Analysis The Gaza diplomacy of Biden, Sunak and co seems to be heading for failure

[Andre0720]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

Hamas bombs Israel

Israel bombs Gaza, a tiny fraction of 1% are Hamas

 

This is not an answer.  Israel should only go after Hamas, collateral damage of thousands of Palestinians can't be right, it sounds like a war crime to me.

 

Imagine a shooter kills people in a market and runs into a nearby bank containing 200 people, it would not be acceptable to kill everyone in the bank in order to kill the shooter, yet the analogy isn't far off.

 

A better man would not retaliate this way.

And how would  a good man respond to this? In other words, HAMAS should go only after who?

 

Dozens of Hamas militants who had blown through Israel’s heavily fortified separation fence and crossed into the country from Gaza opened fire on about 3,500 young Israelis who had come together for a joyous night of electronic music to celebrate the Jewish holiday of Sukkotaza. Saturday’s attack on the open-air Tribe of Nova music festival is believed to be the worst civilian massacre in Israeli history, with at least 260 dead and a still undetermined number taken hostage.

[newbee2022]

3 minutes ago, Purdey said:

Duh, because prior to 1946 there was just one state that belonged to Palestine.  What would one state be called? Greater Israel? 

Why not leave it to Palestine? Something wrong with it? 

[Purdey]

5 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

looked at a map, pointed, and said "let's go THERE". 

Exactly what they did  saying it was the promised land, given to them by their invisible friend in the sky.

Palestine was a British protectorate at the time and was dead against giving it to Jews as their Homeland.

The Jews there at the time did nothing. David ben Gurion was Polish. 

[Purdey]

Just now, newbee2022 said:

Why not leave it to Palestine? Something wrong with it? 

Bit like saying, why didn't the Europeans leave America to the native people. 

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

Hamas bombs Israel

Israel bombs Gaza, a tiny fraction of 1% are Hamas

 

This is not an answer.  Israel should only go after Hamas, collateral damage of thousands of Palestinians can't be right, it sounds like a war crime to me.

 

Imagine a shooter kills people in a market and runs into a nearby bank containing 200 people, it would not be acceptable to kill everyone in the bank in order to kill the shooter, yet the analogy isn't far off.

 

A better man would not retaliate this way.

Hamas has continually been firing rockets at Israel for years, that's not the catalyst that started this war on 7th Oct. Now take your head out of the sand.

[Hanaguma]

15 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

Bad point so far.

Who sows hate will reap hate! One million of Gaza children will grow up with this mantra. Israel is to make peace with it's neighbours as a Middle East country.😳

Sadly, the children of Gaza have been growing up with a "kill the Jews" message for years. Hell, even the material provided by the UN portrays Jews as treacherous and hateful, removes Israel from maps, and describes killing Jews as a hobby.

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/unrwa-textbooks-still-include-hate-antisemitism-despite-pledge-to-remove-watchdog/

 

[Hanaguma]

11 minutes ago, Purdey said:

Exactly what they did  saying it was the promised land, given to them by their invisible friend in the sky.

Palestine was a British protectorate at the time and was dead against giving it to Jews as their Homeland.

The Jews there at the time did nothing. David ben Gurion was Polish. 

...and the fact that Jews had been living there for thousands of years had nothing to do with it? That the area contained their holiest city was sheer coincidence? Give me a break. 

[newbee2022]

1 minute ago, Hanaguma said:

Sadly, the children of Gaza have been growing up with a "kill the Jews" message for years. Hell, even the material provided by the UN portrays Jews as treacherous and hateful, removes Israel from maps, and describes killing Jews as a hobby.

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/unrwa-textbooks-still-include-hate-antisemitism-despite-pledge-to-remove-watchdog/

 

Ah, and bombing Gaza will stop the hatred???

[JBChiangRai]

11 minutes ago, Andre0720 said:

And how would  a good man respond to this? In other words, HAMAS should go only after who?

 

Dozens of Hamas militants who had blown through Israel’s heavily fortified separation fence and crossed into the country from Gaza opened fire on about 3,500 young Israelis who had come together for a joyous night of electronic music to celebrate the Jewish holiday of Sukkotaza. Saturday’s attack on the open-air Tribe of Nova music festival is believed to be the worst civilian massacre in Israeli history, with at least 260 dead and a still undetermined number taken hostage.

I never commented or condoned Hamas.  Did you mean to say Israel in your first sentence?

 

I condemn Hamas's attack on Israel, I condemn Israel's response.  The only people I don't condemn is the innocent Palestinians dying in their thousands at Israel's hands.

 

Two wrongs don't make a right.

 

5 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Hamas has continually been firing rockets at Israel for years, that's not the catalyst that started this war on 7th Oct. Now take your head out of the sand.

As a Brit, I am fully aware of the history and we must take the blame for initiating the whole problem. My head is not in the sand, I am very well informed about the history of this conflict.  As I said above, I condemn Hamas for their attack, I also condemn Israel for their response in killing thousands of innocents.  another solution needs to be found, but collateral damage on this scale is not acceptable, it looks more like bloody revenge to me than anything else.

[newbee2022]

12 minutes ago, Purdey said:

Bit like saying, why didn't the Europeans leave America to the native people. 

Agreed. Would have been better. At that point evolution stopped

[newbee2022]

1 minute ago, JBChiangRai said:

I never commented or condoned Hamas.  Did you mean to say Israel in your first sentence?

 

I condemn Hamas's attack on Israel, I condemn Israel's response.  The only people I don't condemn is the innocent Palestinians dying in their thousands at Israel's hands.

 

Two wrongs don't make a right.

 

As a Brit, I am fully aware of the history and we must take the blame for initiating the whole problem. My head is not in the sand, I am very well informed about the history of this conflict.  As I said above, I condemn Hamas for their attack, I also condemn Israel for their response in killing thousands of innocents.  another solution needs to be found, but collateral damage on this scale is not acceptable, it looks more like bloody revenge to me than anything else.

Thanks, one of the better comments here. Most here think of bombing as an ultimate solution

[newbee2022]

22 minutes ago, Andre0720 said:

And how would  a good man respond to this? In other words, HAMAS should go only after who?

 

Dozens of Hamas militants who had blown through Israel’s heavily fortified separation fence and crossed into the country from Gaza opened fire on about 3,500 young Israelis who had come together for a joyous night of electronic music to celebrate the Jewish holiday of Sukkotaza. Saturday’s attack on the open-air Tribe of Nova music festival is believed to be the worst civilian massacre in Israeli history, with at least 260 dead and a still undetermined number taken hostage.

A Good Man would calm down and use his brain.

Hate creates hate.

So to stop hate, rage and revenge, peace talks are necessary NOW, just to prevent Gaza children growing up with this terrible mantra. Killings have to stop, fences and borders have to be removed, Hamas terrorists to be jailed.

[Hanaguma]

3 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

Ah, and bombing Gaza will stop the hatred???

Nope, but a selective bombing campaign, combined with a thorough cleansing on the area, WILL eliminate much of the infrastructure that Hamas uses to commit acts of terrorism.  If Israel simply wanted to bomb Gaza and commit mass murder, it would have been done by now. They have been remarkably restrained in their response up to now.

 

As for stopping the hatred, that is difficult. Children who have grown up being indoctrinated into a death cult should be seen as victims of mental abuse, and treated as such. Step one is making sure they are not taught in school with hateful and violent material (thanks, UN). After that, let them grow up in an atmosphere that encourages peace and not violence.  

[Hanaguma]

5 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

Agreed. Would have been better. At that point evolution stopped

Sure. Leave the natives to kill and enslave one another.  Great solution. 

[Morch]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

Fortunately, it's not my decision to make.  But killing thousands of innocent Palestinians to rid Gaza of Hamas wouldn't be an option I would consider.

None of us decides, obviously. I'm asking how do you suppose things could be, realistically, tackled in a different manner. Not talking about what should or should not have been done years ago. Not talking about some perfect world out of touch fantasies.

 

Hamas killed a whole lot of Israeli civilians. Abducted hundreds. How should Israel respond to that?

[newbee2022]

Just now, Hanaguma said:

Nope, but a selective bombing campaign, combined with a thorough cleansing on the area, WILL eliminate

Yeah, there are special bombs on the market to make a difference between Hamas terrorists and innocent children???? What a macabre joke.

Shame on you👎

[Morch]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/french-president-emmanuel-macron-visit-israel-coming-days-2023-10-22/

French president Emmanuel Macron to visit Israel in coming days

 

That is one leader that has to be concerned about the reaction to israel's attack on Gaza, given the very large and very angry Muslim population in France.

 

And yet, he chose differently then your advice and prescribe. So did other Western leaders.

You keep making them appeasement and scaremongering posts. 

[newbee2022]

4 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Sure. Leave the natives to kill and enslave one another.  Great solution. 

You got me wrong. Evolution stopped when Europeans entered America. The result you can watch every day.

[Nick Carter icp]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/french-president-emmanuel-macron-visit-israel-coming-days-2023-10-22/

French president Emmanuel Macron to visit Israel in coming days

 

That is one leader that has to be concerned about the reaction to israel's attack on Gaza, given the very large and very angry Muslim population in France.

You keep issuing thinly veiled threats , like don't dare to upset a Muslims because they will attack you . 

   We should bow down to Muslims and fully agree with whatever they say , otherwise they will kill us .

[Morch]

46 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

And.....why not a ONE state solution? 

Or do you separate Muslims, Jews, Mexicans, Blacks, Asians in US?????😳

Because look at Lebanon. Or Iraq.

Come up with a ME example of working, peaceful bi-national country, and we could discuss this.

Also, you may consult the Hamas Charter - it does not allow for this.

[newbee2022]

30 minutes ago, Purdey said:

Exactly what they did  saying it was the promised land, given to them by their invisible friend in the sky.

Palestine was a British protectorate at the time and was dead against giving it to Jews as their Homeland.

The Jews there at the time did nothing. David ben Gurion was Polish. 

Right. Before it was made to that Promised Land, Jews, Muslims and Christians lived there together in peace. Only after the foreign Jews invaded the country problems started, initiated by the New Israelian citizens.

[JBChiangRai]

10 minutes ago, Morch said:

None of us decides, obviously. I'm asking how do you suppose things could be, realistically, tackled in a different manner. Not talking about what should or should not have been done years ago. Not talking about some perfect world out of touch fantasies.

 

Hamas killed a whole lot of Israeli civilians. Abducted hundreds. How should Israel respond to that?

Their God would tell them to turn the other cheek.

 

A flippant answer I grant you, but any solution should not involve killing thousands of innocents.

 

Israel is at war with Hamas, not Gaza.

[Morch]

14 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

A Good Man would calm down and use his brain.

Hate creates hate.

So to stop hate, rage and revenge, peace talks are necessary NOW, just to prevent Gaza children growing up with this terrible mantra. Killings have to stop, fences and borders have to be removed, Hamas terrorists to be jailed.

As usual, the pleas for rational, level-headed response are one sided. How about Hamas changing its standing agenda? Or even express willingness to discuss anything? How about releasing the hostages? Or not sacrificing the people of Gaza for the 'cause'?

 

How would Hamas terrorist be 'jailed'? By whom?

 

You keep on going on as if the hatred is one sided, that's not the case.

 

[newbee2022]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

Because look at Lebanon. Or Iraq.

Come up with a ME example of working, peaceful bi-national country, and we could discuss this.

Also, you may consult the Hamas Charter - it does not allow for this.

The Hamas charter is not speaking for Palestine but only a few thousands people.

And one of those good examples of working countries is our neighbour, Malaysia.

[Nick Carter icp]

3 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

Right. Before it was made to that Promised Land, Jews, Muslims and Christians lived there together in peace. Only after the foreign Jews invaded the country problems started, initiated by the New Israelian citizens.

There were about 100 massacres of Jews and Arabs with 1000's killed in the land from 1920 to Israel's formation in 1948

[Walker88]

4 hours ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

Joe has been on the wrong end of every foreign policy for 5 decades... why would he change now.

Nonsense.

 

What would your messiah trump do?

 

No doubt toss rolls of paper towels.

 

Or maybe pressure Netanyahu to offer up some dirt on Biden in exchange for aid.

[Morch]

24 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

Ah, and bombing Gaza will stop the hatred???

Doubt anyone seriously claimed this.

Was the Hamas attack helpful on that front?

[Morch]

39 minutes ago, Purdey said:

Exactly what they did  saying it was the promised land, given to them by their invisible friend in the sky.

Palestine was a British protectorate at the time and was dead against giving it to Jews as their Homeland.

The Jews there at the time did nothing. David ben Gurion was Polish. 

Let me guess - you consider yourself 'objective'.

[Morch]

45 minutes ago, Purdey said:

Duh, because prior to 1946 there was just one state that belonged to Palestine.  What would one state be called? Greater Israel? 

There was no Palestinian state. You're either ignorant, making up stuff or playing word games.

[Morch]

51 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

Bad point so far.

Who sows hate will reap hate! One million of Gaza children will grow up with this mantra. Israel is to make peace with it's neighbours as a Middle East country.😳

And many Israeli kids will grow up bearing the trauma of the Hamas attack - more likely to hate Palestinians. Obviously, you are not too bothered about the hate Palestinians sow and reap.

 

Unclear what your last comment was about. What does 'as a Middle East country' supposed to mean?