

2. Have not heard of anyone being denied on basis of money movements (or lack of them). In fact may people use fixed deposit accounts. Only if they had other information (local income) and used this as an excuse would I give it much rating. For old marriage support I would rate the possibility much higher.

3. Both passbook/copies and letter are required.

4. I believe there was talk a about Immigration having access to account balance information during review process for old support Thai wife under review process from many reports and believe there was a paragraph on yearly document that allowed this. Do not believe there is the same document/access for retirement.

[teacher]

Are you sure that you have the correct source? Do you have a link?

The Pattaya Today web page http://www.pattayatoday.net/ shows the current issue (July 16) as Volume 5, Issue 5 and there is no article such as you describe. In addition I searched their site using the word 'retirement' and found nothing.

It's also in the Pattaya mail

[teacher]

He's a very valid point!!!!!!!!!

Because the MFA Office need everything they see in English, translated to Thai. Therefore I would assume additional cost will be relevent.

Also when you do an Affirmation of freedom to marry, you have to pay 800bt for MFA to stamp the document after it's been translated and that can take up to 4 hours.

It's not so bad for people from BKK, but how is someone from up north going to manage this?

[PeaceBlondie]

Let's see. I have last year's statement from my embassy, which they don't verify, and it's dated 17 October 2006. My last renewal was the same day, effective 8 November 2006. But it will be almost a year old when I renew, although I could possibly renew it before 16 October 2007. What if I take my 2006 embassy statement to Bangkok in early October?

This is a bit silly to my thinking. We all know the US Embassy only verifies your identity, not your self serving statement. So the MFA is going to re-verify your identity, without verifying your income? Every trip to BKK costs me about 2,500 baht, plus entertainment and food. Oh well, I have to stay here....

[lopburi3]

They will verify the signature of the Consul and the seal of the Consulate I expect.

[DFCarlson]

Sooooo... so far the OP has seen a news report in the Pattaya Today paper, and another poster has seen the same (or a similar) report in the Pattaya Mail... and we are supposed to figure out the details from those articles...???

Does anyone know where this requirement appears or will appear formally so that we can read it in the official rulebook and then have something really concrete to analyze? Or will the varied reports of another rule "subject to individual interpretation" begin to appar here after October 1st?

My Social Security income from the States changes every year, and I suspect that for me, assuming the discussion so far is pretty much on the mark, this will require an annual trip to Bangkok... and I live in Chiang Kham.

[Krub]

Sooooo... so far the OP has seen a news report in the Pattaya Today paper, and another poster has seen the same (or a similar) report in the Pattaya Mail... and we are supposed to figure out the details from those articles...???

Does anyone know where this requirement appears or will appear formally so that we can read it in the official rulebook and then have something really concrete to analyze? Or will the varied reports of another rule "subject to individual interpretation" begin to appar here after October 1st?

My Social Security income from the States changes every year, and I suspect that for me, assuming the discussion so far is pretty much on the mark, this will require an annual trip to Bangkok... and I live in Chiang Kham.

Does anybody know if if the verification can be done by proxy ?

After all it is not your signature they verify but the Embassy's

[chiang mai]

The requirement for holders of retirement visa's to have 800,000 baht on deposit three months before renewal date has been in place since at least April of this year. I renewed my retirement visa in May and was asked to sign a form at that time stating the 900k would need to be on deposit three months prior to renewal in 2008.

Which Immigration Office was that?

The Chiang Mai office

[backflip]

"Because the MFA Office need everything they see in English, translated to Thai...Also when you do an Affirmation of freedom to marry, you have to pay 800bt for MFA to stamp the document after it's been translated and that can take up to 4 hours. It's not so bad for people from BKK, but how is someone from up north going to manage this?"

I'm frustrated by the "can't do" attitude by many Thais, including the governmental officials. When it became obvious that an ILLEGALLY constructed disco was a few meters too close to the railway tracks, the officialy governmental advisory was "we can't build a railway between the new airport and the Skytrain." Incredible.

Unfortunately, this mindeset has been adopted by many farangs, evidenced by the first paragraph. My first thought would be to rent a BKK hotel room for a night, and the get the paperwork done. But, I guess that idea never crossed the poster's mind. "I can't...I can't...I can't..."

Edited July 23, 2007 by backflip

[OneeyedJohn]

Immigration at Suan Pluu is forty minutes drive from the MFA down the expressway, but it is a nice place if you have to wait. The charges per 100 words are 200 Bt which will normally take 2 working days, double that if you want same day ( > 2Hrs ) service.

The UK Embassy is always next day service.

From my exp last week I would have any and every document certified and translated before approaching MFA ( what an appropiate acronym )

[Krub]

Immigration at Suan Pluu is forty minutes drive from the MFA down the expressway, but it is a nice place if you have to wait. The charges per 100 words are 200 Bt which will normally take 2 working days, double that if you want same day ( > 2Hrs ) service.

The UK Embassy is always next day service.

From my exp last week I would have any and every document certified and translated before approaching MFA ( what an appropiate acronym )

Translate the Embassy letter in Thai and then have it certified ? Well this is new and is going to take some time for the translation and then certification...

For us living in the sticks, will it mean a week stay in Bangkok juts for this letter ?

[OneeyedJohn]

After what I went through last week, my wife was close to having me certified

Had I not had a friend drive me here, there and everywhere, I would not have coped

with it all.

[ProThaiExpat]

I have monitored all posts in this thread so far as they were forwarded to me by e-mail, so forgive me if I missed an important post, however, it just occurred to me that this "new regulation" originated in a Pattaya Newspaper, and followed up by a local Brit Honorary Consul asked by the Pattaya expat club to speak to the issue.

Has anyone seen this "new reg" quoted anywhere else? Could this be a local Pattaya Immigration regulation attempting to stop fake pension verification letters they have experienced that may not be a problem elsewhere? Not a bad drive to MFA from Pattaya but onerous from remote northern villagers.

Pattaya Immigration has started rumors before or reported by Pattayans that they have. They also have reportedly had some "special handling" not experienced Thailand wide. Just a thought!!!

[Krub]

I have monitored all posts in this thread so far as they were forwarded to me by e-mail, so forgive me if I missed an important post, however, it just occurred to me that this "new regulation" originated in a Pattaya Newspaper, and followed up by a local Brit Honorary Consul asked by the Pattaya expat club to speak to the issue.

Has anyone seen this "new reg" quoted anywhere else? Could this be a local Pattaya Immigration regulation attempting to stop fake pension verification letters they have experienced that may not be a problem elsewhere? Not a bad drive to MFA from Pattaya but onerous from remote northern villagers.

Pattaya Immigration has started rumors before or reported by Pattayans that they have. They also have reportedly had some "special handling" not experienced Thailand wide. Just a thought!!!

Hope you are right

Will try to do my renewal before October 1 to be sure this year

[Larryst]

If you get a certified letter from your embassy. Do you have to get it translated in thai? Do the MFA stamp the original letter from the embassy or do they stamp your copied translated thai form? Or do they stamp both?

Edited July 23, 2007 by Larryst

[Kaojai]

it just occurred to me that this "new regulation" originated in a Pattaya Newspaper, and followed up by a local Brit Honorary Consul asked by the Pattaya expat club to speak to the issue.

As stated in the original post:

"The Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs has indicated that effective October 1 this year, foreign applicants for the one year retirement visa, or those renewing, must take their embassy letter guaranteeing their income to the ministry of foreign affairs in Bangkok for a stamp of confirmation. They then return to the local immigration bureau with the letter and process the application as now."

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs is not located in Pattaya.

Does anyone know where this requirement appears or will appear formally so that we can read it in the official rulebook and then have something really concrete to analyze?

As stated in the original post:

The article closes by saying, "Nearer the starting date on October 1,2007, there will be leaflets in English and Thai available at immigration bureaus, including currently ambiguous matters such as foreigners who are unable to travel long distances because they are incapacitated."

[RayBan]

it just occurred to me that this "new regulation" originated in a Pattaya Newspaper, and followed up by a local Brit Honorary Consul asked by the Pattaya expat club to speak to the issue.

You are obviously not a "Brit," ........... otherwise you would know what an Honorary Consul meant................which is an Officially designated representative of the British Embassy!!!!!

Barry Kenyon’s official title is the Honorary British Embassy Officer in Pattaya and he has spent many years helping British expatriates who have, intentionally or unintentionally, found themselves in a difficult situation in Pattaya.

In his role as an officer for the British Embassy in Thailand, he tries to keep their citizens and others updated regularly with notification of possible problematic areas, and embassy advice on how to handle such problems.

However, the way each Embassy's representatives deal with day to day problems varies from the “no help brigade” to the unique pro-active approach of Barry Kenyon. Barry is based in Pattaya, is known to police and government authorities, and frequently gets calls from them to help British (and sometimes another country's) citizens in trouble.

Barry is the only Embassy representative in Pattaya to take such an active role and if he publicises information of such a nature as under this thread, well you can guarantee that there is real and substantiated truth in it. I will post his comments at the meeting of Sunday last as soon as they are posted to me.

Hope this further helps this thread.........

[jEFFREYk44]

What is required to get a statement of income from USA consulate?

[rito]

What is required to get a statement of income from USA consulate?

Nothing...I just got one recently (June). It's a form letter, fill in the blanks, pay fee, I sign, they sign & stamp, no questions asked & I was done.

(This was my experience during a consular visit in Udon on June 8th. The procedure may or may not be the same at ACS in BKK.)

[wca01]

Should be not a problem to issue a "power of attorney" to someone.

WCA

[PeaceBlondie]

As I understand (and agree with) the last post by ProThaiExpat, the source of this entire issue is not Bangkok and not directly from the MFA, it is from a British citizen (Honorary Consul) in Pattya. The news sources are Pattaya media of .....doubtful reputation? Those of us in northern Chiang Mai or outer Nisaan need to know if we need to spend three days in Bangers for.....nothing. As PTE also points out, what authority does the MFA have over the Immigration Police in immigration matters?

[Gary A]

I went to Chiang Khan for my 90 day address verification today. I took my income statement letter from the US Embassy and asked him if I could use it in November when I apply for my yearly extension. The answer was a FIRM no. I was told I need a new letter from the US Embassy then I need two copies certified by the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Why two certified copies? I was also reminded that I will need a new doctors report. Last November he also insisted that I needed a doctors report even though after October of last year it was no longer needed. Since I have never had a problem there, I'll do as he asked.