Israeli forces pushing into south Gaza

[CharlieH]

 

Israeli ground forces are pushing into southern Gaza, after three days of heavy bombardment.

Initial reports from Israeli army radio effectively confirmed Israel has launched a ground operation to the north of Khan Younis.

The BBC has also verified images of an Israeli tank operating near the city.

The head of the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) later told troops the IDF was also fighting "strongly and thoroughly" in south Gaza.

Lt General Herzi Halevi was speaking to reservists from the Gaza division about military objectives and the IDF's killing of Hamas commanders.

He told the soldiers: "We fought strongly and thoroughly in the northern Gaza Strip, and we are also doing it now in the southern Gaza Strip".

 

An IDF spokesman later confirmed Israel "continues to expand the ground incursion" across all of Gaza, including troops "conducting face to face battles with terrorists".

Since a week-long ceasefire ended on Friday, Israel has resumed a large-scale bombing campaign on Gaza, which residents of Khan Younis have described as the heaviest wave of attacks so far.

The seven-day truce saw Hamas release 110 hostages being held in Gaza in return for 240 Palestinians being released from Israeli prisons.

On Sunday morning, the Israeli army issued evacuation orders for several districts of Khan Younis, urging people to leave immediately.

Israeli authorities believe members of the Hamas leadership are hiding in the city, where hundreds of thousands of people have been sheltering after fleeing fighting in the north in the early stages of the war.

A UN official has described a "degree of panic" he has not seen before in a Gaza hospital, after the Israeli military shifted the focus of its offensive to the south.

 

James Elder, from the children's agency Unicef, described Nasser Medical Hospital in Khan Younis as a "warzone".

An adviser to Israel's prime minister said Israel is making "maximum effort" to avoid killing civilians.

Mr Elder told the BBC he could hear constant large explosions close to the Nasser hospital and children were arriving with head injuries, terrible burns, and shrapnel from recent blasts.

"It's a hospital I've gone to regularly and the children know me now, the families know me now. Those same people are grabbing my hand, or grabbing my shirt saying 'please take us somewhere safe. Where is safe?'"

"They are unfortunately asking a question to which the only answer is there is nowhere safe. And that includes for them, as they know, that hospital," he said.

The Hamas-run health ministry in Gaza says more than 500 people have been killed since the bombing resumed.

 

More than 15,500 people have been killed in the strip since the war began, the ministry also said.

 

FULL STORY

 

[nobodysfriend]

6 hours ago, CharlieH said:

An adviser to Israel's prime minister said Israel is making "maximum effort" to avoid killing civilians.

 

I just can't stand it anymore , all that lying ... what about 10000 dead women and children ...?

[Morch]

1 hour ago, nobodysfriend said:

 

I just can't stand it anymore , all that lying ... what about 10000 dead women and children ...?

 

The Gazans own government doesn't seem to care much.

[nobodysfriend]

52 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

The Gazans own government doesn't seem to care much.

 

I think you mean the Hamas , not the Gazan government ?

 

Shame on the Hamas for sacrificing the gazan population for their sinister cause .

They were well aware of Israels response to their attack on the 7th .

Ugly extremist idiots .

But Israels reponse is becoming increasingly out of proportion .

If the Israelis do not stop their massacre of normal people soon , the Hamas will reach one important goal for them : to portray Israel as a fascist state .

But , already " traditionally " Israel's government does not seem to care ...

 The quesion is : who will win what from this war ?

[simple1]

1 hour ago, nobodysfriend said:

 

I think you mean the Hamas , not the Gazan government ?

 

Shame on the Hamas for sacrificing the gazan population for their sinister cause .

They were well aware of Israels response to their attack on the 7th .

Ugly extremist idiots .

But Israels reponse is becoming increasingly out of proportion .

If the Israelis do not stop their massacre of normal people soon , the Hamas will reach one important goal for them : to portray Israel as a fascist state .

But , already " traditionally " Israel's government does not seem to care ...

 The quesion is : who will win what from this war ?

 

Hamas are the government of Gaza, though they haven't held elections since they 'won' in 2006 and took over in 2007.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, nobodysfriend said:

 

I think you mean the Hamas , not the Gazan government ?

 

Shame on the Hamas for sacrificing the gazan population for their sinister cause .

They were well aware of Israels response to their attack on the 7th .

Ugly extremist idiots .

But Israels reponse is becoming increasingly out of proportion .

If the Israelis do not stop their massacre of normal people soon , the Hamas will reach one important goal for them : to portray Israel as a fascist state .

But , already " traditionally " Israel's government does not seem to care ...

 The quesion is : who will win what from this war ?

 

I meant what I meant - Hamas is the government. There is no other, at least not in the Gaza Strip.

 

There is no good answer for this, if Israel fails to respond it's a Hamas Win. If Israel responds, Hamas goes for the victim card, and Wins anyway. There is no way to effectively conduct this war without massive civilian casualties or collective punishment. Sometimes there are no good answers. As for who will 'win' - that relates to what's considered winning, and this seems to be a bit fluid. It also relates to how long the war goes on.

 

Edited December 4, 2023 by Morch

[nobodysfriend]

11 hours ago, Morch said:

There is no way to effectively conduct this war without massive civilian casualties

 

Yes , but there have been enough of that already , no ?

 

Anyway I do not think that Israel will reach their goal to completely eliminate Hamas .

Even if they kill most of the militant members of Hamas , Hamas , as an organisation , will not just cease to exist ... even they lost most of their fighting power ...

They will continue their business in neighboring countries , reorganize and attack again .

For the muslim world , Israel will be the archenemy , no country to deal with .

Maybe , with a palestinian independent state , a peaceful solution can eventually be found .

[placeholder]

16 hours ago, Morch said:

 

The Gazans own government doesn't seem to care much.

Well, I guess that makes it okay then.

[Morch]

3 hours ago, nobodysfriend said:

 

Yes , but there have been enough of that already , no ?

 

Anyway I do not think that Israel will reach their goal to completely eliminate Hamas .

Even if they kill most of the militant members of Hamas , Hamas , as an organisation , will not just cease to exist ... even they lost most of their fighting power ...

They will continue their business in neighboring countries , reorganize and attack again .

For the muslim world , Israel will be the archenemy , no country to deal with .

Maybe , with a palestinian independent state , a peaceful solution can eventually be found .

 

 

You've cherry picked one line, and ignored the rest of the post, which goes toward answering your question. It's not a matter of 'enough', but of whether sides feel that goals were met etc.

 

I differentiate between what Israeli politicians say and what is actually possible. Totally 'eliminating' Hamas will not happen. Dealing it enough of a blow to render it a none-threat, and to marginalize it - that's achievable, if not easy to do. Past cases from the region (AQ, IS, PLO for example) suggest that this is not an unreasonable strategy. Hamas trying to 'continue its business' from neighboring country (Syria? Lebanon?) is not the same as having it in Israel's back yard - and not sure said neighboring countries will welcome the extra attention from Israel. Denying terrorist organizations a safe haven to conduct their affairs seem to work pretty well, actually.

 

Take a look at the ME - Israel is not loved, but the trend is for countries in the region to forge relations with it nevertheless, and even regardless of the Palestinian issue (paying lip service to that - sure). Even the current situation did not lead to any of them permanently breaking relations - and some among them will be quite content if Hamas either disappeared or its influence decimated.

 

A peace agreement would require at least two parties willing and able to negotiate and go through with things. Currently, not much on offer from either side.

 

I will point out that your post does not address the Hamas' part - there seems little accountability demanded there, no mention about Hamas goals being unachievable, no criticism of actions taken, nothing about Hamas's position vs. regional players, or even it's position regarding peace. People often seem to skip these, and focus almost entirely on Israel, maybe sometimes about the 'Palestinians' as a whole (which doesn't relate much to the political situation).

 

[Morch]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

Well, I guess that makes it okay then.

 

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Words fail you.

[Morch]

48 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Words fail you.