The Reality of Existence vs the Hope of Eternity

[newbee2022]

6 hours ago, nobodysfriend said:

trying to restore the natural balance of the biosphere that mankind needs to survive .

If not , our species will disappear and fail the ' universal test '

Well, if you look around you - I mean world wide - then it seems we are on the way to fail and eradicate ourselves, most by greediness und unwillingness to learn. (Incl. useless wars)  Maybe AI can help to survive. 🙏

[Mark Nothing]

You are two parts.  A body and a soul.

 

Learning to nourish your soul housed in your body pays significant dividends.

 

The soul of King David in the Book of Psalms was present on the night of his conception, which means every person is born by intelligent plan.  Even one night stands.

 

A body without a soul is a corpse.

 

The soul is alive and contains your emotions, intellect, and potential connection to God, should you wish to turn it on.

 

King David's son, King Solomon in the Book of Ecclesiates reported the beginning of wisdom is reverence for God.    The rest is chasing the wind.

[Chris Daley]

I saw someone break it down into math and the numbers are insane.  The chance of YOU existing:  an infinite universe full of multi universes, the universe creating earth, the probability of a single protein forming by chance, the absolute miracle that is complex lifeforms, the many different types of humans dying off and leaving modern humans,  those humans surviving, war, famine, your mothers family tree, your fathers family tree, your mother and father meeting, that one sperm finding an egg.

 

I have read it's 1 in 400 trillion.  But that might just be the sperm and egg part without the other stuff.

Edited January 8 by Chris Daley

[nglodnig]

23 hours ago, stoner said:

all of this could of been posted in one of the 2 god threads. 

How can there be TWO God threas when there is only ONE God?  Unless the other thread denies the existence....

[swissie]

On 1/7/2024 at 2:24 PM, Walker88 said:

We all know how humans get here, but we tend to cloud the clinical reality with myth, superstition, romance or anything that might allow us to believe it is anything more than the result of a biological urge put into action.

 

The plain and simple fact is that we’re all here because somebody was in the mood. Sure, maybe some parents engaged in the act for the primary purpose of producing a child, but one or both being randy was the main cause. Whether Mozart or Hitler or a guy who pours Slurpies in a 7-11 at a highway rest stop in Keokuk, Iowa…we and they exist simply because somebody wanted to get his rocks off.

 

Life may or may not have any meaning, but it does have a purpose, and that purpose is more life. Living things are driven by instinct to propagate, to pass on their gene pool. In humans, that instinct is given a term: Horny. We’re propagation of our parent’s gene pool because somebody was horny. Kind of gives existence an element of farce.

 

Most of us develop and reach puberty in such a way that certain things attract us. Certainly, the majority of us are attracted to our opposite gender, though that isn’t everyone. As a male, some obvious things and some odd things seem to get my juices flowing. To be drawn to a beautiful face is something easy to understand. Where it gets somewhat silly---though natural---is that a shapely body draws us in. A nice pair of legs. Maybe large bosoms. A tight female backside that defies gravity. Where it gets almost embarrassing is that an orifice framed in different fleshy bits, naturally surrounded by hair follicles, and with a particular hormone-filled aroma emanating from said orifice, makes us hellbent on penetrating that orifice with our specialty male appendage. The desire is almost out of our control, though we learn to sublimate it, when to give in to the urge would be inappropriate. When the time is right, however, the behavior tends to take on a momentum all its own.

 

And so it goes.

 

All of that urge or romance or desire or passion is followed by a wonder of biology and chemistry, though we don’t usually think about it at that time. Instead, we think about snuggling, or doing it again, or going to watch the football game on TV.

 

Despite those unrelated thoughts, there’s something going on inside the female, especially if she is ovulating. At the culmination of the recent act, the male released a liquid filled with millions of motile little sperm, each wiggling a tail and on a mission to be first to reach the woman’s egg, or at least inadvertently or serendipitously collide with it. The waiting egg releases progesterone, which chemically attracts the sperm and causes their tails to wiggle faster. Generally, the sperm that gets there first causes a reaction to occur that creates kind of a barrier or membrane around the egg so that no other sperm are welcome. The two entities’ nuclei fuse, the zygote exits the Fallopian tube and eventually takes up residence on the wall of the uterus. Differentiation then begins, as the initial zygote begins to divide into cells that will go on to form organs and appendages, muscle and bone, brain and neurons.

 

The differentiation and cell specialization, plus growth, continues for about nine months, and then the combined gene pool is ready to make an appearance and join the same path to maturity so that it, too, can propagate its gene pool.

 

From a scientific perspective, there isn’t much more than that….intercourse, fertilization, pregnancy, development, birth,,,,and then rinse and repeat.

 

That isn’t enough for most people. They need there to be more to it than gene propagation. They need meaning. Many also need reassurance that existence is not finite, so they make up stories.

 

Somewhere along the path from sperm-meets-egg to a finished human being emerging from where the male had inserted his appendage, many people are intent on thinking something else happens, such as a “soul” is inserted or the neurochemicals and electric impulses running through neurons create a consciousness that---somehow---has existence outside of the physical body. There is no indication that any of this is the case, but the human need to believe insists, or hopes, it’s true.

 

If it is true, when does this infinite consciousness enter? How does it materialize? What is this “soul” thing, and how does it get there?

 

There is nothing about the chemistry resulting from sperm-meets-egg that in any way suggests some miracle emerges that creates an immortal and non-physical consciousness. No known chemical reactions of proteins or enzymes or lipids yield a consciousness independent of the chemicals that created it. There is no branch of physics that can offer any explanation or proof that sperm-meets-egg creates some essence that exists outside of the physical elements of the body. For those who believe in souls or independent consciousness, perhaps you will offer the explanation as to what atomic process results in this non-physical entity. Methyl groups? Oxidation? Is a catalyst, such as zinc or magnesium, required? There’s a Nobel Prize awaiting whomever provides the answer.

 

I don’t know how either an infinite consciousness or a “soul” are supposed to enter into the physical body. Did this soul always exist and some deity just shoved it into the emerging infant? Or does the deity manufacture a new soul after each successful intercourse and put it in? That would require monitoring every ovulating female 24/7. If these souls always existed, why are they not all here now? There’s about 8 billion humans currently on the planet, but since homo sapiens developed from other human-like forms, there have been about 125 to 150  billion of us. What happened to the other souls? Are they all going to reappear at the same time and be ‘judged'? What about the humans that existed before anybody’s modern deity? Are they shut out of eternity for all….eternity? Seems kind of unfair.

 

Even more ‘unfair’, perhaps, is that deities make no exception for the manner of the intercourse that leads to the insertion of a ‘soul’. Two people committed for life via a legally recognized marriage? That one’ is easy. Pre-marital intercourse? Quite often. A pick-up in a bar? It happens. Broken condom? Sorry! Two silly teens doing it for the first time because their parents are out of town? Sometimes. How about rape or incest? No exceptions, goddamnit!

 

For those who believe consciousness can exist outside of the physical body, has it been in existence since time began, or is there some magic that occurs when sperm-meets-egg that gives rise to this immortal consciousness? It floats away somewhere upon death of the body?

 

Another question is why does this consciousness diminish with the aging of the physical body? Most all humans, if they reach a certain age, develop some sort of dementia. For some it is so severe that by the time death occurs, the human is in a vegetative state. What is this magic that, upon death of the physical body (all human death results from lack of oxygen to the brain, whether because organs shut down, disease destroys the body’s ability to transport O2 to the brain, there’s blood loss from accidents, whatever) all is suddenly and instantly restored? All the memories and personality and everything the person was comes back and then goes….somewhere…Where?

 

Some people are of the belief that the consciousness or soul get recycled into another living form, but if it does, it seems to forget any and all previous iterations (but sometimes imagines it can remember, and usually because it believes it was some ancient warrior fighting a battle in Mesopotamia, or was a princess in some long lost monarchy).

 

Being infinite and immortal would be a wonderful thing, as life---especially in this modern world---is glorious. It’s great fun. It would be nice if it lasted forever, but I think our eternity is defined by our individual birth and death.

 

Life hasn’t always been so good, so I appreciate the need for many to hope there was more to life than pain and struggle. I just don’t see how any of the ‘spiritual’ beliefs make any sense. I don’t see when this infinite consciousness or soul gets inserted into the zygote or developing fetus. Certainly, if somehow these souls or some infinite consciousness results simply from my carnal desires, I should probably be a lot more responsible on how and with whom I dally, because my horniness could create an entity that will exist until time itself ends…..and all that just because I was horny. That puts a lot of pressure on me, and might get in the way of the fun when I’m in flagrante delicto with a woman.

 

If that is the case, the ability to procreate ought to be doled out a lot more judiciously, yet good or bad, moral or immoral, we all have that ability. It makes one wonder.

Not the first time I feel this way. Walker88 to me is the ONE poster that enriches this forum with "deep thought". Well thought out and well written.

The above text should be distributed at every university to Biology and Psychology students.

[swissie]

4 hours ago, Mark Nothing said:

You are two parts.  A body and a soul.

 

Learning to nourish your soul housed in your body pays significant dividends.

 

The soul of King David in the Book of Psalms was present on the night of his conception, which means every person is born by intelligent plan.  Even one night stands.

 

A body without a soul is a corpse.

 

The soul is alive and contains your emotions, intellect, and potential connection to God, should you wish to turn it on.

 

King David's son, King Solomon in the Book of Ecclesiates reported the beginning of wisdom is reverence for God.    The rest is chasing the wind.

The birthplace of all the thousands of "Gods" is in the human brain. So is the "Soul".

= Soul: Extreme conciousness, residing in the human brain. Nowhere else.

- 2 weeks ago, my goldhamster died.  Where has his "soul" found a new home?

[HappyExpat57]

In case you didn't know (I didn't) -

 

tl:dr = too long; didn't read

 

Learn something every day whether you want to or not.

[save the frogs]

OP,

most of these questions have been addressed in GammaGlobulin's "Is your fridge keeping you up at night?" thread. 

 

[charleskerins]

On 1/7/2024 at 8:46 PM, Adumbration said:

For those that do not have time to read this piffle, here is a summary:

 

The OP thinks that someone should be in charge of who is allowed to *uck.

Piffle ?   WTH?

[charleskerins]

Existence is meaningless ,the wise person realizes this and the absurdity of it all  -all the while trying to do the best that he or she can  for mankind/planet.

[Thingamabob]

For us there is no eternity. Sooner or later our planet will be gone. Sooner if hit by an asteroid, later consumed by the Sun. In the meantime we should try to be kinder to each other, and kinder to our fellow species on Earth. 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 1/8/2024 at 2:24 AM, Walker88 said:

There is no branch of physics that can offer any explanation or proof that sperm-meets-egg creates some essence that exists outside of the physical elements of the body.

Perhaps you think present day science knows everything there is to know about everything? Obviously that isn't true. Science doesn't actually know much. Can't explain how all the matter in the universe came into existence, can't cure cancer, can't stop people killing each other ie not very clever at all.

Perhaps one day our primitive science will be able to explain the origin of the universe, and the existence of God, but it sure isn't today.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, charleskerins said:

Existence is meaningless ,the wise person realizes this and the absurdity of it all  -all the while trying to do the best that he or she can  for mankind/planet.

Soooo, you believe that your entire life and that of everyone you know has no meaning at all. You are all just accidents of nature. That's rather sad, IMO.

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, swissie said:

The birthplace of all the thousands of "Gods" is in the human brain. So is the "Soul".

= Soul: Extreme conciousness, residing in the human brain. Nowhere else.

- 2 weeks ago, my goldhamster died.  Where has his "soul" found a new home?

Hmmmmm, did someone say that the soul exists in the brain? I must have missed that.

 

What gave your hamster the spark that made a lump of meat and bones "live". A scientist could probably grow a hamster body in a lab, but I doubt they could make it "live".

[Adumbration]

On 1/7/2024 at 11:48 PM, Walker88 said:

Short Version for the tl:dr folks:

 

It is highly unlikely, because there is no physical law to explain it, that sentience exists outside of the physical as a result of a random boom boom.

 

Prior to the creation of the Polis, law was not even a valid construct.

[Mark Nothing]

King Solomon, the richest man to ever live with an estimated $2.3 trillion usd net worth in todays dollars, enjoyed every pleasure in life, to the fullest.

 

He had much experience with foreign women and it always turned bitter.

 

He said you know God is with you if you can avoid her snares.  If you are devoid of God, you will be ensnared resulting in vexation of spirit, or poisoning of your soul, which will be more bitter than death.  Ecclesiastes 7:26.

 

He is talking about the pursuit of power between your body's desires and your soul's.  Like a horse and jockey.  A good jockey controls the horse.  A bad jockey lets the horse be in control.

 

You are letting your body steer you in the wrong direction.

 

There is nothing new under the sun.  

 

 

[swissie]

I was hoping that this thread will go on vigorously. But it can't, unless somebody can define to me and the rest of humanity what "a soul" is.

WHAT IS "A SOUL"?