For people who have made a lot on crypto, what are you doing with regards to the tax rules next year?

Is there anybody here who has seen an accountant about it, and has some advice to share?

At the moment, it seems like the options are:

-Sell a chunk this month, before the new tax rules kick in.
-Take it on the chin, lose 15%

-Do something creative with tax loopholes
-Take a loan on AAVE to get cash into Thailand this tax year without actually selling
-Move to another country

I use it for monthly expenses, losing 15% will suck. I don't want to sell a lot right now if I can avoid it. Anyone have any better options/advice/ideas?


 

26 minutes ago, cleanac said:

-Take it on the chin, lose 15%

15% ??

 

If you are selling 'crypto' for 'fiat' its based on income levels this year (until 1/1/23)

 

However if you are selling 'Stablecoins' that are matured (12+ months) and sourced from a overseas company (income/dividends etc), it's 0% + what ever fees occur at point of conversion. 

 

From next year:

 

If its stablecoins that are earned before 1/1/23 then it's 'savings', if after it's income.

 

If crypto it's Income Tax + Withholding Tax + fee(s).

Couple other options:

1. P2P

2. Don't need to move to another country, just cash out in another country.  I don't know where you are from but if you had a bank account in another country, you could cash out there and then Wise money into Thailand.  Depending on how the new rules work out and what your other income is, may not get taxed that way.

Get a Crypto.com card and buy gold. However, you'll have to pay 3%, but if you stake CRO, you'll get 3% 'çashback'. 

Maybe Revolut as a ramp off?

Best way is Binance P2p, but they might stop this; I heard they did on Philipines.

Htx.com and poloniex.com have plenty of p2p. Just withdraw cash with overseas bank account or withdraw 10k abroad and fly it in. Not see what is complicated.

On 12/4/2023 at 11:07 PM, Jenkins9039 said:

From next year:

If its stablecoins that are earned before 1/1/23 then it's 'savings', if after it's income.

If crypto it's Income Tax + Withholding Tax + fee(s).

Income tax based on what ? What are the rules ? Staking rules ? Token swap rules ? Capital gain ? Retroactive on how many years ? I can see the complexity of European crypto regulation rules, but at least, we "can" understand how the calculation is done and some companies as Waltio can help you with nice tools to report to tax office ... but in Thailand, what are the official rules for next year as it seems to change quite often ?

Can somebody elaborate on this? 

1) I'd keep it on a decentralized wallet
2) try P2P
3) Once I am ready to cashout on a sizeable amount, I will look into countries I can open a business and get it out tax free.

CARF is coming - Crypto Asset Reporting Framework. Be aware and plan accordingly.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-leads-international-crackdown-on-crypto-tax-evaders

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/international-joint-statement-on-the-crypto-asset-reporting-framework/collective-engagement-to-implement-the-crypto-asset-reporting-framework

 

 

16 minutes ago, Conno said:

CARF is coming - Crypto Asset Reporting Framework. Be aware and plan accordingly.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-leads-international-crackdown-on-crypto-tax-evaders

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/international-joint-statement-on-the-crypto-asset-reporting-framework/collective-engagement-to-implement-the-crypto-asset-reporting-framework

 

 

So they tax us on the fiat we used to buy crypto with , and now they want to tax us on the so called scam money they say isn’t even real money? Did I get that right ….

27 minutes ago, goldenbrwn1 said:

So they tax us on the fiat we used to buy crypto with , and now they want to tax us on the so called scam money they say isn’t even real money? Did I get that right ….

I'd say you got it 100% right with one addition. Fiat is a bigger scam than crypto ever was and has been since fractional reserve currencies were dreamed up. But not 1 in 10,000 probably understand that my friend. Plus we have the new version to look forward to - CBDCs - If they are accepted globally then it's game over. Imagine getting free money then only being able to spend it in a 4km range of your cell lol. Later they'll say 'You've used your carbon allowance for the month no more travelling for you sunny Jim'. Or how about taxing you directly out of your wallet. Just think of the entertainment factor of watching your balance drop on autopilot 55555. Glad I'm an old git.

Edited December 12, 20232 yr by Conno

On 12/4/2023 at 10:39 PM, cleanac said:

For people who have made a lot on crypto, what are you doing with regards to the tax rules next year?

Is there anybody here who has seen an accountant about it, and has some advice to share?

At the moment, it seems like the options are:

-Sell a chunk this month, before the new tax rules kick in.
-Take it on the chin, lose 15%

-Do something creative with tax loopholes
-Take a loan on AAVE to get cash into Thailand this tax year without actually selling
-Move to another country

I use it for monthly expenses, losing 15% will suck. I don't want to sell a lot right now if I can avoid it. Anyone have any better options/advice/ideas?


 

I think 15% is not so bad. It means your money is legit. You are paying your taxes in this country. Your tax records are all ok. Your money in your thai account is legal. no red flags. 15% is a no brainer. 

 

If you sell it on an exchange in your own country, for example, oz..... then use your Wise app to convert into thai and spend that way here, you will still have tax issues in your home country. And I think it will be a lot higher than 15%

 

Can you keep us updated bc it affects us all. I asked my accountant and she said dont report it blah blah. She is clueless I think 

On 12/4/2023 at 11:08 PM, QuantumQuandry said:

just cash out in another country.  I don't know where you are from but if you had a bank account in another country, you could cash out there and then Wise money

If you sell it on an exchange in your own country, for example, oz..... then use your Wise app to convert into thai and spend that way here, you will still have tax issues in your home country. And I think it will be a lot higher than 15%

2 hours ago, advancebooking said:

If you sell it on an exchange in your own country, for example, oz..... then use your Wise app to convert into thai and spend that way here, you will still have tax issues in your home country. And I think it will be a lot higher than 15%

 

But who said it has to be your home country?

On 12/10/2023 at 10:36 AM, NiwPix said:

1) I'd keep it on a decentralized wallet
2) try P2P
3) Once I am ready to cashout on a sizeable amount, I will look into countries I can open a business and get it out tax free.

I used P2P few months and have got card blocked.

Edited December 29, 20232 yr by Dmitry2222

On 12/12/2023 at 9:30 PM, advancebooking said:

I think 15% is not so bad. It means your money is legit. You are paying your taxes in this country. Your tax records are all ok. Your money in your thai account is legal. no red flags. 15% is a no brainer. 

 

If you sell it on an exchange in your own country, for example, oz..... then use your Wise app to convert into thai and spend that way here, you will still have tax issues in your home country. And I think it will be a lot higher than 15%

 

Can you keep us updated bc it affects us all. I asked my accountant and she said dont report it blah blah. She is clueless I think 

As a UK citizen it would be tax free to sell overseas and wise the funds into Thailand (pay income tax in Thailand).

On 12/29/2023 at 11:29 AM, Dmitry2222 said:

I used P2P few months and have got card blocked.

Don't do P2P bank based.

Edited January 25, 20242 yr by Jenkins9039

On 12/12/2023 at 9:30 PM, advancebooking said:

I think 15% is not so bad. It means your money is legit. You are paying your taxes in this country. Your tax records are all ok. Your money in your thai account is legal. no red flags. 15% is a no brainer. 

 

If you sell it on an exchange in your own country, for example, oz..... then use your Wise app to convert into thai and spend that way here, you will still have tax issues in your home country. And I think it will be a lot higher than 15%

 

Can you keep us updated bc it affects us all. I asked my accountant and she said dont report it blah blah. She is clueless I think 

 

I heard that the 15% capital gains tax is in addition to personal income tax which will be applied to whatever is left after paying the 15% capital gains tax.

 

It's an extra tax.

 

I know this is not the way capital gains tax works elsewhere in the world but this is what I heard.

 

I would like to consult an accountant who can provide me with absolutely 100% correct and current rules so that I can avoid paying any tax and I'm prepared to go to some lengths to do this as it's a large amount and it won't happen until 2025 at the earliest so I have plenty of time to plan a move out of the country to one or more other jurisdictions so I am not tax resident anywhere in either 2025 or 2026.

 

I've been searching for clarification on these tax rules and asked a few AIs where I have paid accounts for, the new Grok on X.com came up with this little gem

 

 

I'm not sure how accurate it is but this needs investigating as we approach what could be the largest bull run so far.

 

 

Edited February 23, 20242 yr by ukrules

46 minutes ago, ukrules said:

I've been searching for clarification on these tax rules and asked a few AIs where I have paid accounts for, the new Grok on X.com came up with this little gem

 

 

I'm not sure how accurate it is but this needs investigating as we approach what could be the largest bull run so far.

 

 

That is incorrect, the correct answer is in the Simple Tax Guide..

 

Capital Gains in Thailand is charged at Personal Income Tax (PIT) rates but a withholding tax of 15% is levied on all proceeds which can be offset against the PIT. This is no different from the with holding tax on savings account interest which can be used to offset any tax liability.

 

https://sherrings.com/cryptocurrency-income-personal-tax-thailand.html

 

 

 

 

6 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

a withholding tax of 15% is levied on all proceeds which can be offset against the PIT

 

The withholding tax of 15% was never implemented and rescinded, no exchanges in Thailand charge a withholding tax.

https://support.bitkub.com/en/support/solutions/articles/151000033321-cryptocurrency-tax-and-frequently-asked-questions

 

I'm still digging around on the capital gains thing, Sherrings is out of date on this subject.

 

Edited February 23, 20242 yr by ukrules

We should keep this thread going. There will be many looking to cashout this year and next year.

Searching for more info on this... Are there any news?