Biden says there's 'no question' Trump engaged in an insurrection

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/26/2023 at 2:38 PM, Lacessit said:

That is a blatant exaggeration.

No one expects the Ukrainians to invade Russia, booting them out of the Donbas and Crimea is all they aspire to.

Loss of Crimea would almost certainly see Putin go down.

I agree with that, but they haven't been able to so far, have they, and now the US isn't supplying enough munitions ( and maybe even money ) so how do their prospects for winning look from your chair?

I guess we'll have to wait till spring to find out. Perhaps Zelensky can find the extra half million men hiding under the table, and the US will supply enough ammunition to make a difference, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

IMO the much vaunted "counter offensive" was Zelensky's last chance to keep the money flowing in his direction, and it was a bust.

 

Don't forget that the Russians will be sending supplies and munitions to the front and reinforcing their front line defences over winter.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/26/2023 at 4:21 PM, Lacessit said:

Germany also had some of the best NCO's. Compare that with the Russians, who have political commissars. Only good for second-guessing every field officer.

I don't disagree Hitler's refusal to allow retreat was instrumental in Germany's defeat. However, if the Germans had taken Britain first, IMO history would have been very different.

That was another mistake of Hitler's. He diverted the Luftwaffe from attacking British military targets, such as airfields, in retaliation for a token bombing attack on Berlin.

Modern military doctrine says the path to winning is led by absolute air supremacy. The Russians are far from that in Ukraine.

Agree that the Russians only won at the cost of millions of men.

 

I wonder if Hitler ever knew that he almost defeated the British air force before diverting his air force from the airfields and radar installations?

With a defeated or neutral Britain D Day would not have happened, leaving a long campaign from North Africa for the Americans and likely they would have abandoned it once the Japanese attacked.

 

Even so, without breaking the Enigma code it's still possible Britain would have lost.

 

IMO Hitler was Britain's secret weapon as he took the best military in the world, at that time, and made it incompetent. Some say he was insane and I have no argument against that.

[thaibeachlovers]

20 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

The US military is the best in the world, with the best officer corps there is.

 

Maybe you aren't from the US, so you aren't well informed.

Spoken by a true blue American. They weren't in the 60s when a bunch of boys from the north defeated them in Vietnam.

 

Was William Calley one of the "best in the world"

[Danderman123]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Spoken by a true blue American. They weren't in the 60s when a bunch of boys from the north defeated them in Vietnam.

 

Was William Calley one of the "best in the world"

The US military won every battle in Vietnam - it was the political leadership that lost the war.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Danderman123 said:

The US military won every battle in Vietnam - it was the political leadership that lost the war.

I'd love to get into that with you, but that's a long conversation to be having on a thread about Biden.

[Lacessit]

29 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

The US military won every battle in Vietnam - it was the political leadership that lost the war.

IIRC they won in Iraq, lost in Afghanistan. Although Iraq then became a vacuum.

It's a mixed bag, history shows trying to subjugate populations that don't want you there is rarely successful. A lesson Putin has yet to learn

IMO America is playing it smart in Ukraine, the Ukrainians do their work for them. No boots on the ground.

That could all change if the traitor Trump gets back in.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I agree with that, but they haven't been able to so far, have they, and now the US isn't supplying enough munitions ( and maybe even money ) so how do their prospects for winning look from your chair?

I guess we'll have to wait till spring to find out. Perhaps Zelensky can find the extra half million men hiding under the table, and the US will supply enough ammunition to make a difference, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

IMO the much vaunted "counter offensive" was Zelensky's last chance to keep the money flowing in his direction, and it was a bust.

 

Don't forget that the Russians will be sending supplies and munitions to the front and reinforcing their front line defences over winter.

IMO the Russians have already proved their grasp of logistics is abysmal, and it is what the Ukrainians are targeting. I see they just eliminated one of Russia's biggest transport ship, from the videos it looks like it was carrying ammunition.

The vital link is the Kerch Strait bridge, which is still being repaired. Take that out, and Crimea cannot be defended.

 

[billd766]

3 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

IMO the Russians have already proved their grasp of logistics is abysmal, and it is what the Ukrainians are targeting. I see they just eliminated one of Russia's biggest transport ship, from the videos it looks like it was carrying ammunition.

The vital link is the Kerch Strait bridge, which is still being repaired. Take that out, and Crimea cannot be defended.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67821515

[Danderman123]

35 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

IIRC they won in Iraq, lost in Afghanistan. Although Iraq then became a vacuum.

It's a mixed bag, history shows trying to subjugate populations that don't want you there is rarely successful. A lesson Putin has yet to learn

IMO America is playing it smart in Ukraine, the Ukrainians do their work for them. No boots on the ground.

That could all change if the traitor Trump gets back in.

None of that is the fault of the military, they overthrew the Taliban, but were forced to occupy Afghanistan by the Bush administration. 

 

Same with Iraq.

[rabas]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Spoken by a true blue American. They weren't in the 60s when a bunch of boys from the north defeated them in Vietnam.

 

Was William Calley one of the "best in the world"

They had help. Your friends at the time?

 

On 17 November 1964, the Soviet Politburo decided to send increased support to North Vietnam. This aid included aircraft, radar, artillery, air defense systems, small arms, ammunition, food and medical supplies. They also sent Soviet military personnel to North Vietnam. Some 15,000 Soviet personnel served in Indo-China as advisers and occasionally as combatants. [ref]

 

[Morch]

6 hours ago, Lacessit said:

IIRC they won in Iraq, lost in Afghanistan. Although Iraq then became a vacuum.

It's a mixed bag, history shows trying to subjugate populations that don't want you there is rarely successful. A lesson Putin has yet to learn

IMO America is playing it smart in Ukraine, the Ukrainians do their work for them. No boots on the ground.

That could all change if the traitor Trump gets back in.

 

It depends how loss and victory are decided.

If limiting things to military confrontations, then yeah - it's no an army to go against.

If talking about wide geo-political issues, that's not entirely up to the army.

[Lacessit]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

It depends how loss and victory are decided.

If limiting things to military confrontations, then yeah - it's no an army to go against.

If talking about wide geo-political issues, that's not entirely up to the army.

IIRC, both Patton and McArthur got fired for talking out of turn.

America seems to be able to find good commanders, Eisenhower and Schwarzkopf spring to mind.

OTOH, Gerasimov and Shoigu do not impress. Surovikin seems to be their best at defence, and he's been fired.

[Morch]

Just now, Lacessit said:

IIRC, both Patton and McArthur got fired for talking out of turn.

America seems to be able to find good commanders, Eisenhower and Schwarzkopf spring to mind.

OTOH, Gerasimov and Shoigu do not impress. Surovikin seems to be their best at defence, and he's been fired.

 

IMO, that's a product of the regime. Dictatorial, totalitarian, authoritative regimes are often somewhat paranoid - letting a bright general be in control of the armed forces might pose a risk. Alternatively, one can say that the prevailing mind set does not encourage standing out with 'new ideas', focus being on gratifying those above you (this exists in any system, but maybe more so under such conditions). Combat pilots are often a 'troublesome' segment in this regard.

[Lacessit]

10 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

IMO, that's a product of the regime. Dictatorial, totalitarian, authoritative regimes are often somewhat paranoid - letting a bright general be in control of the armed forces might pose a risk. Alternatively, one can say that the prevailing mind set does not encourage standing out with 'new ideas', focus being on gratifying those above you (this exists in any system, but maybe more so under such conditions). Combat pilots are often a 'troublesome' segment in this regard.

The fact Trump has little respect for the world's best military should give all Americans pause.

[Morch]

Just now, Lacessit said:

The fact Trump has little respect for the world's best military should give all Americans pause.

 

Well, he doesn't seem to have a whole lot of respect for anyone but dictators.

[2baht]

On 12/26/2023 at 3:57 PM, Danderman123 said:

The US military is the best in the world, with the best officer corps there is.

 

Maybe you aren't from the US, so you aren't well informed.

Nihao ma comrade! Bow to the Emperor (Xi)! 

[2baht]

9 hours ago, Lacessit said:

The fact Trump has little respect for the world's best military should give all Americans pause.

Trump has little respect for anyone, except maybe, direct family members. If the lying buffoon becomes president again, Americans are showing just how stupid the majority really are!!! 

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, Lacessit said:

IMO the Russians have already proved their grasp of logistics is abysmal, and it is what the Ukrainians are targeting. I see they just eliminated one of Russia's biggest transport ship, from the videos it looks like it was carrying ammunition.

The vital link is the Kerch Strait bridge, which is still being repaired. Take that out, and Crimea cannot be defended.

 

There is actually a sub forum devoted to the Ukraine war you can post on. I'd love to get into it with you about Ukraine, but not on this thread.

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

None of that is the fault of the military, they overthrew the Taliban, but were forced to occupy Afghanistan by the Bush administration. 

 

Same with Iraq.

On that I agree with you. Two disasters caused by ( IMO warmonger ) Bush the younger.

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, rabas said:

They had help. Your friends at the time?

 

On 17 November 1964, the Soviet Politburo decided to send increased support to North Vietnam. This aid included aircraft, radar, artillery, air defense systems, small arms, ammunition, food and medical supplies. They also sent Soviet military personnel to North Vietnam. Some 15,000 Soviet personnel served in Indo-China as advisers and occasionally as combatants. [ref]

 

Given Vietnam was a proxy war between USA and Russia during the Cold War are you surprised at that?

After all, the excuse given for starting it was to prevent the "domino effect".

50,000 US lives later they didn't manage that either, with all of Indo China going communist.

[thaibeachlovers]

9 hours ago, Lacessit said:

IIRC, both Patton and McArthur got fired for talking out of turn.

America seems to be able to find good commanders, Eisenhower and Schwarzkopf spring to mind.

OTOH, Gerasimov and Shoigu do not impress. Surovikin seems to be their best at defence, and he's been fired.

Errr, McArthur got fired for going against orders and crossing the river, not talking out of turn, and if the movie was correct Patton got fired for slapping a shell shocked soldier. I suspect there was more to it than that, but likely that was an excuse to send him into the wilderness.

 

https://www.trumanlibrary.gov/education/presidential-inquiries/firing-macarthur

MacArthur thwarted Truman’s attempt to negotiate a ceasefire when the general ordered his troops to invade North Korea and push the NKPA up past the 38th parallel.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_S._Patton_slapping_incidents

Word of the incidents spread, eventually reaching Patton's superior, General Dwight D. Eisenhower, who ordered him to apologize to the men.

.....................................................

Seizing the opportunity the predicament presented, Eisenhower used Patton as a decoy in Operation Fortitude, sending faulty intelligence to German agents that Patton was leading the Invasion of Europe.

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Errr, McArthur got fired for going against orders and crossing the river, not talking out of turn, and if the movie was correct Patton got fired for slapping a shell shocked soldier. I suspect there was more to it than that, but likely that was an excuse to send him into the wilderness.

 

https://www.trumanlibrary.gov/education/presidential-inquiries/firing-macarthur

MacArthur thwarted Truman’s attempt to negotiate a ceasefire when the general ordered his troops to invade North Korea and push the NKPA up past the 38th parallel.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_S._Patton_slapping_incidents

Word of the incidents spread, eventually reaching Patton's superior, General Dwight D. Eisenhower, who ordered him to apologize to the men.

.....................................................

Seizing the opportunity the predicament presented, Eisenhower used Patton as a decoy in Operation Fortitude, sending faulty intelligence to German agents that Patton was leading the Invasion of Europe.

Correct on McArthur.

W,R,to Patton, I was talking about events subsequent to the slapping incident, when Patton said America would be better off finishing the job, and taking on the Russians while the American army was in Europe. That got him demoted to an administrative position.

In hindsight, maybe he was right, before the Soviets could develop their own nukes.

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

There is actually a sub forum devoted to the Ukraine war you can post on. I'd love to get into it with you about Ukraine, but not on this thread.

You're right, we are getting off topic more than a little.

[Tug]

20 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Spoken by a true blue American. They weren't in the 60s when a bunch of boys from the north defeated them in Vietnam.

 

Was William Calley one of the "best in the world"

Naaa jhon McCain  a carrier qualified pilot and pow to mind or his grandpa who was  in charge of the catcus Air Force during the Guadalcanal campaign and made admiral had a carrier task force under him at wars end died 6 days after the surrender due to overwork or perhaps Robert muller born into wealth and privilege but decided to serve (with distinction)at the point of the spear I might add,that’s who most Americans think of not war criminals like Calley.now that national tragedy is coming full circle like Germany and Japan trump certainly doesn’t belong in the same category as those great Americans 

[2baht]

54 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

You're right, we are getting off topic more than a little.

Liverpool Lou......sort them out please!

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, 2baht said:

Liverpool Lou......sort them out please!

Not the whip!

[Danderman123]

1 hour ago, Tug said:

 trump certainly doesn’t belong in the same category as those great Americans 

Cadet Bone Spurs.

 

I guess worshippers of the Orange Jesus imagine Trump as a mighty warrior.

 

 

Edited December 28, 2023 by Danderman123

[Lacessit]

18 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Cadet Bone Spurs.

 

I guess worshippers of the Orange Jesus imagine Trump as a mighty warrior.

 

 

Latest news - Trump has bad body odor, and apparently sh!ts himself. Mind you, with 91 criminal indictments, I would probably be doing the same.

 

 

[Tug]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

Latest news - Trump has bad body odor, and apparently sh!ts himself. Mind you, with 91 criminal indictments, I would probably be doing the same.

 

 

Guess his body man is also the groomer of the stool?always knew he stinks 😷 but I guess literally as well humm?how pray tell does a narcissist handle that?lol

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Correct on McArthur.

W,R,to Patton, I was talking about events subsequent to the slapping incident, when Patton said America would be better off finishing the job, and taking on the Russians while the American army was in Europe. That got him demoted to an administrative position.

In hindsight, maybe he was right, before the Soviets could develop their own nukes.

Ah, yes, you are probably right about that. He may have been right, but there was no way a war weary nation would have accepted it.

He may have been a great general, but had, apparently, not much common sense, if he thought starting a war against a country promoted as an ally for 4 years would have been acceptable to the public, and especially among the boys that would have died in it. A politician he was not, period.