Threat of having a UK bank account forcefully closed if you are not UK resident.

[EcureuilTenace]

Hi, all

You may be aware that losing their UK bank accounts has been a reality for some. It happened to me with my credit card account 4 years ago. But that wasn’t as consequential as losing my UK current account would be and that is a distinct threat now.

I am a Belgian pensioner residing in Thailand, but British citizens are as much at risk than me.

I worked in the UK for 40 years. My UK state and private pensions are paid in my UK bank account. I transfer money to a Thai bank account as and when needed using Wise (formerly  Transferwise). For many various reasons, I do not like to have my pensions paid directly in Thailand. That would definitely be the most  unsatisfactory solution for me if my UK account was to close.

There is no chance that another UK bank will let me open a new account and it is the same story in Belgium (i.e. not resident).

I looked at banks offering expats’ accounts and didn’t like what I saw.

For example, the terms of one of them:

-          £5,000 to open an account.

-          £60/quarter charge if you go below (free for me at present and I  have a £10,000 overdraft facility)

-          Not bearing interests (although not much, mine does)

-          £20 for any online transfer to another bank (free for me with my current bank)

-          2.75% commission for visa debit card foreign exchange commission (I get less than 1% with my Wise transfers)

I looked at other expats’ banks with varying levels of dismay -  one wants a £100,000 deposit to open an account. If you are interested to look yourself, here is a link to a list of such banks:

https://www.expertsforexpats.com/expat-resources/useful-sites/best-expat-bank-accounts/

I also thought of using Wise (formerly Tansferwise) which offers “accounts”, but their niche is foreign exchange, they are not really a bank. I get a very good service and rates for transfers to Thailand, but only limited amounts of money just pass through them, they do not hold it. Somehow, I’ am not comfortable with having them looking after my money as a bank. I do not have any experience of a Wise account but perhaps one of you see Wise as a solution or part of it?

There is the option of using a family member account or getting them to create one for me but that has its own set of problems, some I am probably not even aware of yet.

Trying not to complicate things unnecessarily, I must still mention the other threat on the horizon: Thailand taxing foreign income. Tax-agreements are a different complicated subject really, but if it came to being double-taxed, the ability to pay goods and services in Thailand with a non-Thai account/ card would become important – so the Thai authorities would not see an income, just spending. For the moment, they could consider regular transfers into my Thai bank account as  income.

My current bank is a problem regarding this last point: they will not post replacement card in Thailand, citing frequent fraud instances. I have to temporarily change my bank UK address to my son’s one and put it back when he has courier it back to me. My bank cancelling a card for suspicious activity is common in my circumstances, so I do not dare to use my card because of the hassle.

Any views or experiences to tell on all this?

Kind regards to all

[stratocaster]

Barclays bank have announced that as a cost cutting plan, they are examining ALL current accounts, and accounts that generate no income for the bank, for example no service charges, will be closed. This is an addition measure from the overseas residents accounts closure announced in September.

[Red Phoenix]

@EcureuilTenace - Like yourself I am Belgian pensioner living in Thailand, but with the difference that I kept my official residence in Belgium (by officially moving to my parents address).

I am well aware of the huge potential problems that might arise when keeping my money and having my pension paid to a bank outside Thailand.  And my current (imperfect) solution is to have

- a main Belgian Bank-account (where I have two accounts, and 2 debit-cards and 3 credit-cards, one of them being a Golden credit-card - the other ones being free)

- a 'reserve' Belgian Bank-account (with a debit- and credit-card)

This in case there would be an accessibility problem with either of them.  And I also keep less than 100.000,- Euro on each bank, as that is the protection limit when they go belly-up, which is unlikely as both these banks are rock-solid and conservative with how they invest their funds.

I also opened an Internet bank-account with German-based N26, voted last year Best bank in the World (and have a debit-card from that account).  When you have a Belgian passport you would be able to also open such an Internet bank-account at N26.  Howeverm when you opt for their unbelievable generous YOU-account (do check it out) you would need a Belgian address to send the debit-card to.  

Finally I also have a savings account (with debit-card) and Fixed deposit account with Thai Kasikorn bank.

= = =

You also wrote that you are using WISE but are not comfortable with having them looking after your money as a bank.

I also have a WISE account, and use it to spice my Kasikorn account.  But I also have a Multiple-Currency account with WISE (and debit-card to that account which allows me to withdraw money from an ATM at the Wise favorable exchange-rate). That would probably be a good alternative for you too, and the fact that WISE is not a regular bank but rather a foreign-exchange clearing-house is imo actually a Pre rather than being uncomfortable that your money is kept by them. 

= = =

It is prudent not to put all your eggs in one basket, as it looks that the world's financial system is on the brink of collapse and so me having my funds at several banks in different countries at least provides some security that I will not suddenly face the situation of not being able to get access to at least some of my funds.

Note that in your situation, with a UK Bank being your main bank where you also receive your pension, it is even more important to ensure that you have different alternatives, as UK banks are notorious for suddenly blocking access to your account and thereby creating a huge problem for the owner of the account if he relies on the funds there.  But from what you wrote you seem to be well aware of the risks in that situation and are considering actions to protect yourself against such a scenario. 

Edited December 14, 2023 by Red Phoenix

[BritManToo]

Have your pensions paid into Wise.

[scubascuba3]

If it's too late to open a new UK bank account then open a Wise account, will have an account number and sort code

[EcureuilTenace]

21 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

@EcureuilTenace - Like yourself I am Belgian pensioner living in Thailand, but with the difference that I kept my official residence in Belgium (by officially moving to my parents address).

I am well aware of the huge potential problems that might arise when keeping my money and having my pension paid to a bank outside Thailand.  And my current (imperfect) solution is to have

- a main Belgian Bank-account (where I have two accounts, and 2 debit-cards and 3 credit-cards, one of them being a Golden credit-card - the other ones being free)

- a 'reserve' Belgian Bank-account (with a debit- and credit-card)

This in case there would be an accessibility problem with either of them.  And I also keep less than 100.000,- Euro on each bank, as that is the protection limit when they go belly-up, which is unlikely as both these banks are rock-solid and conservative with how they invest their funds.

I also opened an Internet bank-account with German-based N26, voted last year Best bank in the World (and have a debit-card from that account).  When you have a Belgian passport you would be able to also open such an Internet bank-account at N26.  Howeverm when you opt for their unbelievable generous YOU-account (do check it out) you would need a Belgian address to send the debit-card to.  

Finally I also have a savings account (with debit-card) and Fixed deposit account with Thai Kasikorn bank.

= = =

You also wrote that you are using WISE but are not comfortable with having them looking after your money as a bank.

I also have a WISE account, and use it to spice my Kasikorn account.  But I also have a Multiple-Currency account with WISE (and debit-card to that account which allows me to withdraw money from an ATM at the Wise favorable exchange-rate). That would probably be a good alternative for you too, and the fact that WISE is not a regular bank but rather a foreign-exchange clearing-house is imo actually a Pre rather than being uncomfortable that your money is kept by them. 

= = =

It is prudent not to put all your eggs in one basket, as it looks that the world's financial system is on the brink of collapse and so me having my funds at several banks in different countries at least provides some security that I will not suddenly face the situation of not being able to get access to at least some of my funds.

Note that in your situation, with a UK Bank being your main bank where you also receive your pension, it is even more important to ensure that you have different alternatives, as UK banks are notorious for suddenly blocking access to your account and thereby creating a huge problem for the owner of the account if he relies on the funds there.  But from what you wrote you seem to be well aware of the risks in that situation and are considering actions to protect yourself against such a scenario. 

 

Thank you for your comprehensive answer. I hope you don't mind me reacting and asking questions that your message raises.

 

"I kept my official residence in Belgium (by officially moving to my parents address)". How do you manage that? Do you spend at least 6 months per year in Belgium, the only way I see you can be officially resident in Belgium? Same for the UK.

 

As you are officially resident in Belgium, you have no problems with Belgian accounts, you can open or keep existing ones. If you are not resident in Belgium, my understanding is that it is impossible to open a new one in any banks and keeping an existing one depends on your bank's policy. Is that your understanding? It is the case in the UK.

 

I have never heard of N26 before. I will have a look, thank you for the tip.

 

Wise told me 2 days ago that (I quote)"We sadly do not offer the Wise card to customers in Thailand". You seem to be using one in Thailand. This apparent contradiction could be explained by a difference between getting a card and using it. In other words, you might get a card at your parents in Belgium and the card is working in Thailand. Is that the case?

 

Pushing my luck with questions on Wise:

 

17 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

If it's too late to open a new UK bank account then open a Wise account, will have an account number and sort code

 

What about a the Wise card? Has it got the 16 digits number used to purchase online?

How is it visually logo-recognisably accepted like a Visa or Mastercard is? Or perhaps it doesn't matter now it is all digital and shopkeepers do not even look at a a card, just slot it in?

 

And finally, a question Wise is not answering properly: which country do the money looks like coming from for the Thai banks (hence the Thai tax authorities). Tax wise, it doesn't matter using the card (that is spending) but it does when doing a bank transfer to a Thai account  (that can be seen as a revenue).

 

Kind regards to all

 

 

 

 

[Red Phoenix]

2 hours ago, EcureuilTenace said:

 

Thank you for your comprehensive answer. I hope you don't mind me reacting and asking questions that your message raises.

 

"I kept my official residence in Belgium (by officially moving to my parents address)". How do you manage that? Do you spend at least 6 months per year in Belgium, the only way I see you can be officially resident in Belgium? Same for the UK.

 

As you are officially resident in Belgium, you have no problems with Belgian accounts, you can open or keep existing ones. If you are not resident in Belgium, my understanding is that it is impossible to open a new one in any banks and keeping an existing one depends on your bank's policy. Is that your understanding? It is the case in the UK.

 

I have never heard of N26 before. I will have a look, thank you for the tip.

 

Wise told me 2 days ago that (I quote)"We sadly do not offer the Wise card to customers in Thailand". You seem to be using one in Thailand. This apparent contradiction could be explained by a difference between getting a card and using it. In other words, you might get a card at your parents in Belgium and the card is working in Thailand. Is that the case?

 

Pushing my luck with questions on Wise:

 

 

What about a the Wise card? Has it got the 16 digits number used to purchase online?

How is it visually logo-recognisably accepted like a Visa or Mastercard is? Or perhaps it doesn't matter now it is all digital and shopkeepers do not even look at a a card, just slot it in?

 

And finally, a question Wise is not answering properly: which country do the money looks like coming from for the Thai banks (hence the Thai tax authorities). Tax wise, it doesn't matter using the card (that is spending) but it does when doing a bank transfer to a Thai account  (that can be seen as a revenue).

 

Kind regards to all

~

Inserted my response in the questions (marked in blue) you raised:

"I kept my official residence in Belgium (by officially moving to my parents address)". How do you manage that? Do you spend at least 6 months per year in Belgium, the only way I see you can be officially resident in Belgium? Same for the UK.

> No, I am already for 6 years living approx 85% of the time in Thailand on my annually renewed 1-year Extension of stay for reason of retirement.  Afaik there is no obligation to stay at least 6 months per year in my Belgian home-country, where I have my official residence (in the house of my parents). In case any authorities would try to contact me there, I would simply be 'on holiday' (which is actually true as I am a NON-Immigrant in Thailand). 

As you are officially resident in Belgium, you have no problems with Belgian accounts, you can open or keep existing ones. If you are not resident in Belgium, my understanding is that it is impossible to open a new one in any banks and keeping an existing one depends on your bank's policy. Is that your understanding? It is the case in the UK.

> Yes, if you do not have your domicily anymore in Belgium it is not possible to open a new bank-account.  In UK the situation is even worse: most banks will suspend or block your account if they find out that you are not actually residing in the country.  Afaik there is no such policy in Belgium, and anyway with my official residence in Belgium there would never be any problem from the Bank's side.

I have never heard of N26 before. I will have a look, thank you for the tip.

> As I wrote I opened that N26 Internet bank-account while in Thailand, as only an EU Passport is needed to open a free account.  But to get hold of the debit-card I obviously had to give an address in Belgium where to send it (in my case obviously I used my official address in Belgium)

Wise told me 2 days ago that (I quote)"We sadly do not offer the Wise card to customers in Thailand". You seem to be using one in Thailand. This apparent contradiction could be explained by a difference between getting a card and using it. In other words, you might get a card at your parents in Belgium and the card is working in Thailand. Is that the case?

> Yes, same as for opening the N26 account, I had the WISE debit-card (linked to my multiple currency account with them) send to my Belgian residence.  For all they know I am a Belgian living in Belgium (and that's actually correct, as it is irrelevant that I am most of the year on holiday elsewhere). 

My decision not to give up my official residence in Belgium and exchange it for an address in Thailand, has been very advantageous for all administrative and banking matters.