Bkk Brian Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 Not a lot of options available? What would some posters suggest? Let them carry on disrupting shipping? More than 2,000 ships have changed course to circumvent the area so far. A huge amount of resources are being spent on Operation Prosperity Guardian with the UK, US, Australia, Bahrain, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Germany, Italy, Japan, Netherlands, New Zealand, South Korea and Singapore, protecting Red Sea shipping. Sometimes you need to stand up and take the least worst options available. Biden Has No Good Options in Yemen The decision to bomb the Houthis was likely the administration’s least bad path. The strikes, which targeted Houthi military installations and missile supplies, were aimed at weakening the militant group’s ability to launch attacks against commercial shipping lanes as well as restoring deterrence against the Houthis and other Iran-backed groups that have stepped up their attacks on Western targets in the Middle East amid the Israel-Hamas war and humanitarian crisis in Gaza, U.S. officials said. Yet the strikes also revealed the limited batch of mostly bad options the United States has for dealing with the Houthi attacks as it scrambles to contain the regional crisis sparked by the war. https://archive.ph/aMSi2 https://foreignpolicy.com/2024/01/12/us-yemen-houthi-airstrikes-red-sea-israel-hamas-gaza/ 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 1 hour ago, Morch said: Because Saudi Arabia's military competence and might are just the same as the USA/UK's. Also, stopping a civil war vs. stopping act of terrorism vs. maritime traffic are different level goals and issues. And, regardless - what alternative solutions are on offer? And how are they going to stop the Houthis from committing acts of terrorism? Their missiles are launched from mobile sites. "They have “little in the way of large-scale, permanent military sites,” he said, “and instead use mobile launchpads for rockets and drones in addition to networks of tunnels and caves that makes their targeting highly complicated.” The strikes Friday, Jalal said, were “surgical, largely tactical and symbolic.” He doubted they work as a deterrent." https://archive.ph/vv1KM https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/01/12/houthi-us-strike-gaza/ 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautifulthailand99 Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 What a farce Britain can't send it's aircraft carrier due to staffing issues and yet Sunak just announced 2.5bn for Ukraine - this is how countries die. There have been calls to send HMS Queen Elizabeth, the UK’s £3 billion aircraft carrier to the region, as part of the Carrier Strike Group (CSG), which is made up of a ring of advanced warships, submarines, helicopters and fifth generation fighter jets. However, The Telegraph understands that RFA Fort Victoria, the only Solid Support Ship capable of providing the CSG with the amount of ammunition, aircraft, spare equipment and food required for a full deployment, is unable to sail owing to a lack of sailors. In normal times it operates a crew of 100, but is understood to currently be working with a skeleton crew. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/01/12/aircraft-carriers-not-ready-red-sea-navy-recruitment-crisis/ 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 Just now, beautifulthailand99 said: What a farce Britain can't send it's aircraft carrier due to staffing issues and yet Sunak just announced 2.5bn for Ukraine - this is how countries die. There have been calls to send HMS Queen Elizabeth, the UK’s £3 billion aircraft carrier to the region, as part of the Carrier Strike Group (CSG), which is made up of a ring of advanced warships, submarines, helicopters and fifth generation fighter jets. However, The Telegraph understands that RFA Fort Victoria, the only Solid Support Ship capable of providing the CSG with the amount of ammunition, aircraft, spare equipment and food required for a full deployment, is unable to sail owing to a lack of sailors. In normal times it operates a crew of 100, but is understood to currently be working with a skeleton crew. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/01/12/aircraft-carriers-not-ready-red-sea-navy-recruitment-crisis/ Off topic whataboutery 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 46 minutes ago, Hawaiian said: Just because you have billions of dollars worth of military hardware does not mean you will win. The determination to win combined with good strategy plays an important part in any conflict. Notice the mention of an easy victory over a ragtime group of rebels. https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/06/03/houthis-saudi-arabia-yemen-policy-backward. Scroll down to "Washington Has Yemen Policy Backward" Not sure why you cited this article. It's thesis is that a proposed truce between the Saudis and the Houthis the terms of which were supported by the United States seem based on the assumption that the Saudis had the upper hand. Which was the opposite of the truth. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautifulthailand99 Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said: Off topic whataboutery Actually Britain's ability to sucesfully prosecute a war in the seas is a key point in understanding and predicting the response otherwise the debate is just fatuous postering. From that article ; However, the former head of the Navy cautioned that there was a “general lack of understanding of the capability of an aircraft carrier” in response to the recent strikes. “It’s extraordinary that when things started hotting up in the Red Sea region there wasn’t the immediate move to send an aircraft carrier there,” Lord West said. “If we had an aircraft carrier there we could have had 24 aircraft only 100 miles from Yemen ready to go at any moment and reattack.” Edited January 13 by beautifulthailand99 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 Just now, beautifulthailand99 said: Actually Britain's ability to prosecute a war in the seas is a key point in understanding and predicting the response otherwise the debate is just fatuous postering. This is nothing to do with Ukraine 5 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said: What a farce Britain can't send it's aircraft carrier due to staffing issues and yet Sunak just announced 2.5bn for Ukraine - this is how countries die. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 29 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said: Not a lot of options available? What would some posters suggest? Let them carry on disrupting shipping? More than 2,000 ships have changed course to circumvent the area so far. A huge amount of resources are being spent on Operation Prosperity Guardian with the UK, US, Australia, Bahrain, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Germany, Italy, Japan, Netherlands, New Zealand, South Korea and Singapore, protecting Red Sea shipping. Sometimes you need to stand up and take the least worst options available. Biden Has No Good Options in Yemen The decision to bomb the Houthis was likely the administration’s least bad path. The strikes, which targeted Houthi military installations and missile supplies, were aimed at weakening the militant group’s ability to launch attacks against commercial shipping lanes as well as restoring deterrence against the Houthis and other Iran-backed groups that have stepped up their attacks on Western targets in the Middle East amid the Israel-Hamas war and humanitarian crisis in Gaza, U.S. officials said. Yet the strikes also revealed the limited batch of mostly bad options the United States has for dealing with the Houthi attacks as it scrambles to contain the regional crisis sparked by the war. https://archive.ph/aMSi2 https://foreignpolicy.com/2024/01/12/us-yemen-houthi-airstrikes-red-sea-israel-hamas-gaza/ Looks like the Houthis won't stop until Israel stops. For the Houthis this has been a godsend. They were losing popularity in Yemen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 (edited) 1 minute ago, placeholder said: Looks like the Houthis won't stop until Israel stops. For the Houthis this has been a godsend. They were losing popularity in Yemen. Yep seems you like to state the obvious except Israel would stop today if the hostages were released by the terrorists Edited January 13 by Bkk Brian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 4 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said: Yep seems you like to state the obvious except Israel would stop today if the hostages were released by the terrorists Stop or pause? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawaiian Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 6 minutes ago, placeholder said: Not sure why you cited this article. It's thesis is that a proposed truce between the Saudis and the Houthis the terms of which were supported by the United States seem based on the assumption that the Saudis had the upper hand. Which was the opposite of the truth. Because it pointed out the Saudi's mistake of thinking there would be an easy victory over a bunch of ragtime group of rebels. This was explicitly mentioned in my post. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautifulthailand99 Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said: This is nothing to do with Ukraine You may have mistaken Jeremy Corbyn's magic money tree for economic reality - it's all about money in the end. If you are effectivley bust as a country you don't get to do what you want. The news that Britain's armed forces are woefully understaffed and underfunded should be no surpise to anybody and this is where we are. Russia/China must be loving this drama unfold as it threatens to pull in western forces into a regional conflict. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 Just now, beautifulthailand99 said: You may have mistaken Jeremy Corbyn's magic money tree for economic reality - it's all about money in the end. If you are effectivley bust as a country you don't get to do what you want. The news that Britain's armed forces are woefully understaffed and underfunded should be no surpise to anybody and this is where we are. Russia/China must be loving this drama unfold as it threatens to pull in western forces into a regional conflict. More off topic whataboutery US and UK hint at military action after largest Houthi attack in Red Sea 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 1 minute ago, Hawaiian said: Because it pointed out the Saudi's mistake of thinking there would be an easy victory over a bunch of ragtime group of rebels. This was explicitly mentioned in my post. And would similar reasoning apply to the situation vis a vis the current efforts? Do you believe that the Houthis can be bombed into submission? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawaiian Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 6 minutes ago, placeholder said: And would similar reasoning apply to the situation vis a vis the current efforts? Do you believe that the Houthis can be bombed into submission? One hour ago Morch replied to you with a comparison of goals and their chances for success. Suggest you go back and read it. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 1 hour ago, Hawaiian said: Not sure about the Saudi's level of military competence. Or are you being facetious? The latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 Just now, Hawaiian said: One hour ago Morch replied to you with a comparison of goals and their chances for success. Suggest you go back and read it. So this means that you agree with Morch. I'm supposed to know this how? Is he your official spokesperson? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 25 minutes ago, placeholder said: And how are they going to stop the Houthis from committing acts of terrorism? Their missiles are launched from mobile sites. "They have “little in the way of large-scale, permanent military sites,” he said, “and instead use mobile launchpads for rockets and drones in addition to networks of tunnels and caves that makes their targeting highly complicated.” The strikes Friday, Jalal said, were “surgical, largely tactical and symbolic.” He doubted they work as a deterrent." https://archive.ph/vv1KM https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/01/12/houthi-us-strike-gaza/ Mobile doesn't imply impossible, just harder. Whether the strikes, in their current form, will deter the Houthis is doubtful, but then again - what are the options? Or was there any expectation things will start off with an all out assault? These things tend to follow a course. I'm not sure what you're suggesting or what your point is. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 23 minutes ago, placeholder said: Looks like the Houthis won't stop until Israel stops. For the Houthis this has been a godsend. They were losing popularity in Yemen. That would be accepting the Houthis taking international maritime traffic and trade hostage whenever they feel like. Great precedent. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Hawaiian Posted January 13 Popular Post Share Posted January 13 (edited) 8 minutes ago, placeholder said: So this means that you agree with Morch. I'm supposed to know this how? Is he your official spokesperson? No, he is not my spokesman. I just happen to agree with him on this particular issue. Seems as if your feelings are hurt because no one,so far, has supported your position. By the way, this forum is for grownups. Edited January 13 by Hawaiian Correction 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 2 minutes ago, Morch said: Mobile doesn't imply impossible, just harder. Whether the strikes, in their current form, will deter the Houthis is doubtful, but then again - what are the options? Or was there any expectation things will start off with an all out assault? These things tend to follow a course. I'm not sure what you're suggesting or what your point is. Impossibility is a foolish standard to apply. way too difficult and costly is a better one. I doubt that the US and its current allies are up for the kind of effort it would take. Certainly the Saudis and other neighbors of Yemen wouldn't be thrilled. MbS may be a despot, but he has to be aware the the Saudi people overwhelmingly disapprove of Arab countries' ties to Israel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 4 minutes ago, Hawaiian said: No, he is not my spokesman. I just happen to agree with him on this particular issue. Seems as if your feelings are hurt because no one,so far, has supported your position. By the way, this forum is for grownups. And how was I supposed to know that? Your snarky comment about suggesting that I go back and read his comment hardly qualifies you to be a judge of who is an adult here and who isn't. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 8 minutes ago, Morch said: That would be accepting the Houthis taking international maritime traffic and trade hostage whenever they feel like. Great precedent. Well, then, what do you propose that would be an actual solution as opposed to supporting the current least bad option? What short of an invasion Israeli Gaza style even has a shot at success? 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bkk Brian Posted January 13 Popular Post Share Posted January 13 Fresh strikes just announced carried out by the US on a radar site The radar site was hit by Tomahawk missiles, the military said in a statement. It was a "follow-on action" on a specific military target associated with strikes taken on 12 January and designed to "degrade the Houthi’s ability to attack maritime vessels, including commercial vessels", the statement added. Images of one of the previous strikes: 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Morch Posted January 13 Popular Post Share Posted January 13 Just now, placeholder said: Well, then, what do you propose that would be an actual solution as opposed to supporting the current least bad option? What short of an invasion Israeli Gaza style even has a shot at success? That's one lazy arsed lame attempt at table turning. You can't address questions raised in response to your line of commentary, you do not have any better answer other than, but somehow expect others to engage in your petty games. I did not suggest that there is a magic solution. Doing nothing is not a better option. Same goes for appeasing the Houthis (even if that was possible). Sometimes there are no great options. 1 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 (edited) 38 minutes ago, placeholder said: Stop or pause? A weeks long pause for hostage/prisoner exchange, Hamas refused. Pauses are always an opportunity for further talks and further ceasefires. So what are your suggestions rather than the strikes? Edited January 13 by Bkk Brian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Morch said: That's one lazy arsed lame attempt at table turning. You can't address questions raised in response to your line of commentary, you do not have any better answer other than, but somehow expect others to engage in your petty games. I did not suggest that there is a magic solution. Doing nothing is not a better option. Same goes for appeasing the Houthis (even if that was possible). Sometimes there are no great options. Well, if what you call the least bad option actually is counterproductive, then doing nothing, as you call it, is the better option. As numerous commentators have pointed out, these attacks will only make the Houthis more popular. Neighboring countries aren't happy about these attacks for fear they could destabilize their countries. You think actions that endanger the current regimes in the region are a good idea? That it's worth the risk? And it isn't as though nothing is being done. The US and others are shooting down drones. Edited January 13 by placeholder 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 4 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said: A weeks long pause for hostage/prisoner exchange, Hamas refused. Pauses are always an opportunity for further talks and further ceasefires. So what are your suggestions rather than the strikes? I think you need reminding of what I wrote and your reply: How does Israel pausing solve the Houthi problem? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Morch Posted January 13 Popular Post Share Posted January 13 (edited) 6 minutes ago, placeholder said: Well, if what you call the least bad option actually is counterproductive, then doing nothing, as you call it, is the better option. As numerous commentators have pointed out, these attacks will only make the Houthis more popular. Neighboring countries aren't happy about these attacks for fear they could destabilize their countries. You think actions that endanger the current regimes in the region are a good idea? That it's worth the risk. And it isn't as though nothing is being done. The US and others are shooting down drones. You've got a nasty habit of dishonestly implying other posters said things which are actually injected by you into the conversation. Who said it was 'counterproductive'? You? Certainly wasn't me. Out goes your first 'argument'. Commentators are a dime a dozen, and what does the Houthis' popularity got to do with anything? Neighboring countries aren't happy about things - yes, and? How does that effect things? Are they happy with maritime traffic disruption? Again, i did not say anything about 'actions the endanger the current regimes in the region', nor do I see how they are exactly 'endangered' - and obviously, 'good idea' is your own addition. Same goes for 'worth the risk'. Shooting drones is not a solution, and obviously the USA does not see it as such either. Edited January 13 by Morch 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 4 minutes ago, placeholder said: I think you need reminding of what I wrote and your reply: How does Israel pausing solve the Houthi problem? Israel stopping, or pausing, got no bearing on the 'Houthi problem'. Even if either was on the menu, then it's a fair bet the Houthis will just do the same whenever they wish, on which ever issue. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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