How does my friend get marriage certificate certified if the country of origin does not have any diplomatic presence in Thailand?

[RonyPony]

My friend is moving here with his wife and will start working here next month he wants to get her a dependent visa which requires the marriage certificate the be certified by the Ministry of Foreign affairs but they wont certify it unless it has been certified by the Embassy of origin country . What solutions are there?

[BritTim]

What is your and the wife's nationality? Where did you get married? There are almost always solutions, but it depends on the answers to these two questions.

[new2here]

It’s not uncommon for some smaller countries to have a diplomatic presence in country A that also has representation or jurisdiction for nearby countries of B and C.  I believe they call them “Non-Resident Ambassadors” 

 

For example, there is no on-site Thai diplomatic representative to Ethiopia, but the Thai Embassy in Kenya is their Non-Resident Ambassador- so all the diplomatic processes (like visas for example) that would take place in Addis had there been an actual on-site ambassador, would take place in Nairobi. 

 

Check if that’s the case here.. It just might be that the ambassador to Thailand is non-resident and that it’s all done by a physical embassy in Jakarta, Singapore or maybe Hanoi.

 

[hotchilli]

18 hours ago, RonyPony said:

My friend is moving here with his wife and will start working here next month he wants to get her a dependent visa which requires the marriage certificate the be certified by the Ministry of Foreign affairs but they wont certify it unless it has been certified by the Embassy of origin country . What solutions are there?

Get one from your home country.

[TimF]

You get it certified in your home country and also stamped by the Thai embassy there. Then translate it and present at the ministry of foreign affairs in bangkok

[federicoP]

Are you sure that there are no consulates or embassies of other nations in Thailand that can take care of those who are natives of your friend's country?
Generally there are agreements between different nations for this very reason.

If you tell what nationality your friend's wife is, maybe you will find help more easily

[LikeItHot]

Can't speak for every country and you didn't mention the one in question but I have experience in acquiring vital records and having them "certified" for use in foreign nations.  Firstly an embassy can't help you.  The record must be requested by an authorized party from the repository that maintains the document.  The copy will be notorized in some fashion and then, again typically, an apostille would be issued by a Foreign Affairs official certifying the local authorities signature.  In the US, only as an example, a State issued document would be apostilled by the Secretary of State from the State where the document originated from.  At that time the document is valid for use at any level including court cases.  The curve ball is Thailand is not part of the Hague Convention so while it is not possible to receive an apostille on a document here in Thailand they may still honor it from a foreign nation.  The alternate here is what is called a legalization which is done at foreign embassies here.  Keep in mind you also did not mention if a translation of the original is required.  If it is, that translation can usually be certified by an embassy/consulate but then also requires apostille before considered valid for foreign use.  You need to find out exactly what they want.  Words like "certified" can have a variety of different meaning in many scenarios.  Especially in Thailand where no matter what you give them it's never enough.

[JensenZ]

10 hours ago, TimF said:

You get it certified in your home country and also stamped by the Thai embassy there. Then translate it and present at the ministry of foreign affairs in bangkok

Obviously, there is no Thai Embassy "there" in this case. I would suggest going to the Immigration office and asking them what would be acceptable to prove the authenticity of the marriage certificate. A certification by an appropriate government office in the home country might be acceptable. Possibly even an affidavit from a lawyer in the home country could suffice.

Edited October 20, 2023 by JensenZ

[federicoP]

On 10/19/2023 at 7:41 PM, RonyPony said:

dependent visa which requires the marriage certificate the be certified by the Ministry of Foreign affairs

Maybe my case is different, I have a non-O retirement and my wife a dependent extension, my Immigration Office is Phuket.

Every year I get a marriage certificate in my home country from the local authorities, I translate it in Thai and I go to the Consulate of my country that certificates only the correct translation, not the document content.

 

Probably the case of your friend is different but, like somebody else told you,  it is worth to double check what they really want.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 10/20/2023 at 1:41 AM, RonyPony said:

My friend is moving here with his wife and will start working here next month he wants to get her a dependent visa which requires the marriage certificate the be certified by the Ministry of Foreign affairs but they wont certify it unless it has been certified by the Embassy of origin country . What solutions are there?

First port of call should be the Ministry of Foreign affairs. They will probably know better what to do that us on here. I'm sure it happened before.

[lordgrinz]

20 hours ago, LikeItHot said:

Can't speak for every country and you didn't mention the one in question but I have experience in acquiring vital records and having them "certified" for use in foreign nations.  Firstly an embassy can't help you.  The record must be requested by an authorized party from the repository that maintains the document.  The copy will be notorized in some fashion and then, again typically, an apostille would be issued by a Foreign Affairs official certifying the local authorities signature.  In the US, only as an example, a State issued document would be apostilled by the Secretary of State from the State where the document originated from.  At that time the document is valid for use at any level including court cases.  The curve ball is Thailand is not part of the Hague Convention so while it is not possible to receive an apostille on a document here in Thailand they may still honor it from a foreign nation.  The alternate here is what is called a legalization which is done at foreign embassies here.  Keep in mind you also did not mention if a translation of the original is required.  If it is, that translation can usually be certified by an embassy/consulate but then also requires apostille before considered valid for foreign use.  You need to find out exactly what they want.  Words like "certified" can have a variety of different meaning in many scenarios.  Especially in Thailand where no matter what you give them it's never enough.

You missed a few steps in the US process, first you need a certified (Notary Signature) copy of the Marriage Certificate from the town/city you got married in, then you have to send that to the Secretary of State for the State you got married in to certify (Secretary of State Letter - Signature) verifying the Local Notaries Signature, then you need to send those return documents to the Secretary of State for the USA to have that certified (Secretary of State for the USA's Signature) verifying the Secretary of State Signature for your State. Then you send that bonded together document to the Thai Embassy in the USA and have them Certify (Thai Counselor's Signature/Stamp) the whole document. It is now an Apostle of the marriage you can use here, however there is one more step, you need to bring that to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs office at IO Chaengwattana location and have them certify (apply a Stamp Signature) to verify the Signature of the Thai Counselor back in the Thai Embassy in the USA. Its a long drawn out process, but technically its the correct process for verifying a marriage from the USA that can be used in Thailand. You may get away with less, and probably will, but that's up to whatever the IO or local Amphur allows.

 

Did mine through the Chicago office:

https://cgchicago.thaiembassy.org/en/page/consular-services-legalization?menu=621348a4b177f672f635e633

 

US State Department Apostille Requirements:

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/records-and-authentications/authenticate-your-document/apostille-requirements.html

Edited October 21, 2023 by lordgrinz

[LikeItHot]

33 minutes ago, lordgrinz said:

You missed a few steps in the US process, first you need a certified (Notary Signature) copy of the Marriage Certificate from the town/city you got married in, then you have to send that to the Secretary of State for the State you got married in to certify (Secretary of State Letter - Signature) verifying the Local Notaries Signature, then you need to send those return documents to the Secretary of State for the USA to have that certified (Secretary of State for the USA's Signature) verifying the Secretary of State Signature for your State. Then you send that bonded together document to the Thai Embassy in the USA and have them Certify (Thai Counselor's Signature/Stamp) the whole document. It is now an Apostle of the marriage you can use here, however there is one more step, you need to bring that to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs office at IO Chaengwattana location and have them certify (apply a Stamp Signature) to verify the Signature of the Thai Counselor back in the Thai Embassy in the USA. Its a long drawn out process, but technically its the correct process for verifying a marriage from the USA that can be used in Thailand. You may get away with less, and probably will, but that's up to whatever the IO or local Amphur allows.

 

Did mine through the Chicago office:

https://cgchicago.thaiembassy.org/en/page/consular-services-legalization?menu=621348a4b177f672f635e633

 

US State Department Apostille Requirements:

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/records-and-authentications/authenticate-your-document/apostille-requirements.html

I know all the steps but didn't write them out as the OP didn't say he was from the States so didn't want to waste my breath like you just did.  But as long as you seem interested you left out that some States, NY for example, require the city/town clerk signature to be certified by the County Clerk before going to Albany for apostille.

[lordgrinz]

14 minutes ago, LikeItHot said:

I know all the steps but didn't write them out as the OP didn't say he was from the States so didn't want to waste my breath like you just did.  But as long as you seem interested you left out that some States, NY for example, require the city/town clerk signature to be certified by the County Clerk before going to Albany for apostille.

Well either way, the links might help people moving forward. But in my case, I have the Apostille, but didn't end up using it here yet, I got it afterwards because I was afraid the process my wife went through might not work (or could be questioned in the future). We ended up just translating the original USA town notarized Marriage Certificate, having that Stamped at MFA, then also using a Sworn Personal Affidavit at the US Embassy saying we got married in the USA, also having that Stamped at MFA. We use the Original Marriage Certificate, the Translated one, and a copy of the original Affidavit every year, along with the Kor Ror 22, and that has worked for 7 years now.

[deptrai]

On 10/21/2023 at 7:40 AM, lordgrinz said:

You missed a few steps in the US process, first you need a certified (Notary Signature) copy of the Marriage Certificate from the town/city you got married in, then you have to send that to the Secretary of State for the State you got married in to certify (Secretary of State Letter - Signature) verifying the Local Notaries Signature, then you need to send those return documents to the Secretary of State for the USA to have that certified (Secretary of State for the USA's Signature) verifying the Secretary of State Signature for your State. Then you send that bonded together document to the Thai Embassy in the USA and have them Certify (Thai Counselor's Signature/Stamp) the whole document. It is now an Apostle of the marriage you can use here, however there is one more step, you need to bring that to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs office at IO Chaengwattana location and have them certify (apply a Stamp Signature) to verify the Signature of the Thai Counselor back in the Thai Embassy in the USA. Its a long drawn out process, but technically its the correct process for verifying a marriage from the USA that can be used in Thailand. You may get away with less, and probably will, but that's up to whatever the IO or local Amphur allows.

 

Did mine through the Chicago office:

https://cgchicago.thaiembassy.org/en/page/consular-services-legalization?menu=621348a4b177f672f635e633

 

US State Department Apostille Requirements:

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/records-and-authentications/authenticate-your-document/apostille-requirements.html

Thank you for more thoroughly outlining the USA process.  I was married in Nevada, currently live in Texas and will be immigrating to Thailand in two years or so with my wife.

[TimF]

On 10/21/2023 at 12:41 AM, JensenZ said:

Obviously, there is no Thai Embassy "there" in this case. I would suggest going to the Immigration office and asking them what would be acceptable to prove the authenticity of the marriage certificate. A certification by an appropriate government office in the home country might be acceptable. Possibly even an affidavit from a lawyer in the home country could suffice.

The OP said "country of origin does not have any diplomatic presence in Thailand" - they did not say there wasn't a Thai embassy where they got married

[TimF]

In addition to my previous post, I had to do this and was in Thailand. I googled and there are loads of companies who will handle the process for anywhere in the world (they claim) - I just DHL my document to them and they did it all and DHL it back to me. I used https://www.vitalconsular.com/legalisation.html