Any US Social security recipients out there doing direct deposits?

[Thailandbuckeye]

  On 4/5/2024 at 4:00 AM, Pib said:

 

Since you said your original DD form showed a "SWIFT" code that means you were signed up for DD via the International Direct Deposit (IDD) program which uses the SWIFT system (uses SWIFT codes to identify the bank); you were not signed up for the standard DD program that uses the Automated Clearing House (ACH) system which uses "routing numbers" to identify the bank.   Direct deposit via IDD and ACH are two completely separate funds transfer systems....two different animals....it like riding in a taxi vs a bus...riding a train vs a plane....two different funds transfer systems.

 

The SWIFT code for Bangkok Bank is:  BKKBTHBK "or" BKKBTHJBKXXX.   Either one works fine....the XXX is just an extended version of the basic code...either one works fine. Most people probably just use the basic code without the XXX added on.  

 

The ACH Routing Number for Bangkok Bank is: 026008681

 

 

 

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Thanks, I agree but SSA in the U.S. does not. My deposits come in like clock work so Swift codes/routing numbers must be correct. My problem is as stated above that I can’t get by the security question. SSA shows a different routing number than Bangkok Bank and giving them the Swift code doesn’t help. 
 

I tend to think at this point the routing number they have in their system is a Citibank routing number and since Citibank has numerous routing numbers I am unsure which to try next.

 

 

[Thailandbuckeye]

Sorry forgot to mention that my bank book codes the deposits as BAHTNET.

[soisanuk]

The BAHTNET system is for funds sent through the Bank of Thailand's Bahtnet system.  Per Wise, their Swift code is  BOTHTHBPTS1  (https://wise.com/us/swift-codes/BOTHTHBPTS1)

[Pib]

  On 4/5/2024 at 6:54 AM, soisanuk said:

The BAHTNET system is for funds sent through the Bank of Thailand's Bahtnet system.  Per Wise, their Swift code is  BOTHTHBPTS1  (https://wise.com/us/swift-codes/BOTHTHBPTS1)

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For IDD the BAHTNET system is only used as the last leg of the SWIFT transfer to the Thai receiving bank which for Thailandbuckeye is Bangkok Bank whose SWIFT code is   BKKBTHBK.    Plus the Wise SWIFT code above is for sending money to Bank of Thailand in those cases where someone would need to send funds to the Bank of Thailand (probably for companies and other central banks).    Now "if" Thailandbuckeye is using the IDD system which means Citibank is handling the transfer as the US Treasury contractor bank for US govt payment to Thailand banks, then Citibank might be using the Bank of Thailand SWIFT as a "correspondent/intermediary bank" address on the way to its final destination at Bangkok. 

 

But that really neither here or there in Thailandbuckeye case and the issue he's having.   Assuming Thailandbuckeye is currently on the IDD system then he will probably "not" be able to change from the IDD system that uses the International SWIFT system to the U.S. ACH system that uses routing numbers because the SSA "interactive computerized" system is geared for making direct deposit changes between U.S. banks...that is, changing from one routing number to another.  Right now Thailandbuckeye if on the IDD system has a SWIFT code loaded as his bank identifier and does not have a U.S. bank routing number, therefore he could never pass the security question since the system is looking for a routing "number" (as is 0-9) vs a SWIFT code consisting of "letters."

 

 

 

 

[Pib]

  On 4/5/2024 at 4:11 AM, Thailandbuckeye said:

Sorry forgot to mention that my bank book codes the deposits as BAHTNET.

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OK, that confirms your direct deposit is on the International Direct Deposit (IDD) funds transfer  system that uses the SWIFT system and therefore using SWIFT codes to identify the bank....codes consisting of "letters" and maybe occasionally a number or two mixed it..   The U.S. Automated Clearing House (ACH) uses routing "numbers"...a nine digit number.

 

So, assuming you are using the SSA Automated Phone System to try to change your DD bank....the automated system  expects your current US bank "routing number" that you are currently using for your DD (what loaded in your profile right now)....you will never get past that because you are "not" currently using an routing number...you are using a SWIFT code plus you are on the IDD system vs ACH system.

 

The SSA Automated Phone System is geared for changing from one U.S. bank to another US on the ACH system....it's routing number based.  You are currently on the IDD system trying to change over to the ACH system....trying to mix apples and oranges.  Seriously doubt the Automated System can accomplish the switch between IDD and ACH (or vice versa); instead you'll will have to talk to a "human" SSA representative who still may ask you to send in the ACH DD form since you are switching from IDD to ACH.  Probably best to just do that thru the Manila SSA....they can enroll you in the ACH or IDD system.

 

 

https://ph.usembassy.gov/services/social-security/faq/

[Thailandbuckeye]

I actually called SSA 3 times last night….all to a rep not an automated system. I agree that I need to go through Manila.

Thanks for the help.

 

I may get stuck with Bangkok Bank.

[Pib]

Just use Manila SSA to change your DD info....use the Manila SSA website inquiry form.  They have a specific inquiry heading/topic just for that purpose.

[Thailandbuckeye]

Just a follow up to changing my DD from Bangkok Bank to a U.S. Credit Assn. 

 

I submitted the change to Manila, two weeks later they responded that my bank info has been changed. A day or so later MySSA showed the new bank account as requested (shows only last few digits but enough to verify).

 

So bottom line is to change back to the US it’s best to go through Manila.

[Charlie D.]

My SS direct deposit should have arrived in Thailand 3 days ago and today is Sept. 6, 2024. This is a first for me so I do not know how many days it takes the Thai bank to clear a Direct Deposit and the money deposited into my account. Does anyone know how many days before I see the money in my account? Thanks for the reply back to me.

CD

[Pib]

  On 9/6/2024 at 4:49 AM, Charlie D. said:

My SS direct deposit should have arrived in Thailand 3 days ago and today is Sept. 6, 2024. This is a first for me so I do not know how many days it takes the Thai bank to clear a Direct Deposit and the money deposited into my account. Does anyone know how many days before I see the money in my account? Thanks for the reply back to me.

CD

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If your direct deposit was via "IDD" (i.e., uses the SWIFT system) it "typically posts on the 3rd of the month"....but sometimes it might be on the 1st to the 4th. And the SSA says it could be up to 3 days later depending on the policies of the receiving bank.   Like this month's IDD posting date occurred the morning of 4 Sep as my wife has been getting  her SS direct deposit via IDD for years now.    And a poster I sometimes message with also got his IDD direct deposit for September on 4 Sep.   But typically, it's the 3rd plus or minus a day or two if using IDD. 

 

Now if  your direct deposit was via "ACH" and depending on if you have your Thailand address or a U.S. address on-file with the SSA then the payment/payment date could be o/a the 3rd of the month (plus or minus a few days just like for IDD) if you have a Thailand address "or" later in the month depending on your date of birth during the month if you have a U.S. address.

 

 

[Pib]

@Charlie D.

    Which DD deposit method are you using?   ACH or IDD?      And have you been receiving SS payments for a while to another bank OR is this you first SSA pension payment.  If your first payment are you sure the payment was suppose to be made for this month?

 

 If IDD, the payment can go to "any" Thai bank and does "not" have to be a restricted account.   

 

But if using ACH the payment can only go to Bangkok Bank with a "special restricted" account specifically for U.S. govt reoccurring payments like SSA [pension.  Bangkok Bank is the only Thai bank with ACH receiving capability. 

 

If you are using ACH and trying to send it to a "unrestricted" Bangkok Bank acct then Bangkok Bank at some point will block the payment since it's not going into a restricted acct.  Sometimes Bangkok Bank will catch this attempt right off the bat and in some cases it could be months or years before they catch it.   I sure know over a decade ago when I attempted to have one of my govt pensions sent to  my "unrestricted/regular" Bangkok Bank saving acct via ACH my Bangkok Bank branch caught it on the 2nd payment and I got a letter from them they had the payment on-hold and I needed to come in and open a "restricted" acct to receive reoccurring U.S. govt payment via ACH.   

 

 

[Charlie D.]

My SS direct deposit should have arrived in Thailand 3 days ago and today is Sept. 6, 2024. This is a first for me so I do not know how many days it takes the Thai bank  

 

Pib, I will give you a reply with detail when I return home from the city of KamphangPhet.

[Charlie D.]

Pib, went to the bank to ask about the DD and had them to update my bank book, Yep the money was in my account on the 4th and was sent by SSA on the 3rd. I have a notice on my phone when there is any money taken out or on deposit and I did not have the money from SSA listed on my phone. This has never happened to me for 15 years using this notification from the bank. 

Good news from the Bank and good news from CAT working out my issues with the HP.

Sleep Good tonight.

Thanks for your replies back to me. I know who to come to if and when issues come up.

Charlie KP Provence.

[Charlie D.]

Does anyone know how much Kasikorn Bank charges to deposit my monthly SS money into my account? Is it a percent or a flat fee?

Thank you for your reply back to me.

 

C D

[PumpkinEater]

Charlie D,

I have a monthly WISE transfer from my US Bank account (SS) into my K bank account. 
Kasikorn charges 0.

There is a fee WDs from K bank though…

Cheers

[Charlie D.]

SS sends my monthly Direct Deposit payment using the SWIFT code for K-Bank.  The money is less than I expected in the deposit. Using XE.COM and knowing about the time of the transfer and seeing the amount from XE using the graph there is a money loss. I see a loss of 1500thb so that is the reason for this mail.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks for the assist.

CD

[PumpkinEater]

Charlie,

I too saw a large deduction when I had the SSA direct deposit to my K bank account. Every month I would lose close to $60 USD. This, as I traced the flow…was due to the SSA using banks in the USA to complete the transfer.

THEY are the ones skimming the USD before it hits your K bank account.

I subsequently switched from that method to my own transfer using WISE. I save roughly $40 USD per month cutting out the middle bank fruadsters!

 

Cheers!

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

  On 10/5/2024 at 9:29 AM, Charlie D. said:

SS sends my monthly Direct Deposit payment using the SWIFT code for K-Bank.  The money is less than I expected in the deposit. Using XE.COM and knowing about the time of the transfer and seeing the amount from XE using the graph there is a money loss. I see a loss of 1500thb so that is the reason for this mail.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks for the assist.

CD

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SSA uses Citibank to transfer benefits to recipients overseas. Citibank remits Thai baht and not US dollars to banks in Thailand. Citibank uses a less favorable exchange rate than one would get if dollars were transferred to a Thai Bank. The blame lies with Citibank and perhaps also driven by the fact that the baht is not an extensively traded major currency.

[Pib]

  On 10/5/2024 at 9:29 AM, Charlie D. said:

SS sends my monthly Direct Deposit payment using the SWIFT code for K-Bank.  The money is less than I expected in the deposit. Using XE.COM and knowing about the time of the transfer and seeing the amount from XE using the graph there is a money loss. I see a loss of 1500thb so that is the reason for this mail.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks for the assist.

CD

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You are using the IDD direct deposit method which as you said travels via the SWIFT system vs the ACH system.   You "can not" use exchange rates like at XE.com, Wise, etc., because the exchange rate is determined U.S. Treasury/its IDD contractor bank (currently Citibank Global for IDD to Thailand) several days before the actual transfer occurs.   And no, you can not look at the monthly exchange rate posted by US Treasury on their website as that rate is not being used....that's a rate used for different purposes like for tax purposes.

 

The only fee K-bank should be charging to receive the IDD Direct Deposit is Bt100 which is actually a BAHTNET receiving fee as the last leg of the IDD/SWIFT transfer occurs via the BAHTNET system which interfaces with the SWIFT system.   There are no other fees along the way....no fees like if you were using the "ACH" direct deposit method to a Bangkok Bank acct where a Bangkok Bank New York branch fee of $5 or $10 (depends on the amount of the transfer) is charged as the funds flow thru them onto your in-Thailand Bangkok Bank where a receiving fee of 0.25% (min Bt200, max Bt500) is charged.  Both of these ACH fees are "hidden" fees and do not appear on your bank statement/passbook.   And the IDD BAHTNET receiving fee of Bt100 is also a hidden fee.  

 

So, to determine the "IDD" exchange rate you need to know your SSA direct deposit "net" payment, repeat, "net" amount in dollars.   Net means after all deductions such as tax, Medicare, etc.,...this will be the amount converted to baht and then transmitted to your Thai bank.   Now look at the amount of baht that "posted" to your Thai bank acct and then add Bt100 (i.e., that BAHTNET fee) as that will be the total amount that initially arrived your Thai bank before K-bank applied their Bt100 fee......then divide that total amount by your SSA "net" dollars...you will now have the IDD exchange rate used.

 

The IDD exchange rate for the 3 Oct 2024 payment was Bt32.158 per USD.  If you had been using the ACH direct deposit method to a Bangkok Bank acct the exchange rate should have been Bt32.86 per USD (that's the Bangkok Bank 3 Oct 2024 0830hrs "TT Buying Rate" which would have been used for a incoming SSA payment via ACH.   

 

Although the Bangkok Bank Exchange rate is higher than the IDD rate the Bangkok Bank total ACH fees are higher so in doing a cost comparison be sure to consider exchange rate "and fees."  

 

My wife receives her SSA direct deposit via IDD...by looking at her 3 Oct payment and knowing her net SSA payment that's how I figured out the IDD exchange rate of 32.158.   She started using IDD when if first became available for Thailand in 2019.  I tracked/compared the exchange rate for 12 months during Jul 2019- Jun 2020.  Compared it to the "ACH" direct deposit method which included fees.   

 

See below spreadsheet snapshot from  June 2020 when the exchange rate was several baht lower compared to today....I stopped tracking at that point as I had the data/answer I wanted.   Note that around $1,125 and above net SSA payment is where using ACH would put a "little bit" more baht into your Bangkok Bank acct; below $1,125  IDD would put more.    But of course if using a Bangkok Bank bank acct for your ACH US govt reoccurring payment like SSA pension it will be a special restricted acct, whereas, US govt payment via IDD can go into any Thai bank regular unrestricted acct.

 

 

ACH and IDD Direct Deposit Cost Comparison 

 

 

 

[Pib]

@Charlie D.

 

And since you said you are using K-bank to receive your IDD payment depending on where your K-bank branch is located in Thailand there "may", repeat, may also be an "upcountry" BAHTNET fee which is in addition to the basic Bt100 BAHTNET fee. 

 

But if you K-bank branch is in Bangkok and surrounding provinces only the basic Bt100 BAHTNET fee applies.  And even if your K-bank branch is not in/around Bangkok the upcountry BAHTNET fee may not apply in the case of this particular incoming US govt payment.   Do the math as I described in my above post just using the Bt100 fee....if your baht payment is still a little off then crank-in the K-bank upcountry fee shown in their BAHTNET fee chart below.

 

https://www.kasikornbank.com/en/personal/services/payment/pages/bahtnet.aspx

[Charlie D.]

Pib, should the rate you stated be 33.158 and not 32.158?  I ran the 33.158 and the results were spot on for the amount I received for 3 Oct. 2024.

 

You have many thanks from me as I had no idea of the info you sent to me, so Thank You again.

 

Charlie D.

[Pib]

  On 10/6/2024 at 1:59 AM, Charlie D. said:

Pib, should the rate you stated be 33.158 and not 32.158?  I ran the 33.158 and the results were spot on for the amount I received for 3 Oct. 2024.

 

You have many thanks from me as I had no idea of the info you sent to me, so Thank You again.

 

Charlie D.

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No...32.158 is correct.     Even when using the very generous Wise exchange rate on 3 Oct at 7:0am the rate was only 32.88....and then you got the Wise fees which effectively reduce that rate.     

 

I'm going to guess you made a math error like maybe not really knowing the "net" dollar amount of your SSA pension.   If you have a SSA Online acct it will show you your gross amount, all deductions, and net amount.   Remember, the "net" amount is the amount after all taxes, Medicare, other deductions, etc.,.......net amount is the amount of your pension that is transmitted to your bank account.

 

 

Below snapshot from Wise website..

[KhunLA]

Oh yea ... it is that time of the month.  Honey ... we can eat now 

 

For the curious, my SS DD rate was ฿32..08 @ 0858 / 3 Oct

BBL IDD DD, SS to BBL direct (not via NY branch)

 

source (USD / THB)

source (Time - BKK / UTC)

 

@Pib @ 0700 BKK / 1200 UTC time

Google Finances quote

So Wise is pretty spot on, although + added fees

and why I stopped using, along with no CC use, at the time.

 

Wow ... that's pretty much our monthly living expense ...

... GONE 

 

[Pib]

  On 10/6/2024 at 3:06 AM, KhunLA said:

Oh yea ... it is that time of the month.  Honey ... we can eat now 

 

For the curious, my SS DD rate was ฿32..08 @ 0858 / 3 Oct

BBL IDD DD, SS to BBL direct (not via NY branch)

 

source (USD / THB)

source (Time - BKK / UTC)

 

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Before you did your exchange rate math did you add the Bt100 BAHTNET hidden basic  receiving fee?  I guessing you didn't which is why you are calculating 32.08 rate vs 32.158

 

And if your bank branch is not in Bangkok or surrounding provinces there "may" be an additional up-country BAHTNET fee as talked earlier which would also need to be added back to get the actual exchange rate before fees are applied.

[KhunLA]

  On 10/6/2024 at 3:27 AM, Pib said:

Before you did your exchange rate math did you add the Bt100 BAHTNET hidden basic  receiving fee?  I guessing you didn't which is why you are calculating 32.08 rate vs 32.158

 

And if your bank branch is not in Bangkok or surrounding provinces there "may" be an additional up-country BAHTNET fee as talked earlier which would also need to be added back to get the actual exchange rate before fees are applied.

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No, I did not.  Just divided my DD received from SS amount in $$.

Leave the rest up to the computers, as I have no control 

 

Quite the pittance for ease of paperwork for visa extensions.  Hassle free life is more important, than a couple more plates of Som Tam a year 

 

If I keep on living off my company pension, then we get to bank only -฿875k a year, instead of ฿1m a year.   The spread for L/H exchange rate.  Though I don't think we'll get away with living on my pittance of a pension next year.  Already got some spending in mind 

 

2024 ... HARRISS ... 2024

[Charlie D.]

Pib, I do NOT have any deductions coming out of my SS payment before it is sent to me. 

I do not use Wise as SS sends to me as a Direct Deposit using Kasikorn Bank SWIFT.

Pib, I ran the numbers twice using the 32.158 and came out the same as my deposit from the bank and I also did the Subtraction of the 100thb.

I have issues with My Fat Fingers using the phone. LOL!!!

 

Thanks for all your info to me.

 

Charlie D.

 

[1happykamper]

Oh good... This topic is still ongoing. 

 

What are the time lines for transfer? My SSA is deposited to my USA bank 3rd of each month at about 10 am Thailand time. 

 

If I use the Bangkok bank and the ACH method... When will I see the deposit in my special savings account? 

 

To confirm.. I can immediately transfer ONLINE.. all of that deposit to my Bangkok bank regular savings account? 

[Pib]

  On 10/24/2024 at 4:20 AM, 1happykamper said:

Oh good... This topic is still ongoing. 

 

What are the time lines for transfer? My SSA is deposited to my USA bank 3rd of each month at about 10 am Thailand time. 

 

If I use the Bangkok bank and the ACH method... When will I see the deposit in my special savings account? 

 

To confirm.. I can immediately transfer ONLINE.. all of that deposit to my Bangkok bank regular savings account? 

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Posting date/time to your Bangkok Bank acct would be the same...the 3rd of the month.     As talked earlier in this topic if using the ACH transfer method for your pension it will need to go into a special/restricted Bangkok Bank acct that only allows "in-person" transfer-outs and also no debit card is authorized for this special/restricted acct.   However, you can do online transfers into the special acct but you can not do online transfer-outs.     

 

And if you already have a regular/unrestricted Bangkok Bank acct if you start having your reoccurring govt pension (like your SSA pension) go into the regular acct at some point Bangkok Bank will spot that and then block the incoming govt pension payment....put it on-hold for approx two weeks giving you enough time to come in and open a special/restricted acct for incoming govt pensions.  The bank will notify you by letter.   If you do not come and open the special acct Bangkok Bank will send the pension payment back to SSA....ditto for later incoming pension payments.    You do "not" need to have a Thailand/overseas address onfile with the SSA.   And Bangkok Bank is the only Thai bank with ACH receiving capability since the payment is routed thru their NY branch (which is a license US bank) onto your in-Thailand Bangkok Bank branch.

 

However, if using the IDD transfer method (which uses the SWIFT system instead of the ACH system) the pension payment can go into a regular/unrestricted acct, have a debit card, can do online transfer-outs and -ins, etc....no special/restricted acct required.  The acct the pension goes into can be with "any" Thai bank (to include Bangkok Bank) and must be a Thai baht acct; can not be a Foreign Currency Deposit acct since the incoming payment will be in THB vs USD.     Payment will arrive on the 3rd of the month.    You will also need to have your Thailand/overseas address onfile with the SSA.

[Charlie D.]

Pib, as you know, the 3rd of November falls on a Sunday.  From your past experience, will the transfer come to the Thailand bank on November 1, Friday or will the money show up in the bank on November 4, Monday? 

What is your calculation of the money exchange rate as it stands this morning October, 30th?

Thanks.

Charlie D

[Pib]

  On 10/30/2024 at 1:52 AM, Charlie D. said:

Pib, as you know, the 3rd of November falls on a Sunday.  From your past experience, will the transfer come to the Thailand bank on November 1, Friday or will the money show up in the bank on November 4, Monday? 

What is your calculation of the money exchange rate as it stands this morning October, 30th?

Thanks.

Charlie D

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It could arrive the business day before or after....I've seen it go both ways.   

 

Wouldn't have a clue as to what the future exchange rate will be especially since the IDD system exchanges the USD to THB several business days "before" transferring the THB payment.    But as I showed several posts up in that spreadsheet the exchange rate will be approx 3/4% below the Bangkok Bank TT Buying Rate but that slightly lower exchange rate comes with a lot less fees than the ACH method so it works out to about the same effective rate/total baht posting when fees are also considered.   Gotta consider both exchange rate and fees.

 

 If your net payment is approx $1,125 you would end up with slightly more baht posting with IDD than if using ACH; if your net payment is over $1,125 you would end up with slightly more baht posting when using ACH.   Refer to my early spreadsheet.